45lc/410


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youngun38
June 7, 2010, 09:52 PM
okay everyone knows that you can shoot a 45lc from a 410 or a 410 from a 45lc as long as the chamber will take it but here what i have to ask. can i shoot a 45lc from a 410 break action single with a 3"chamber or will it give problems? and if i can then what kind of accuracy can i expect out of it with a smooth bore barrell?

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Jim Watson
June 7, 2010, 09:53 PM
Cram a .452" bullet down a .410" barrel and into a choke?
No.

Zanad
June 7, 2010, 09:55 PM
As I recall, you cannot chamber, or rather SHOULD not chamber a pistol round into a shotgun because of chamber pressure.


That said, if you do ever try to do this, please youtube what happens.

Shadow 7D
June 7, 2010, 10:05 PM
Check out the SAMMI specs, should give you the pressure of a .410

you probably could load a round down to the right range, and use a rifle powder so to maximize the longer barrel, also you could use a slug barrel on the shotgun.

highorder
June 7, 2010, 11:43 PM
you probably could load a round down to the right range, and use a rifle powder so to maximize the longer barrel, also you could use a slug barrel on the shotgun.

NO.

As Jim said, a .452 bullet will not clear the choked muzzle of a .410 bore.

Trying to fire a .45 Colt in a .410 shotgun is foolish and hazardous.

goon
June 7, 2010, 11:53 PM
okay everyone knows that you can shoot a 45lc from a 410 or a 410 from a 45lc as long as the chamber will take it but here what i have to ask. can i shoot a 45lc from a 410 break action single with a 3"chamber or will it give problems? and if i can then what kind of accuracy can i expect out of it with a smooth bore barrell?

Nope, just like Jim Watson said. If you want to live to become Oldgun38 I advise you not to try firing a .45 LC from just any .410. It can only be done safely in a gun that's chambered to work with both.
My .410 with a full choke measures .379 at the choke. I measured this by hammering a lead ball through it from the chamber end, then measuring the ball. Did this back when I had plans of working up either a single round ball or home made buckshot load to see what size projectile I needed.
If a .452 inch bullet hits a .379 inch bore at around a thousand FPS you might very well blow your face off.

Arkansas Paul
June 8, 2010, 12:27 AM
Sounds like a recipie for disaster friend.
There's a reason the manuals all say, "Fire only ammunition intended for this firearm"

Shadow 7D
June 8, 2010, 01:33 AM
Would a rifled barrel work with care? (then again, why not just use slugs)
it wouldn't be choked.

killchain
June 8, 2010, 09:39 AM
Do NOT attempt this. You're going to get hurt.

highorder
June 8, 2010, 10:29 AM
Would a rifled barrel work with care? (then again, why not just use slugs)
it wouldn't be choked.

A rifled .410 shotgun barrel? I've never seen one. Do you have a firearm in mind?

.410 slugs only weigh 90 grains and are a poor choice compared to .45 Colt slugs in a properly chambered firearm. If you're trying to improve the effectiveness of a .410 shotgun, some of the new loadings for the Judge are probably the best route. The 3" 5 000 buckshot probably leads the bunch.

lbmii
June 8, 2010, 02:48 PM
I have heard that various rimed rifle cartridges will chamber in a 410 with disastrous results. I THINK the British 303 will chamber in a 410. I wonder if a 45-70 will?

Don't try it you'll blow your face off.

oneounceload
June 8, 2010, 02:54 PM
A rifled .410 shotgun barrel? I've never seen one. Do you have a firearm in mind?


I would bet he's talking about The Judge (what else brings up this topic every week?)

highorder
June 8, 2010, 03:54 PM
The OP asked this question, which prompted me to ask where you find a rifled barrel for a .410:

can i shoot a 45lc from a 410 break action single with a 3"chamber or will it give problems?


I THINK the British 303 will chamber in a 410. I wonder if a 45-70 will?

No a .45-70 will not chamber in a .410, but you can safely chamber and fire .410 in a .45-70. Shot patterns are doughnut shaped and huge, even at close range.

Jim Watson
June 8, 2010, 04:40 PM
I would bet he's talking about The Judge (what else brings up this topic every week?)

No, he's not talking about the Judge but he is probably making the unwarranted assumption that a .410 is a .410 and if one shoots .45s they all can. A common subject since the Judge came out.

Shadow 7D
June 8, 2010, 06:03 PM
No, jim, I'm asking because...
I DON'T KNOW
ask me about auto pistol, and I'm pretty competent, except I avoid .45, esp 1911 like the plague, too much heart ache and drama, rather have a cute .32 from WWI nobody has heard of.

Shot gun, well, don't know why somebody would want a .410, too small, kinda like a 9mm flobert, falls in the HUH category.

So I postedCheck out the SAMMI specs, should give you the pressure of a .410

you probably could load a round down to the right range, and use a rifle powder so to maximize the longer barrel, also you could use a slug barrel on the shotgun.

I understand how chokes work, and I would assume that you WERE NOT using a choked barrel, an open or whatever, wouldn't think of trying this with a choked barrel

Next, .410 slugs I would assume have a constant bore diameter, question is
Is it possible to make it work, or will it ALL just blow up

so if I bought a mossy, or snakecharmer with a slug barrel, and I down loaded the .45 and I loaded with a soft cast bullet, would I still die???
AND
would it give an improved performance over a 3" slug??

shiftyer1
June 8, 2010, 06:16 PM
i have a nef survivor which is a single shot break open .45lc/.410 as printed on the barrel although I believe the choke needs to be removed first. I just need to find a choke wrench to get the choke out and i'll give ya an accuracy report.

highorder
June 8, 2010, 07:19 PM
so if I bought a mossy, or snakecharmer with a slug barrel, and I down loaded the .45 and I loaded with a soft cast bullet, would I still die???

You're going to buy a gun, just to attempt to feed it the wrong ammunition?

What part of a .452 bullet will not transit a .410 bore are people having trouble understanding?

EDIT:

My Marlin .410 (choked full) mic's .390" at the muzzle.

highorder
June 8, 2010, 07:30 PM
I have heard that various rimed rifle cartridges will chamber in a 410 with disastrous results.

You heard correctly.

If anyone wants to fool around with the .410, there are loads available using resized .303 Brit or .444 Marlin cases and .41 mag cast bullets.

Forget .45 Colt. It's a Judge thing, and nothing more.
The Judge is a big .45 Colt revolver, modified to shoot .410 shells.

shiftyer1
June 8, 2010, 07:58 PM
so why is my .410 bore survivor stamped .45lc/.410?

Sam1911
June 8, 2010, 08:06 PM
so why is my .410 bore survivor stamped .45lc/.410?Because it, like the Taurus Judge, is a specialty firearm designed and rated by the manufacturer to fire both.

When in doubt, ask the manufacturer. Otherwise, caveat shooter!

highorder
June 8, 2010, 08:07 PM
so why is my .410 bore survivor stamped .45lc/.410?

Because it has a .452 bore (or close to it) with a 3" chamber.

Measure it and report back.

edit: Sam's on top of things, as usual!

Arkansas Paul
June 8, 2010, 08:08 PM
shiftyer1, there are obviously some guns that are designed to shoot both. But you can't assume that any ol' .410 will do it safely, because the majority of them won't. In my post above, I said that there's a reason manuals say, "Use only ammunition intended for this firearm" In your case, either .45 Colt or .410 are intended for that firearm. We're just saying that you can't pick up a run of the mill .410 single shot and safely shoot the other round. That's all. If it doesn't say it on the barrel, don't shoot it through the gun.
(There are obviously exceptions to this rule in the rare cases where cartridges have been renamed, such as the 7mm Remington Express, but they are very rare)

shiftyer1
June 8, 2010, 08:19 PM
i just wanted to clarify because directly after my post it was stated what part is so hard to understand. I will add that the survivor is very similar to a snake charmer BUT it weighs about twice as much which tells me it has a much heavier barrel.

MachIVshooter
June 9, 2010, 12:34 AM
As I recall, you cannot chamber, or rather SHOULD not chamber a pistol round into a shotgun because of chamber pressure.

.45 Colt Cowboy loads are pretty low pressure. As mentioned, it's the choke (usually full on a .410) that'd be the problem.

Could you do it and both you and the gun survive with a cylinder bore barrel? Probably. Would it be a good idea. No. Aside from the bullet having to traverse over an inch of freebore, without rifling, it'll be unstable the instant it leaves the tube. There'd just be no point in it.

I imagine you could fire .45 Colt shotshells through a .410, but they cost more than the already expensive .410 shells. I don't know if those relatively hard shot cups might get mangled and stuck in the bore of a tightly choked gun, though.

In summary, just don't do it. There's nothing to gain and plenty to lose.

chas08
June 9, 2010, 07:08 AM
Is it possible to make it work, or will it ALL just blow up

Yes, but the barrel must be overbored to accomodate the larger projectile. As they are in the dual ammo guns. Even low pressure loads can reach dangerous levels when you try to force a too large object down a too small hole. A .410 bore is exactly that unless its overbored. A .45 bullet is .452 thats .042 or 42 thousandths of an inch too large to pass down a .410 bore no matter what the choke is. If you decide to do it, film it.

goon
June 9, 2010, 02:59 PM
Even .45 Colt cowboy loads are also expensive. I'm not sure you guys could save any money by doing this even if it were safe (which it ISN'T !!!).
So why the fixation on trying it?
My suggestions -
1. Just shoot the ammo that's supposed to go in your .410 and be happy
2. Sell your .410 and buy a gun that is designed to safely fire both .45 Colt and .410 ammunition
3. Reload .410 shells. Some brass .410 shells (made by Magtech) are on my wishlist. It should be very easy on shot and powder.

Seriously guys, we're not trying to pull a fast one on you here. We're just trying to keep you all from getting yourselves and bystanders killed.
But I ain't your mama...

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