[Oyeboten]

I have heard conflicting mentions or asides over the years on whether the original Colt Model 1911 .45 Automatics were a Cast Frame, or, a Forging.


Can anyone enlighten me on this?

[medalguy]

They were not cast in 1911 or any time soon after. They were either forged or fully machined.

[Old Fuff]

Neither Colt, the U.S. Armory at Springfield, MA, or any subsequent government contractor ever made a 1911 or 1911A1 pistol with anything but a forged frame and slide. This is still true of Colt today.

That said, I don't believe this fact is important because modern investment cast parts made of similar steel alloys and heat treated have held up just as well. What in both cases is important is how well made the finished part is, and that it is dimentionally correct and "to print." Some aren't.

[Oyeboten]

Okay...


Thanks medalguy..!

Thanks Old Fuff..!



I kinda thought I remembered seeing faint endemic 'wavy' or 'curved' lines, which followed the shape of the Frame's form sort of 'bends', showing in old Weathered Loss-of-Blue examples, which would suggest a 'Forging' that had of course then been Machined.

[tipoc]

I can't be sure what you saw but all 1911s made by Colt are and have been made from forgeings.

There have been companies over the years that have and do used cast frames. Essex used to use some, Caspian, The modern Springfield has had it's frames cast in Brazil, etc.

tipoc

[Drail]

Springfield's frames are not cast, they are forgings from IMBEL in Brazil.

[Tallinar]

Correct, Springfield uses forged frames.

With modern metalurgy, I wouldn't be too quick to shy away from cast frames/slides though. Caspian has been known to make quality cast frames and slides for a good while now.

I'd be more concerned about manufacturers who use metal injection molding for too many of the key internal parts. That's just preference though.

In the end, like anything else, you really do get what you pay for.

[earlthegoat2]

It is said by some that the cast frames of BHPs are of superior performance than the forged frames of the past. Just more evidence in favor of cast frames on modern 1911s. Im not too worried about a cast frame.

[1911Tuner]

Modern, good quality cast frames that are dimensionally within spec...not a problem. Slides? Not such a good idea. The slide takes the majority of the pounding.

[Sniper X]

Why would a 1918 Colt 1911 have a Ithaca slide on it?

And a gold set of furniture?

[Jim K]

Hi, Sniper X,

Because someone wanted to "purty" up his gun and didn't care about matching parts.

--

As to cast vs forged, modern cast frames are probably as good or close to as good as forged frames, but they certainly are no better. Most metallurgists agree that forging toughens the steel and that a forged part is roughly twice as strong as a part cast from the same steel alloy. But the 1911 was designed with so much overkill in the strength area that using good quality cast steel or even (for frames) cast aluminum alloy, is OK, at least for any reasonable amount of shooting.

Jim

[SlamFire1]

Others who have access to WW1 era M1911's have stated the parts were not heat treated.

They are also made of plain carbon steels.

Regardless of fabrication method, not heating steel leaves it soft.