Hi-Point Firearms


PDA






XxWINxX94
June 19, 2010, 01:52 AM
Hello everyone,
Was reading my monthly American Rifleman magazine and saw an ad for this company. I've never heard of them, or seen any of their products. I looked them up at http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/ and checked out some of their stuff. It looks like they have Autoloader pistols and carbines. They're prices seem cheap, and they claim to be American made.

Anyone own, have an expirence with, or know about Hi-Point firearms?
Just curious!

If you enjoyed reading about "Hi-Point Firearms" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Chopdoktor
June 19, 2010, 01:58 AM
You just opened up a huge can of worms, haha. Gun snobs just love to hate Hi-Point, and more than half of the time, I'd say they're justified. I've owned a few of their pistols, and let me say, you get what you pay for. They are heavy, ugly (in my opinion), and some jam like it's all they were made for. BUT some function great, they come with lifetime warranties, the price is cheap, and I hear that the carbine is actually a great shooter, in spite of the quality of the pistols. I've personally owned the .45 and the 9mm. Both were accurate, but were extremely inconsistent in reliability. I'll stick to my gun-snob approved Kimber and Beretta, if I wish to throw some .45acp and 9mm down at a target. Take my advice as a previous owner: Save the $$$ and buy something a thousand times nicer at only twice the price. But as I said, some people really love them.

w_houle
June 19, 2010, 02:48 AM
I'll stick to my gun-snob approved Kimber and Beretta
LOL, Yeah... Lotsa luck with that :scrutiny: :p

Don't waste your time with the .380. Actually, make that any .380.

There's a slowly building aftermarket for them: At first it was just holsters, then triggers, stocks, grips, magazines, et c.. People are going to start accumulating money, and are going to start getting sentimental about those bricks that got them to the range to shoot, and they are going to want to upgrade. So expanding the market for parts isn't much of a stretch.

Hammerhead6814
June 19, 2010, 02:59 AM
Wow. Can-O-Worms doesn't do it justice, but as of right now those lucky enough to own a $1000+ Gold Cup (Insert Manufacturer and Model here) haven't posted yet.

Online you'll read countless stories, all by the same guys, about how much they hate Hi-Points. That being said, on the range I've yet to hear the same thing. Everyone who paid under $200 for a pistol or around $200 or the carbines and takes them to the range loves them. Cheap and fun to shoot.

If anything ever goes wrong with a Hi-Point, Hi-Point Firearms has a lifetime guarantee on all of their products. Send it back, and if they can't fix it they'll send you a new one.

With value like that I can't imagine who wouldn't own one just for the fun.

wgaynor
June 19, 2010, 03:31 AM
I've put over 1,000 rounds of freloads through mine with only one failure to feed. I'm impressed. Keep in mind that there is a break in period. Many who have problems with them fail to follow the proper break procedure that is written in the manual and/or have problems and instead of fixing it (usually a feeding problem that is due to the magazine needing some adjustment) easily, they just complain loudly.

friscolatchi
June 19, 2010, 03:31 AM
What do you think, can you put Kel-tek in the same category as Hi point? Or just one step up. I have the sub 2000 in 9mm. very functional and utilitarian.

hemiram
June 19, 2010, 03:34 AM
There's one of the 9mm carbines at a local store in the used rack that I kind of want to buy, but I haven't seen any aftermarket or factory hi cap mags. 10 rounds isn't going to make it for me. The ideal 9mm rifle solution would be either a Beretta CX4 or a Kel Tech that takes beretta mags, as I have a bunch of 15 and 17 round mags already.


I'm probably going to end up with one of the .22 assault type rifles, just due to the cheap ammo. The Sig 522 looks like it will be the one.

Quiet
June 19, 2010, 05:27 AM
My $0.02 on Hi-Point Firearms...

They are ugly, have horrible trigger pulls and seem to have lots of felt recoil.
But, they work and are very inexpensive.

OkieOFT
June 19, 2010, 05:29 AM
I've owned one for about a year, and I love it (995 Rifle). Shoots like a dream. Strangely enough, the only jams i've ever had were when I bragged about it at the range. Sure enough, right after singing it's praises the next mag would jam at least once. After that it'll go back to shooting flawlessly until the next time I brag about it. It even remembers, I tried switching to shooting my 10/22 and then came back to it...Shot one mag, jammed once, and never again.

10 rounds is just right for me. Keeps my 50 round boxes nice and even. Hell, I only load 5 rounds at a time when shooting it anyways.

I keep mine loaded for HD/pest control. Would trust my life to it anyday. As long as I haven't bragged about beforehand, that is.

CajunBass
June 19, 2010, 05:47 AM
I've had one, a C-9, 9mm, for about six years or so. I got it about the time I got my CC permit. I haven't shot it in ages, but when I first got it, I was determined to see just how bad it was. Ammo was fairly cheap then, and I was working steady, so I put about 2,000 rounds through that silly thing before I got bored with it and quit. I had a total of six malfunctions (jams) in that time. Four of those came out of one box of reloaded ammo, so I blamed the ammo. FMJ and HP, it didn't care. It just worked.

Some people say they're hard to field stip for cleaning. Field strip? You're kidding? I cleaned it with a can of WD-40, or Break-Free and a paper towel and a Q-tip. It just chugged along.

How does it compare to a Kel-Tec? Well, I had a Kel-Tec P-11, 9mm back then too. It's not quite apples to oranges, but they are different. The KT is better made, but cost about twice as much, so I'd expect it to be. The KT is a smaller and lighter. The KT was harder to shoot, and not as much fun to shoot. The KT's longer trigger, heavier D/A trigger, and it's short sight radius, made it harder, and the light weight made it kick a lot more. My arm would actually tingle after more than 50 rounds with the P-11. The big heavy C-9 High Point on the other hand didn't bother me at all. I could shoot it about as well as I can any other 9mm handgun.

The KT is long gone. Traded off for something I wanted more. The Hi-Point isn't worth enough to bother to trade, so it's still here, still in it's cardboard box, looking no worse for wear. I figure if the blue helmets or the zombies ever come, I'll pass it out to somebody as we make our last stand. :D

Hunterdad
June 19, 2010, 08:52 AM
I have the 995 carbine and it is a sweet little gun. I put a red dot on it and its deadly out to 75 yards. I have a buddy who has the C9 and he loves it.

merlinfire
June 19, 2010, 09:34 AM
For the price they're hard to beat. I wouldn't trust my life to them, but for plinking and pest control, I'd say they would do fine.

The no-questions-asked lifetime warranty is pretty nice too. I don't know if any other company does that...

Just don't expect it to become a collector's item

dusty14u
June 19, 2010, 09:39 AM
I bought a C9 years ago before I had any other pistols. I hunted and had long guns, but no pistols. I was out of work after a heart surgery with no income coming in and needed protection in a small easily handled package. The C9 filled the bill quite well. After getting on my feet afterwards I have been able to purchase much more expensive pistols ,which has relegated the C9 to the safe for the most part. It was reliable and accurate and I had no issues with it.

I shot it with a good friend who was a retired Marine Major. He loved it and so I will probably give it to him the next time I visit. We went through several hundred rounds in one session with no problems and he has since called to see what brand and model it was.

I really like their carbines as well and would purchase one with no hesitation if the price was right.

killchain
June 19, 2010, 09:45 AM
Hahaha.

Spend the extra $100 and buy a better firearm.

If you're looking cheap and works, look at a Kel-Tec.

And don't listen to the Kimber kids. They're just mad because their $1400 1911's aren't broken in yet, after 35,000 rounds. :neener:

Chopdoktor
June 19, 2010, 11:27 AM
These guys pretty much sum it all up, as I said in my first post: They have many cons, but a few pros that simply make them worth the low cost. I have nothing against cheap guns, though. I have a Kel-Tec P11 and I love it. I paid 250 new for it, and with the MecGar 12 rnd magazines, a mini-hogue rubber grip and a pinkie mag extension, they are very nice to shoot. I don't know if a few of the Kimber jabs were at me, but I traded a custom Ruger 10/22 and 100 bucks for my Kimber Custom II 1911, and after 600 rounds, I've still had no malfunctions (what break in? haha)... even if I do ever get some, it's not like I have much invested; pretty much the same attitude a guy has to buy a Hi-Point with.

merlinfire
June 19, 2010, 11:46 AM
Right. A high-point is a fine gun, but a lot of people look at guns as a dual item. Its a gun and an investment. For a lot of guns that's true. Hi point guns are just guns. But, they're good for the price.

mustang_steve
June 19, 2010, 12:26 PM
Here's the thing: when you buy a cheap pistol, there's going to be the chance you'll have to "buff" out some problems.

Of course you could have done like I did with my Sccy, and ended up with an excellent shooter.

As far as hi-points go....yes there's lots of Zamak (die-cast zinc alloy), and I do mean a lot of it, however due to how heavily built the Zamak parts are, they're durable. The pistol is not meant to be taken apart, just used and sent in under warranty as needed (and their warranty, like all teh low-buck makers, is no questions asked).

Really, for a person that needs a good home defense pistol....buy one, run the typical "new gun" 2-3 boxes of FMJ through it, if it likes it, run 50 rds of your home defense ammo through it to verify proper function with that ammo, then load it up and keep it in the nightstand's lockbox. IMo they're too darn heavy to carry on the person.

heron
June 19, 2010, 12:59 PM
I have no experience with their pistols, but I do have a 995TS, and it's quickly becoming my favorite gun. It's accurate, and just fun to shoot; very reliable. Sights are very nice, and I like the balance and handling. Yeah, the trigger is weird. Front sight block may need aligned (and it will anyway once you disassemble the gun). Hard to disassemble, but they don't recommend you do it often anyway. I got mine for $250+ new. I had a cheapo red dot on mine, but took it off; I shoot better with the irons now. I replaced the front sight with a fiber optic that I fabricated at home and I like it a lot.

If I had to guess at Hi-Point's design philosophy, I'd say, "Cheap and reliable."

BrownTrout
June 19, 2010, 01:13 PM
I have a 995 carbine. I put the ATI stock on it and a Simmons red dot.
Gun: $150
Stock: $64
red dot: $24
Not a bad little setup for the investment. Loads of fun shooting.
Also, there are extended mags available. I got 2 15-rounders from Promag. They say they won't work with the ATI stock, but you've just got to take the plastic down about 1/8-inch on the corners.

Prince Yamato
June 19, 2010, 05:10 PM
I think the best way to sum up Hi-Point guns is: "They Work".

It's a gun at its most basic; a functional tool. You know when you run into the hardware store because you need "a hammer" and you don't really care what kind of hammer it is, so long as it's cheap and works? Well, the Hi-Point is that hammer. It gets the job done for a low price.

Cards81fan
June 19, 2010, 05:44 PM
I have heard they have excellent customer service to go along with that lifetime warranty, which applies anyone (not just the original owner).

W.E.G.
June 19, 2010, 05:50 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/humor/kimber.gif

outlander0129
June 19, 2010, 05:54 PM
I own a 9MM Hi-Point and have put a little over a thousand rounds through it with no problems. I love it. I do have to admit it is ugly looking, but ugly isn't the business end. It shoots, it hits the target and I can't complain. I plan on getting the .45 version real soon.

BTR
June 19, 2010, 06:08 PM
I tried one at the range, belonging to a friend. It malfunctioned several times. They are hideous, and are made with lots of zinc. They don't make them out of zinc because it a quality metal, but because it is CHEAP. Seriously you can do better. Look for a decent used pistol for a little more.

KodiakBeer
June 19, 2010, 06:08 PM
For the same money, there are a dozen or more Soviet Block pistols that are far more reliable, durable, concealable and ergonomic.

REAPER4206969
June 19, 2010, 06:17 PM
Kel-Tec is not in anyway comparable to Hi-Point. I'm offended at the very suggestion.

JTH
June 19, 2010, 06:35 PM
I have the 9mm carbine w/the original stock. The rifle is butt ugly but works well. The recoil is surprisingly hard for a 9mm, The new generation carbine has
a more tactical looking stock utilizes a spring piston to absorb the recoil. Will be intersting to see if they come out with the .45 caiber carbine in August, They fill a niche as maybe a backup rifle or varmint rifle. I've had it from almost when they hit the market, so I guess 7-8 years. I paid $125 NIB.
JT

Col. Plink
June 19, 2010, 06:43 PM
I have the pistol/carbine combo in .40s&w, the carbine is tops and the pistol is good. I have to make sure to fully rack the slide or risk feed-ramp jams. It's finish is not very grippy though.

LOVE the carbine w/ a 4x scope.

The Lone Haranguer
June 19, 2010, 09:49 PM
I shot a 9mm carbine and it put a magazineful of bullets where I wanted them to go with no malfunctions. If I needed a gun and only had $150-$190 (for the .45), I would buy a Hi-Point without hesitation. I paid nearly five times that for a handgun that still malfunctioned and broke, so I might as well save the money. :p

jojo200517
June 19, 2010, 11:37 PM
I think the best way to sum up Hi-Point guns is: "They Work".

It's a gun at its most basic; a functional tool. You know when you run into the hardware store because you need "a hammer" and you don't really care what kind of hammer it is, so long as it's cheap and works? Well, the Hi-Point is that hammer. It gets the job done for a low price.

Sweet next time i'm in my hardware store i'll pick up a hammer and a Hi-Point (yes my hardware store also sales guns and has Hi-Points) :D

I have shot other peoples .40 and .380 caliber Hi-Point pistols, and they were accurate and decent shooters. The .380 model had some ejection issues but it wasn't horrid.

I have heard nothing but good stuff about the carbines, except for the lack of hi cap mags. I'm still patiently waiting on the .45 ACP carbine to hit the shelf.

XxWINxX94
June 20, 2010, 12:52 AM
thanks for the input everyone.

What I get from this thread:
A Hi-Point firearm is a cheap gun that works alright.
Sounds good! Might get one if I ever need another "beater" gun.

Mustang6502
June 20, 2010, 10:00 AM
Don't have any experience with the pistols but I do own a 995TS carbine in 9mm. It's a smooth shooter at 100 yards. Haven't tried it at longer ranges, but I'm glad I bought one. Straight shooter, no jams, low recoil. Great little short range carbine .

winchester '97
June 20, 2010, 02:40 PM
In short, they used to be utter crap, and now are reliable and fairly accurate, especially the .45, but they are still ugly as sin. But they have about the best customer service out there, they are what they are, a bare bones entry level handgun that does what it has to and absolutely nothing more. The carbines are a totally different animal, solid and extremely reliable, and more than a few people hunt deer with the .40 caliber ones, really nice little guns for the money, though still ugly as sin.

Don't listen to the gun snobs, its an okay handgun, but you can do a whole lot better, especially in military surplus handguns. The .45 cal high point also seems to be much more accurate and popular then the others.

winchester '97
June 20, 2010, 02:55 PM
In short, they used to be utter crap, and now are reliable and fairly accurate, especially the .45, but they are still ugly as sin. But they have about the best customer service out there, they are what they are, a bare bones entry level handgun that does what it has to and absolutely nothing more. The carbines are a totally different animal, solid and extremely reliable, and more than a few people hunt deer with the .40 caliber ones, really nice little guns for the money, though still ugly as sin.

Don't listen to the gun snobs, its an okay handgun, but you can do a whole lot better, especially in military surplus handguns. The .45 cal high point also seems to be much more accurate and popular then the others.

Kwanger
June 20, 2010, 02:58 PM
Cheap and ugly, but they work.

Haifisch
June 20, 2010, 03:17 PM
Life is too short to mess with cheap firearms.
I'll never waste my money on a "High Point" :barf:

DFW1911
June 20, 2010, 03:36 PM
There's one of the 9mm carbines at a local store in the used rack that I kind of want to buy, but I haven't seen any aftermarket or factory hi cap mags. 10 rounds isn't going to make it for me.

Me too.

wgaynor
June 20, 2010, 04:07 PM
Haifisch,

While your comment may at first sound witty, I fail to see the logic in it. Do you care to give an explanation of what you are talking about? It is flawed in several different ways.

1. By what comparison do you consider a cheap firearm?
2. Is the value of a gun correlated directly with it's function?
3. Where does your experience come from?

While I agree that the HiPoint is an affordable gun, I ask everyone, what is wrong with that? I think it is awesome that I don't have to save up for a long time to buy one, go in debt over it, or take away from my priorities to be a gun owning American.

I think that HiPoints fill a niche in America that is understated, that being a firearm that is affordable, even if you're laid off from work or underemployed.

ilbob
June 20, 2010, 04:11 PM
I have the 45. Its heavy and ugly, has a horrid trigger pull, and terrible safety. no hold open or slide release lever.

But it goes bang every time and is a lot of fun to shoot.

I wish they would come out with the 45 carbine they have been promising for a couple years.

Haifisch
June 20, 2010, 04:28 PM
Haifisch,

While your comment may at first sound witty, I fail to see the logic in it. Do you care to give an explanation of what you are talking about? It is flawed in several different ways.

1. By what comparison do you consider a cheap firearm?
2. Is the value of a gun correlated directly with it's function?
3. Where does your experience come from?

While I agree that the HiPoint is an affordable gun, I ask everyone, what is wrong with that? I think it is awesome that I don't have to save up for a long time to buy one, go in debt over it, or take away from my priorities to be a gun owning American.

I think that HiPoints fill a niche in America that is understated, that being a firearm that is affordable, even if you're laid off from work or underemployed.

My Cousin made the mistake of buying a "High Point" .45 just because it was affordable. The pistol is pure junk.
I dont compromise when it comes to the safety and protection of my family.

racine
June 20, 2010, 04:40 PM
Each to his own. If that's all you can afford then get it. Exercise your freedoms. Nothing is 100% and the hi point name is like an oxymoron to many. I can't fault anyone for what they shoot but this would be my very last choice-if I really didn't have a choice. :evil:

BamAlmighty
June 20, 2010, 05:36 PM
If you're poor & broke and just gotta have a gun... I guess a gun is better than no gun, Hi Point is there for you.

Col. Plink
June 20, 2010, 11:34 PM
Haters: what part of 'the carbines are fantastic' escapes you?

wgaynor
June 21, 2010, 01:31 AM
"My Cousin made the mistake of buying a "High Point" .45 just because it was affordable. The pistol is pure junk.
I dont compromise when it comes to the safety and protection of my family."

Wow...that could have been very easily remedied by utilizing their customer service. I think that his laziness to fix the problem properly shouldn't affect your opinion on the product, but hey, it's a free country.

For the record though, no product is ever made perfect. BUT at least Hi Point is not afraid to back it up with a no questions asked warranty. He should have sent it back and fixed it on the spot.

Go ahead and keep bashing. more power to ya.

Zanad
June 21, 2010, 10:21 PM
if only they had hi cap mags that worked for
the carbines....

BHP FAN
June 21, 2010, 10:51 PM
I used to be a ''snob'', but one of my buddies showed up with one,and you know what?it went bang every time,and hit what I was pointing at when he insisted I shoot the thing before passing judgment,and while I, personally would just buy a PA63, for a $100.00 gun, I have to admit,it's American and it [I]works!

OkieOFT
June 21, 2010, 11:40 PM
I hope you elitests have plenty of cash, because the next best thing after a H 995 carbine is the Beretta, and even then, it's not all that much better. I'll keep my cash and spend the money on ammo, thank you very much. Because it doesn't matter which trigger i'm pulling, they're all going to go into the same place. Don't even get me started on the fugly ass Kel-Tec, I wouldn't own one of those if they gave it to me. I'd take it and trade it for a Hi Point or SKS as soon as I could.

Why are hi cap mags such a big thing? I for one am glad it only has 10 round mags. And they make 15 rounders if it's really that damn important.

It's pretty funny that 99% of the people that have shot them love them, but the people that swear they would never have one probably have never even shot one. One local gun store with a snob owner finally started selling them because he got so many requests for them. Shame he tries to sell them for $80 more than the other shop in town.

Hell, I love mine so much i'm in the market for a second one to put in the ATI stock. Only problem is, they apparently don't drop in value, because the used ones here are selling for the same price I paid for my 995 Classic new.

Robert
June 22, 2010, 12:29 AM
The carbines are decent little guns if you are into pistol caliber carbines. I am not. As far as their pistols go I like my weapons made out of something more substantial than zinc. Some people love the them. I do not. If this makes me a snob then I am the poorest snob in the world. I only have one pistol, my Colt 1911 I inherited when my dad died. Even so, I would never buy a High Point. If given the choice between a High Point and a sharp stick I will take the stick. The stick is lighter and feels more balanced in my hand.

John Wayne
June 22, 2010, 12:45 AM
I've had good experiences with the pistols and carbines. I've found them to be reliable and more accurate than you'd expect.

Clunky and ugly but cheap, American-made, and carry a lifetime warranty. Customer service is said to be better than some top end brands.

The only other option you have in that price range is an 1895 Nagant revolver or some pot-metal .25 Auto (raven, jenkins, lorcin...etc). Of those options the Hi-Point is the best choice. For not much more money, you can get a Tokarev, Makarov clone, or something else a bit more refined.

Hi Point pistols --cheaper than conversion barrels :D

Justin
June 22, 2010, 01:39 AM
If you can't tell the difference between a quality made modern pistol like a Glock or M&P and a High Point, you may as well save yourself a couple of hudred bucks and buy the High Point.

wriggly
June 22, 2010, 03:21 AM
I have a 995 TS carbine with over 2000 rounds through it, and no jams. As for higher capacity magazines, Magpul makes 15 rounders for them. A word of caution though, they are real thumbusters to load. I use an Uplula and then they are no problem and function perfectly.

ccsniper
June 22, 2010, 04:20 AM
I guess now is as a good a time as any to post my torture test of a .40 cal Hi point JC. It is an older pistol that is all metal.

I put 500 rounds through it in one day. I dropped the mags in sand and water and only had one FTF out of the 500 rounds. That gun just worked the whole day, even if the groups it got were the size of a basketball at 10 yards. Ammo used was a mix of reloads, wolf, American Eagle, and PMC garbage (I HATE PMC).

Did it do it in stile? No. Did it cost me more than 100 bucks? No. Did it function all day? Yes. Will it work as a defensive firearm? In my mind, YES. I plan on buying several of each caliber and doing a proper torture test to each, like dropping the gun in sand (not just the mag) and putting a thousand rounds through each just as fast as I can load mags.

I dropped the mags in sand and water and only had on FTF out of the 500 rounds.

yes, I know, not much of a torture test. More like function test I guess.

evan price
June 22, 2010, 05:08 AM
If you can't tell the difference between a quality made modern pistol like a Glock or M&P and a High Point, you may as well save yourself a couple of hudred bucks and buy the High Point

That's a pretty facetious and disingenuous post there, Mr. Moderator.

It's not about telling the difference. Any idiot can tell the difference. It's about what gun can you use to protect your family if you don't have the money for a Glock or an M&P.

The first rule of a gunfight is "Bring a gun."

If the choice is HiPoint or nothing, HiPoint wins.

Back in the bad old days when they were called "Stallard Arms" their pistols had often questionable durability.

High Point Firearms re-invented the company and made pistols that work. Then they made carbines that work.

The ergonomics suck, and they won't win a beauty contest, and they are large, bulky, relatively low-capacity for their size, but they shoot, and shoot well. I can't think of a better tacklebox or under-the-truck-seat gun for about $100.

They are made in Ohio from American-made parts by American craftsmen and their warranty is 100% lifetime no questions asked. And they usually include a free magazine or two whenever they work on your firearm and return it.

CajunBass
June 22, 2010, 08:21 AM
If you can't tell the difference between a quality made modern pistol like a Glock or M&P and a High Point, you may as well save yourself a couple of hudred bucks and buy the High Point.

Sure I can tell the difference. I've got several of the "better" guns. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate a Hi-Point for what it is. Saying my Hi-Point works doesn't take anything away from my Colts, Smith & Wessons, and so on.

Haifisch
June 22, 2010, 09:25 AM
I would rather own one Quality pistol, than a dozen High Points.

allin
June 22, 2010, 10:23 AM
I have a Hi Point C9, and several other guns made by various manufacturers. I enjoy shooting my C9 and take it to the range with me every time I go. It shoots well and has proven to be be reliable and accurate. I am not totally fond of the fact that I have to use a metal punch to take it down for a complete cleaning, but other than that - no complaints. All most all of my other guns are more traditional and better looking in the eyes of the shooting community, but the slab sidded appearence of the Hi Point has kinda grown on me. I also really like the fact that it is 100% American made. Owning a lot of different makes and types of guns gives me the perspective that liking one doesn't detract from any of the others. Really want to start something and open a can of worms? Start a thread with a simple question. "What is the best gun to buy"? Just guessing but I would bet that would be a never ending arguement.

Roswell_Kid
June 22, 2010, 11:28 AM
If the choice is HiPoint or nothing, HiPoint wins.

Agreed. And they do function, and as a friend tells me from first hand experience the claims about good customer support are factual. So, OP, if budget is a central concern, and if product fit and finish leaning more toward Mattel than Mercedes is of little concern, why not?

I was going to check one out myself in a hardware store once, but was physically repelled by the powerful Waves of Ugliness. :D

flyinrob
June 22, 2010, 01:04 PM
I hear good things about the carbines and the general gun-snob complaints about the pistols.

Haifisch
June 22, 2010, 01:12 PM
Agreed. And they do function, and as a friend tells me from first hand experience the claims about good customer support are factual. So, OP, if budget is a central concern, and if product fit and finish leaning more toward Mattel than Mercedes is of little concern, why not?

I was going to check one out myself in a hardware store once, but was physically repelled by the powerful Waves of Ugliness. :D

Was the hardware store selling them for Boat Anchors ?

JTH
June 22, 2010, 01:20 PM
Haifisch,
Yeah the Hi Point rifles are butt ugly especially the first generation Plain Jane composite stock carbines. 100% warranted, even if you're the 5th owner. One thing you can't argue though is, if you were shot by one of these in the head you'd still be dead:what:
JT

w_houle
June 22, 2010, 01:25 PM
I would rather own one quality pistol, than a dozen Hi Points.

Let's see... at a minimum of $100 each: I hope you can buy a nice pistol with $1200, and maybe up to $2250 depending.

ultradoc
June 22, 2010, 01:34 PM
one word...yuck

VegasAR15
June 22, 2010, 01:41 PM
They make my Glocks look like works of art.

mljdeckard
June 22, 2010, 01:45 PM
They work. The ones I shot chewed through a box of ammo.

So what's the catch? Why are they so cheap? Because they are over-engineered blowback operated nutcrackers. This means a chunk of a slide that is about twice as heavy as other pistols to keep the thing shut until the bullet leaves the barrel.

allin
June 22, 2010, 01:53 PM
My Cousin made the mistake of buying a "High Point" .45 just because it was affordable. The pistol is pure junk.
I dont compromise when it comes to the safety and protection of my family.
Hi

Yeah I see your point. My cousin's brother's uncle, once dated a girl whose father bought a Hi Point and used it for a boat anchor. The poor man was killed when the gun went off at the bottom of the lake and due to cheap craftsmanship the trigger guard blew off, deflected off a dead carp and blew a hole through the bottom of his boat. He couldn't swim and drowned! It took days to clean up the debris in the lake and get the poor man ready for viewing by his friends and family. The time lag was due to a local ordinance which required all of the volunteers in the rescue and clean up details to be able to prove that they either owned or seriously intended to buy firearms with a MSRP of $700.00 or more. Based on that episode I would not ever advise using a Hi Point as a boat anchor, way too dangerous in my estimation! I do shoot mine regularly but I try to stay very far away from boats, marinas, and water hazards of all sorts. I am tempted to see what might happen if I tried using my S&W or Taurus as an anchor? Anyone out there have any experience with that? Oh yeah, I also heard about a guy who got seriously hurt when he took his boat anchor to the local range and tried getting good groups throwing the anchor 25 yards downrange, but that's another story.

jkulysses
June 22, 2010, 01:54 PM
I would rather own one Quality pistol, than a dozen High Points.
Ya but you could hide a dozen Hi Points through out your house and vehicles and be prepared every where or just have one and hope it's on you when you need it.

Mitch from LA
June 22, 2010, 01:55 PM
Not sure why some people feel the need to dump on Hi Point. They seem to get positive reviews and work well. Plus they are backed by an outstanding warranty. They are not my cup of tea but I can't think of anything negative to say about them.

Haifisch
June 22, 2010, 02:22 PM
Ya but you could hide a dozen Hi Points through out your house and vehicles and be prepared every where or just have one and hope it's on you when you need it.


Having those ugly things laying around the house would scare off all of the rodents and insects...

I guess a High Point might be good for something after all.

Mitch from LA
June 22, 2010, 02:24 PM
Its that sort of witty repartee that makes your argument so convincing.

Justin
June 22, 2010, 02:32 PM
That's a pretty facetious and disingenuous post there, Mr. Moderator.

It's neither, really. I've seen plenty of posts from High Point fans talking about how their guns are just as good, or better than, firearms made from reputable manufacturers.

It's not about telling the difference. Any idiot can tell the difference. It's about what gun can you use to protect your family if you don't have the money for a Glock or an M&P.

The average price of a defensive handgun is not outside of the financial grasp of even most people who are in the lower income brackets. Glocks, XDs, and many other models can be had on the secondary market, often times for less than $400. If you have to spend less than that, Makarovs, TT-33s, and S&W or Ruger revolvers can be had for under $300.

Even when I was making just a bit over minimum wage, I was able to squirrel away enough money to buy a CZ-75 Compact. Yes, it took longer to save up for it, but I recognized that it would be better to buy a firearm of reasonable quality than something made from pot metal.

The first rule of a gunfight is "Bring a gun."

cliche.

If the choice is HiPoint or nothing, HiPoint wins.

Except that the choice isn't "Hi-Point or nothing." Even on an extremely limited budget, there's a plethora of choices available. They may require you to do some leg work by checking to see what's on the used gun shelf at the local store, or ordering the gun from a place like Summit Gun Broker (http://www.summitgunbroker.com), but the upshot is that you end up with a better defensive sidearm.


Back in the bad old days when they were called "Stallard Arms" their pistols had often questionable durability.

Evidently they still do, judging by the many people who rave about the customer service they receive after sending the firearm back to get it fixed.

High Point Firearms re-invented the company and made pistols that work. Then they made carbines that work.

They make cheap firearms out of inferior materials that utilize an operating system that is incredibly sub-optimal for handling the pressures generated by rounds like 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP.

It's no surprise that the guns actually function with hardball ammo. A straight blowback system handling those cartridges generates rather excessive amounts of pressure.

The ergonomics suck, and they won't win a beauty contest, and they are large, bulky, relatively low-capacity for their size, but they shoot, and shoot well. I can't think of a better tacklebox or under-the-truck-seat gun for about $100.

If the main selling point for your tackle box or truck gun is "If it gets lost or so corroded I can no longer use it, it's no big deal because I'm only out $140" then yes, you have a point.

They are made in Ohio from American-made parts by American craftsmen and their warranty is 100% lifetime no questions asked. And they usually include a free magazine or two whenever they work on your firearm and return it.

And that's fine, I suppose.

Haifisch
June 22, 2010, 02:40 PM
You Hi Point Lovers just got OWNED !! :D

ccsniper
June 22, 2010, 03:16 PM
You Hi Point Lovers just got OWNED !!

Not really, actually not at all. One man brought forth his OPINION on firearms. We all do it. My OPINION is that Hi Points are decent enough to be used in a defensive situation if that particular need ever arises. I have put enough rounds through mine to tell you it is reliable albeit not very accurate (basketball size groups at 30 feet).

That is my OPINION. Fact is I have only had one malfunction with my Hi Point and I can't shoot a CZ for crap, I limp wrist it too much. That is a plus for the Hi Point cause it is much harder to limp wrist a brick that uses Blowback action. Now, If I ever had to sell my gun collection for any reason I KNOW that I could go to a local flea market and pick up a Hi Point for 50 bucks, cause I did.



Quote:
Back in the bad old days when they were called "Stallard Arms" their pistols had often questionable durability.
Evidently they still do, judging by the many people who rave about the customer service they receive after sending the firearm back to get it fixed.

Evidently they still do, judging by the many people who rave about the customer service they receive after sending the firearm back to get it fixed.


Most people when they buy a firearm that has a no questions asked lifetime warranty most likely send it in just for a checkup if they bought it used. I did. I sent it in on a Monday and had it back by Thursday. There wasn't anything wrong with the pistol, I just decided to send it in cause I could. I got my gun back with a whole new spring kit and new magazine. I just wanted them to look it over.

VegasAR15
June 22, 2010, 03:28 PM
They are made in Ohio from American-made parts by American craftsmen

Maybe its just me, but some guy putting together Hi Points being called a craftsman is kind of like a garbage man calling himself a 'sanitation engineer.'

Robert
June 22, 2010, 06:07 PM
One thing you can't argue though is, if you were shot by one of these in the head you'd still be dead
Same can be said for a baseball. That does not mean it is a good weapon.

No one ever said that one should not be able to defend them self. And if all you can afford is a High Point then by all means get one. Something is better than nothing. No one is saying that you have to carry a Wilson Combat or use a Korth in order to defend yourself, just that there are much better options out there. I am poor by pretty much any definition but I will save my money for a M&P.
They are made in Ohio from American-made parts by American craftsmen
Craftsmanship? Really?

I have put enough rounds through mine to tell you it is reliable albeit not very accurate (basketball size groups at 30 feet).
That is horrendous accuracy. I want more accuracy than that out of a firearm. And if that is the best it can achieve then I have found myself a new paper weight.

Justin
June 22, 2010, 06:10 PM
Not really, actually not at all. One man brought forth his OPINION on firearms. We all do it. My OPINION is that Hi Points are decent enough to be used in a defensive situation if that particular need ever arises. I have put enough rounds through mine to tell you it is reliable albeit not very accurate (basketball size groups at 30 feet).

Basketball-sized groups at 30 feet are unacceptable for a handgun.

Certainly we can all agree that one need not have the accuracy of, say, an Olympic Free Pistol for defensive applications, but basketball-sized groups at 30 feet?

I mean, the defensive trainer Rob Pincus has stated (iirc) that a baseball-sized group at ten yards or so is perfectly acceptable for a self-defense gun. But basketball-sized?

Holy cow.

ccsniper
June 22, 2010, 06:25 PM
Basketball-sized groups at 30 feet are unacceptable for a handgun.

I agree, but if I HAD no other choice I know that inside my house I could use it as a defensive weapon. I think this thread is way off topic anyway and am unsubbing.

Haifisch
June 22, 2010, 06:31 PM
Owned again. :D

Justin
June 22, 2010, 06:43 PM
I agree, but if I HAD no other choice...

Yes, well, thankfully we don't live in a universe where Hi-Point is the only firearms maker.

Mitch from LA
June 22, 2010, 06:57 PM
In my humble experience poor accuracy is a function of the shooter rather than the gun. Interesting side note those smiling faces are signaling the decline of Western Civilization, along with MTV.

allin
June 22, 2010, 07:23 PM
Well, it appears that the 2nd person to post here was correct in saying that a can of worms was being opened! It really doesn't matter what someone else decides to buy and use. I get a lot more satisfaction shooting what I want as opposed to ranting on blogs. Maybe that actually validates some people? Heard a pretty cool song recently on the Margaritaville station about a guy who was kick butt on the internet and pretty much of a wimp in reality. Evidently he follows this thread:)

Robert
June 22, 2010, 08:03 PM
I can promise you my post count will never, ever come close to my round count.

Justin
June 22, 2010, 08:05 PM
I get a lot more satisfaction shooting what I want as opposed to ranting on blogs. Maybe that actually validates some people? Heard a pretty cool song recently on the Margaritaville station about a guy who was kick butt on the internet and pretty much of a wimp in reality. Evidently he follows this thread


Out of sheer curiosity, to whom are you referring?

stchman
June 22, 2010, 08:20 PM
I have never shot a Hi-Point pistol. Ihave heard many negative things about them so I would probably stay away from them unless you get the pistol for say $50.

I think Hi-Point 9mm pistols are around $160.

For $300 you can get a Ruger P95 (blued version) and they have rock solid reputations. The stainless P95 is $320 over at Bud's Gun Shop.

IMO spend a few extra $$$$ and get something with a reliable reputation. You don't need to spend $600 or more to get that. Heck I have even seen police turn in Glocks for about $350 at Cabela's.

wgaynor
June 22, 2010, 09:54 PM
I think that there are too many people here that just like to argue.

I really don't care if people like it or not. I LIKE IT. That's enough for me. I don't need other's opinions or antidotes. My personal experience is enough for me. Keep on hating on the gun. The only thing you'll do is drive down the prices and keep them cheap for me to buy.

Col. Plink
June 23, 2010, 01:59 AM
I got a HiPoint 40 pistol because I liked the carbine so much. It seems to be plenty accurate and no problems as long as I rack the slide completely. The finish makes that a little hard to do, other than that I have no complaints for it. For the record I have lots of experience with XD's and CZ-52's.

The carbine is beyond reproach, even with no consideration of price.
Get one; find out how much fun you've been missing.

Lou McGopher
June 23, 2010, 02:03 AM
By now, you should have gathered they are ugly. Even people who love them will readily admit that. They are heavy for their size.
But they are as reliable as any other pistol, and their accuracy is respectable.

Some people may tell you to save up and get something else... and that's fine, if you can do that. But if your gun budget is tight and $200-300 (or less) is all you can afford, there's no reason to feel bad about getting a Hi-Point.

evan price
June 23, 2010, 03:08 AM
The average price of a defensive handgun is not outside of the financial grasp of even most people who are in the lower income brackets. Glocks, XDs, and many other models can be had on the secondary market, often times for less than $400. If you have to spend less than that, Makarovs, TT-33s, and S&W or Ruger revolvers can be had for under $300.

Even when I was making just a bit over minimum wage, I was able to squirrel away enough money to buy a CZ-75 Compact. Yes, it took longer to save up for it, but I recognized that it would be better to buy a firearm of reasonable quality than something made from pot metal.

I admire your industrious and thrifty ways.
Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who do not have the ability.
I know of several folks who can barely afford to replace a flat tire on their only vehicle and drive on the donut spare instead for weeks while they scrape up $25 to visit the used tire store. Try supporting a family on $8 an hour and see how much money is left over to buy a gun.
As a matter of fact, I have helped co-workers out. I jst tonight dropped off extra used tires I had to two different co-workers who needed some and couldn't afford any.
You speak of "less than $400" or "less than $300" as if that sort of money is easily found by getting the loose change from under the couch cushions. Try to think of "less than $100" and imagine finding something to fit THAT budget that's not a Ring of Fire gun.

A friend of mine wound up with a PA64 because it was cheap, bought used, the seller threw in a mag worth of rusty ammo. He couldn't afford more ammo so I gave him a box of 9x18 to get him by.

I'm sorry I can't protect my family now- I have to recycle pop cans for another 9 months to be allowed to purchase a worthy firearm.
Or, buy the High Point now, save a year, and trade off the High Point and some more cash for something better.



If the choice is HiPoint or nothing, HiPoint wins.

Except that the choice isn't "Hi-Point or nothing." Even on an extremely limited budget, there's a plethora of choices available. They may require you to do some leg work by checking to see what's on the used gun shelf at the local store, or ordering the gun from a place like Summit Gun Broker, but the upshot is that you end up with a better defensive sidearm.


See above- there's a large difference in a $120 High Point and a good used $350 police-trade Glock.

ArfinGreebly
June 23, 2010, 03:32 AM
My son owns a Hi Point C-9 pistol.

I gave it to him to get him started in firearms.

He shoots with an unorthodox style, but he hits those things at which he shoots. Coke bottles out to 40 feet. One handed. One particular afternoon, we took his pistol and three of mine out to the range, and he out-shot me using his C-9 while I used the XD-40 and a PT911 in 9mm. I didn't beat him until I switched to the Ruger Mk2 pistol. I tried his C-9 and found I could hit coke bottles out to 30 feet. His pistol has had no failures.

Now, all of that having been said . . .

I won't buy another one, given any choice in the matter.

I bought my wife a PT111 Pro, a smaller, lighter pistol with more capacity, a locked breech action, and a self resetting DA trigger. It's cleaner, has a better fit and finish, is completely reliable, and I shoot it better. No, it's not as cheap as the C-9, but the extra $150 was certainly well spent.

The PT911 cost another couple hundred bucks, but has 50% more capacity than the C-9, a better trigger, better balance, in a package about the same size and weight. It will reliably punch a 2-inch hole at 30 feet.

And then there's the little Kahr P9. Holy cow. It cost more than our other 9mm pistols, just about the same as the XD-40 but, despite the light weight, short sight radius, and small grip, I shoot this pistol better than all the other service caliber pistols I have. That runs completely counter to what I would have thought. Light pistols are supposed to have more "felt recoil" but that's not how it works out with the P9.

Could I defend myself with a C-9? Yeah, I could do that. Wouldn't be my first choice, but yeah.

Could I carry one? Pretty much not. That pistol was never designed for CCW. I met a guy carrying one in a shoulder rig. Amusing, and not awfully practical.

The more I come in contact with quality, the less inclined I am to "save money" on things like the C-9.

I'll wait the extra weeks or months while my piggy bank fattens.

Maybe some day I'll buy a case of C-9s just to keep around in case I have to arm the neighbors. Hey, you never know when someone will declare Armageddon.

For myself, though, I'll spend the extra cash. Mr. Piggy Bank and I want to see how the CZ 75B stacks up.

dpetty121263
June 23, 2010, 06:41 AM
I have 4 Hi-Point's plus a number of top of the line named pistols (Ruger and S&W) and they are just as accurate as the higher priced ones. All this negitive talk about them is from folks who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with any weapon. Quick story a while back at the range a man just down from me was shooting a 9mm Hi Point and was griping he couldn't hit the target and was going to throw it away, he spoke loud enough for me to hear and I offered him $100 for the gun and of course he jumped on it, we did the transaction and while standing there I put 4 out of 6 near the bullseye, he was pissed. BTW I did my CCW class with a Hi Point 9mm and scored well.

Robert
June 23, 2010, 10:56 AM
All this negitive talk about them is from folks who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with any weapon.
Any time you'd like to come shoot the Tactical Rifle Match at Pueblo West or an IPSC match at Whistling Pines I'd be happy to show you just how much of that barn I can really hit. I may not be a Grand Master but I can hit what I am aiming at from here to 400y irons or optics.

Justin
June 23, 2010, 11:57 AM
All this negitive (sic) talk about them is from folks who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with any weapon.

That's a mighty big assumption to be making there.

wgaynor
June 23, 2010, 02:13 PM
"All this negitive (sic) talk about them is from folks who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with any weapon."

While that may be a mighty big assumption, it is based upon the same amount of facts that many have posted their anti-hi-point comments.

Hi-Points are affordable weapons. You load the magazine, chamber a round, and pull the trigger. It works. If you have problems, do what you would with any other firearm...ask around about how to fix it and do it.

While it may not be in the same category as some top end and top dollar weapons, it still functions and is a tool that was made for a specific purpose. If it didn't function properly and was as poorly constructed as many of you have stated, the free market principals would have either caused them to go out of business or ask for a bailout many years ago.

John Wayne
June 23, 2010, 02:43 PM
If your budget actually required you to settle for something as cheap as a Hi-Point, I can't think of any other option in the price range that works as well.

Yes, Ruger P-series are $300, ComBloc guns are $200, but that's still $60-$160 more than a Hi-Point pistol. If you make $5.15 an hour and are self sufficient (i.e., not making $5.15 an hour and living with your parents), that $60 can easily mean the difference between not being able to afford a gun and being able to arm yourself. Not everyone has the time to hunt out a great deal on a used gun, sometimes you have to go with what's available.

The only thing I can think of that's cheaper than a HI Point and readily available is a Nagant revolver--but even then the cost evens out once you factor in the cost of a $35 box of ammo.

Are Hi Point pistols the best choice for every application? No.
Do they all work flawlessly? Probably not.
If you can afford a more refined gun, should you get that instead? Yes.


Here's what it really comes down to: if you only have $150 for a gun and box of ammo, are you better off not having a gun, or having a Hi Point? Even if it only works for three shots, it's better than nothing.

Rail Driver
June 23, 2010, 02:50 PM
For what it's worth, my first handgun was a used hi-point c9. It was heavy, bulky, and ugly... but it went bang every time. I never had a ftf or fte. It ate WWB and Blazer with equal ferocity. Recoil was minimal.

I eventually traded it off for a PA-63 (9x18) but it treated me well while it was mine, and I doubt it's failed yet or will any time soon.

saturno_v
June 23, 2010, 02:53 PM
Few points for the moderator

The average price of a defensive handgun is not outside of the financial grasp of even most people who are in the lower income brackets. Glocks, XDs, and many other models can be had on the secondary market, often times for less than $400. If you have to spend less than that, Makarovs, TT-33s, and S&W or Ruger revolvers can be had for under $300.

Even when I was making just a bit over minimum wage, I was able to squirrel away enough money to buy a CZ-75 Compact. Yes, it took longer to save up for it, but I recognized that it would be better to buy a firearm of reasonable quality than something made from pot metal.


For some people working on a minimum wage with a family fo feed squirreling away an extra $100-150 it is indeed a problem...just a dose of reality here...

Yes, if you want to carry your pistol, I would definitely get a Makarov over a Hi-Point (Eastern Europe surplus pistols are the only hadguns matching HP price point...nowadays, around here even beaten up S&W revolvers are starting to command prices well north of $300) but with a HP you get a brand new firearm with warranty.....but if you take the used HP route, then nothing can match the price (not unusual for used Hi-Point to be sold for $50)

The Hi-Points I saw at the range were capable to shoot (even in my hands :D) way tighter groups than basketball size at well over 30 feet.....

Evidently they still do, judging by the many people who rave about the customer service they receive after sending the firearm back to get it fixed.


By the same logic, many people rave about Kimber CS (and customers are ok the they are told that after 300 rounds their pistol still need to "break in")...so what's your point?? :rolleyes:

On the customer service aspect, I would take a Hi-Point any time over an EAA product....

They make cheap firearms out of inferior materials that utilize an operating system that is incredibly sub-optimal for handling the pressures generated by rounds like 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP.

It's no surprise that the guns actually function with hardball ammo. A straight blowback system handling those cartridges generates rather excessive amounts of pressure.



Yes the slide is made of Zamak, however did you ever see the size of that thing?? What about the weight?? You can seriously use them as flatorion to press your clothes.

They seems quite capable of handling the pressure of the cartridges they fire and they are explicitly +P rated (even some high price manufacturers do not go that far).

They are cheap because of their primitive trigger and safety system, basic blowback design, cheap materials for slide and frame and basically non-existing finishing.

They are incredibly unbalanced and, basically, impossible to carry. Saying that they are ugly it is an huge understatement.

Do I own one?? Definitely not....Would I buy one even as fun piece?? Not a chance....but they do work and they go bang every time you squeeze the trigger...they are not for an individual even remotely interested in guns...but they are good as a nightstand firearm for a cash strapped family on a very tight budget living in a rough neighbourhood...in that regard they work as well as any Les Baer...

Kudos to Hi-Point for making reliable, albeit primitive, firearms backed by probably the best warranty and CS in the industry, where previous attempts (Lorcin, Jennings, Jimenez, Cobra, etc...) produced only unreliable pure junk backed by "you are on your own" customer service.

tkopp
June 23, 2010, 03:03 PM
A former coworker of mine picked up a used c9 for $60. Last weekend I took him out to the range and showed him a number of firearms, as well as making sure he knew how to keep his shots on target with the C9.

At 10y, his group (first time shooter) was around six inches. My group with the same gun at 10y was two inches.

The rear sight is fully adjustable for windage and elevation, which I dislike in a defensive pistol but understand. Looser tolerances means you can just make the sight adjustable and let the user correct as necessary. In a hundred and fifty rounds, we had no jams nor failures to fire of any kind.

The firearm *did* noticably snap more than I'd expect from a 9mm pistol, probably due to the direct blowback design and extra weight in the slide. I can't imagine the .45 pistol would be any fun to shoot.

Honestly, they're not bad pistols. They're not pretty, but for a first-time shooter I'd recommend one above a tokarev simply because cleaning is simplified and you can find ammo anywhere. The lifetime no-questions-asked warrantee is also a heck of a value. There are certainly better pistols out there, and any 'gun person' will spend the extra money on a better-made pistol, but the high point has its niche and is perfectly adequate to fill it.

For home defense values though, it's hard to beat the 12ga pump gun. You can get a cheap new (or well-made used) one for under $200. I tried to sell my friend on one, but he's happy with his high point.

mikana
June 23, 2010, 03:57 PM
If you've never shot one, please let us know. It goes to your credibility, in this thread and others, that you would categorically comment without first hand knowledge.

Here's what some impartial people have actually shot them had to say:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/

http://www.mouseguns.com/hipoint/myhpc9.htm

http://www.themartialist.com/0604/hipoint.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/HiPoint-9mmCarbine.htm

Personally, I really like my carbine and wouldn't hesitate to buy the 9mm pistol if I needed one.

Robert
June 23, 2010, 04:23 PM
Ok everyone pay attention:
IF YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOUR SELF AND THIS IS ALL YOU CAN AFFORD THEN BUY ONE, AS SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING.

I live on a very limited budget, and am in fact behind on a few bills, but I would never buy a Hi- Point. If you love your Hi-Point then that is awesome. A person should love their firearms or what is the point of having them? However, please do not try and tell me that it is anywhere near as good as a S&W M&P. Yes, they are built like tanks because it takes a lot of pot metal to stand up to the operating pressures of a centerfire cartridge.

I am not trying to deride High Point owners at all. And again if a Hi-Point is all you can afford then, buy it, learn to use it and become proficient with it. A Hi-Point is a cheaply made firearm that may go bang every time. It does that job well. If that is all you need or want then you will never be disappointed. I want more. We can agree to disagree.

Justin
June 23, 2010, 04:26 PM
Yes the slide is made of Zamak, however did you ever see the size of that thing?? What about the weight?? You can seriously use them as flatorion to press your clothes.

They seems quite capable of handling the pressure of the cartridges they fire and they are explicitly +P rated (even some high price manufacturers do not go that far).

This is exactly what I mean when pointing out that Hi-Points use a sub-optimal operating system for the cartridges they're chambered in. By using a straight blow-back method of operation, the gun is required to have a ridiculously outsized and overly-heavy slide to keep the thing from catastrophically failing.

They are cheap because of their primitive trigger and safety system, basic blowback design, cheap materials for slide and frame and basically non-existing finishing.

In other words, compared to other defensive handguns, Hi-Points are inferior in every way but price.

They are incredibly unbalanced and, basically, impossible to carry. Saying that they are ugly it is an huge understatement.

One of the only advantages that handguns have over long guns is that they're much easier to carry or conceal. A handgun that is so ungainly it's difficult to carry has a reduced level of utility to the end user.

Do I own one?? Definitely not....Would I buy one even as fun piece?? Not a chance....but they do work and they go bang every time you squeeze the trigger...

In this day and age, praising a gun for "going bang every time you pull the trigger" is the equivalent of raving about how awesome your car is because it comes with an electric starter.

they are not for an individual even remotely interested in guns...but they are good as a nightstand firearm for a cash strapped family on a very tight budget living in a rough neighbourhood...in that regard they work as well as any Les Baer...

Ok, if you make minimum wage, have a family to take care of, and live in a crime-ridden neighborhood a Hi-Point may very well be a reasonable choice. Of course, if you shop around, you could just get a pump-action 12 gauge, which will be a much better home defense choice, defensive ammunition far more powerful than pistol ammo is available at much less of a cost, and shotguns are much easier to use for people who may not have the resources to effectively employ a handgun in a defensive encounter.


Kudos to Hi-Point for making reliable, albeit primitive, firearms backed by probably the best warranty and CS in the industry, where previous attempt (Lorcin, Jennings, Jimenez, Cobra) produced only unreliable pure junk backed by "you are on your own" customer service.

I can't really argue with that, I suppose.

saturno_v
June 23, 2010, 04:28 PM
... it is anywhere near as good as a S&W M&P.

Nobody said that.

If I have to choose between:

1) paying my bills and with whatever left, withotu any debt, buying an Hi-Point because ti is all i can afford and

2) Not paying my bills and buying a SIG (possibly on debt)

I would choose option 1 any time of the day...

Robert
June 23, 2010, 04:41 PM
If I have to choose between:

1) paying my bills and with whatever left, withotu any debt, buying an Hi-Point because ti is all i can afford and

2) Not paying my bills and buying a SIG (possibly on debt)

I would choose option 1 any time of the day...
Ok everyone pay attention:
IF YOU HAVE TO DEFEND YOUR SELF AND THIS IS ALL YOU CAN AFFORD THEN BUY ONE, AS SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING.



Quote:
... it is anywhere near as good as a S&W M&P.
Nobody said that.
Not in so many words no. But the over arching theme, at lease in my perception, is just that. Hi-Points are just as good as any other defensive pistol, and I must disagree with that argument.

saturno_v
June 23, 2010, 04:50 PM
Not in so many words no. But the over arching theme, it lease in my perception, is just that. Hi- Points are just as good as any other defensive pistol, and I must disagree with that argument.

In some circumstances the are as good.

- As nightstand gun they are.

- As plinking fun at beer cans they are basically equivalent too.


You basically cannot carry them, they probably cannot withstand intense military/service/constant shooting use, you cannot use them even for informal shooting competition with your buddies to the range and they are extremely ugly to look at (no collecting value/appeal).

So except for the first two points they are definitely not as good as a S&W, Glock, SIG, etc...but that is not their target market....

Zack
June 23, 2010, 04:52 PM
Hi-point is a gun it should go BANG when you pull trigger, I would not bet my life on it BUT it is a GUN and I would use it for fun gun range/fun gun.


If the zombies came I would use it because it is A GUN!

saturno_v
June 23, 2010, 05:07 PM
Justin

In other words, compared to other defensive handguns, Hi-Points are inferior in every way but price.


Nobody said otherwise....but Hi-Points have their niche market and do a good job in that...other manufacturer's products are not their intended market....not even Kel-Tec which offers different products on every level.

One of the only advantages that handguns have over long guns is that they're much easier to carry or conceal. A handgun that is so ungainly it's difficult to carry has a reduced level of utility to the end user.


It is still smaller and easier to carry than a long weapon.....in that regard (carryability) my 8 3/8" S&W Model 29 (or even any other 6" 357 Mag revolver) does not score more points than a HP

In this day and age, praising a gun for "going bang every time you pull the trigger" is the equivalent of raving about how awesome your car is because it comes with an electric starter.



That is still the very primary purpose of a firearm (and I would add, "sending the pill in the right direction with a decent level of accuracy").
I can praise a basic no frills Toyota Echo or an old VW bug for what they are (basic reliable transportation) but I would never compare them to a Lexus...

Of course, if you shop around, you could just get a pump-action 12 gauge, which will be a much better home defense choice, defensive ammunition far more powerful than pistol ammo is available at much less of a cost, and shotguns are much easier to use for people who may not have the resources to effectively employ a handgun in a defensive encounter.


I cannot disagree with that but sometimes you run into space constraints (especially modest homes/condos) and a longer firearm can be more difficult to manouver around, especially for untrained people.....and, again, I do not know about your area, but here a cheap pump shottie (even a Mossberg 500) very used but functional lately can go for over $150......you can get an HP used for probably $50 or $60
However in order to comfortably buy a used firearm you need some level of familiarity with them (otherwise you could end up getting the proverbial lemon) and I suspect a big chunk of Hi-Point intended audience is not firearm savvy....and a brand new 12 gauge pump shotgun is significantly more expensive than an HP pistol.

rondog
June 23, 2010, 05:26 PM
I'm not even going to read through all this, I get so tired of reading hate comments about High Points. If a person doesn't like them, that person shouldn't buy one.

All I can say is, I have a .40 carbine and bought a 9mm carbine for my grandson, both equipped with cheapo BSA red-dots. Their sole purpose in my arsenal is for plinking fun, and they deliver! Accurate and reliable. Need more than 10 rounds? Buy more magazines.

FWIW - I wouldn't hesitate to use either of them in an emergency, except they're not kept loaded and accessible. That's the job of the 1911 and the M1 carbine.

JTH
June 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
You have wealthy members that think their high end weapons are the best made and they are probably right. I believe that these people's weapons are are an extension of their D**KS and egos, so they have to belittle posters to make them feel better about themselves. It's enough to make some newbs to THR, leave and not come back, when they are just trying to learn and maybe create some good topics to discuss. You guys know exactly who you are!! :cuss: Has anyone seen a $50/$60 Hi-Point, please let me know.
JT

Robert
June 23, 2010, 07:03 PM
You have wealthy members
More than once I have stated that I am anything but wealthy. Do I have to post my bank statement or the numerous over draft fees I have this week to satisfy you?
I believe that these people's weapons are are an extension of their D**KS and egos, so they have to belittle posters to make them feel better about themselves.
Personal attacks, veiled or overt are not THR.

Larry Ashcraft
June 23, 2010, 07:04 PM
This has gotten circular and now is devolving into insults.

Closed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Hi-Point Firearms" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!