My 40S&W Journey


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mohunter55
June 15, 2010, 09:28 AM
Hello,

I've recently bought a glock 22 and have a lone wolf replacement barrel on the way. I also bought a box of 500 Missouri Bullet 170gr LSWC. I have LaserCasts data for their 170gr LSWC, but i noticed Hodgdon doesnt posted any lead data for the 40S&W so I emailed them. Here was their response :

"We do not recommend the use of lead bullets in the 40. Our lab testing shows that lead bullets tend to deliver higher than desired pressures in this cartridge. " :barf:

So, now I'm thinking if thats Hodgdons response, I will simply not use their powders. I have another email out to Alliant, since all they list is jacketed data online. Accurate on the other hand does list data for the 40 using lead. They have AA#5 which I am a bit scared of due to the info I've seen at the gunzone: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/tapioca.html Can anyone comment on if they are using AA#5 and 40?...I'm thinking maybe AA#5 and 40 is a very popular mix and that is why there were more cases of KB's?

Also, Accurate has a loading using AA #9 170 LSWC, 9.2 grains of powder and 1.115 oal. Can anyone comment on this load? I think this is what I'm going to go with, although I noticed AA#9 is meant to be used for Magnum cartridges, so I'm a little uncertain of how it will perform.

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Clark
June 15, 2010, 09:51 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.




Lots of people use lead in 40sw.
I have overloaded a few 40sw chambers to see what happens.
There are some terrible 40sw chambers out there, especially in Glock22 pistols.

Lots of people use AA#5 in 40sw.
I have overloaded with AA#5 to see what happens.
AA#5 is the highest speed- density product I have seen AND it is peaky.
[That means if I can't blow up the gun with AA#5, then I can't blow it up.]

Any barrel that fits in a Glock 22 has enough chamber wall thickness to work with any load the brass can take in an incremental load work up.

So you should be fine, if you work up a load, while watching for lead in the barrel or brass failure.
Inspect between each shot in the work up.
I carry a magnifier.
I wrap a towel around the pistol to catch the ejected case.
I expect you will reach the limit of how much recoil you can tolerate before you reach the threshold of brass failure.

TonyT
June 15, 2010, 12:13 PM
mohunter,
The 14th Edition W-W reloading manual had some data for lead bullets in 40 S&W. PM me you e-mail address with the subject and I'll send you a copy of the page with the 40 S&W data.

918v
June 15, 2010, 02:24 PM
If lead bullets deliver higher pressures in the 40 S&W per Hodgdon's testing, why not reduce the powder charge? There is no reason to load everything to max pressure all the time. I load my stuff to the lighest pressure I can get away with accuracy in mind.

Claude Clay
June 15, 2010, 02:37 PM
for my sig p239/40....to replicate gold dots i charge 6.5gr power pistol under a 180gr hard lead truncated bullet. POA/POI and percieved recoil are the same.

*****usual warnings apply****


also shoot a S&W40VE.
8+ thousand rounds later ( practice for carry [sig] and IDPA [both]) zero problems.
----strong crimp on the 40----
setback of even 1/10" can double pressure.

Jumping Frog
June 15, 2010, 10:25 PM
Ramshot does a good job of including various lead bullet weights and loads for their powders across a number of semiauto pistol calibers, including 9mm and .40 S&W, while I have noticed other powder manufacturers seem to have dropped published lead loads.

Personally, I like both Ramshot Zip and Ramshot True Blue in .40 S&W. I am pushing 175 gr LSWC.

mohunter55
June 16, 2010, 12:53 AM
Thanks jumpfrog. I think what I'm going to do is go with Accurate's data. I contacted them and they said i can use 170 or 175 grain lead data. I think im going to shy away from AA#5, due to the reports of KB's whether that is true or not, I'd rather not risk it for my first time with 40. I think I will go with one of the 2 starting grain loads below. Let me know what you guys think.

AA#7 7.6gr 1.115 OAL......or
AA#9 9.2gr 1.115 OAL

I will probably load these a bit longer, maybe 1.125 or 1.135. I lean more towards #9, simply because i think i will have a fuller case.

Skylerbone
June 17, 2010, 10:09 AM
I've been loading 175 gr LSWCs with 5.7 of Accurate #5 without incident for my M&P (4 1/4" barrel).

I can say that the powder was bought nearly 20 years ago though properly stored. Looking at the various articles sighted above the parts that stand out are in reference to fines. The Accurate as metered for pistol constantly gums up both my Dillon and Hornady measures. No other powder I have ever used has given me 1/10th the problems. (the Hornady has rifle meter installed but the Dillon meters for pistol only).

The finished ammo shoots with very good accuracy (powderpuff load) but now I'm a bit nervous with those HK pictures fresh in my mind.

Time for me to work up another TiteGroup load I guess.

Skylerbone
June 17, 2010, 10:18 AM
MO, I wouldn't go extending OAL if I were you. Two reasons: shorter seating depth can and does often INCREASE pressure though we generally expect a decrease. Secondly, if any of those KBs were caused by firing out of battery there's an increased risk of feed problems if you load long and it may be subtle enough you wouldn't notice.

I think after this batch of bullets I'm done with lead.

bds
June 17, 2010, 10:34 AM
I've recently bought a glock 22 and have a lone wolf replacement barrel on the way.
Smart move if you plan on doing a lot of lead bullet shooting. :D


i noticed Hodgdon doesnt posted any lead data for the 40S&W so I emailed them. Here was their response :

"We do not recommend the use of lead bullets in the 40. Our lab testing shows that lead bullets tend to deliver higher than desired pressures in this cartridge. "

So, now I'm thinking if thats Hodgdons response, I will simply not use their powders.
Hodgon also own Winchester and IMR, and I would not eliminate their powders from my inventory because of their "corporate/legal" response.

I have used W231/HP38 for reloading lead bullets in my G22/G27 using LW barrels with good results. If I can't find lead load data for a particular powder, I normally start 10% below the "Start Charge" for jacketed load data and work up towards the mid range charge load data to find accurate loads that reliably cycle the slide.

I also bought a box of 500 Missouri Bullet 170gr LSWC.
If you don't find load data for 170 gr, you should be fine using 180 gr load data for the lighter bullet. I shoot MBC 180 gr TCFP and found them to be accurate and consistent. Although I get very little leading in the LW barrels, I found WD40 to be effective for softening lead deposits in barrels for cleaning (I let it soak for 5-10 minutes).

mohunter55
June 17, 2010, 02:05 PM
just to clarify, I was not going to boycott hodgdons....well only for 40s&w since they wont supply data. I pretty much use Hodgdons powders for all my other reloading since they provide data for lead bullets in other calibers. I plan to use Accurate and also Ramshot now. I'm headed to Cabelas tonight to pick up some different powders. I already have AA#7. I think i'll pick up one of the following: AA#5, AA#9, True Blue, or Silhouete. Any suggestions? Accurate/Ramshot does a good job of providing Lead .40s&w data and also answering questions...Johan, their reloading tech guy is the man.

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