Front sight: bad advice


PDA






MachIVshooter
June 20, 2010, 01:01 PM
I just emailed them, detailing why I, and I believe most who train, disagree with 9 out of 10 of their "correct answers" in this quiz (http://www.frontsight.com/landingpg-1.asp?).

I'd like to hear what others think. I believe they are doing a disservice, offering personal preferences as general advice.

My email to them was the following:

As a long time shooter, collector, hunter and trainer, I have to disagree with the "correct" answers to your online quiz, and will add that providing such misleading information, citing highly subjective criteria as logic, is doing a disservice to those who wish to become proficient vis a vis self defense with a firearm. I will elaborate:

1) Which of the following handguns would you consider the best for general self defense?

You suggest that a Glock pistol is the best, citing it's simplicity as the primary reason. This defies logic when the extremely simple double action revolver ranks fourth on your list. Even the best autoloading pistols are inherently less reliable and more complicated to operate than a quality double action revolver. With a DA wheelgun, there is no worry of jams requiring some rap-tap-bang mantra, and no question of whether or not a round is chambered. Load and pull the trigger, the gun will fire. Dud round? No problem, pull the trigger again. It just doesn't get any simpler than that. Hence, the double action revolver is, without question, the best general purpose defensive handgun-especially for those who do not train regularly.

2) Which gun would you consider the best for immediate general home defense?

While your expanded answer of "whatever gun is in your hand at the time" is sound advice, you have once again touted the Glock. Fact is that any handgun is a poor choice for self defense when there is a long gun option, as there is in the home. Generally speaking, the shotgun is best. And no, not because of the "horribly intimidating sound of being racked"; The reason is that one round of 12 gauge 2-3/4" #4 buck from a cylinder bore scattergun at 7 yards will put 27 holes in the intruder in a 6"-8" pattern, and is less likely to exit the structure and endanger innocent people than any common handgun round. As well, the 5.56mm NATO, even with ball ammunition, is more effective and still less likely to exit a dwelling than a handgun bullet. In short, if a person can use a shotgun or 5.56mm rifle for defense, they should. Control, and therefore hits, are just plain more easily accomplished with a long arm.

3) What method do you consider the best for everyday carrying of a concealed handgun?

The answer you offer for this question happens to be my usual method of carry, but that does not necessarily make it the best. Mode of carry is highly subjective, absolutely dependent on the gun, the person, the attire and the situation. The correct answer is whatever method a person is most comfortable with that properly conceals the weapon and that they have trained to draw from.

4) On a new defensive handgun, fresh out of the box that seems to be shooting a few inches low at 10 yards, what do you feel is most likely causing the low shots?

There is not a single right answer to this question. Yes, often times it is the shooter pulling the shots down. But just as often, it is that the gun is either sighted at a different distance, sighted in with a different bullet weight, or both. Correcting this condition is done on a case by case basis.

5) What should you do if you are “Cross Dominant” and shooting a handgun?

Your quiz suggests closing the non-dominant eye. I cannot stress how DEAD WRONG that approach is. Defensive handgunning is done with BOTH EYES OPEN! If you close one, you give up peripheral vision and depth perception, both of which are important in a dynamic situation involving firing a gun at a live threat.

6) What will tend to improve your accuracy with a handgun the most?

Whatever your “3 secrets” are, at this point, I’m not inclined to believe that they offer much help. The correct answer to this question is practice using correct methods, adapted slightly to suit the individual. We start with a modified weaver stance and stress trigger control and front sight focus, later transitioning to one-handed firing from less-than-ideal positions, hip shooting, etc., since a defensive situation is unlikely to offer time to pull into a practiced position used on a normal range.

7) What will make you less likely to ever have to use lethal force to defend yourself or your family?

•A. Being alert and aware of your surroundings
•B. Being mentally prepared to defend yourself
•C. Being armed with your gun
•D. Being skilled with your gun
•All of the above

Well, we at least agree on one thing


8) What handgun would you recommend for a woman who wants to protect herself?

Once again, you recommend the Glock. And once again, I disagree strongly. Unless she finds it particularly uncomfortable, a small double action (S&W J frame, usually) is the best choice, especially if she does not practice often. Small autoloaders are even more prone to inherent and user-induced malfunctions than a service sized auto. The DA revolver does not care if it is not handled with authority (limp wristed); it will fire when the trigger is pulled every time.

9) What do you feel is the best handgun caliber for general self defense?

Guess what? We disagree again. The .45 ACP is a good cartridge. However, it can be difficult to control in a compact defensive handgun, and all the horsepower in the world doesn’t matter if one misses the target, or the gun jams do to impotent handling of the recoil. From a strictly terminal ballistic standpoint, I also disagree, with both the 10mm and .357 Magnum offering substantially better performance than the venerable .45. And, of course, all common handgun cartridges are comparatively ineffective.

The correct answer to this question is the cartridge that the user can control from the least stable/comfortable firing position (for example, one handed and with the body off kilter). For many shooters, this nixes the heavier recoiling cartridges.

10) What do you feel is the standard response in using a defensive handgun when you must shoot to defend your life?

Your quiz gives the correct answer as “With a major caliber handgun, two quick hits to the thoracic cavity”. While not bad advice, per se, we teach to shoot for center mass until the threat ceases to be a threat. That may mean a single poor hit to the leg or some such, or it could mean emptying the magazine into the torso. Stop shooting when the threat ceases is the correct answer.

If you enjoyed reading about "Front sight: bad advice" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
gfpd707
June 20, 2010, 01:08 PM
I took the quiz but didnt want to get spammed so I didnt give my email.

MachIVshooter
June 20, 2010, 01:11 PM
I took the quiz but didnt want to get spammed so I didnt give my email.

For others who feel the same, here is a link to their answer page:

http://www.frontsight.com/store/freedvd.aspx?quiz=true

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 20, 2010, 01:12 PM
You should realize that the entire point of this quiz is to get you to submit your email address to them so you can get can a fantastic free gift and regular emails from patriot millionaire Dr. Ignatius Piazza.

deadin
June 20, 2010, 01:12 PM
Thanks for posting their "answers".:rolleyes:
I'm with you, the only one I agreed with was #7. (I didn't necessarily agree with all of yours either, but we all have different views...;)

Just remember that Front Sights main purpose of the quiz is to get your email address so they can bombard you with drivel to get you to spend your money. (That's why I refused to "apply" for my score.:neener:)

dakotasin
June 20, 2010, 01:14 PM
there doesn't appear to be many truly right or wrong answers.

however, i'm not giving him/them my name and contact info so i could see my score, so i don't have any idea how well/poorly i did on the quiz.

MachIVshooter
June 20, 2010, 01:19 PM
I didn't necessarily agree with all of yours either, but we all have different views.

Very true. And that is why, in general, I leave my advice to people in the forum of self defense much more open to individual interpretation based on needs and available options.

These folks have definitely drank the Glock Kool-aid, and are trying to force it down other peoples throats. They also seem to be of the cult who believe that handguns are front line combat weapons, rather than a last resort before knives and fists.

You should realize that the entire point of this quiz is to get you to submit your email address to them so you can get can a fantastic free gift and regular emails from patriot millionaire Dr. Ignatius Piazza

I do. Doesn't change the fact that they should not be propogating such nonsense. It's a Sunday morning, and I feel that calling them on their BS is more constructive than watching TV. I don't feel like mowing the lawn just yet.

rainbowbob
June 20, 2010, 01:30 PM
You should realize that the entire point of this quiz is to get you to submit your email address to them so you can get can a fantastic free gift and regular emails from patriot millionaire Dr. Ignatius Piazza.


What Jorg said. I didn't agree with their "answers" either, but found myself inundated with their crappy email alerts and offers until I realized what a come-on the whole deal was/is and unsubscribed.

The Lone Haranguer
June 20, 2010, 01:36 PM
I can attest to the e-mail onslaught. :rolleyes: Their marketing and sales practices are offputting to me. They may well provide good training, but you have to wade through a lot of BS to get to it.

Sam1911
June 20, 2010, 01:41 PM
I feel that calling them on their BS is more constructive than watching TV

If you feel like correcting things that are ill-advised about that organization ... well ... you could set your sights a bit higher than their quiz. ;)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=164834
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=429290
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=143885
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=501239
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460267
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=460707
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=475055

And so on...

For a more general view, google (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=front+sight+scam&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CdlIveFIeTIiVFYuugATnu7y-CgAAAKoEBU_QGijG&fp=d2eda4910a7445ea) has a LOT to share...

Some people have gone and been really impressed. Pays to know what you're getting into, though. Caveat Shooter!

ants
June 20, 2010, 01:58 PM
I would never give them my email address.
That's why I gave them yours. :p Just kidding.

I shot several IPSC matches (and a USPSA 3-gun) with some of the instructors at Front Sight. I cannot judge their employer, but the instructors are top quality people. Not just good shooters, but good people. It would be great to take a course from them under an assumed name to avoid the rest of the FS sales hassle.

Gryffydd
June 20, 2010, 02:00 PM
When you want to get an email but don't want to deal with the spam just use this site:
http://mailinator.com/
How do I create an account at Mailinator? It's simple, you just send email to it. Temporary accounts are created when email arrives for them. First, you give out the mailinator email address you created, and then you check it. It's that simple.

Do I have to sign up? No sign-up, you don't even have to tell Mailinator you're coming.

What email address should I use? Anything you want! You can be bipper@mailinator.com, pinkystinky@mailinator.com, or if you're a 16-25 year old male you can be bigdaddy@mailinator.com. Just make sure your "anything" is followed by @mailinator.com (or one of our alternate domains list on the left of this page).

torotoro
June 20, 2010, 02:03 PM
I also took the quiz but did not want to get spammed. I also thought the "three secrets" was too lame.

Balrog
June 20, 2010, 02:17 PM
I disagree that the DA revolver is the best personal defense handgun. I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me, and when a revolver jams, you have to take the gun apart which requires tools, so you are totally out of the game. While semi autos jam more frequently, they generally jam less catastrophically and generally can be unjammed in a matter of seconds.

I love Glocks, but any semi auto that is generally reliable would be preferable to a revolver, in my opinion.

I also think some of the worst advice you can give a woman (or anyone who shoots infrequently) is to use a J frame. I have daughters who can handle a 1911 or Glock just fine and shoot well with them. The J frames are light and short barrelled, are hard to control, and are harder to shoot accurately.

MachIVshooter
June 20, 2010, 02:46 PM
I disagree that the DA revolver is the best personal defense handgun. I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me, and when a revolver jams, you have to take the gun apart which requires tools, so you are totally out of the game. While semi autos jam more frequently, they generally jam less catastrophically and generally can be unjammed in a matter of seconds.

The gun you are most proficient and comfortable with is always the best choice.

However......

Anything can break. Semi-auto's are not immune. The frequency with which a quality revolver will have a part breakage resulting in gun failure is far, far lower than the likelihood of an autoloader jam.

I can think of exactly two times when I had a revolver quit working on the range, and one was 100% my fault (not enough crimp on heavy .454 casull loads, bullet jumped crimp and bound the cylinder). The other was a cracked forcing cone on a Ruger security-six. The gun still fired all six, but the cylinder had to be whacked on the bench to open. I could have reloaded and forced it closed, but why?

I generally carry auto's for defense, primarily because they lay flatter. But I only have a couple that have never jammed, and it's a matter of time before they do. Usually it's not a big deal to get them back into operation, but seconds count in a defensive situation. I've also had them jam up badly enough that they required tools to get running again. Ever dealt with a case head separation? You can do clearing drills all day long, but barring sheer luck of the case half extracting because it stuck on the bullet of a subsequent round, you're done until you can dig it out with a pick or some such. And, of course, I've had parts break in auto's, too. Extractors snapping off is just one common example of an autoloader parts breakage that renders the gun inop.

It is the sheer simplicity and reliability of the DA wheelgun that gives it top marks as a general purpose defensive tool.

I also think some of the worst advice you can give a woman (or anyone who shoots infrequently) is to use a J frame. I have daughters who can handle a 1911 or Glock just fine and shoot well with them. The J frames are light and short barrelled, are hard to control, and are harder to shoot accurately.

Can your daughter lean over to where she's almost falling and fire 3 or 4 rounds one-handed from that 1911 without a jam? Defensive shootings are close range; Anyone with a modicum of practice can hit COM of a silhouette at 5 yards consistently with a DAO J-frame. And once again, it will not malfunction from poor recoil management.

There is nothing wrong with a semi for defense, and that is generally my choice. But they require more practice to be proficient. A DA revolver is just as simple as it comes. No safeties, no question of whether a round is chambered if the gun is loaded and, except for the extremely rare occurance of a true breakage, they will fire when the trigger is pulled.

deadin
June 20, 2010, 02:53 PM
The J frames are light and short barrelled, are hard to control, and are harder to shoot accurately.

This is true of any small lightweight gun, revolver or semi-auto.

If I were to ever convince my wife to carry in her purse, it would have to be a airweight something. She is always complaining that her purse is "Too Heavy". (Usually just when we are doing out the door and already late.)
She will then root around in it and dump mabe 4 or 5 quarters, several nickles and a few pennies, and say "That's better" and we're on our way.:banghead:

KBintheSLC
June 20, 2010, 02:56 PM
Hard to take it too seriously coming from a school run by a chiropractor who constantly insists that everyone refer to him as "doctor" Piazza. I am glad that my attendance at FS was free.

Deanimator
June 20, 2010, 03:03 PM
I took the quiz but didnt want to get spammed so I didnt give my email.
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/5327.gif
"And we have a winner!"

R.W.Dale
June 20, 2010, 03:10 PM
Is that Freddie Mercury?

Balrog
June 20, 2010, 03:11 PM
Can your daughter lean over to where she's almost falling and fire 3 or 4 rounds one-handed from that 1911 without a jam?

No, probably not. But I doubt she could hit much with the J frame either. For every point you make about the revolver, there is an equally valid counter-point. I don't see the need to belabor us all with further examples, unless you would like to.

I just think so much of this is personal preference.

Bubba613
June 20, 2010, 03:37 PM
Somehow I doubt you're going to get them to see things your way. Just a feeling, I guess.
Yes, the questions are highly subjective. I suspect we will all disagree on many of them, based on experiences etc.

Erik M
June 20, 2010, 03:45 PM
they dislike glocks for everything, i agree. they also seem to think a double action J frame is the end all be all of any gun u would need in any situation, i question that.

MachIVshooter
June 20, 2010, 04:23 PM
they dislike glocks for everything, i agree. they also seem to think a double action J frame is the end all be all of any gun u would need in any situation, i question that

That is 180 degrees from what they say.

They are 100% pro Glock, and seem to hate DA revolvers.

But I doubt she could hit much with the J frame either.

I'm talking about the gun functioning, not accuracy. Point-shooting from an off-kilter stance requires a good deal of practice with any platform. My point is that a wheelgun does not rely on the shooter being able to control it's recoil well to function. Autos do.

Case in point, my little sister is 5'7", 135 pounds, very fit, and a very proficient shooter. She carries a P3AT or PF9, competes with an EAA Witness Match 10mm, Colt Delta 10mm and XD-M .40. She even shoots my Desert Eagle .50. Yet she could not control the Taurus PT-145 I had or my S&W CS-45 well enough one-handed to make it function reliably, even with ball ammo. And that has been the case with nearly every female I've had shoot a subcompact .40, .45. or 10mm (and many featherweight 9mm's or .380's) Shooting 2-handed from a stable postion is one thing; Being able to use your weapon in any situation is another. Sometimes no amount of practice will overcome a person's physical limitations.

For every point you make about the revolver, there is an equally valid counter-point

Enlighten me.

I say again, if someone chooses an auto for SD, that's fine. I do. But it should be understood that more practice is necessary to ensure proficiency with a platform that depends more on the shooter for proper function and is more prone to malfunction based on the fact that it depends on both mechanics and physics to operate.

EddieNFL
June 20, 2010, 04:34 PM
It's another business pushing a service/product. Why is anyone surprised?

Buck Snort
June 20, 2010, 04:57 PM
Balrog wrote: "I disagree that the DA revolver is the best personal defense handgun. I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me, and when a revolver jams, you have to take the gun apart which requires tools, so you are totally out of the game. While semi autos jam more frequently, they generally jam less catastrophically and generally can be unjammed in a matter of seconds."

Might I suggest the "New York reload"?

Balrog
June 20, 2010, 05:10 PM
Enlighten me.

Well I think you already know what you like, so I don't think I am likely to change your mind. I also think that your choice of a DA revolver is not bad, and you are certainly well armed with that. But just for fun, I will take the same situation you posed earlier, and change it a little.

You asked:

Can your daughter lean over to where she's almost falling and fire 3 or 4 rounds one-handed from that 1911 without a jam?

So I will ask:

Can you lean over to where you are almost falling and fire 7 or 8 rounds one handed from your J frame?

If you can do that, you will have changed my mind, and convinced me that you are correct. But getting 8 rounds one handed out of a J frame is going to make for one slow reload.

In the end, most of this ends up being personal choice, and really I don't think any of the guns we are talking about here are bad choices. I think Front Sight is expressing its opinion as if it is fact, and maybe so are the rest of us.

Bubba613
June 20, 2010, 05:31 PM
I guess the question is, why would you need to?

carbuncle
June 20, 2010, 07:03 PM
Has anyone ever actually taken one of these package deals?

Offers Up His Own Money So YOU Get a Free Handgun
Plus 5 Days of Training and a 30 State Concealed Weapons Permit
For Pennies-on-the-Dollar!

This is Such a Fabulous, Never-Before-Offered By Anyone-In-the-Industry Opportunity (and likely never to be offered again) That I Must First Tell You WHY and HOW I Can Offer You So Much For So Little Otherwise You Simply Will Not Believe It!

Sit down when you read this and be prepared to act on it immediately because I am about to offer to you and the first 5,200 who respond the Absolute Greatest Front Sight Course Package Ever!

(5,200 responding seems like a big number, but not when 3 million people PER WEEK search gun training on the Internet and have the opportunity to click on this page... so DON'T DELAY! In fact, over 5,136 people have already taken advantage of this amazing offer... If you are reading this page, you can still get in. If you leave the page you may never get this offer again!

It just sounds so shyster-y that I would never even consider it...

wishin
June 20, 2010, 08:45 PM
I wonder if the free handgun is a Glock?:rolleyes:

SpamHandler
June 20, 2010, 09:57 PM
I signed up some time ago (and received the requisite spam). Never again.

I wonder if the free handgun is a Glock?
As I recall, they were offering the XD at the time. However this begs the question. If they are so keen on Glocks, why are the providing an inferior (in their estimation) firearm?

bearcreek
June 20, 2010, 10:37 PM
I'd like to hear from someone who has taken a Front Sight course. A friend of mine took the four day handgun last year and loved it. Now, granted, she was not extremely proficient with handguns to start with so she would not have picked up on some of the "deficiencies" mentioned here but it seemed to be very helpful for her. I hope to be taking a course soon, possibly through a future employer who uses their training.

CZ223
June 21, 2010, 08:49 AM
which of course means that they are more opinion than anyting else. Since Front sight is a highly respected training facility, I put some stock in their opinion. Honestly though, it sounds like the OP just really doesn't like Glocks more than anything else.

oldbear
June 21, 2010, 10:08 AM
I made the mistake of filling out their forms and submitting them, and months later I'm still getting SPAM, that I had never received before.

MachIVshooter
June 21, 2010, 05:54 PM
Well I think you already know what you like, so I don't think I am likely to change your mind. I also think that your choice of a DA revolver is not bad, and you are certainly well armed with that. But just for fun, I will take the same situation you posed earlier, and change it a little.

I've already said at least twice in this thread that I typically carry an autoloader. I know what the advantages and drawbacks are for either platform. You're missing my point completely. That point is that a defensive firearm needs to be controllable by it's wielder under the least ideal circumstances, and for many people, especially females with less hand/wrist strength, that puts a lot of autoloaders out of the running.

shockwave
June 21, 2010, 06:12 PM
I HAVE had a DA revolver jam on me

Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

In my years of shooting revolvers, not one problem. Ever. I see problems with autos all the time. But this comment is in response to MachIVshooter:

I agree with your post right down the line. Could have written it myself.

The thing with Piazza's school is something I see with point-shooting clinics all the time: Certain training programs are set up in such a way as to favor Glocks. If your style of defense involves throwing out a wall of 48 rounds with certain reload and clearing procedures, you can build a defense system around a Glock.

Thing is, you can do that for revolvers too. My next purchase is going to be a Ruger SR9c, so I'm not opposed to semi-autos for CCW or SD in general. I think it's wise to have both types of firearm to give you options for handling various kinds of threat pictures. If I had to stick with one gun only, it'd be a revolver for its sheer dependability. Squeeze that trigger, it will go bang.

Also, we discuss caliber here all the time, and the jury has never returned a verdict that .45 acp is best. In my own case, I don't like shooting .45s and prefer .357. In a pinch, I know I'd be better able to defend myself with the round I'm best at shooting. The best round is the one you are able to put on target with confidence.

Thanks for posting the results of that "quiz."

General Geoff
June 21, 2010, 06:23 PM
quiz is full of loaded questions and no selectable answers that are correct.

Balrog
June 21, 2010, 06:24 PM
That point is that a defensive firearm needs to be controllable by it's wielder under the least ideal circumstances, and for many people, especially females with less hand/wrist strength, that puts a lot of autoloaders out of the running.


Yes I agree that is an advantage of revolvers. But I think advantages of the auto still make it a better overall choice, assuming someone has had appropriate practice and training.

EddieNFL
June 21, 2010, 07:12 PM
Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

Ruger Redhawk .357. Either R-P or W-W factory ammo. less than 50 rounds through the gun. Had to use a wooden hammer handle to open the cylinder. No issues with the ammo. Ruger replaced the indexing pawl and star, as I recall.

S&W M15. Broken hammer spring. Maybe a couple thousand rounds.

BaltimoreBoy
June 21, 2010, 07:42 PM
"assuming someone has had appropriate practice and training. "

That is a big assumption. Most folks in this venue probably do.

But when I have shown firearms to total 'virgins' I have always found that they are more at ease with the DA revolver.

They can see how it works.
They can dry fire repeatedly.
They can immediately grasp how it is loaded and how to tell if it is loaded.

That confidence itself translates into a higher likelyhood of success for the beginner or for someone who gets to the range every three years whether they need the practice or not.

A few months ago there was a cute post by a lady, I think in Arizona. She had heard something go crash in the night. She retrieved her DA revolver. Unwisely, she cocked it for single action fire. Turned out the noise was picture falling off the wall and breaking its glass. She realized then that she did not know how to lower the hammer (other than by discharging). She called the police. They came and a curteous officer showed her how.

She probably should have been more familiar with her weapon. And by now she is. But, if it had been a genuine threat, she would have been able to at least attempt to defend herself. Would that be as likely if she had been holding an autoloader? Personally I don't think so.

Balrog
June 21, 2010, 07:44 PM
Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

S&W 686+, probably 4 or 5 yrs old, jammed because the ejector rod got unscrewed a little and locked everything up.

S&W 629, probably 5 yrs old, jammed because the crane somehow got slight bent out of spec, cauing the cylinder to bind.


She probably should have been more familiar with her weapon. And by now she is. But, if it had been a genuine threat, she would have been able to at least attempt to defend herself. Would that be as likely if she had been holding an autoloader? Personally I don't think so.

Well it doesnt matter if she can operate an autoloader or not, since she couldnt even operate her revolver correctly. Maybe she ought to sell the revolver and buy a baseball bat. You certainly dont have to learn how to decock a Glock though. Maybe that is what she needs.

Vonderek
June 21, 2010, 08:15 PM
Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

S&W 442 vintage 1994. Had the cylinder bind up tight as a drum. Maybe after total of 1000 rounds of Winchester 130gr FMJ and maybe 50 rounds of standard pressure 125 gr Federal Nyclad (the old stuff). Could not open nor would trigger depress. Done. Paper weight. Game over. Sent back to S&W for repair...new hand and what else I don't remember. After repair no more problems and is EDC.

S&W 13-2 3" vintage 1972. Bought LNIB. First range session repeat of cylinder lockup. Done again. Don't remember what brand factory ammo. Took home and took apart. Thoroughly cleaned but since it was LNIB was not dirty (no...no crud under star extractor). Reassemmbled and works again. Ghost in the machine. Safe Queen.

Sheepdog1968
June 21, 2010, 08:46 PM
I agree with some of the frontsight answers and disagree with others. I agree with some of yours and disagree on others. The longer you've been shooting and the more training you have, the more likely you have your own opinions. What I like about this "test" is it generates discussions.

Also, for a beginner shooter who doesn't know much of anything, his answers as well as what they teach (I've been out there) provides good advice and good solid training. I may not agree with everything but I don't think he is teaching anything that is too contraversial.

For example, I'm cross eyed dominate. I think it's ok to close one eye. My rational and that which I've heard from some trainers is that in a real defensive situation, you are most likely going to get tunnel vision anyway so don't worry about if you need to close one eye. You likely won't be able to hear your partner standing right next to you. Is this right or wrong or should I keep both eyes open? Its open to debate. For me, I've decided I'm going to close one eye.

Forklift352
June 21, 2010, 08:47 PM
My take...FWIW...Is that the assumption is one WOULD practise because one went
to FrontSight.So with that in mind a person who has Front sight training AND joins
a range AND practise's....a Glock is a fine choice for the reason's stated.

Remember when he was pimp'in his school with a free gun it was an XD.....not a Glock.
So their must be some nugget of truth to his statements.

I dont own a Glock because...well....most people drink the Glock kool-aid.
And I like to be different.

Skylerbone
June 22, 2010, 01:26 PM
OK, I gave my email, got 10 "secrets" from the four-gun master, an offer for a $1300 course that included a FREE $800 XD ($500 local price after mark up), got offers for a $1000 lifetime membership, an offer for a two for one $1500 lifetime membership to share with a family member, another secret: there were not ten but (if I remember right) 21 secrets which I'm still receiving, an offer for "foreclosed" lifetime memberships (people who didn't pay their monthly payments on a membership), warnings that x number of guns are left ACT QUICKLY!

While they may give descent training, the marketing wheel is in full rotation at FrontSight and if I choose in the future to pay for training it will be from somewhere that does not hype themselves in a circus like format.

I'm still waiting for Vince the ShamWow! Guy to show up in DC Piazza's email testimonials.

gym
June 23, 2010, 03:07 PM
I got 100% knowing this is a marketing ploy and means very little other than to get your money. Another guy trying to make a buck.

Nushif
June 23, 2010, 04:38 PM
Every now and then, someone will say this, but details rarely follow. What model? How old? When last serviced? What ammo? What failure?

Ruger LCR, one year old (max), Off the shelf ammo, Failure was dented ammunition that bound up the cylinder.

2000Yards
June 23, 2010, 05:48 PM
I'd like to hear from someone who has taken a Front Sight course. A friend of mine took the four day handgun last year and loved it. Now, granted, she was not extremely proficient with handguns to start with so she would not have picked up on some of the "deficiencies" mentioned here but it seemed to be very helpful for her. I hope to be taking a course soon, possibly through a future employer who uses their training.

I've been there and I'm a member able to take as many of their courses as I want that are in my package (I don't currently recall what it is). Their marketing is very used-car salesmanish (no offense to profesional facilitators (salesman) of pre-owned vehicles intended), but they have some excellent, excellent instructors. Not all of them are so, as with any institution.

I heard all the doom-and-gloom predictors five years ago when I signed up (and indeed those predictions had already been going on for a long time at that point), about how the school would close, so and so in the "community" hated Piazza, lawsuits, land theft, etc. I was able to put that aside because a fairly large contingent of shooters (about a dozen that I know of) in my area attend courses at FS, every year, over and over, and love it. Same with me now.

As to value, I went with a very conservative program (I don't have access to all the courses, but I also paid a lot less for my membership) and I've easily spent under $100/day of training. Of course travel, boarding and ammo I count separately.

2KYDS

Dravur
June 23, 2010, 06:35 PM
Front Sight....

Like Amway, except with Guns!

winchester '97
June 23, 2010, 06:52 PM
So you all are supprised that a guy who has a deal with Glock is pushing their product?

Skylerbone
June 23, 2010, 07:50 PM
He has a deal with Springfield (or at least he gets a volume discount). I wonder how he places his order for 5000 guns in advance and knows what caliber everyone will choose?).

If you enjoyed reading about "Front sight: bad advice" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!