NFA and Trusts


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Regen
June 10, 2010, 10:48 AM
What are the advantages / disadvantages regarding establishing a trust for NFA weapons? Does it matter as to the type of NFA Weapon? Also, what are the storage requirements for NFA weapons. Must they be in a true safe, or is a locked metal cabinet enough, and who can have access to them if they are in a trust? All trustees?

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jmorris
June 10, 2010, 11:16 AM
304-616-4500 Is the # to the NFA branch if you want answers directly from them.

The main advantage for me was that you do not need LEO signature with a trust. You also don’t need finger prints or photo with a trust. Disadvantage is that it’s 12 more pages you have to send in every time and you have to add every item you get to the schedule A. There is no “true safe”, just one’s that take a little longer to get into. Just not accessible to others will work. Kind of funny but you can not USPS a hand gun but a machine gun is ok.

We now have a NFA forum you might take a look in there.

basicblur
June 10, 2010, 12:38 PM
who can have access to them if they are in a trust? All trustees?
You might check out Tom Gresham's Gun Talk podcasts-just listened to 'em the other day, and he had a lawyer on that specialized in gun trusts.
Guntalk 2010-06-06 Part B Hour Two (http://guntalk.libsyn.com/) - Guest David Goldman, The Gun Trust Lawyer

Instructions for downloading (http://www.guntalk.com/site40.php).

LiquidTension
June 11, 2010, 10:04 AM
Advantages:

1) No prints/photos required
2) No CLEO signoff required - in some places the sheriff won't sign off
3) Officers of the trust can possess the items instead of you having to be there all the time

There are reports of trusts being approved faster than individuals, but it really just depends on your examiner.

As to type of item, it doesn't matter. They're all on the same list. The NFRTR (National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record) encompasses all NFA items - destructive devices, silencers, machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, any other weapons (AOW), and "unknown" devices or weapons not otherwise classified.

JustinL
June 11, 2010, 10:13 AM
I also pursued the trust route and haven't looked back. Getting it set up was a pain but well worth the effort in the long run.

GrimmLV
June 11, 2010, 11:51 AM
I also pursued the trust route and haven't looked back. Getting it set up was a pain but well worth the effort in the long run.


+1 to this.

CoRoMo
June 11, 2010, 12:55 PM
LiqTen summed it up nicely. IMO, those three advantages alone are all the reason one needs to forget individual ownership. BUT let's not forget the original reason of a living trust; inheritance without probate, and in this case, a F4 transfer and new tax stamp. As the trust continues to be the proprietor of the property, your decedents can take up custodianship of the property with less effort, time/money.

Imagine if your father left you his gun collection in his Will. It contains a number of NFA whatnots, and you have to cough up a $200 tax stamp for each one.

For this end of the discussion, legal advice is required and you shouldn't get it from me or anyone else on the internet. The problems that can ensnare you would come from things like divorce, lawsuits, etc. The trust needs to be drafted with any imaginable contingencies included.

Corey
June 11, 2010, 01:01 PM
Imagine if your father left you his gun collection in his Will. It contains a number of NFA whatnots, and you have to cough up a $200 tax stamp for each one.
Transfers as part of an inheritance transfer on a Form 5 Tax Exempt. No advantage to a trust on that.

My personal opinion, I lived in one area where the CLEO signiture took about 5 minutes each time. Where I live now it I can get it done on my lunch break. For me a trust doesn't offer me any real advantage but I can see it being usefull for other peoples situations.

CoRoMo
June 11, 2010, 02:36 PM
...legal advice ... you shouldn't get it from me...
I told you so!:o

Rick Finsta
June 11, 2010, 04:48 PM
In states like WI, where there is no law against perpetuity, no transfer will ever be needed again as long as the instrument (the trust) persists. That's even less hassle than a Form 5.

strambo
June 11, 2010, 05:11 PM
LiquidTension covered the main reasons and why I went that route. Having to go through the signature hassle every time would be a big PITA. Also, I like my wife having legal access to it w/out me having to go through the hassle of locking it up separate. I also like having my trust name engraved (which is generic in my case, I didn't use my name) as opposed to my personal name.

Lee Roder
June 11, 2010, 05:57 PM
It really seems like a misnomer to me. Here you've got a revocable living trust which was never intended to be capable of really being revoked. I mean can you imagine the carnage resulting from the Grantor's "revocation" of such an NFA trust?

I'm going with Sheriff Joe and screw this legal speak. :D

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