Recipe help


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wow6599
June 8, 2010, 03:51 PM
Does anyone have any data on 9mm 124 gr Berry's plated HP bullets using Power Pistol, and what the minimum OAL should be? :banghead:

Thanks All.

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oneounceload
June 8, 2010, 04:00 PM
What reloading manuals did you look at?

wow6599
June 8, 2010, 04:04 PM
What reloading manuals did you look at?
I have a membership to Load Data.com, 2nd edition Lee and several Hodgdon manuals....including the 2010 Manual.

rcmodel
June 8, 2010, 04:40 PM
Berry says to use mid-level jacketed bullet data for their plated bullets.

Alliant does not list any 124-125 grain 9mm loads using Power Pistol.
That might tell you something right there?
In 2002, they used to list a 125 FMJ with 6.6 grains as MAX.

Speer #13 said 5.6 starting load - 6.4 Max load with a 124.
Lyman #49 says 5.1 Start - 5.7 Max.
I might try 5.3 for starting and see if they cycle.

Seating depth would be determined by what fits in your pistol barrel and feeds reliably.
Take the barrel out and use it as a guage.
Seat deep enough the bullet does not hit the rifling leade before it can fully chamber.

I am seating them at 1.060" for use in a SIG and a S&W.

rc

wow6599
June 8, 2010, 04:53 PM
I was hoping you might help out RC.
Thanks,
Chris

srsmith
June 8, 2010, 08:13 PM
In the small 9x19 case the tradeoff between between OAL and case capacity determines the range of the safe powder charge.

If you do not have official published data on the actual bullet you are going to use with the OAL specified, you must be very very careful.
Using a QuickLoad model based on the actual measured bullet length can give you another data point.

Does anyone have an actual measurement of the length of the 9mm 124 gr Berry's plated HP bullet ?

Last time I worked up a 9x19 load, Power Pistol was not availabe to me.
It is recommended for 9x19 by respected sources and I have wanted to try it.

Be Safe and have Fun !

-steve

oneounceload
June 8, 2010, 09:58 PM
Alliant's site uses Speer GDHP - which is why I asked...too many don't have manuals - glad you do

Walkalong
June 8, 2010, 10:12 PM
I loaded the Berrys 124 Gr HP at 1.030, which may have been a bit short because it was a little finicky feeding in some guns at that O.A.L..

I shot it with Universal Clays (1084 FPS in a 3" EMP) and AA #2 (986 FPS in a 3" EMP)

That is all I tried. I did not pursue any more loads with the Berrys 124 Gr bullet.

Does anyone have an actual measurement of the length of the 9mm 124 gr Berry's plated HP bullet ?

I recorded it as .3555 X .549 in my log book.

srsmith
June 9, 2010, 10:57 PM
First, the disclaimers:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL IN DESIGNING LOADS. I AM AN AMATUER HOBBYIST AND NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE ADVICE.
READERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR JUDGING THE USEFULNESS OF THIS INFORMATION AND SHOULD CHECK WITH RELIABLE SOURCES BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH CREATING THEIR LOADS. THIS INFORMATION IS PROVIDED WITH THE INTENT OF EXCHANGING IDEAS AMONG HOBBYISTS LIKE MYSELF.
============

Thanks to rcmodel and Walkalong for providing the necessary information.
This is an outline of the approach I have used in the past to develop a loads.

Before we use QuickLoad to develop the proper range of powder charge,
we need to do a sanity test on the QuickLoad model to be see it it is useable.
The Hornady #7 manual covers loads for 9x19 with 124gr bulets and Power Pistol.
Here are sample results from a corresponding QL model:

Cartridge : 9 mm Luger (SAAMI)
Bullet : .355, 124, Hornady FMJ/RN ENC 35577
Useable Case Capaci: 7.696 grain H2O = 0.500 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.150 inch = 29.21 mm
Barrel Length : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder : Alliant POWER PISTOL

Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time Hornady
% Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms Velocity
83 4.70 933 239 19084 4024 72.5 0.551 950
89 5.00 990 270 21913 4425 75.5 0.518 1000
94 5.30 1047 302 25107 4830 78.4 0.486 1050
101 5.70 1124 348 30009 5369 82.0 0.446 1100 ! Near Maximum !
107 6.00 1182 385 34239 5769 84.5 0.419 ! Near Maximum !
108 6.10 1201 397 35767 5901 85.3 0.410 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Notice that the max load in Hornady shows 30K psi, which is a reasonable maximum.
YOU WOULD ALSO CHECK OTHER LOADS HERE.
In my experience, the velocities computed by QL are almost always higher than my chronograph measures.
Let's go ahead with this example.
===============

Next step is to model the load iwth the changed components.
The OP wow6599 wants to use a Berry 124 gr plated HP bullet.

Looking at the QL bullet selection for a similar bullet, we find a 125 gr Rainier HP.
We choose this bullet to come close to what we have.
We also knw that we want OAL = 1.060 (from rcmodel) and
that the actual length of the Berry bullet is 0.549 (from Walkalong).
These are the results:

Cartridge : 9 mm Luger (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 125, "HP Rainier" Length modified to 0.549"
Useable Case Capaci: 7.222 grain H2O = 0.469 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.060 inch = 26.92 mm Chosen OAL is 1.060"
Barrel Length : 4.0 inch = 101.6 mm
Powder : Alliant POWER PISTOL

Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
89 4.70 943 247 19605 4014 73.0 0.545
95 5.00 1003 279 22844 4417 76.2 0.507
100 5.30 1063 313 26527 4822 79.2 0.472
106 5.60 1123 350 30718 5224 82.0 0.441 ! Near Maximum !
108 5.70 1143 363 32241 5357 82.9 0.432 ! Near Maximum !
110 5.80 1163 376 33830 5489 83.8 0.422 ! Near Maximum !
112 5.90 1183 389 35491 5621 84.7 0.413 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

For a pressure of 30K psi, the max charge would be 5.6 gr.
YOU WOULD ALSO CHECK OTHER BULLET MODELS HERE.
Let's go ahead with the example.

I would probably start just under 5.0 gr and work up slowly while watching for pressure signs.
NO WAY WOULD I EXCEED 5.7 GR IN MY TESTING.
It is comforting that this load range is very similar to the cast bullet loads in Lyman #49 !

Using QL let's me focus my testing on a few loads that are likely to work and be safe.
This saves lots of bullets, powder, primers and worry.

Be Safe and Have Fun !

-steve

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