I was born a 100 years too late


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sonier
June 11, 2010, 02:16 AM
It amazes me at all of the dang gunlaws there are, I feel as if i make one bad or accidental step, such as a loaded gun in your truck in parts like denver, i have a felony on my hands, 100 years ago you just went hunting, you shot yourself sucks for you so you didnt do it, and people had more common sense such as guns can kill maybe? but I personally feel that with all these laws catches classes rules regulations, lack of knowledge. that the reason my generation is not into firearms is due to the major PITA it is to do anything. BTW im 19 years old so this speaks for the really young crowd.
I got the sheriffe called on me, for shooting on my own farm, 40 acres in non incorporated even zoned agriculture property, they were from denver and they didnt think i could legally shoot in my own backyard.... no i did not get in trouble yes the deputy showed up, she said i did nothing wrong, i felt near harrased, its stuff like this that just deters people from enjoying this hobby/sport/lifestyle/constituionalright/and backbone of america.
sorry for my rant its over now
post note im taking a good friend of mine to go shoot and blow some one gallon jugs up tomorrow.
PS im not a felon
Sam thank you for helping keep this thread civil you have done a lot of moderating thank you.
I want this thread to reamin civil and use language that you would at your grandmothers table. lol

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AWorthyOpponent
June 11, 2010, 02:50 AM
yes the deputy showed up, she said i did nothing wrong, i fell near harrased

Okay, sounds more like a "nosy neighbor" or "average misinformed person" complaint to me. I mean yeah, I agree that "gun laws" should be a little more lenient towards individuals who did nothing wrong, but in this case they already are. You should have invited the people that complained about you to shoot a few rounds to see how much fun it was, if they agreed to listen to a brief lecture on gun safety.

As for "OUR" generation (yeah...I'm only 23") not wanting to own firearms, Id have to disagree. Record gun sales, and the ever soaring number of new CWFL's can back me up there. I think the problem is that most people that do own firearms automatically get defensive when someone that has other beliefs speaks to them. Sit back, Listen to them, and when they are done talking, explain your standpoint. If they still do not agree, offer to take them to the range. Convince them to fire one shot. If they do, load one round into the gun and after they fire, look at them and say "see - we're all still alive" I've never seen one person from our generation that stayed 100% anti after firing one themselves.

-AWO

bthest86
June 11, 2010, 03:15 AM
Well in America, one hundred years ago, you didn't have to worry about gun laws as long as you were of the right skin color and didn't come here on a boat. Instead the sheriff would be called (or telegraphed?) on you for being away from your "side of the tracks."

For all of it's faults I'm happy to be living in this age.

metalman8600
June 11, 2010, 03:43 AM
deleted --<Sam>


Anyway, even 100 years ago, a shot on your own farm property could have been taken in a wrong way too. But yeah, I feel I am in the wrong century as well too. But sometimes, the grass is always greener on the other side. But it does seem like living in past ages would have nice qualities to it. Not all of us are satisfied with urbanized life, which as exponentially grown since 100 years ago. There is a certain quality about living in a rural area that many people don't appreciate, but some do. I would rather have to hunt animals for food than be given the option of preprocessed chemical injected store bought mass farmed meat.

As for me? I would like to live in pagan times, where you can't go to the local Walmart or butcher to pick up some beef. You would have to bow or spear hunt and you didn't have to worry about 401k, paying bills, or legal trouble from defending yourself.

gunnutery
June 11, 2010, 03:52 AM
Hmm, I too wonder what it would be like to live in another time period. A lot of adults and kids that dream of living in medieval times (for example) imagine themselves as knights or kings and queens or whatever... just remember that there were other people that had NO rights, and NO money to even buy weapons to defend themselves let alone feed their family for the night. I think we got it pretty good now.

bthest86
June 11, 2010, 04:06 AM
Um, bthest86... 100 years ago everyone came to America on a boat. There were no airlines.

Nope. 100 years ago there were plenty of people who were being birthed right here in America to parents who were born here as well as the grandparents, the great grandparents and so on. In fact people have been making other people in America for the past 15,000 years and maybe even longer. By 1910 anyone coming off a boat from say Italy or China was not going to be met very well by the established "natives." That would be around the same time New York was passing it's famous Sullivan law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Act).

deleted -- <Sam>

gfpd707
June 11, 2010, 04:13 AM
I am 27 and feel the same way. I have only recently started getting interested in guns. While telling one of my freinds that my next purchase will be a Glock he said that he thought handguns were only for cops and robbers. He then asked how I would feel if my when my son grew up and there was an accident. With one of my guns. This kind of stupidity with my generation makes me sick. By the way I told my freind he was an (deleted -- <Sam>) idiot and I would feel the same way if I accident with my car that involved my son.

metalman8600
June 11, 2010, 04:20 AM
And that fast cars are only for car races too I bet.

bthest86
June 11, 2010, 04:26 AM
airlines did not become popular until after the 1950s.

Correct.

So why was there a need to rudely correct me over something I didn't state or insinuate in the first place?

Agostini
June 11, 2010, 05:51 AM
Things are not so bad in America regarding guns at the present. The number of firearms and owners has never been bigger.

There is a sport or use for every imaginable gun. Gun laws are relaxing, shall issue states increasing, more people carrying, shooting ...

I've no regrets living right this moment ... or maybe a few but they are not gun-related matters ...

OP, don't let the gun bugs bother you, it's still a free country.

Sam1911
June 11, 2010, 07:12 AM
Folks, if people are rude and/or profane, please hit the "report" button http://www.thehighroad.org/images/buttons/report.gif. Don't respond to them. We will deal with it. Quoting them and arguing the points just makes more of a mess for us to clean up.

Thanks.

robert garner
June 11, 2010, 08:19 AM
1910? I'm gonna play the ole Geezer here,perhaps give ya a little perspective?
You wouldn't last a week in 1910 back then diseases you've barely heard of, would take you out in short order, if the Dr's didn't! If you wished to organize for more than slave wages, you could get yourself shot. You would prolly have a three day's walk just to see an 'lectric light, getting passed by on the road by an automobile would leave you feeling as tho you had now seen everything, once ya got over being scairt!
Heck if you were just to go back to 1950 you would think the ages were never this dark!
A new car would cost you 12 or 15 hundred dollars and you would most likely pass on the 12.50 option for a radio! TB, polio. and leprosy were on their way out but still available! If you were black or just fit the description of"Y'all aint from around here are ya boy", and armed you could be up for a year on the chain gang.
Open your eyes a bit and look 'round your magical house(it really is Disneyesque), It gives you winter, in the summertime, and summer come winter time. Pop the hood on your chariot 1 and 1/2 miles of wiring connecting three computers than run and regulate
an engine that doesn't have a ghost of a distibutor and will run 300,000 miles! While you listen to the BBC or classic rock on the serious radio.
Go into your local FFL and count just how many rifles he has on one wall that with practice you could hit your mark at 1000 yards or meters?,and that case of modern pistols?Talk about bang for your buck?faster louder and more accurate than ever before possible.but still less dangerous than your local PHD!
Now go hug your Ma, thank her for bringing you into this world,grab onto the Future, and hang on because it Will Be One 'elluva ride!
robert

Rembrandt
June 11, 2010, 08:28 AM
OP, I read your post six times trying to figure out if you're a felon or concerned about becoming one. 100 years ago people used better writing skills to communicate. It would help the rest of us if you used correct punctuation and sentence structure.

The threshold for committing a felony today has changed considerably in the last 100 years. Simply put, the rules of the game have changed...if you want to play it's your responsibility to know the rules. Just as traffic laws have changed in the last 100 years, we learn to conform and follow the rules to avoid legal conflict. Too many youth today are conditioned to seek victim status and have pity parties rather than educate themselves concerning gun laws.....don't be one of them. Get educated on those laws and become a source of guidance to your piers.

Regrettably we can't go back and use the old rules and laws...I'd love to walk into a hardware store and buy a full auto Thompson. Thanks to criminals from the 1920-30's, those days are nothing more than wishful thinking.

Manco
June 11, 2010, 09:10 AM
I personally feel that with all these laws catches classes rules regulations, lack of knowledge. that the reason my generation is not into firearms is due to the major PITA it is to do anything.

That's precisely the strategy of the anti-gunners, and while it works on some people, it has been a failure overall, merely an annoyance--a failed strategy of an invalid philosophy (i.e. gun control).

BTW im 19 years old so this speaks for the really young crowd.
I got the sheriffe called on me, for shooting on my own farm, 40 acres in non incorporated even zoned agriculture property, they were from denver and they didnt think i could legally shoot in my own backyard.... no i did not get in trouble yes the deputy showed up, she said i did nothing wrong, i felt near harrased,

I guess the lesson here is that it pays to know and talk to one's neighbors before doing something that may disturb them--obviously they heard the shots, which makes for a potential noise issue, and they might have been frightened. The same would have been true with some people 100 years ago, I'd imagine.

its stuff like this that just deters people from enjoying this hobby/sport/lifestyle/constituionalright/and backbone of america.

You have the right idea that an armed citizenry (on a voluntary basis individually) is the "backbone" of our rights and freedom (whoever has the guns is in charge, and that should be us), but with freedom comes the personal responsibility to coexist peacefully, as much as possible, with fellow citizens. Talk to the neighbor who complained as well as any other neighbors you might have, and invite them over for some fun and enlightenment (and maybe a BBQ or something like that). Just because one is in the right legally doesn't necessarily mean that the perspectives of others, uninformed though they may be these days with regard to firearms, should be disregarded.

Officers'Wife
June 11, 2010, 09:20 AM
Each era has(had) it's own set of problems, 1910 the 'silver' depression was still in effect and the Spanish flu pandemic just getting started. Off farm food supply was iffy at best and usually of questionable quality. Most employment was brute labor with hours that stretched from sunrise to sunset.

At the risk of being scolded for philosophy again, the main attraction of the 'good ole days' is they have been gone long enough to forget how rotten the time actually was.

CTPhil
June 11, 2010, 09:31 AM
I voluntarily live a subsistence farm/homestead life, with many elements people from 100 years ago would feel at home with. I also choose to take advantage of many modern conveniences. If I eliminated the modern, life would be pretty hard.

Times gone by seem attractive to many, but the human mind has a way of filtering the past, letting the good dominate while forgetting the bad. Generally this is a kindness, but it can also be misleading. I'm only 54, but I have seen huge changes in how society sees people who have historically fallen through the cracks. The "Good Old Days" were good if you were a white male that thought in an acceptable way. Not so good for everyone else.

I much prefer to look forward to a saner future where people are closer to the land, choose technology wisely, and respect each other. IMO we need to do better than the past.

MisterMike
June 11, 2010, 09:32 AM
Officers'Wife pretty much hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned. Nostalgia for "the good old days" often ignores the reality of the situation. Just as a "for instance," the average male life expectancy back then was 48 years. You're a kid, 10-12 years old? You might find yourself working in a factory or mine. This was a hot woman:

http://kclibrary.lonestar.edu/1911.jpg

However, I get what you're saying. Not everything is uniformly better. For gun owners, the hodge-podge of laws complicates staying law-abiding. What's legal on one side of a street may be a felony on the other. It's frustrating. The only answer is to stay informed. It's possible to do so.

TomCat5
June 11, 2010, 09:44 AM
Sonier....I like what AWorthyOpponent said in inviting them over to shoot a few rounds if they will listen to a brief safety lecture on gun and range safety....BUT

If that doesn't work out....you could always get C&C certified so you can teach C&C classes...then those nosy neighbors can take a class or kiss your a--...

Their choice. God...I love America. God Bless America!!!

You should also set up Turkey shoots as a fund raiser for your favorite local charity during Thanksgiving and Christmas

Sam1911
June 11, 2010, 09:59 AM
I'd like to add a bit to the chorus of comments about how the "good ol' days" are mistakenly viewed.

It is true that prior to the National Firearms Act of 1934 there was very little -- almost no -- widespread regulation of firearms of any kind in the U.S. Further, it is true that things got much worse in 1968, got both better and worse in 1986, and then hit a pretty rough patch in the 1990s.

However, if you look at the attitudes and realities of how people viewed and used firearms throughout much of that century, I think you'll discover that you can be VERY thankful that you're coming of age in the early 2000s.

The last 30 years has seen a vast swing in our understanding of the "practical" use of firearms. The last 15 years has seen an unbelievable rise in the acceptance -- normalcy, even -- of the routine carrying of defensive sidearms, both openly and concealed, with laws changing in almost EVERY state to favor more rights to arms for more people. This decade has seen the fall -- and utter abandonment -- of the national ban on military-style autoloading rifles. The last five years has seen the Heller case, the fall of the ban on carrying in National Parks, Heller II, the McDonald case, and a flurry of related positive steps that many of us believed we'd NEVER see.

We've seen the rise of groups like the VCDL and its sister organizations in other states that have pushed agendas of educating law enforcement about citizens' rights and lawsuits to make agencies accountable to the citizen.

Further, we've seen unbelievable increases in the numbers of gun sales and of new shooters. We've seen the adoption of what used to be though of as "evil Assault Rifles" as the standard for competition, plinking, and the kind of gun the average person might like to own.

It's almost silly to even mention the vast, VAST improvements in the kinds, styles, and technical advancements in guns themselves (and their accessories) which have happened in this stretch of time, but suffice to say that only maybe 5% of the guns you've probably ever heard of were even invented in 1910, let alone available to you. (Imagine that in 1910, very few American civilians had probably ever seen a bolt-action rifle -- probably not even heard of one!)

Don't knock the 21st century. You stand to benefit from the very hard work of many shooters who's shoulders you now stand on. The next century will be up to you and your peers to continue that work.

Don't let a polite visit from the local Sheriff get you down. Learn the law. Know the law. Follow the law. And stand up for yourself as a gentleman!

harmonic
June 11, 2010, 10:06 AM
I grew up in the 50s, back when it was a great world if you were male and white. You could order firearms off the back of a magazine and have them delivered to your door. You could take guns to school and leave them in your locker cause you were going hunting after class. And there were tons of places to shoot.

But if you weren't white, you couldn't live, eat, or even travel in just anyplace in America. I remember "whites only" and "colored only" signs. I literally remember being turned away from eating in a cafe down south because my mom had such a dark suntan (they did that back then) that the owners questioned her ethnicity.

And if you weren't male, you were paid less money for the same work, and it was legal.

We also had severe pollution. In Louisville, KY, you literally could not see more than two blocks down the street. And I remember boating in the Ohio River on the Louisville side, and there was a huge discharge pipe that pumped raw sewage into the Ohio 24/7. And cities all up and down the Ohio did the same thing.

There was polio, smallpox, typhus, along with diseases we didn't even know their names.

Dental hygiene was almost nonexistant. We didn't know. Little toothache kits were commonplace because so many people had bad teeth. And when you went to the dentist, he didn't wear rubber gloves. You were lucky if he at least washed his hands.

Don't even get me started on what I know about food preparation. We ate some nasty stuff back then.

Personally, I like now much better than then. And I happen to be a white male.

Radium
June 11, 2010, 10:08 AM
well look on the positive side.

maybe the neighbour thought u where in a huge gunfight against the mexian drug cartel? she was just looking out for u :P.

bigalexe
June 11, 2010, 10:10 AM
100 years ago wasn't that long, but the conversation seems to be stretching a bit so I'll chime in.

Given the option of living in various societies, I don't think there is a better place to live than current day America. Today if you have means and the drive you can go anywhere you want in life, and do most anything. Looking back at history this is the exception and not the rule. Also when you consider alternate countries I don't think you'll find another place with our mix of freedom and overall safety. The free-est places are anarchism and generally dominated by warring clans that will kill you for something to do, and the safest places generally get that way by making all your decisions for you.

Also on a final note: If I was born 50 years ago I probably wouldn't have lived a year, let alone 22 and counting. So I am happy where I am at.

thomis
June 11, 2010, 10:33 AM
You should also set up Turkey shoots as a fund raiser for your favorite local charity during Thanksgiving and Christmas

Brilliant idea. Seriously. You are in a good spot to set an example of how the safe enjoyment of shooting sports can produce great results in your community.

I used to say that all the time; "I was born 100 years too late". I have since changed my mind in my wise old age of 33. Now I have a daughter and the opportunities she will have are endless compared to what she would have had 100 years ago. For me, becoming a parent has opened my eyes in so many ways.

I also second the comment about your writing. Your writing does not speak much for your point.

NMGonzo
June 11, 2010, 10:45 AM
Polio and tuberculosis, no painkillers, no painless dentistry, no Saturday, company store, no options in clothing, cooking and cleaning was the destiny of most women, wars fought had millions of dead instead of a few thousands a year, etc ...

I like this modern world much better.

pockets
June 11, 2010, 11:26 AM
Hmmmm....100 years ago I would have been blind by age 8 and died at age 10.
Ah yes, those were the GOOD OLD DAYS! ;)

CoRoMo
June 11, 2010, 11:31 AM
Air conditioning, in and of itself, pretty much dictates which era I prefer to live in.

jfh
June 11, 2010, 11:52 AM
we do need a more-rounded perspective.

My world was like harmonic's world--i.e., I was born in 1945 and grew up in the Fifties. I was white, as was the small city I lived in, in Western Minnesota. I didn't get polio--but the slightly-younger boy across the street did.

The (white) culture with regards to firearms was different--and in important ways: At the age of ten, I would carry a (cased) .22LR rifle the six blocks down to the NG armory once a week for marksmanship training, and I bought the ammunition myself. No cops were called when people saw me doing that. Needless to say, many laws exist to prevent this now, and arguably, a majority of gunnies would condemn what I did, by today's values.

The point is, we do now have--ever since 1968 (before, really; it started with the RFK and MLK assassinations in 1967, not to mention earlier ones in the '60s)--a vociferous antigun mentality that has very effectively countered the integral / cultural element of firearms desirability in our society. And, without maintaining that integration, the succeeding generations will have to fight a disproportionate, antigun activism. Not every state has, nor will pass, anti-sting laws to control the Bloombergs.

Meanwhile, the gun subculture benefits Sam identified are there, to our great benefit. The next major task is--is what? How can we build off the shall-carry / carry legislation?

Jim H.

THe Dove
June 11, 2010, 11:52 AM
No internet!!!!! No High Road!!!!! And just when did Jack Daniels get formulated to perfection?????

The Dove

sonier
June 11, 2010, 01:15 PM
First off try being 19 years old and teaching a 50 year old drunk denver part timer gun safety, I get no respect whatsoever, I lived 4 years no running water and two years of no running power or electricity so you cant hold that over my head, I HAVE NO TV, I hand shear my own sheep not electric buzzers, I take a file then sharpen them after shearing half of the fleece, I break my own horses I have 2 that are green broke but the best well behaved horses you will ever see. I butcher my own livestock, I am growing 10 acres of quinoa an aztec grain that can be a replacement for wheat. I also have dairy goats yes they get milked every day, anyone ever make homeade farmers cheese? I have. In winter time this year I plan to run a trap line through the wet mountains which is my backyard. I live at 9100 altitude and it gets cold. I choose not to use propane I dont have a tank even hooked up, I have a wood burning stove in the living room and in winter time to stay in shape I split my own firewood with a maul. I was indeed born at least a 100 years too late.

leadcounsel
June 11, 2010, 01:39 PM
You have the ability to focus on the laws and effect changes. It may not seem like it, but if you are REALLY wanting to make changes, you do have the outlets to at least try.

Conversely - when I was about 13 or 14 I was hit in the mouth by a baseball and it was only due to strong pain meds and modern oral surgery that my front teeth were saved. 100 years ago I would have been in agonizing pain and likely had to have all my front teeth extracted. I imagine that most people here have either directly or indirectly benefited from modern science and medicine (themselves or their families).

FirearmsEnthusiast
June 11, 2010, 01:52 PM
It's a pitty we can't challenge people to duels anymore :(

sonier
June 11, 2010, 01:55 PM
Im not arguing that modern medicine has helped many, it has. this is off topic though.
gun sales indeed are through the roof, But it is not kids who are buying these guns, my generation is not usually that concerned with what is going on. I would love to tell you all of you about my story of this family farm and, that is self suffiecent even if the world fell apart, but this would be severly off topic. my point is there is too many gun laws due to many idiots who have made it harder for responsible gun owners. I have seen this in person effect my generation, ammo prices are through the roof, no kid is going to want to work for minium wage and spend all of his money for ammo too shoot just a few times. I self taught myself reloading at age of 16, I saved my coin and bought all my gear. I dont know one person or friend around my age that has done that, there are many kids who reload but its there parents or grandparents or family that had the equipment and taught them, I had to teach my self.

sonier
June 11, 2010, 01:56 PM
firearm enthusiast you made me laugh :) A LOT

Sam1911
June 11, 2010, 02:03 PM
ammo prices are through the roof

Also, always remember that the prices of items like guns and ammo have risen, but not nearly as much as we think -- and sometimes they've actually fallen -- when you consider the changing value of the dollar.

Some folks have posted some very interesting case studies here on THR regarding what a nice S&W revolver, or a Winchester rifle or shotgun, or a box of ammo, or pretty much anything else, would have cost at mid-century and compared it to what a working man would make in a month. Sometimes you find that folks had to scrimp and save for a long time to buy a nice gun. Probably quite a bit more than we do these days, actually.

Remember as well that most of the folks who shot and/or hunted, had one or two guns -- maybe ever. Now, most of us consider ourselves not terribly well rounded if we own less than ten, twenty, fifty...or whatever. Disposable income -- at any level -- is somewhat of a new concept.

Larry Ashcraft
June 11, 2010, 02:07 PM
I'm familiar with the area where Sonier lives. It used to be several large ranches and they were broken up into many 40 acre "ranchettes", many of which were bought by people from California, who typically bring their politics and fear of guns with them.

Sonier's neighbors probably thought there was some law against shooting guns.

Tallinar
June 11, 2010, 02:15 PM
Well spoken points, Sam. Thank you.

JoeSlomo
June 11, 2010, 02:22 PM
I'll take 200 years rather than 100....

100 wouldn't be bad though.

buck460XVR
June 11, 2010, 03:33 PM
BTW im 19 years old


ahh, the innocence and immortality of youth. Enjoy and cherish it while you can Sonier. You will soon come to appreciate the quality of life we in America have now, and the limitless choices we have. The ease of our existence and the amount of time and monies we have for fun stuff(like shooting guns). Hopefully it will continue for you and my kids alike. Altho it's too bad about your azzbole neighbors, it seems to me, for you at least, other than that, life is good. You did nothing wrong and have been cleared by the local authorities that you're good to go. Enjoy the ride...........

sonier
June 11, 2010, 03:57 PM
thanks buck :)

wishin
June 11, 2010, 04:17 PM
There have been times when I also wish I'd been born earlier. It would have been fun, exciting and adventurous to live 200 or more years ago. However, modern day conveniences outweigh all that. Hard to imagine living without cars, planes, computers, modern day medicine, telephone (at times) and the many, many inovations of our society.

As it stands, I only missed being born 100 years ago by 30 years...........:uhoh:

MADDOG
June 11, 2010, 04:52 PM
I was born in the mid 40's and I made it through the 50's, 60's and the 70's. I feel lucky as I know many who didn't. I still carry a pistol that was designed 100 years ago and a 30-30 levergun. Both are accurate and easy to maintain. I still use cast iron cookware and 40 year old Coleman lanterns, and they all work well also. You can still use the things of old. You don't have to buy the new imported wares that they are selling. I am glad that I am here now, in 2010. I kinda like it.

leadcounsel
June 11, 2010, 04:57 PM
ammo prices are through the roof

I don't have any statistics handy, but I suspect that 100 years ago ammo was quite costly and 'hoarding' or shooting thousands of rounds (like many folks now do) would have been unheard of.

Also, the amount of skill and training we have available would have been unheard of. Look at pictures of military folks shooting pistols back then... they stood tall, like a jouster, with the strong hand forward hold the handgun out like a rapier and the off hand on their hip!

I look at the level of health, education, weatlh, skill, happiness, places I've traveled, experiences I've had (SCUBA, flying, snowboarding, travel), the conveniences I have (lights, water, plumbing, medical and dental health, convenient healthy food, body armor, private self contained mode of fast reliable transportation anywhere in the nation in hours or days, comfy bed, heat and air conditioning, music, movies, amazing TV, paid vacations, computer, internet, etc.), and all the other benefits of modern life... you can wax nostalgically about the past century but I agree that this is really about the best time and place to live in history. Nearly all of my experiences, abilities, and potential would have been unheard of, or nearly unheard of, a century ago.

Men died at 45, had miserably hard lives, fought in incredibly violent and bloody wars, lost their women to childbirth and their children to common diseases regularly. I suspect most families had very little property, maybe one or two guns and a few boxes of bullets. Vacations were unheard of. Savings were kept in a cigar box. Insurance was probably rare, and a single disaster would have meant poverty. Transportation was your feet, a bicycle, or a horse. You were lucky to be literate. Lucky to have a stable household and food and water and your health, and that was about it for 'middle class.'

I'll keep 2010, thank you!

JWF III
June 11, 2010, 05:11 PM
Let's see,... 100 years ago,... maybe for a month or so. Otherwise, I'll stay right where I'm at.

I'm 34 yo. My grandfather died just 7 years ago, he would be 101 right now. I spent a bunch of time talking with him about the "good ole' days".

As the second child, he started working the farm at the age of 8. He took the mule and the plow 5 miles across the swamp (wooden bridge) to work the breastworks left over from the Civil War. (Yes a mule and plowing the battlefield, now a state park.) Schools closed down for planting time and harvest time. His father died (influena pandemic) when he (grandfather) was 11. (His father ~40, can't remember the exact date of birth). He hunted for survival, "bushwacking" quail in order to kill as many as possible with each shot. There were no deer or turkey in the area. (Each is overpopulated there now.) He never got to shoot "just for the fun of it". Just like most of the people of that time. There were no "hobbies" at that time, money was too hard to come by. And things we consider hobbies, they were survival at that time. He (and several friends) left home in their early 20s (Depression Era), took their (don't know whose, it wasn't my grandfather's) Model T west, and followed the crops ready for harvesting. Working sunrise to sunset, six days a week, for the change we'd loose in seat cushions or on the floorboard of our car.

No thanks. Today may not be the "good ole' days", but neither were they. A month or so, I'd love, mainly just out of curiosity. But only if I could return to current times.

Wyman

harmonic
June 11, 2010, 07:20 PM
my point is there is too many gun laws due to many idiots who have made it harder for responsible gun owners.

The flip side of the coin is that back in the day, there was no such thing as concealed carry unless you were a LEO. That was for Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida and Ohio, places I lived at one time or another.

I can also tell you that deer hunting was banned for some time in Indiana due to declining populations.

In some respects, gun laws are actually better now than fifty years ago.

Sam1911
June 11, 2010, 07:57 PM
In some respects, gun laws are actually better now than fifty years ago.

To illustrate:

http://www.kc3.com/images/rtc.gif

Oh, and the map has continued to improve since that .gif was created!

MCgunner
June 11, 2010, 08:08 PM
Air conditioning, in and of itself, pretty much dictates which era I prefer to live in.

That, and I appreciate local anesthetics when I go to the dentist.

danprkr
June 11, 2010, 08:21 PM
Gun and personal property rights aside. I think the biggest disservice we do to ourselves with all of these rules and regulations is to breed ourselves into idiocy. Allow me to explain:

Several years ago I needed a pickup to get some stuff. I didn't own one at the time, so I swapped vehicles for a couple of days with a buddy. His truck being a couple of years newer had a legally required clutch safety switch that would not allow the starter to engage unless the clutch was depressed. Now my car didn't have a clutch lock out.

Well, I've done my errands, and he comes up to my work and swaps back out. After work, I get in my car - after only a 2 day absence - and already being used to his 'safety device' of a clutch lock out realize that I had trained myself to rely on it. I stuck the key in, turned it, and then pushed the clutch. Not a problem with his truck and it's idiot proofing, but with my car that you needed to think to be safe in I nearly launched into the plate glass window of my work. So, in 2 days I'd been idiotfied (is that even a word:p).

Now apply that to guns etc, and you see where we're safety regulating ourselves in to unthinking morons. Now I'm not saying safeties on guns are bad things, but in not allowing us to ANYTHING that MIGHT hurt us we're training ourselves to rely on either mechanical safeties which can and will fail from time to time. Or regulatory safeties that require government enforcement which can only happen after someone is hurt. In the meantime we're dumb and happy thinking we're safe. Whereas if we forced ourselves to think to keep ourselves safe we'd all be much more conscientious and truly safe.

In proof reading this I see I've just made the argument for survival of the fittest. In this case the mentally fittest, but so be it. The flip side to freedom is responsibility, and if we abdicate our responsibility to the designers of our devices or our government we will ultimately find we've abdicated them our freedoms also.

YMMV

Hatterasguy
June 11, 2010, 08:44 PM
Things have improved a lot in just the past 10-15 years.

I remember when AR's were EBR's and it looked like they would be outlawed at some point. Now the AR is the everymans rifle. Like the lever action .30-.30 of 100 years ago.

wishin
June 11, 2010, 09:39 PM
That's a great map........;)

sonier
June 13, 2010, 06:05 PM
I loved the map, I guess things change theres pros and cons for everything, i think its just personal preferance at this point.

BLACKHAWKNJ
June 13, 2010, 07:26 PM
"The Good Old Days" and the "Golden Age" always occured before you were born or you were too young to remember them or enjoy them.

Manco
June 14, 2010, 10:37 AM
I don't have any statistics handy, but I suspect that 100 years ago ammo was quite costly and 'hoarding' or shooting thousands of rounds (like many folks now do) would have been unheard of.

Undoubtedly true, although it should be noted that some people can get more out of shooting thousands of rounds than others.

By the way, does anybody here know what the typical retail price of a box of cartridges was back in the day (either 100 years ago or in the Old West)? Certainly anybody who used a relatively large amount would have loaded and reloaded their own, and there are many references to that practice, but it would give us some idea of the general cost of shooting. Google has not come up with much regarding this topic (at least in my apparently inept hands :o), and the only references that I can recall from books seems to place the price at about $1 a box (typically 20 or 50 rounds) for handgun ammo (high-powered rifle ammo was far more expensive) in the 1880s. So roughly speaking, after inflation is taken into account factory-loaded handgun ammo cost about what it does today, although affordability was the main issue, as $1 was about a whole day's wages for many people back then, effectively making ammo at least several times more expensive (or rather less affordable to ordinary working stiffs) than it is today.

Also, the amount of skill and training we have available would have been unheard of. Look at pictures of military folks shooting pistols back then... they stood tall, like a jouster, with the strong hand forward hold the handgun out like a rapier and the off hand on their hip!

I would guess that most of the advantage we would enjoy today, in a hypothetical comparison, has to do with improved technique (which you implied), although training is of course always important, as that's obviously how one learns techniques, old or new.

I look at the level of health, education, weatlh, skill, happiness, places I've traveled, experiences I've had (SCUBA, flying, snowboarding, travel), the conveniences I have (lights, water, plumbing, medical and dental health, convenient healthy food, body armor, private self contained mode of fast reliable transportation anywhere in the nation in hours or days, comfy bed, heat and air conditioning, music, movies, amazing TV, paid vacations, computer, internet, etc.), and all the other benefits of modern life... you can wax nostalgically about the past century but I agree that this is really about the best time and place to live in history. Nearly all of my experiences, abilities, and potential would have been unheard of, or nearly unheard of, a century ago.

As far as creature comforts, the number of available and commonly accessible ranges of experiences, and sheer material wealth the "average" person can accumulate go, this is indeed the best time to live in. That said, some less tangible aspects of life have apparently been sacrificed, as well, especially in the last decade or so. It's hard to put a finger on it, so to speak, but we seem to exist in a world that has a poor sense of time, and I think that's a heavy price to pay for modern convenience (if a causal relationship exists). My mom grew up without modern conveniences (no indoor plumbing and electricity), and while she has said that she didn't want to go back to those conditions, she admits that she didn't mind them at all back then, and she's told me many stories about how fun her childhood was despite having to work much of the time to help her family survive. Are watching so much TV and sitting on one's butt playing video games necessarily superior as regular, daily activities? Granted, any drawbacks in modern life can be overcome by having the proper perspective and making better choices, but for society as a whole I see a high cost. Just as we should beware of the false sense of security that our rulers would have us feel while living under their thumbs, we should beware of the dangers of comfort, excessive material wealth, and our growing dependence on a smoothly functioning society.

Men died at 45,

Plenty lived longer, though.

had miserably hard lives, fought in incredibly violent and bloody wars, lost their women to childbirth and their children to common diseases regularly.

All true, but give people some time for the bloody wars thing.


Transportation was your feet, a bicycle, or a horse.

None of which require petroleum, I've noticed. ;)

harmonic
June 14, 2010, 11:33 AM
None of which require petroleum, I've noticed.

Yeah, but right around the time cars were becoming feasible, animal waste was a huge problem. There was a whole industry surrounding what to do with animal waste.

So, we traded one form of pollution for another. What's your point?

GEM
June 14, 2010, 11:37 AM
If I were born 100 years ago - I would have died from various medical problems - once at age 16 and again at age 20. Family members would have suffered from crippling illnesses that today were easily corrected.

Many of us would be legally discriminated against by the laws of the time and it was acceptable to the culture. So feh, on the original premise.

BHP FAN
June 14, 2010, 03:20 PM
..''Imagine that in 1910, very few American civilians had probably ever seen a bolt-action rifle -- probably not even heard of one!''

The Krag Jorganson was familiar to anyone who had served in the military.As the standard service rifle,it was probably heard of by anyone at all interested in shooting.It was a bolt action.The 1891 Mauser,the 1895 Mauser, the Moisen Nagant 1891the Mondragon the Springfield 1906....I THINK they may have ''heard'' of the bolt action.

WinchesterAA
June 14, 2010, 03:41 PM
You were born at just the right time, my friend.. Our people have been fighting for years to figure out why wars and things of that sort keep happening, and now we finally know for sure what caused em.

You were born in a vehicle teetering on the side of a cliff.. Whether or not it takes the plunge is anyone's guess, but you're gunna have the ride of a lifetime.. A life so many millions of people have died for.

Don't that just make you feel special?

and the science, too.. People back then didn't have the science.

BLACKHAWKNJ
June 14, 2010, 05:43 PM
Cartridge reloading was in its infancy then, smokeless powder still fairly new.

Manco
June 14, 2010, 05:50 PM
Yeah, but right around the time cars were becoming feasible, animal waste was a huge problem. There was a whole industry surrounding what to do with animal waste.

So, we traded one form of pollution for another. What's your point?

Well, you asked for it. ;)

...deleted many paragraphs of interesting but off-topic theorizing. --<Sam> ...


Regarding the subject of guns, ahem, I would say that as with everything else, more is not always better, at least in every way.

Sam1911
June 14, 2010, 06:01 PM
Guns? We're here to talk about guns... Not petroleum, not peak oil, not foreign policy, not environmentalism. Not French social policy or pretty much anything but GUNs and gun ownership.

Sometimes a thread veers a little and then corrects itself. And sometimes not.

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