concealed gun greying


PDA






gungin
June 5, 2010, 05:48 PM
I have a conceal carry compact 1911 that I wear on a fairly regular basis. I have only had it for 4 months but I notice it is greying. Its a black firearm and I was wondering if there are ways to prevent this from happening. I use FP-10 to clean my gun and a silicone cloth to wipe it down afterwards. I've only owned guns for a year and half so I'm still learning.

Thanks for the help guys.

If you enjoyed reading about "concealed gun greying" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BBQLS1
June 5, 2010, 05:55 PM
If you use a firearm, it's going to look used. It gives it character.

Providing a finish or picture might help.

KodiakBeer
June 5, 2010, 05:57 PM
Is it greying where it comes in contact with the holster or all over? Those cheap plastic holsters (kydex?) are hell on gun finishes.

gungin
June 5, 2010, 06:14 PM
I've tried taking a picture but it doesnt show up very well. And I do not mind the gun looking used or having character, more concerned with making sure I am properly caring for my gun.

I do use a kydex as the holster, which might be my problem. The greying seems to be just on the slide. Both sides, the side thats in contact with the holster and the exposed side.

Maybe I need to invest in a better holster? I wouldn't be the silicone cloth or any other possible cleaning agents doing this, I have used other cleaning agents besides the FP-10 in the past.

KodiakBeer
June 5, 2010, 06:46 PM
Yeah, get rid of the plastic holster and get a leather one.

I've never had a problem with any cleaning agent. It's the plastic holster.

Mags
June 5, 2010, 06:52 PM
Simple rule:
Leather holsters for metal guns.
Plastic holster are ok for plastic guns.

AK103K
June 5, 2010, 07:15 PM
Its been my experience that leather is what causes more "overall" wear to a guns finish than kydex, which usually only wears the finish at the contact points.

Leather tends to be in more contact with the guns finish than kydex. Leather also tends to hold or embed dirt and abrasives in the leather, where kydex does not. The other issue with leather is moisture, another issue kydex doesnt have.

Regardless what holster you use, they all will wear a handguns finish over time, and your gun will also start to get beat up from day to day run ins with everything and anything. Its just inevitable and the way life is. If thats an issue, you should find another gun to carry that youre not as worried about.

KodiakBeer
June 5, 2010, 07:49 PM
I've got an 1896 Webley and a 1918 Remington little to no discernible holster wear. I've carried a Kimber in leather for 13 years with no holster wear on the finish. Any dings or blemishes are due to hard usage, not from the holster.

"Kydex" and "Polymer" are just other words for hard plastic, and used by the manufacturer to get you to pay twenty nine bucks for their two dollar item. Hard things (plastic or otherwise) will scratch the finish, while soft things won't. Moisture isn't an issue. If your holster is wet (leather or otherwise), dry it out. Wipe your gun down every evening.

230therapy
June 5, 2010, 08:09 PM
It should look like this:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/Naciones73/TRS%20Jan%2010/TRSRTimer.jpg

If it does not look like this, then you are not fully utilizing your gun and training your skills. It's a gun for fighting, not an "investment". "Investments" belong in the safe.

There is no rust visible on this gun. Simply wipe it down periodically. If it gets wet or you see sweat on it at the end of the day, then you'll need to wipe the sweat away and replace with a bit of oil or grease. I clean mine at least every thirty days of carry. I also do a lint check...too much lint means it gets cleaned.

Here's the full set of photos:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2495105&postcount=52

230therapy
June 5, 2010, 08:20 PM
It keeps getting dirtier:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/Naciones73/TRS%20May%2010/TRS5.jpg

230therapy
June 5, 2010, 08:28 PM
More fun:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=2181304&postcount=17

I like this one:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/cxl17/qyd1ue.jpg

and there's some gray on this one:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn216/cxl17/2yl34li.jpg

AK103K
June 5, 2010, 09:04 PM
Moisture isn't an issue. If your holster is wet (leather or otherwise), dry it out. Wipe your gun down every evening.
I see you must not sweat much, and/or dont live and carry in a warm, moist environment. Moisture is a very BIG issue for those of us who do. I dont know how you "dry" your holsters out, but they dont dry out overnight by themselves, and most of the time, they dont dry out at all, even when used in rotation, as I used to do. In about 25 years of using leather holsters daily, I never made it through a summer without rust being an issue that required constant attention, and some to the point of having pits polished out and guns refinished every couple of years. Hard chrome and kydex stopped most of that.

I used to go through two to three good, brand name leather holsters each year. Summer was always the hardest on them, and my guns, and once they were wet, they usually stayed wet until the weather broke. On average, it was costing me about $150 a year in holsters. My first Blade Tech was used daily, for over 10 years, and cost me about $50. While it was retired about 10 years ago now, I still have it, and its still as serviceable as the first time I put it on.

This is the Colt Commander that was in it for those 10+ years. It started out as a nice, deep, Colt blue, and lasted almost a year in that finish in a couple of Galco Royal Guards. The first hot summer month, its slide, and along and under the grips, were rusted heavy enough to require the services of a gunsmith to correct it. The finish on the rest of the gun that wasnt rusted, was already getting that washed out look you often see with guns that get a lot of use in leather holsters. At that point, I had it hard chromed and picked up my first Blade Tech IWB. The gun was carried daily and shot (from that holster) weekly for the next 10+ years. The black streaks you see on the gun are actually polished chrome, from contact with the holster. Thats ALL the wear (over 10+ years), and if you look, some small dusting of surface rust around the grips (safety side) where the holster didnt cover the gun. Other than that, the rest of the finish pretty much looks as it did the first day I got it back from being hard chromed.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27fcb0159fe00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27ecd1479a400000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


Same gun and the holster (on right). The holster on left was a new, unused back up.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f4567d8ef00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This is the last Royal Guard I used before switching. Its got about a month of use on it. The tape was a feeble attempt at stopping/slowing the sweat from soaking through the leather. it didnt work.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f35e7d85700000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f64f598f500000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I know we dont all have the same lifestyle, and our use may be very different, but if you have an active lifestyle, and work, live, and play in a harsh environment, kydex is by far, is the better material if you want your gun (as well as your body) to be protected. Those few streaks of wear on the gun are NOTHING, compared to what it looked like (due to riding in a leather holster) just before it was refinished. I've since carried a number of SIG's, including older, blued guns, pretty much exclusively in Blade Tech holsters, and not a spec of rust, and very little holster wear on any of them.

bigfatdave
June 5, 2010, 09:20 PM
Those cheap plastic holsters (kydex?) are hell on gun finishes.

"Kydex" and "Polymer" are just other words for hard plastic

You're mistaking Kydex (which is a thermoplastic) for injection-molded junk (like a lot of the Fobus line).

Try doing the stuff that you can do with Kydex with leather or injection-molded plastic and NOT adding lots of labor, bulk, or weight. Add in that the stuff is fairly cheap and I just don't get the hostility towards it ... Kydex is great stuff for any kind of custom-molded job requiring a tight fit and conformity to odd shapes. And for the record, the side of the guns that live in Kydex/leather hybrid holsters that wears most is ... ... THE LEATHER SIDE.
I suspect your antiques with little wear are carried in loose OWB/shoulder holsters, KodiakBeer? Perhaps their wear is due to little abrasion, not the material they're sitting in.

230therapy
June 6, 2010, 01:09 AM
Love that Royal Guard...looks like it's just starting to get comfy :)

Deus Machina
June 6, 2010, 05:04 AM
Plastic will wear a finish quicker than leather, and cheap plastic faster than kydex.

I'm not a fan of plastic holsters, anyway, especially on proper metal guns. They don't blank out the shape, and just feel... lifeless. Metal guns, 1911's in particular, seem to develop a personality or 'soul' of their own, over time.

If you use leather, spray the inside with dry silicone lubricant. It will help is smooth out, and keep it slick.

Another question--what finish is it?
If it's matte blued, it's wearing in and smoothing.
If it's gloss or brushed blued, it's just wearing into the top layer. Perfectly normal.
If it's stainless, it's wearing or oxidizing (some stainless still does, to no ill effects).
If it's parkerized, the finish has lost its oil--wipe it down with some light gun oil and let it sit wet overnight. It will retain some of that and darken back up.

The Bushmaster
June 6, 2010, 08:58 AM
AK103K...Next time try a horse hide holster...I live in a humid clime and carry almost 24/7 (I have to sleep sometime).

AK103K
June 6, 2010, 09:17 AM
I believe the Royal Guards are horsehide. Unfortunately, also in the worst configuration, "rough out", which just soaks up moisture like a sponge. Regarless what leather it is, it still cant beat kydex for protection of both your gun and your body.

230therapy, it was pretty comfy. Unfortunately, what youre looking at there, is a month old holster that already has that years old, worn in look.

KodiakBeer
June 6, 2010, 01:58 PM
I see you must not sweat much, and/or dont live and carry in a warm, moist environment.

We have two seasons - the rainy season and July. If you wear a leather holster, the trick is saddle soap it once in a while to remove any dirt or salts due to sweat, followed by mink oil. That keeps the leather more or less impermeable.

KodiakBeer
June 6, 2010, 02:01 PM
You're mistaking Kydex (which is a thermoplastic) for injection-molded junk (like a lot of the Fobus line).

It's all injection molded plastic, thermo or not. It doesn't make sense to spend all that money on a gun and then stick it in a cheap plastic holster that wears the finish off. A carry gun gets plenty of normal wear and tear without adding to the problem.

DFW1911
June 6, 2010, 02:09 PM
If it does not look like this, then you are not fully utilizing your gun and training your skills. :confused:

There is no possible way this statement can be substantiated.

With respect, the condition of a gun is not an indication of the shooter's practice, prowess, or abilities.

JMHO; YMMV.

General Geoff
June 6, 2010, 02:16 PM
With respect, the condition of a gun is not an indication of the shooter's practice, prowess, or abilities.

Not necessarily, but it often is.

Caliper_RWVA
June 6, 2010, 02:26 PM
This is why I insisted on getting my PF9 in a parkerized or hard chrome finish. At this point in time I just wanted something that I didn't really have to worry about the finish on.

Those worn-in 1911's look great though. You guys remind me that I need to visit the range more!

AK103K
June 6, 2010, 02:27 PM
If you wear a leather holster, the trick is saddle soap it once in a while to remove any dirt or salts due to sweat, followed by mink oil. That keeps the leather more or less impermeable.
Like I said, you must not sweat much or get your holster actually "wet", through and through, like some of us do. I've tried Sno Seal, mink Oil, and just about any of the other leather waterproofing sealers at one time or another over the years, with no luck. Most of that type stuff doesnt work on boots either, and just like with boots, its usually very short lived on anything that actually gets wet. The one guarantee is, leather is NOT impermeable. A Goretex liner, or something similar would be a better option.

As far as saddle soap goes, I've never been able to understand exactly what it really does. At least, its never worked for me, and I seriously doubt its going to remove any embedded dirt from leather, and if anything, just rub it in more. Thats also assuming you might even be able to reach it inside the holster in the first place.

It's all injection molded plastic, thermo or not. It doesn't make sense to spend all that money on a gun and then stick it in a cheap plastic holster that wears the finish off. A carry gun gets plenty of normal wear and tear without adding to the problem.
The kydex holsters and sheaths I own were not injection molded. Even the couple of "plastic" holsters I do own that appear to be, dont wear the finish on my guns like leather does/did, and only show wear at specific contact points, instead of overall. Leather definitely shows more wear in that respect, and more of the finish is affected.

KodiakBeer
June 6, 2010, 02:30 PM
Leather definitely shows more wear in that respect, and more of the finish is affected.

My 100 year old firearms would differ with you.

AK103K
June 6, 2010, 02:33 PM
This is why I insisted on getting my PF9 in a parkerized or hard chrome finish. At this point in time I just wanted something that I didn't really have to worry about the finish on.
Hard chrome, or something similar, is your best bet. Park isnt much better than blue for rust prevention, and can actually look a lot nastier than blue as it wears.

AK103K
June 6, 2010, 02:47 PM
My 100 year old firearms would differ with you.
I see we are not talking about the same thing here.

I've had 100 year old guns that didnt look to bad too. Then again, they didnt spend their life in a wet, leather holster either, like some have.

I've seen German and Japanese war trophies, with their original leather holsters, that were nothing but heavily pitted rust buckets, so your experience seems to be with guns that were not very heavily used, in poor conditions. Once your gun does start to rust, even with daily, or a couple of times daily wipe downs, you wont stop the rust, and it will only accelerate once its taken hold. I know this for a fact, as I've had it happen to me.

If you like leather, and are having good results with it, by all means, use a leather holster. I have a couple of nice leather holsters myself too, although they dont get a lot of use, especially this time of year. In the day to day world I live, work, and play in, they dont work very well for me at all, and I have much better results with kydex, and guns that have more rust resistant finishes. The small amount of wear the kydex might cause is nothing, and rust is virtually non existent with them too. Overall, other than those couple of wear points, the rest of the finish usually looks new, something you usually dont get with a leather holster over time.

owsi26
June 6, 2010, 02:55 PM
I've got a Colt Commander LW .45 that I bought new in the early 1970's. I bought a Bianchi tan leather thumb snap holster for it and it has never been into another holster. I carried it for years and I fired thousands of rounds through it.

The holster has many scratches (character) on it. I did use olive oil on the outside of it as I wanted a darker holster than the light tan that it came in. It made it look great. I had used this before on a weight lifting belt.
I never treated the inside of the holster.

That pistol looks absolutely brand new. Galco is another leather
maker that I've bought a number of their holsters. They were all great. I hadn't bought a Galco holster in years.

I bought a Walther PPS and I ordered a Galco holster for it. The inside of the
holster felt very abrasive. I trusted Galco so I put the PPS in it. After four insertions, my PPS had lost a lot of it's nice finish!

I bought a Ruger SR9c and even though it was bigger, I found it would fit in the PPS holster. Even with a tighter fit, there is no visible wear on the Ruger. It may be because it has a stainless steel slide, that there is no wear.

Or it could be that the holster has been broken in. But, I suspect it is because my PPS has a poor finish as it will show light fingernail contact and it is
permanent although that area is not part of the slide.

I know the holster is too abrasive as I have about 20 leather holsters. Galco will be getting an e-mail from me.

Maybe you should switch to a good leather holster. Bianchi may have changed too, but if you want to take a look at the one that has lasted so long, it is now called a "58L Hip Hugger Holster.". I also carried a much heavier Paraordinance
P14-45 for many years in this same holster and other 1911's.

bigfatdave
June 6, 2010, 03:47 PM
It's all injection molded plasticNo, not really.
I suggest you look up what Kydex is and how it is formed before lumping it in with rigid Fobus-style gear.

KodiakBeer
June 6, 2010, 03:55 PM
I've seen German and Japanese war trophies, with their original leather holsters, that were nothing but heavily pitted rust buckets, so your experience seems to be with guns that were not very heavily used, in poor conditions.

I would guess that's the result of lying in a holster in somebodies attic for 50 years, not from the actual use of the sidearm in its original leather holster. If you store a gun long term in leather, it will tend to draw the oil off the gun and leave it open to rust. That's not an issue with a gun that's actually being used regularly.

AK103K
June 6, 2010, 04:18 PM
The guns I saw that were in that condition were brought back that way ( I knew the people who brought them back), and were not the result of being stored improperly (at least by them), holster or otherwise.

If lying in a dry, fairly controlled environment, I dont think keeping a gun in a leather holster would be much of an issue. Its the constant wetness, especially when sweat is involved, thats the issue.

If you enjoyed reading about "concealed gun greying" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!