I Want To Put A Pistol Grip On My HD Shotgun....

.....very temporarily! :D

A work colleague has a birthday coming up, and he wants his wife to buy him a shotgun for HD.

Despite lengthy explanations from me as to why he shouldn't, he wants to get a pistol grip only pump.
He's not a mall ninja, he just thinks that the more compact weapon that a pistol grip provides will be an advantage in the confines of his apartment.

I've offered to take him out shooting with my Maverick 88 to give him a feel for a shotgun (he's completely new to shooting) but mine has a full stock.

I thought it might be a good idea to get hold of a pistol grip, bolt it on to my shotgun, let him shoot it, and thus instantly persuade him that he needs a stock.

I seem to remember pistol grips being around $10, but having just looked around for one, I can't seem to find any for under $20. I don't want to spend even that on a pistol grip that will get used for a matter of minutes, I'd rather buy ammo.

Anyone know an inexpensive source? Quality is pretty much unimportant.

have him shoot it from the hip without using the stock, and throw some 3" slugs in it :)

I thought of that, but he's convinced that the different grip angle of the dedicated pistol grips will make the comparison unrealistic.

I personally think that the way the pistol grips are designed (with the recoil directed into the web of the hand) would actually be a lot worse, but who am I to argue? :uhoh:

I could almost see how a 'bird's head' style pistol grip would be ok to shoot, kinda like a BP pistol, but the more common 'saw handle' types look painful to me.

Pistol grips don't hurt to shoot and you can even do some fast and accurate shooting with them, but space considerations or not I don't know why anybody would bother with one when it comes to SD when you can just as easily put a folding stock on there.

I thought of that, but he's convinced that the different grip angle of the dedicated pistol grips will make the comparison unrealistic

Yes, but he is the one who is going to have a HD shotgun with the pistol grip on it. Where does comparison come into the picture?

If he feels the extra felt recoil and perhaps lack of control in a side by side comparison would not be realistic, whats it gonna be like at dark-thirty next Saturday night?

But, then again, it's his nose in the mousetrap, not mine.

You could have HIM buy the pistol grip (he will probably need to anyway - full stock guns are easier to find), and put it on your gun to try it out

If you were close I'd lend you the one that came with my Mossberg. I think I still know where it is.

It isn't going to hurt to shoot. That shouldn't be a consideration. It isn't going to be uncontrollable, either.

It is, however, going to be markedly slower to get onto target and/or less accurate than a conventional buttstock.

Some people (perhaps your friend) think that a shotgun produces enough pattern spread to make up for inaccuracy.

Two points may sway their (or his) minds:

1) at home-defense distances the spread of a decent buckshot load is too small to be an "area weapon." To be effective the pattern must be centered pretty close to the bad guy's center of mass. Miss by just a little and you might land only one or two (small, light) pellets in an arm or fatty tissue -- doing little to stop the threat.

2) If you DO favor your chances of stopping a threat with only a few pellets on the periphery of your cloud of shot, remember that the REST of that load (7+ pellets) will still be flying, uninterrupted, through your home. We tend to think only of the damage done by the pellets that HIT -- which in a hunting case may be the important part -- but if you think of it as discharging MOST of a load of buckshot into/through your walls, belongings, and/or other things you care about which live in your home, you're going to want the MOST control and accuracy you can possibly get.

Disregarding the control problems when shooting one.

Convince him it is way easier to take a pistol grip shotgun away from him in a gun grab if the perp gets hold of the barrel.

A stock locked under your arm makes disarming you very very difficult to do.

And you also have the option of the old horizontal or vertical butt stroke to the jaw bone that does wonders to end a wrestling match over a gun!

rc

Well, I don't want him to try shooting from the hip with a full stock, find it difficult to control, but then attribute that difficulty to using a full stock instead of a proper pistol grip.
He needs to try a dedicated pistol grip and discover for himself what the disadvantages are.

I'm not totally against pistol grips.
I expect that, given a good deal of proper training and practise you could become very proficient with one.
The problem is, I (and I suspect most other people) will never put in the work required, when a normal stock is better for most purposes.
I certainly wouldn't recommend a pistol gripped shotgun as a first firearm for someone, and that's why I'm hoping to steer my friend towards a standard full stock.

Folding stocks have their place too, but it's just one more thing for an absolute beginner to learn. I think he'd be better off spending his time learning reloading drills etc to begin with.
A folding stock requires an extra step in the manual of arms, and I'd go as far as to say that it's almost like having two different weapons to learn if the user ever wants to use it with the stock folded.
If you're always going to unfold the stock before using it, why have a folder in the first place?

buy a pistol grip with the hd weapon in mind its a 20 dollar extra to the investment. keep it on or not its fun to have on hand

You guys saying it doesn't hurt to shoot... mine sure did. I shot some express buckshot through my 590 and promptly put the buttstock back on. My thumb still hurts 6 years later. :D

jamesbeat,

You really should read Dave McCracken's great, encyclopedic, post on the reality of PGO shooting. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=44465

You'll never find another text on the matter which is more thoroughly tested, practiced, explained, and authoritative.

The stock Mossberg pistol grip definitely hurts me to shoot. A Pachmayr Presentation grip eliminates all the pain on anything up to full power 2-3/4" slugs.

If you're always going to unfold the stock before using it, why have a folder in the first place?

Storage space.

Anyway, if you post a vague location, there may be a highroader or two who are willing to hit the range with you, and let your friend try out whatever they've got. I have a Serbu Super Shorty, if you're in the Pittsburgh area. That one tends to quickly convince people that very short shotguns are both more effective and more impractical than they're given credit for.

IMO, one of the main reasons that PGOs seem attractive to newer shooters, besides making for a handier overall length, is that they have handled a full stocked gun and found the LOP to be awkwardly long.

However, a short stock like the Hogue 12"er cuts down noticably on the OAL, solves the LOP problem and it can be pointed out that a gun fitted with one doesn't really extend any further from the shooter's body than a PGO gun.

If your near the upstate of SC I got a couple laying around you can try out that will work on your shotgun.

Otherwise I got one for 20 bucks from dpharms.com Good luck finding a cheaper one.

You don't shoot a pistol grip shotgun "from the hip".

You mount it as you would a handgun in retention position - thumb nestled beneath the pectorial muscle on the side of the ribcage with the elbow straight back, and your body bladed about 45-degrees to the target. You flex your knees and hips (naturally) to traverse the muzzle.

The only time I had pistol grips (unless AOW) on any of my shotguns were for legal conconcealed carry. My state finally saw the light a few years ago and started issuing concealed handgun licenses.

He needs to try a dedicated pistol grip and discover for himself what the disadvantages are.

Exactly right. The HD shotgun is very easy to control with a pistol grip AND a folding stock. But that's something the shooter needs to learn through comparing PGO against PGO+stock. I took the High Road Challenge and compared shooting my Mossberg both ways. Once I tried it with a shoulder stock on, it was immediately clear that both comfort and accuracy were hugely improved, with zero downside to HD. Plus, if speed is an issue, it fires just fine PGO with the stock folded.

Only had to shoot a pistol grip 12 gauge once to determine that it's not for me.

I converted my Benelli M1Super90 from a PG full length stock to a conventional stock. PG get's in the way with reloading for me, and I can control the weapon just fine. I have been shooting a shotgun for over 40 years, so I have "procedures" that I use when shotgunning.

That being said, each to his own. He should try one to see if he really likes it or not.

I just find it ridiculous that someone who has never shot is going to be so inflexible about trying a shotgun with a stock. Nothing like an expert who is new to the game.

Let your buddy be his own man and learn for himself which he prefers. I've had this shotgun in three different configurations... OEM wooden stock (which I liked just fine), this set up (which I liked a LOT for it's intended purpose... crawling on my belly while doing a building entry/search. It functioned quite adequately for "other" uses too, once I learned how to use it for such... it sure didn't end the world for everyone else), and in it's current configuration, which is with a Knoxx SpecOps collapsable stock/pistol grip combo. BTW... in the configuration pic'd below... I've fired it "one-handed" with 3" magnum solid slugs, twice in a row. Ok, it stung a little bit, but it sure didn't change my ability to shoot. Would I choose to shoot it like that all the time? No, but, I understand what it feels like to do so.

http://vrcc.photostash.com/vrcc_11930/Winchester1200%20(Small).JPG

Once he buys his gun, teach him how to use it with the stock... let him work through it with the pistol grip. It's his money, let him learn for himself what works best for him.

IMO, one of the main reasons that PGOs seem attractive to newer shooters, besides making for a handier overall length,

or they have been playing too many video games...............................

A PGO attached to my Maverick 88 is how I came to be known as "Rocky Raccoon" for a couple of weeks amongst my "Shooting Budds".

Short version...had attached Pistol Grip Only for experimental purposes. #8 field/target loads were OK, and acutally managed to hit some stuff. Then loaded up some Heavy Duty buckshot loads...3" #4 Buck...Budd tossed one of those dangerous 'Clays', and i swung up the shotgun & fired...

"OOWWWW!! QUIT IT!" Severely Mooshed (but not broken) nose, fat lips, and the matched pair of "Dotted Eyes".

PGO on MY shotgun? Not Now....Not EVER!

Just have him buy the PG shotgun, then take him shooting. Shoot IDPA targets at home defense ranges (7-20 feet) and let him shoot yours side by side with his. He'll probably decide to get a regular sock for it after that.

knoxx spec ops stock

I put the Knoxx (now Blackhawk) Breacher's Grip on my Mossberg. It's about $90 and has a spring that reduces the recoil at the wrist.
I happen to like mine, shoot from the waist, and I could shoot it all day without a sore wrist.
I like the short form factor too.

The best shotgun pistol grip in my opinion is the Hogue Tamer which came with the pistol grip and the rubber fore end for $20.

I have one on my Remington 870 and my Mossberg 500 - haven't been hurt yet.

thats a good point just let him buy a shorty full stock shotgun then 20 bucks more throw a pistol grip on it then let him make his opinion.

I will admit a pistol grip on a SG looks cool. But personally I couldn't give a rats rear end about looking cool. I prefer a full stock SG because when firing it, it's easier to become one with the gun. Aiming is a breeze and control, yes part of aiming, is much more attainable especially in a rapid fire situation.
Besides a full stocked SG itself makes a handy weapon even without any slugs left to fire. When used correctly you can put quite a thumping on an intruder and use it as a weapon for self defense in a pinch.
I like a full stock, wood please but if not available plastic (synthetic) will suffice.

For the most part, a full stock is the better choice. But there are a few circumstances where I prefer a PGO shotgun. But NOT with the typical pistol grip which is angled much as a true pistol grip would be angled. That's a bad angle for the wrist to work a shotgun, especially as the gun is moved lower from line of sight.

The best pistol grip I know of is the Speedfeed "Birdshead" grip which is shaped just like the shape of the neck on a standard butt stock... not down toward the ground, but back at a gentle angle. You hold this just as you would a regular full stock, but there's no stock extension back behind your wrist. Imagine a regular shotgun stock with the back cut off just behind the "neck".... that's the shape of a birdshead grip.

Shooting from the hip may look rambo, but it's about the worst choice for hitting well. With the Speedfeed and the gun held at high chest level, about four or five inches below your line of sight it is possible to shoot quite well and quite comfortably.

For those times when you must have a really short shotgun, this is the approach which I would recommend. I have one shotgun (Winchester 1300 Defender w/18.5" barrel and 8-shot capacity) permanently set-up with the Speedfeed Birdshead grip and it's a real nice short shotgun to have handy, along with my full-stocked shotguns.