non +P .45 Colt self defense ammunition?


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Tallinar
June 4, 2010, 03:07 PM
Hello everyone. I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. Let me first say that I appreciate the wealth of information I've taken from this website (usually stumbled upon by various google searches) over the last few years!

I've been doing some searching online to find .45 Colt factory-made self defense ammo that is not considered plus P (ie, one that I can be sure falls within SAAMI specs). The most popular SD .45 Colt ammo I have found online is the CorBon 200 gr JHP listed at around 1100 FPS, but the manufacturer's website lists this ammunition as plus P.

The revolver I have in .45 Colt is a Ruger New Vaquero. While I certainly don't consider it my primary home defense tool, the only handguns I own do happen to be single action revolvers; so I'd like to know what's available in the way of SD ammunition that the .45 New Vaquero could safely digest.

Thanks!

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gunnie
June 4, 2010, 03:18 PM
think your ruger wouldn't have trouble with plus P. but the 45 LC has worked well for more than a century with standard velocity ammo.

gunnie

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
June 4, 2010, 03:23 PM
Well, I have studyed long and hard on this myself. I have been loading 45 Colt
for over 50 years. Stayed a week with Elmer Keith. Well anyway bottom dollar
I carry "Buffalo Bore" standard pressure 255 gr. Keith simi wadcutter at 1000
fps. I use this in two Uberti Cattleman's. One for me, and the nickled one for
the little wifey. Both 4 3/4 barrels. I really don't know how you could beat it.

Tallinar
June 4, 2010, 03:26 PM
Thanks for the replies. I'll have to look into those Buffalo Bore standard pressure rounds. A 255 gr bullet at 1000 fps sounds like exactly the right neighborhood.

jmortimer
June 4, 2010, 03:30 PM
I have a new Vaquero and it will take +P to 20 k psi but there are a few really good standard pressure choices Speer 250 Grain Gold Dot (Check this out http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html) and Winchester 225 grain silvertip with very similar performance and Federal 225 grain SWC HP - any of these would smoke a bad guy - then there is premium ammunition that would also work but may not be more effective, i.e. the standard pressure Buffalo Bore. Normally I'm a Buffalo Bore guy but not here as any of the ones I mentioned will perform as good or better than the Buffalo Bore for much less $$$.

mothermopar
June 4, 2010, 04:39 PM
I don't even have my slimy hands on my Colt SAA yet, but I've already purchased some ammo. After much research and personal experiences, I went with the following loads:

Outdoor defense (critters): Buffalo Bore 255 gr. @ 1000fps.
Home defense (two legged varmints): Speer Gold Dot 250 gr. @ about 800fps.

In all honesty, even the cowboy loads would do the job against the two legged interlopers... they've been doing the job for over a century.

jmortimer
June 4, 2010, 04:45 PM
A 250 grain "cowboy load"- round flat point - would shoot through a bad guy and leave a big hole. Cowboy ammunition would work real good. The 250 Gold Dot looks like a winner and the picture in the link above says it all.

BCCL
June 4, 2010, 04:47 PM
Winchester Silvertips.

Tallinar
June 4, 2010, 08:32 PM
Thanks for the input fellas!

Buck Snort
June 4, 2010, 09:45 PM
For a real long time a 250 gr. .45 slug lumbering along at 650-750 fps was considered good cause for a perp to crumple to the ground and give up the fight. Today, however, the criminals are a lot tougher (better diet I s'pose) and that same bullet needs a velocity of 1000 fps or more to get the job done. Same with with .38 caliber bullets. In the old days a 158 gr. bullet launched at 900 fps. would put'm down but today that same bullet needs about 1200 fps or the bad guys just swat'm away and keep on come'n. Seems like a doggone shame to me.

2popfire
June 4, 2010, 11:26 PM
+ 1 on those Winchester SilverTips if they won't do it... Run!!

ArchAngelCD
June 5, 2010, 01:45 AM
I agree, the 225gr Winchester Silvertip (http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/super-x/silvertip-hollow-point/Pages/X45CSHP2.aspx) ammo Part #X45CSHP2 is standard pressure. So is the 225gr Winchester PDX1 (http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/supreme-elite/bonded-pdx1/Pages/S45CPDB.aspx) Bonded ammo Part #S45CPDB. Both will do a very good job at SD...

The Lone Haranguer
June 5, 2010, 06:08 AM
Surely there are any number of standard pressure loads in a hollowpoint configuration. :confused:

CraigC
June 5, 2010, 09:06 AM
think your ruger wouldn't have trouble with plus P.
You would be wrong about that. The New Vaquero is strong to about 20-22,000psi. We have to be careful with the designation "+P". While there is no official SAAMI designation or pressure standard for .45Colt +P, what is widely considered "+P" are "Ruger only" loads that approach 32,000psi. Absolutely not appropriate for the New Vaquero or Colt SAA.

Tallinar
June 5, 2010, 09:47 AM
Surely there are any number of standard pressure loads in a hollowpoint configuration.

This would certainly be my hope. However, due to the modern tendency to pump .45 Colt up beyond pressures where there's no SAAMI guidelines (even SD rounds), I just wanted to hear about some that were "confirmed" to be standard pressure loads.

Thanks again guys.

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2010, 12:18 PM
200 gr JHP listed at around 1100 FPS

That's really not a hot load. I use ft/lbs of energy to kinda gauge how hot a load is in a given chambering. The cor-bon load generates 540 FPE. My defense load in my Stampede is a 250 gr. Gold Dot at 1,080, which calculates 650 FPE and is still fairly low pressure (cases almost fall out), though snappy in a lightweight SAA replica.

Home defense (two legged varmints): Speer Gold Dot 250 gr. @ about 800fps

That's a bit slow for a heavy JHP like the 250 gr. GD to expand reliably. At those speeds, I'd be running a lead HP.

BCRider
June 5, 2010, 04:53 PM
Buck Snort, that was my thinking too. But sadly, I think your sarcasm with its underlying truth has been lost in the wind already.

Meanwhile no one has any worry at all about a 230gn .45ACP traveling at "only" 800 to 850 fps getting the job done. So you'd think that we should be fine with the same weight or slightly heavier bullet from a "cowboy" revolver.

For 250gn JHP bullets out of .45Colt cases I'm seeing numbers that say 775 fps and 13,700CUP for pressure as a max load. For a 230gn cast round flat nose you can get 800'ish fps for around 10,000 to 10,500 CUP using Clays powder. And that's just over the recomended starting load. It runs up to 857 and 13,400 CUP for a max load.

These numbers being taken from my 49th edition Lyman book.

takhtakaal
June 5, 2010, 04:59 PM
FWIW and to add to the signal side of the ratio, I run both Silvertips and the Buffalo Bore Keith load in a S&W 25-5. It's plenty for non-target purposes, so long as you aren't taking on a grizzly bear on PCP.

jmortimer
June 5, 2010, 10:08 PM
The 250 grain Gold Dot will fully expand at velocities less than 800 fps for a fact -
http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2010, 11:24 PM
The 250 grain Gold Dot will fully expand at velocities less than 800 fps for a fact -
http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html

It did in that instance, which kinda surprises me.

However, I don't know that I'd state with such authority that it will reliably expand based on a single bullet fired into a gel block, for which the calibration is not stated.

Moot point to me, anyway, since I run them well over 1,000.

jmortimer
June 5, 2010, 11:32 PM
One could only hope that the Speer Ballistics Laboratory would know what they are doing as it relates to ballistic gelatin testing and that Speer would know how to properly load their .45 Colt 250 grain Gold Dot ammunition.

MachIVshooter
June 5, 2010, 11:36 PM
One could only hope that the Speer Ballistics Laboratory would know what they are doing as it relates to ballistic gelatin testing and that Speer would know how to properly load their .45 Colt 250 grain Gold Dot.

One would certainly hope so.

But it would take quite a long list to enumerate all of the factory ammo from big name manufacturers that did not perform that well in the real world. I've recovered alot of HP's in the phone book backstop to my ballistic clay that might as well have been FMJ's.

w_houle
June 6, 2010, 12:00 AM
If I had to go with a non +P loading for .45 Colt? I would have to go with the Remington Green/Yellow in 225gr LSWC
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/66102

StrawHat
June 6, 2010, 11:10 AM
Elmer Keith wrote that if limited to factory ammo in a revovler he would choose the 45 long Colt and factory loads. Back then that meant the 250 or 255 grain RNFP lead bullet loaded to black powder velocities. After he died his revolvers were unloaded and among all the 44 Magnums was found his Colt Model P loaded with factory 45 long Colts.

Myself, I would prefer a 255 grain SWC at about 900 fps. This is what I load and carry in various single action and double action revolvers chambered for the long Colt. +/- 8.5 grains of Unique get me there. The closest I can find is the 45 Colt ammo from Remington.

tango2echo
June 6, 2010, 12:47 PM
I've loaded the MBC 250gr RNFP over 8.5gr of Unique. Not exactly scientific, but I've fired them into a plastic wash tub full of wet phone books. Everyone penatrated atleast 12". Only 3 of 15 stopped in the tub. The rest were T-A-T. I'm pretty new to the .45LC, but I would have no problem using that load for SD.

t2e

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