[Nick1911]

It's obvious that everyone here feels pretty much the same way on issues surrounding RKBA, but in the overall public in general, are we winning support for our cause or losing it? It would seem from the ever-esclating gun regulations that there is increasing anti-support, but it is difficult (at least for me) to tell what the overall consensous is.
Just curious,
-Nick

[pax]

Another poster put this up in another thread, and I think it answers the question in an encouraging way.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=640361

pax

[Nick1911]

:D Thank ya!

[N3rday]

Let me just say this:

THAT MAP IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL THING I'VE SEEN IN A LONG TIME!!!

Must show my still-skeptical mom!

P.S. What does "may issue" mean as opposed to "shall issue"

[Drjones]

Hello and welcome, Nick. :)

I've learned that it's very easy to catch a severe case of "the sky is falling" syndrome if you spend too much time on the various gun boards, since predominately negative news is posted.

When you look at the big picture, we actually are winning. There was a link that I saw here a while ago that showed the US states colored by CCW laws. One color for harsh laws, one for easier laws, etc.

There are more states now (about 37, IIRC) that make it very easy for their citizens to get CCW than there were 20 years ago.

MO just got it (right?) and I read in the newest edition of "America's First Freedom" that KS is considering introducing a CCW bill soon.

Things actually are getting better...the true test will be whether the AW ban expires....

Regards,
Drjones

[Drjones]

Wow.

When I clicked "reply," I was the first poster.

You guys move fast!

That graphic that pax posted is exactly the one I'm talking about. Pretty cool, eh? :D :D :D


Hiya, Pax!!! Hope you had a great thanksgiving!

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

IMO, since 9/11 we have gained support. I think people are re-evaluating their own security. Obviously firearms could not have prevented 9/11 (unless we can carry on aeroplanes:banghead: ), but people have begun to see the possibilities of SHTF scenarios. Survival and protecting one's family is a very strong human instinct.

What you are seeing with the anti-gun laws and court decisions is a remnant of the past thinking. It usually takes a few years (legislation) and perhaps decades (judiciary) for the politics to catch up. CCW is catching on state-by-state. Ashcroft and the 5th circuit have renewed the "individual right" argument. Alaska recently adopted model legislation for absolute carry rights.

I know several people that have changed their minds...however, I may just be very persuasive (:evil: ). But the seed is already there, I just added some water (:D ). Americans are basically conservative. Look at the backlash in the PRK. I predict that similar backlash will occur in the east. Nevada is already snapping back from its foray into the bliss of gov. control (i.e. security for the masses).

New Jersey, Maryland and some of those "other" east coast havens for authoritarians and blissninnies may be lost for a while. However, even Wash. D.C., the home of the sheeple, is demanding a return to the RKBA! ;)

Keep up the good fight.

[jimpeel]

P.S. What does "may issue" mean as opposed to "shall issue"May issue is a "discretionary" state where the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) makes the determination of whether you may have one or not. If he is the type whose discretion is that noone should have a CCW then that is what you get -- nothing.

Shall issue is a state wherein the CLEO has no discretion. If you pass the lawful test to possess a CCW, you get one. He has no say otherwise.

[geekWithA.45]

IIRC, whether you actually get a permit in a may issue state has a lot to do with the nature of the official who does the issuing. In _most_ states, it is in fact a CLEO, and in many places, that's the sheriff, an elected official. In states where the CLEO is an appointed official, that official tends to follow the party line, whatever it might be.

Most places, I hear it's like 50/50 or better if you apply, as long as you're not in a big city. States like MA, with something like 4 levels of permit afford the CLEO flexibility, but from what I hear, most don't want to bother issuing anything other than the top of the line, "all lawful purposes" type of permit, so they don't have to worry about stupid stuff. (Of course, there's some who won't issue any at all, and have to be sued, but they don't seem too common)

NJ's kind of unique. County level _judges_ have the final say, they're appointed, and they all toe the Democratic party line, which means that only about 650 permits exist in the whole state,which includes heavily restricted work related permits for armed guards. Retired LEOs also get special treatment, there's about 1500 permits floating around for them.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

May issue is a "discretionary" state where the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) makes the determination of whether you may have one or not. If he is the type whose discretion is that noone should have a CCW that that is what you get.

For example, in the only western state with "may issue," California (PRK), try to get a permit in southern california (LA or ORange county). :banghead:

I now live in a "shall issue" state.:D

[Nick1911]

I know this is a tad bit off my original topic, and arn't really trying to hi-jack my own thread, but i got thinking about something; here in indiana, i can get a CCW permit when i'm 18, right? But i can't buy a handgun until i'm 21? Am i wrong here, or just missing something?
-Nick

[pax]

Thanks, Dr Jones.

By the way, I think it was Pittspilot who first posted that image. Made my day, too. :)

pax

[dustind]

May issue usually means it is up to the police chief and or sheriff. Some will issue to most people, some only to their friends, and some are very corrupt. Check out www.equalccw.com for a lot of information on the subject.

I would say gun control on all fronts is moving in our favor, it may even be possible to repeal laws, passing federal bans is not going to happen. The AWB may be renewed, but only because of the lies and hysteria caused by the thought of evil guns returning to the streets.

[greyhound]

May issue is a "discretionary" state where the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) makes the determination of whether you may have one or not. If he is the type whose discretion is that noone should have a CCW that that is what you get.

As an example of two "may issue" states - in MD, its pretty much "no issue" (if you can prove you carry large amounts of cash, you might get a "to the bank only" CCW, or if you have police-documented threats against your life, you might get a CCW). Otherwise no dice.

But in Alabama, also a "may issue" state, its pretty much the same as a "shall issue" state (at least in Greene County).

And for comparison, look at Minnesota, which in 5/03 passed a "shall issue" law. All the liberal sheriffs who always denied CCW because of their leftist leanings are absolutely going ape because they now have to issue.
One clown sheriff actually went so far as to say that CCW applicants are "soft white guys who look in the mirror and don't like what they see". Another signs all his permits "Sub Recuso" (Under Protest). These are the urban/suburban sheriffs. AFAIK, the more rural ones have been issuing CCWs for years.....