DD's and AOW'S?


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AMerexican
June 3, 2010, 11:37 AM
Ok so I'm pretty familiar with all the other NFA items, but it's come to my attenetion that I don't know much about DD's or AOW's. So can anyone clear up more precisely what they are an maybe list some common (or uncommon) examples? Thanks in Advance.

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CoRoMo
June 3, 2010, 11:46 AM
My lazy copy/paste from a Wiki search:

Destructive device

A destructive device is a firearm or explosive device that, in the United States, is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Examples of destructive devices are grenades and firearms with a bore over one half of an inch, including some semi-automatic shotguns. While current federal laws allow destructive devices, some states have banned them from transfer to civilians. In states where banned, only law enforcement officers and military personnel are allowed to possess them.

All National Firearms Act firearms including destructive devices, must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, who then closely monitor use, transport, and storage of the items.

The definition of a "destructive device" is found in 26 U.S.C. 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and

(3) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term destructive device shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army, pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.[1]


Any Other Weapons (AOWs) - this is a broad "catch-all" category used to regulate any number of firearms which the ATF deems deserving of registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:

* Smooth-bore pistols

* Pen guns and cane guns

* Short-barreled firearms with both rifled and smooth bores, etc.

* Disguised firearms

* Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase

* A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip is categorized as an AOW rather than a SBS, because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…”

* Handguns with a forward vertical grip. It is therefore illegal to place an aftermarket foregrip on any pistol without first registering it as an AOW and paying the $200 "making tax" imposed by the Act.

AMerexican
June 3, 2010, 04:45 PM
How bout some examples from you guys? Pics maybe? I think I kinda get it.

Sam1911
June 3, 2010, 05:16 PM
Explosive Destructive Device

http://www.legaljuice.com/grenade.jpg

Sam1911
June 3, 2010, 05:17 PM
Large Bore Destructive Device:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_G-EWSfJ1PwE/SxPtr-P0iqI/AAAAAAAABFg/ky-27ewujug/s1600/20-mm.jpg

Sam1911
June 3, 2010, 05:19 PM
Poison Gas Destructive Device:

http://www.3dchem.com/imagesofmolecules/Sarin.jpg

Sort of ... sarin gas molecule.

Sam1911
June 3, 2010, 05:21 PM
Look in the NFA picture thread(s) here on THR for plenty of examples of AOWs.

Gord
June 3, 2010, 05:45 PM
To simplify, a DD (as I understand it) is a rifled arm firing anything bigger than a .50-caliber bullet, an explosive device, or something to facilitate the launching of an explosive device (like a grenade launcher or bazooka).

An AOW can be a lot of things, but commonly, you've got handguns with a vertical foregrip, pen guns, and "shotgun pistols" (e.g. the Serbu Super Shorty).

sv51macross
June 3, 2010, 06:23 PM
^ So poison gas is allowed as a DD? How is it registered, by the bottle? Liter? Mole? CC? Please don't tell me that each individual molecule is a DD!

RyanM
June 3, 2010, 07:51 PM
It's important to note:

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes

Making destructive device the only classification that airguns could potentially fall under. Also, "disguised firearm" type AOWs are defined as using any explosive, so BP guns aren't exempt from that one, but airguns are.

RevolvingGarbage
June 3, 2010, 11:03 PM
It's important to note:

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes

Making destructive device the only classification that airguns could potentially fall under. Also, "disguised firearm" type AOWs are defined as using any explosive, so BP guns aren't exempt from that one, but airguns are.
Forget airguns, according to the NFA ad the ATF a 40mm compressed propane powered airsoft grenade launcher is a DD when used with rocket or nerf football rounds...

Why do these asinine antique rules still exist?

RyanM
June 4, 2010, 12:51 AM
Forget airguns, according to the NFA ad the ATF a 40mm compressed propane powered airsoft grenade launcher is a DD when used with rocket or nerf football rounds...

Actually, the specific ruling on potato guns (or the one I heard, anyway) is that, when used to shoot non-weaponized projectiles, like t-shirts, potatoes, golf balls, etc., they're not destructive devices, but when used to shoot anything metal or significantly dangerous, they are.

On the other hand, you can shoot lead or iron balls out of a BP cannon or mortar, and that's not a DD.

---------

Oh, and I just noticed:

So poison gas is allowed as a DD? How is it registered, by the bottle? Liter? Mole? CC? Please don't tell me that each individual molecule is a DD!

If you re-read the definition, you may notice the (A), (B), (C), etc. things. It's mix and match. Like (A) is a bomb. That means explosive bombs, incendiary bombs, and poison gas bombs are all DDs. The registration is thus per "device," same as regular bombs. You don't have to register every molecule of TNT in those, either.

Just some quantity of explosive or poison gas doesn't constitute a destructive device, as long as you're complying with all the other laws and regulations. And I'm fairly sure that the laws on poisonous gas storage say that the valve mechanism has to be something harder to vent out than just turning a knob. Rigging something up that does let you release the gas out into a room easily probably would constitute manufacturing a destructive device.

Action_Can_Do
June 4, 2010, 05:15 AM
Am I reading the last line of the definition of destructive device correctly? Does it actually mean that a rifle used for sporting purposes isn't considered a destructive device?

Ian
June 4, 2010, 08:47 AM
Rifles that the SecTreas thinks are sporting, not anyone else. Like rifled 12ga shotguns, which are ~.72 caliber.

Quiet
June 4, 2010, 08:51 AM
Am I reading the last line of the definition of destructive device correctly? Does it actually mean that a rifle used for sporting purposes isn't considered a destructive device?

See parts in bold for answer

From the ATF NFA Handbook (ATF Publication 5320.8 April 2008) (http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/)

In addition to defining destructive devices, the definition also specifically excludes certain items from that classification. As previously stated, any shotgun or shotgun shell which the Attorney General finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes is not a destructive device. Additionally, the following items are also excluded from the definition:

• Any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon.
• Any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device.
• Surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of 10 U.S.C. 4684(2), 4685, or 4686.
• Any other device which the Attorney General finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

It should not be assumed that any device meeting the above descriptions is automatically excluded from the definition of a destructive device. ATF has ruled that certain pyrotechnic devices are destructive devices. ATF should be contacted to confirm the classification of any items that appear to meet the above exclusions. Additionally, many of the items excluded from the definition of destructive device may contain a firearm receiver and would still be a firearm as defined in the GCA.

hnl.flyboy
June 4, 2010, 07:28 PM
Any other device which the Attorney General finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

so a shotgun with a slugger barrel can't be used as a defense gun? (not asking if it would be particularly a bright idea to use, but if it can't be used)

w_houle
June 4, 2010, 07:45 PM
so a shotgun with a slugger barrel can't be used as a defense gun? (not asking if it would be particularly a bright idea to use, but if it can't be used) so a shotgun with a slugger barrel can't be used as a defense gun? (not asking if it would be particularly a bright idea to use, but if it can't be used)
Don't ask too loudly, as the SWD/Cobray Street Sweeper is a DD for merely being an ugly 12ga.

DoubleTapDrew
June 4, 2010, 08:04 PM
Is the Boys .55 cal anti-tank gun sporting? ;)

Ian
June 4, 2010, 10:27 PM
It's really an interesting question (assuming you expect ATF regs to have a rational basis) why the USAS-12 and Streetsweeper are DDs but the Saiga-12 (now with 12- and 20-round drums available) is not. It would not surprise me to see the ATF decide to relist the Saiga shotguns as DDs, though it would be very interesting to see the fallout from such a decision. It's not that uncommon for F-troop to change their minds on things - for example the Atkins Accelerator, Historic Arms belt-fed Mac-10 uppers, CZ-26 receiver sections, PSL receivers, etc.

Quiet
June 5, 2010, 02:51 AM
It's really an interesting question (assuming you expect ATF regs to have a rational basis) why the USAS-12 and Streetsweeper are DDs but the Saiga-12 (now with 12- and 20-round drums available) is not. It would not surprise me to see the ATF decide to relist the Saiga shotguns as DDs, though it would be very interesting to see the fallout from such a decision.
The key is "sporting purpose".

The Saiga-12 is imported into the USA in a sporting purpose configuration (sporter style stock and 5 round magazine).
The USAS-12 and Stryker Light-12 were not imported into the USA in a sporting configuration. Since, they had no "sporting purpose", they were ruled to be DD.

A few years back, there was some FUD going around that BATFE may reclassify the Saiga-12 as a DD, due to people modifying them into non-sporting configurations (pistol grip/folding stock) and the introduction of 10 round magazines/20 round drums. But, currently, it does not seem to be an issue as long as people comply with the 922r parts requirements.

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