Nagant vs Enfield .303


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LubeckTech
June 11, 2010, 03:36 PM
How does a Mosin Nagant M91 compare to an Enfield full size (not jungle carbine) in terns of accuracy as long as both guns have good bores? I am thinking of buying a pre WWII M91/30 this summer but have read some bad things about them in terms of accuracy. I am also considering a .303 British and I have some brass form a jungle carbine I used to own. Basically which one is more diserable? I am leaning towards the .303 as they are apprecating in value more than the Nagants.

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351 WINCHESTER
June 11, 2010, 04:02 PM
There is probably not a lot of difference in the accuracy dept. between the 2 rifles. Maybe a slight edge to the Enfields. I much prefer the Enfields due to their butter smooth actions.

LubeckTech
June 11, 2010, 04:20 PM
From what I've read the bolt of the Mosin can be difficult to operate.

GunsBeerFreedom
June 11, 2010, 04:31 PM
In pure mechanical term the slight advantage would lie with the Mosin, due to it's cock on closing frontal lugs feature. Of course such an "advantage" is slight in the extreme. The Enfield has better sights also.

mm1ut1
June 11, 2010, 04:51 PM
I never had much luck with Enfields. A 91/30 with a good bore is just as accurate as any milsurp out there. If you handload both bullets can be hard to find. My advice would be to pay a little more and get a K31 or Swede M96. Those rifles dominate vintage shooting, although it usually comes down to the shooter. Between the 91/30 and Enfield I'd go with the 91/30.

Tallinar
June 11, 2010, 04:54 PM
I've owned and fired several Mosin Nagants (91's, 91-30's, 38's, 39's, 44's), as well as a few various Enfields.

With the exception of the Finnish model 39 I had experience with, I've had much better success with Enfields. Most of this I would attribute to the better sights. But I tell you, them Finns knew how to make rifles!

I'm not a fan of the model 91 sights. My dad has one that is exceptionally accurate, and he actually favors the 91 sights. To each his own. It's been my experience though that model 91's are kind of like a box of chocolates. You really never know what you're gonna get. Some are junk and some are pretty impressive shooters considering their age and condition.

CnRnut
June 11, 2010, 05:50 PM
Get a Fin M39.

Andrew Wyatt
June 11, 2010, 06:13 PM
the number4mk1 blows the nagant out of the water.

Robert
June 11, 2010, 06:37 PM
I'd take my No1 MkIII* over a crate of 91/30s any day of the week. Not on is it easier to operate it is more accurate, and easier to keep on target during firing. I can put more accurate fire down range at a higher rate than a 91/30 ever thought of.

DPris
June 11, 2010, 06:55 PM
Bore condition is probably as much of a determining factor in surplus rifles as the two different action types.

After going through about six Enfields in poor to indifferent condition over a period of several years, I stumbled across a minty 1955 No4MKII that shoots two inches at 100 yards without me even trying hard.

Condition, in either rifle, is important. You just won't likely find a relatively unfired Nagant, and one with a great bore may take some searching for.
Denis

Cosmoline
June 11, 2010, 08:03 PM
Assuming good condition, the average Enfield will outshoot the average Soviet Mosin-Nagant, though not by a huge factor. However there are tremendous variations between rifles and between loads for each rifle. So it's difficult to generalize.

I agree your best bet value wise is a Finnish M39. They're still available for under $200 now and they're really nice rifles with good triggers, smooth bolts and custom heavy barrels. Enfields of similar quality cost quite a bit more.

Surplus 54R is easier to find and cheaper than surplus .303 British these days. You can get great deals on excellent Polish light ball and Hungarian right now, along with Czech silvertip and Yugoslavian heavy ball. Even up here we're awash in 54R.

PRM
June 11, 2010, 08:30 PM
Can't comment on the Enfield. I did pick up a Mosin Nagant Carbine about 8 years ago. A guy I knew had bought 5 of them in unissued condition and offered me one at his cost ($60). At that price I could not pass it up. I cleaned and refinished the stock and it turned out absolutely beautiful. The gun is more accurate than I am capable of shooting it. At 200 yards it is as accurate as any other iron sighted rifle I have shot.

Dr T
June 11, 2010, 08:50 PM
Within the last week, I acquired a Finn M39 and a LE No. 4 Mk. 1. The MN is built like a tank. Sights are typical miliary tangets with a little bitty notch. After getting the cosmoline out, the bolt is a little rough, but not too bad. My principle complaint is that the safety is a bear to operate.

The LE has been sporterized. The action is good and fast, and the only thing I have that is smoother is a Springfield 1898 30-20 Krag. The sights are superior. So far, removal and reinsertion of the magazine has been stiff, but the gun has not seen much use and may loosen up.

Both are nicely balanced, but the LE is about 2.5 pounds lighter (but it does not have military furniture).

gandog56
June 11, 2010, 08:50 PM
NO NO NO!

A Nagant is a revolver!

You mean a Mosin Nagant!

XxWINxX94
June 11, 2010, 08:52 PM
Going to have to take the Enfield side on this one. While the mosin-nagant is a great rifle, the Enfield No4 Mk1, I would say is a little better because:
-10 round capacity
-Better action (in my opinion)
-Better sights """"""""""""""""""

P.S. I own both & Shoot both

toivo
June 13, 2010, 05:16 PM
I shot my Finnish M39 alongside a guy shooting an Enfield #4 at my club yesterday. We were shooting 100 yds., first from the bench and then prone. Results were pretty much equal: good accuracy from both rifles. He shot much more quickly than I did, though, due to time I spent wrestling with the bolt. M39 does not like steel-cased ammo... :(

Limeyfellow
June 13, 2010, 05:23 PM
A Finnish M39 is much more accurate than the average M91-30 Mosin luckily and is a true darling of a rifle.

The average Lee Enfield is going to be better than the average Mosin Nagant. Of course I don't use my Lee Enfield with iron sights over 600 yards. The Lee Enfield bolt action movement is far superior, though it is going to cost more to operate it, due to the more expensive rounds.

RonE
June 13, 2010, 11:00 PM
The Enfield has a smoother action and is probably even with the M-N in the area of accuracy. The condition of the barrel and muzzle crown is critical in both rifles. Now, if you are planning on shooting a lot, then the choice would be the Mousin-Nagant because of the cost and availablity of ammunition. The M-N is very economical to shoot and the Brit .303 ammunition can be somewhat spendy. Both rifles are ugly!

bpl
June 14, 2010, 12:24 PM
Where is a good place to look for an M39, or an Enfield.

Also, what's involved with obtaining a C&R License?

Thanks!

JHK94
June 14, 2010, 12:30 PM
J&G sales, Classic Arms, and Southern Ohio Gun have Enfields right now...who knows their condition.

gunsnammo.com sells a variety of M39s at pretty reasonable prices.

Ignition Override
June 14, 2010, 12:54 PM
SOG, Classicarms (NC) and JGsales have either old surplus RG or Greek .303, at about .50/rd.
The Greek has Boxer primers, and don't know whether the primers have that tough sealant.

For those who reload, new Prvi Partizan .303 with thick brass is about .60/rd. and I've reloaded it at least four times each, using the lighter powder and 147-grain bullet loads.
My Lee Enfield #4 and #5s (Carbines) are the exact reason why I learned how to reload.

Near Memphis, a gun show can be a good place for an Enfield or two, some of which were Not sporterized, thank goodness.
For higher retail prices plus shipping etc, try the wide variety at "Joesalter.com".

351 WINCHESTER
June 14, 2010, 01:49 PM
+1 on Privi brass. It's the best in the .303.

jpwilly
June 14, 2010, 04:16 PM
Condition, in either rifle, is important. You just won't likely find a relatively unfired Nagant, and one with a great bore may take some searching for.

Yes an excellent bore should shoot better than a sewer pipe. Good ammo and sights are important as well. I'll take the Lee Enfield over a Mosin Nagant but both work quite well.

bgrav321
June 14, 2010, 05:43 PM
I am currently on my second 91/30 and own a Lee Enfield as well. The Lee Enfield is far superior in every department. The bolt is amazing, the sights are better, the trigger is better, and it's more accurate. The only kicker is finding ammo.

jpwilly
June 14, 2010, 09:41 PM
The only kicker is finding ammo.

HOTSHOT and PRVI is pretty good stuff and reloadable brass...get a Lee Reloading kit and your in business.

armoredman
June 14, 2010, 10:26 PM
Selling Enfield No4Mk1* with reloading gear here, great shape. Action is easy to use. Had both Mosin Nagants and Enfield, Enfield is a better rifle, twice the mag capacity, and if you don't do the Mosin Cure to the chamber, the action sticks HARD with surplus ammo. Mosin is a good reliable durable peasant's rifle, and I wouldn't mind getting another M38, but the Enfield is better for shooters.

finloq
June 25, 2010, 12:28 AM
My Finned Tula 91/30 outshoots my Sako M39 and my No. 4 Long Branch outshoots them both. Heck all three are capable of better accuracy than I am, so I have no complaints at all.

bennadatto
June 25, 2010, 12:34 PM
I have a love hate relationship with my Mosin...so I'd go Enfield. My Mosin is pretty much as accurate as any other milsurp I own (except the K31) and it's cheap and fun to shoot. However, it's mechanical issues (read sticky bold) put me in last place at my most recent Military Vintage Rifle Competition! It does slow fire just fine, but rapid fire is another beast altogether!

Classicarms.us has Enfields in stock right now. I've dealt with them several times in the past, and they're good people! Just be prepared to clean a TON of gunk out of the rifle. I've cleaned up over a dozen milsurp rifles and the Enfield had more crud in it than all the other rifles combined!

Gelgoog
June 25, 2010, 02:10 PM
In pure mechanical term the slight advantage would lie with the Mosin, due to it's cock on closing frontal lugs feature. Of course such an "advantage" is slight in the extreme. The Enfield has better sights also.

I think you have that the other way around. The enfield cocks on closing making it significantly faster then any bolt action that cocks on opening such as mausers, and especially mosins (which have a small bolt handle giving it less leverage).

Neither action are particularly strong, at least not compared to a mauser 98 action.

Lee-enfields are the superior rifle hands down when compared to mosins.

Kentucky-roughrider
June 25, 2010, 02:25 PM
I prefer the Lee Enfield over the Mosin Nagant hands down but the Finish Mosin is a horse of a different color than a Russian or Warsaw pack country. It is the only one that comes close to a Lee Enfield.

LubeckTech
June 25, 2010, 03:39 PM
Finnish M91 or M39??

nathan
June 25, 2010, 03:51 PM
I have both with the LE in a recent buy. I have no .303 ammo as of now and can t say how it shoots. THe MN is no brainer a great rifle . AMmo is quite plentiful even to this day. I can get 2-3 inch grps at 100 yds easy if i do my part.

Tallinar
June 25, 2010, 04:21 PM
Finnish M91 or M39??

M39. The model 39 was developed exclusively by the Finns.

Cosmoline
June 25, 2010, 05:30 PM
The Finn M91's are also very nice. They're a longer, leaner rifle based on the original M-N. They saw a lot of service in all of the Finnish wars. The biggest differences are that the M91 has the old style sights and a much thinner barrel.

pymi
June 25, 2010, 06:34 PM
I would go with the M91 or the M91/30 the great balance of these rifles makes the Enfield feel like holding a shovel to me.
Accuracy with each rifle will differ with different ammo, but my worn pitted bore 1916 Izhevsk M91 holds 2nd place to the K31.

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