"Locked Compartment"?


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BigWoolyBanjo
June 8, 2010, 06:26 PM
What would you interpret this to mean? Concerning transporting in a non-reciprocating state, in an SUV that does not have a trunk.

Is a trigger lock enough, do I have to buy a small strongbox just so I can drive through the state? Then what about the ammo?

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kludge
June 9, 2010, 02:02 PM
A locked gun case in the cargo area is sufficient, AFAIK, and out of reach of passengers while riding.

Tallinar
June 9, 2010, 02:08 PM
My understanding is that if the vehicle does not have a cargo compartment that is separate from the cab (ie, a trunk), then the gun needs to be in a locked case. The ammo would also need to be lin a locked case which (I believe) must be separate from the firearm. Not sure if you can have the gun and ammo in the same locked case.

My cars have trunks. :D

budiceman
June 9, 2010, 02:18 PM
It might depend on the state! In Minnesota It needs to be unloaded and in a case that either zips, ties, buttons or locks. (in the rear most part of vechile). not sure sure about the vechile part since I drive with the gun in a case next to me here.

NavyLCDR
June 9, 2010, 02:44 PM
18 USC 926a:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

The law specifically says CONTAINER. A trigger lock is not a container. The ammo can be in the same container as the gun, but the gun itself must be unloaded. A simple plastic carrying case that will accept a lock is suficient for a container. Also, there is no requirement for the container to be out of reach of the passengers.

OR -

You can also abide by the laws of whatever state you happen to be in at the time. For instance, if you are travelling through Wyoming, Idaho or Montana, you can have a loaded handgun openly carried in the vehicle.

budiceman
June 9, 2010, 03:42 PM
Yep each state has there own rules! Check the states you are traveling through. In Minn. as long as it is unloaded and in a closed case. If it is not cased it must be in the trunk!
No person may transport a firearm in a motor vehicle unless
the firearm is unloaded and in a closed gun case, or is
unloaded and in the closed trunk of the motor vehicle.
These requirements do not apply to pistols carried in
compliance with the carry permit requirements of the Gun
Control Act nor to disabled persons who transport the
firearm for hunting purposes in compliance with the game
and fish laws. Minn. Stat. 97B.045

Zoogster
June 9, 2010, 06:29 PM
This is determined either by fine print in a statute or case law.


The exact same term means something totally different in every state.


In one it can mean the trunk. In another it can include any container that closes, in another it has to have a key or combination lock.
In some states it includes the glove box or a console, while it others those spots are specifically prohibited.

In some states it can be next to you, in others it needs to be out of reach of anyone in the passenger area.

In some states ammo can be with the firearm and in others in cannot.

These restrictions won't even necessarily follow conventional assumptions.
For example in California it can be in a locked container with the ammo in the same container even in a loaded detached magazine, anywhere in the vehicle, including right beside you.
Yet in some states considered much less restrictive, ammo and firearm have to be stored separate and the case must be out of reach for those without a carry permit valid in the state




You don't even give a state. It is simply not that simple.


18 USC 926a:
A protection which cannot even be used unless he is going through a third (or more) state.
If he is talking about a neighboring state that does not recognize his permit then his destination is that state, and as a result he must be in compliance with that state's laws and is not shielded by 18 USC 926a even if he complies with it's transport requirements.
18 USC 926a requirements to be immune while on a journey are also typically more restrictive than required in the majority of states.
So unless going through a third (or more) state even more restrictive...Or planning to travel through such a large number of states that researching how to be complaint in them all is more hassle than it is worth, it will likely be a greater restriction on his liberties than the state law.

NavyLCDR
June 9, 2010, 06:45 PM
I love the double standard that the government applies to 18 USC 926a. If it is a gun control law, such as the gun zone law, the government claims that if the firearm or any part of the firearm EVER was in interstate commerce that the Federal law applies. Yet they will not use that standard to make 18 USC 926a apply. The firearm has to actually be moving at the time in interstate transportation to apply 926a. It would stand to reason, in my mind, that the same standards would apply. But that would be too convenient, wouldn't it. :scrutiny:

BigWoolyBanjo
June 10, 2010, 02:08 PM
OK, I guess I need to provide more details. Thanks for the responses though!

We're talking about a GA resident with a GFL. Driving an SUV with no trunk through:

TN (no problems there, they reciprocate with GA)

VA (I believe there may be some issues in VA, like always having it visible in the vehicle, but what do I do when I stop? Do I have to unload it & lock it and the ammo up seperately?)

WV (Same issues as VA, I believe)

PA (No problems, they reciprocate, I hear open carry is OK, too. Not that I'm planning on OC)

and...worst of all...MD (They do not reciprocate, or allow car carry, and it must be unloaded & inaccesable)


So, how does leaving it (visible) next to me, on the center console, sound? I think that's leagal in all states mentioned (GA, TN, VA, WV, PA) except for MD.
Then, at the MD border, unload & lock it up in a plastic carry case, and find a seperate locking comtainer/case for the ammo.

Thanks for any feedback!

NavyLCDR
June 10, 2010, 02:50 PM
VA (I believe there may be some issues in VA, like always having it visible in the vehicle, but what do I do when I stop? Do I have to unload it & lock it and the ammo up seperately?)

When you stop in VA, you can take the gun with you and open carry.

javabum
June 10, 2010, 07:53 PM
Here in California,One must lock the weapon in a case (like the one it came in)
with a key, or dial lock,unloaded (completely unloaded) and stowed under seat.And all the ammo stowed separate from the weapon.the information above is if you don't have a ccw permit and need to transport your weapon.

This information was given to me and my fellow ccw holders from a lawyer,who specializes in this field.

This is not my information but that of a professional being regurgitated by a
novice.....and should be used at your discretion.

NavyLCDR
June 10, 2010, 08:17 PM
Here in California,One must lock the weapon in a case (like the one it came in)
with a key, or dial lock,unloaded (completely unloaded) and stowed under seat.And all the ammo stowed separate from the weapon.the information above is if you don't have a ccw permit and need to transport your weapon.

This information was given to me and my fellow ccw holders from a lawyer,who specializes in this field.

This is not my information but that of a professional being regurgitated by a
novice.....and should be used at your discretion.

Either the "professionals" are wrong, or the California Highway Patrol is wrong. Who do you want to put your money on?

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?

California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.

Stowed under the seat is a bogus requirement as well.

javabum
June 11, 2010, 02:27 AM
Quite honestly NavyLT,i will put my trust in the law professional.They tend to be quite a bit more versed in the law than police officers.

BTW,what state do you live in....I live in California.So i think i have some insight
as to the law here.No offense intended.

SMMAssociates
June 11, 2010, 05:35 AM
Here in OH, "unloaded" (when required) means no ammunition in the gun AND no loaded magazines or speed loaders, including those plastic strip thingies for revolvers.

The Legislators somehow figured out that some rifle ammunition came in stripper clips and "en bloc" containers that were, well, nearly impossible to deal with, and dropped those specific types from the law.

(There's legislation "in process" to change this....)

(Meantime, don't cry. Before the above went into effect, one round in the vehicle that fit a gun made it "loaded"....)

OH is an Open Carry state, but you can't transport (or carry) a loaded weapon in a vehicle. So, you have to park, get out and reload the gun (including stuffing magazines as required), and then you can walk around and hope nobody gets upset. To leave, you must first completely empty the weapon and magazines (& such) before getting in the car.... (Whether you can load and unload in the vehicle is a little iffy right now.)

Licensees can ignore this, and can store loaded weapons in a vehicle as needed, within some semi-nasty rules that are best summed up as a "locked container". Except on School grounds, where you can't bring the gun at all unless you're picking up or dropping off your kids. Spouses & Significant Others don't count, and Lord help you if you have to go inside. Getting out of the vehicle to fasten a little one into a car seat seems to be OK, but....

Regards,

Friendly, Don't Fire!
June 11, 2010, 05:48 AM
I think if I were to travel, I would actually bolt one of those small fire safes into the back somewhere, with four grade 8 bolts into the vehicle's body or partially into frame.

I believe it is safer (and required in most places) to have the ammo stored and locked SEPARATELY!

NavyLCDR
June 11, 2010, 09:24 AM
Quite honestly NavyLT,i will put my trust in the law professional.They tend to be quite a bit more versed in the law than police officers.

BTW,what state do you live in....I live in California.So i think i have some insight
as to the law here.No offense intended.

The problem is we have enough trouble with legislators making laws that actually do restrict us. Then, when the pro-gun crowd spreads false rumors about laws that don't exist, it only further hinders us.

The statutes draw a legal line for us that continually backs us towards the wall. Why do we insist on taking that line and voluntarily, with NO basis in real statutes, and re-drawing the line even closer to the wall, backing us up closer to it ourselves. We don't need to do that to ourselves, the anti-gun crowd does that to us just fine on their own.

The ammo stored separate RUMOR in California is both widely stated, and widely debunked as well - even by law enforcement. But, just like an irrational fear of guns, sometimes it's hard to change our beliefs when presented with facts based in reality.

Here's the facts, my friend:

CA Penal Code 12031 (g) defines unloaded:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php
(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

And 12026.1 is the vehicle transportation exception:
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm: (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container. (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.


You will notice, there is no requirement to store ammo separately and the storage location for a locked container containing a firearm is "in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment". The fact the you live in California in no way changes what is written (or in this case NOT written) in the statutes. Instead of widely distributing the mistaken information the "professionals" have told us, maybe we should work towards correcting it and providing factual information.

danez71
June 11, 2010, 10:00 AM
Quite honestly NavyLT,i will put my trust in the law professional.They tend to be quite a bit more versed in the law than police officers.

BTW,what state do you live in....I live in California.So i think i have some insight
as to the law here.No offense intended.

I lived in CA for almost 40 yrs. NavyLT is right.

Storing it under your seat (particularly with-in reach) is completely wrong and would more likely get you into trouble than not.

The spirit of the law is that they dont want you (or passenger) to have easy access to it and ammmo.

When I had a single cab truck I would put gun into soft sided "container" case and put el-cheapo luggage lock through the hole in the zipper tag/handle and then throught the D-ring to lock it. Put that and the ammo in a back pack/book bag together and put it BEHIND the seat.

budiceman
June 11, 2010, 11:07 AM
(and required in most places) to have the ammo stored and locked SEPARATELY!
Maybe most places you go to! But I can think of a lot of states it is not required! On top of that he has a CCW which even makes it less of a requirement. Here you can store ammo with an unloaded gun in an unlocked case next to you. But since I have a CCW also I can drive around through 5 states before having to worry about unloading it.

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