Gun ideas that seem good on paper, but nobody really likes once they come out...


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Balrog
June 20, 2010, 05:20 PM
From time to time a new or novel gun or variation comes out, that seems like a good idea, but it never really catches on, or if you get one and try it, it just doesn't work as good as you though it would...

I would like to hear from people that have examples of this.

One I can think of, for example, would be the scout rifle concept, by the late great Col. Cooper. It seems like a good idea, but it never really caught on too well, and although I have had scout-like rifles, I have never been impressed with them for my needs.

Another is the high-capacity 1911. Seems like it would be nice, but few are made and no one really seems interested in them.

What other examples can you think of?

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rbernie
June 20, 2010, 05:23 PM
How about a single action revolver or proprietary semiauto chambered in 30 Carbine? Neither of those seemed really popular (and anyone who has shot one can tell you why)..

Bubba613
June 20, 2010, 05:23 PM
Seven shot revolver
.32H&R mag
.327 Federal
Any gun that can be made into different configurations or calibers

R.W.Dale
June 20, 2010, 05:32 PM
New cartridges that don't actually DO anything new.

WSSM
WSM
308MRX
30TC
RSAUM
450marlin

the list goes on and on

jnyork
June 20, 2010, 05:34 PM
Crossbow upper for AR15. :what::scrutiny:

Buck Snort
June 20, 2010, 05:39 PM
Seven shot revolver
.32H&R mag
.327 Federal
Any gun that can be made into different configurations or calibers
NO, no Bubba! The title specified guns that nobodly liked when they came out and the .327 mag. is doing OK.

Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
June 20, 2010, 05:47 PM
Crossbow upper for AR15

Yeah I saw that recently.:confused:

Mags
June 20, 2010, 05:48 PM
Guns that are not designed as promised, like the Bushmaster ACR.

ArtP
June 20, 2010, 05:48 PM
Etronix primers....

Remington introduced an electronic ignition system, not too long ago, to eliminate the mechanics and time of the trigger and firing pin. Obviously the gun and primers need to be made for electronic ignition. Never caught on but you can still buy the electronic primers - expensive.

I think it's actually a good idea and don't see why it didn't at least catch on in competitive shooting.

RoostRider
June 20, 2010, 06:43 PM
Caseless ammo....

Rembrandt
June 20, 2010, 06:57 PM
Guns with the magazine inserted on the side or top of the receiver.

Box magazines with cut outs to count rounds.

Nylon 66 stocked rimfires.

Travis McGee
June 20, 2010, 07:55 PM
Caseless ammo for sure.

Justin
June 20, 2010, 08:17 PM
Another is the high-capacity 1911. Seems like it would be nice, but few are made and no one really seems interested in them

Double stack 1911-pattern guns are incredibly popular among practical pistol competitors.

They practically reign supreme in Limited and Open divisions. They're also a significant percentage of the pistols shot by 3 Gun competitors.

Dr.Rob
June 20, 2010, 08:18 PM
Rotary bolt handgun anyone? Aka Colt's All American, 'seemed like a good idea at the time' but never caught, seemed plagued with reliability issues, and just didn't look right.

EddieNFL
June 20, 2010, 08:25 PM
Kimber's version of the external extractor.

jhallrv4
June 20, 2010, 08:33 PM
Now, wait a gosh darn minute, Bubba! I LOVE my S&W 686+ 7 round revolver!
And I'm pretty sure they've caught on.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/jhallrv4/gun/7rds357vignette.jpg

I DO have to agree though, that "one gun does it all" crap AKA the new Sig that can become various guns... ***??? If you're actually that indecisive, have someone else pick one out for you. Reminds me of the Shop-Smith. End mill, drill press, band saw, table saw, etc. etc. etc. Every changeover put you further behind on your project. Buy a couple of tools, already.

Sorry about the rant, but I firmly believe that Sig is a solution searching vainly for a problem.

Jeff

Shadow 7D
June 20, 2010, 08:50 PM
Heavy pistols like the Desert Eagle or AMT AutoMag (widely)

Cool guns, heavy guns, huge round, expensive all the way around.

I guess if you have the money it works, but much the same power, and in some cases capacity is available in a revolver for less.

Bubba613
June 20, 2010, 08:58 PM
Semi auto pistol caliber sub machine guns.

zoom6zoom
June 20, 2010, 08:59 PM
Guns with the magazine inserted on the side or top of the receiver.
Yeah, the Sterling, Sten, Bren and such never caught on.

Shadow 7D
June 20, 2010, 09:03 PM
Yeah, those HK MP10 really suck, so do the PS90's, hell the PPSH and Tommy where horrible :banghead:

they were designed for a specific reason, mass amounts or short range fire, not pinpoint 300m sniping.

How bout
AR clones, there has to be a different semi action that works as well, and why not a nice wood stock and less MallNinja Takticool

KodiakBeer
June 20, 2010, 09:12 PM
Now, wait a gosh darn minute, Bubba! I LOVE my S&W 686+ 7 round revolver!

I know what you're thinking: 'Did he fire six shots or only five?' But to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .357 Magnum, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?

BLAM!

Haha! It's a 7 shooter!

Oyeboten
June 20, 2010, 09:48 PM
http://usera.imagecave.com/Swordmaker/suicide-gun.jpg

BLACKHAWKNJ
June 21, 2010, 01:02 AM
Many of these ideas that never caught on are either too esoteric-the Scout Rifle, e.g., or like the semiauto only "submachine guns" they apeal to only a small market to begin with.

Nushif
June 21, 2010, 01:21 AM
Guns with the magazine inserted on the side or top of the receiver.

Hey, those worked just fine in WWII!

herohog
June 21, 2010, 02:01 AM
9mm WinMag (9x29), 9x23 Winchester, 9mm Largo all no/not much better than the .38 Super.

xcgates
June 21, 2010, 02:37 AM
Oyeboten: Is it safe to say that is a photoshopped picture? I've seen a picture similar to that, if not the same one, but I just have a hard time seeing someone actually going to the effort to make that for real.

Oyeboten
June 21, 2010, 05:36 AM
Lol...yes, I imagine it is an image manipulated by the Artist. Pretty amusing!

There is a similar image I have seen, of a Revolver arranged that way, but I could not find it on 'google'.


Of course, the 'GyroJet' never quite caught on, even though it did have real merits for some applications.

I remember everyone being all gaga about it when it came out...pretty cool idea...which if it had some more R&D put into it, could have got the bugs worked out I am sure.

I run across minty ones now and then at Gun Shows, but, I never have taken the plunge.

Ammunition is expensive...and likely 'stale'.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

Shadow 7D
June 21, 2010, 06:03 AM
Oyeboten:
What a terrible malignment of a classic CZ 27, a beautiful pistol way before it's time, not to mention finely machined and WAY overbuilt, I prefer the S&W, never like the damn revolvers anyways.

Zoidberg523
June 21, 2010, 07:58 AM
Yeah, those HK MP10 really suck, so do the PS90's, hell the PPSH and Tommy where horrible

Automatics will always be popular. He said semi-auto pistol caliber sub guns. :neener:

Not that I agree with that, however. There are tons of semi-auto sub guns for those of us that cannot afford the cost of fully automatic weapons.

Madcap_Magician
June 21, 2010, 10:15 AM
9mm WinMag (9x29), 9x23 Winchester, 9mm Largo all no/not much better than the .38 Super.

I think the point of the 9mm Largo and 9x23 were to circumvent laws in a lot of countries forbidding civilian posession of military calibers, i.e. 9x19mm. IIRC, the 9x23 was specifically designed to mirror 9x19 performance while being a different cartridge for civilian use.

berettaprofessor
June 21, 2010, 12:06 PM
Getting fashion design firms involved in creating guns; Beretta employed an Italian design firm to help design their biggest failure; the 9000 (now no longer made and never sold well), and the newer PX4, which is still up in the air but has yet to catch on (and is the ugliest gun Beretta makes IMHO).

GEM
June 21, 2010, 12:26 PM
Is the 9000 the one that they sold to Turkey and now imported by Stoeger?

How about that Ruger Mini rifle in 308 that never saw the light of day.

Also, 9mm revolvers by Taurus? They came and went and where's the Charter Arms version?

Boba Fett
June 21, 2010, 12:30 PM
How about a single action revolver or proprietary semiauto chambered in 30 Carbine? Neither of those seemed really popular (and anyone who has shot one can tell you why)..
Why? Tell me before I blow a grand on one.


I always wanted to get one of these and now that High Standard will be making them again I really want one:

http://www.highstandard.com/
http://alpinetek.netfirms.com/guns/iaiam3.JPG

* Fully adjustable 3 dot sights
* Caliber .30 carbine
* Semi-automatic
* Barrel length 6 3/8”, overall 10 ”, width 1 ”
* Rifling lead left twist (1-10)
* Barrel Grooves 6
* Weight 43 ounces
* Magazine capacity 8
* Stainless steel
* Carbon fiber grips

First Successful production auto pistol in Ml .30 carbine caliber

Magnum Velocity, light recoil AUTOMAG III is a hefty succeeder to the innovative .22 Magnum AUTOMAG II series. Distinctively styled in the stainless steel, AUTOMAG III is the first successful auto pistol to pack exciting ml .30 Carbine caliber power.

HISTORIC CALIBER

Developed early in World War II, the Ml Carbine quickly proved its capability as an outstanding, highly reliable, light-weight combat weapon. The famous carbine served U.S. soldiers and Marines in battle from France’s Normandy beachhead to the sands of Iwo Jima and Okinawa in the Pacific. Now the historic Ml .30 Carbine caliber is featured in AMT’s new, sleek AUTOMAG III. This pistol continues the AUTOMAG tradition of innovative design and attractive styling. It is the first successful production semi-automatic handgun manufactured in this caliber.

Deus Machina
June 21, 2010, 12:40 PM
Why? Tell me before I blow a grand on one.

.30 Carbine is a round for a small rifle. Using it in a handgun creates one heck of a flash and bang and recoil, but dismal performance.

I imagine it would work pretty well if you reload for a shorter barrel, but you may need to finagle with springs.

ants
June 21, 2010, 12:52 PM
One of these days, someone will take a .30 Carbine Automag and ream the chamber for 7.62 Tokarev. That cartridge shoots a 110g bullet nearly 2000 feet per second.

I'm not saying it will catch on, but it will be fun for somebody.

Floppy_D
June 21, 2010, 12:59 PM
No one mentioned The Judge yet?!?

devildog66
June 21, 2010, 01:10 PM
I realize that many of the short action magnum rifle cartridges have met with moderate success but it also seems that there in the early part of this century that manufacturers were bringing out Super Short Magnum EVERYTHINGS based on the 404 Jeffery cartridge. Again, more marketing (don't blame them) to replace non-existent problems.

Oh, and the pistol bayonet makes me laugh whenever I see one - careful on the re-holster there Tex...

Just for Floppy, Although it is hardly a commercial failure, in fact, it is quite the oposite, but the Taurus Judge :scrutiny: for home defense. Bulky, slow to reload, and a bad trigger - what a deal...

The Kimber series II and Colts series 80 firing pin blocks. More answers to a non-problem.

Dr.Rob
June 21, 2010, 01:31 PM
I waited and waited for that Ruger XG-1.

FIVETWOSEVEN
June 21, 2010, 01:33 PM
The SIG Sauer P250 is definantly one of them. If it had a DA/SA version it would sell, i'm sure.

earlthegoat2
June 21, 2010, 02:00 PM
Internal locks-yeah they are everywhere for the wrong reasons and I am pretty sure everyone either does not like them and/or does not know what they are.

Once again though it seemed good on paper....to liberals.

R.W.Dale
June 21, 2010, 02:15 PM
One of these days, someone will take a .30 Carbine Automag and ream the chamber for 7.62 Tokarev. That cartridge shoots a 110g bullet nearly 2000 feet per second.

I'm not saying it will catch on, but it will be fun for somebody.

No it doesn't:rolleyes:

30 CARBINE in a CARBINE shoots a 110g bullet at appx 2000fps and 1600 or so in a handgun

7.62x25 shoots an 85 grain bullet at appx 1600 fps from a handgun and about 2000 fps from a carbine

"reaming" an automag to tokarev would be a significant DECREASE in performance. I should know I've owned both.

Shadow 7D
June 21, 2010, 02:40 PM
the issue is the powder, a rifle round expels alot of unburnt powder and a lot of potential energy goes byebye in a large flash at the muzzle of the gun,

I would love to see where you are getting those numbers because that is close to what a .30 carbine is supposed to do you of a rifle, let alone a pistol.

R.W.Dale
June 21, 2010, 02:45 PM
Not the powder burnrate vs bbl length MYTH!


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! When will it ever end?

I'm goint to assume you're completely unaware of the fact that the best powders for 30carbine are also the best performing propellants for........

.........


....


.....357 and 44 magnum.

rbernie
June 21, 2010, 05:01 PM
Why? Tell me before I blow a grand on one. Shooting a Blackhawk or Automag in 30 Carbine will be one of the most deafening experiences of your life.

BTDT.

My 4" Mountain Gun with full house loads kicked a lot more (duh) but wasn't as insanely loud or blinding using full-house loads of H110 as was shooting milsurp 30 Carbine ammo thru a 30 Carbine handgun.

Boba Fett
June 21, 2010, 06:14 PM
Not the powder burnrate vs bbl length MYTH!


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! When will it ever end?


LOL :D


a rifle round expels alot of unburnt powder and a lot of potential energy goes byebye in a large flash at the muzzle of the gun
I thought muzzle flash was the escaping gases of already burned powder...not powder bursting into flames as it leaves the barrel? I really don't know much about it, so feel free to school me :)

Shooting a Blackhawk or Automag in 30 Carbine will be one of the most deafening experiences of your life.


Ahhhh ok. Even with hearing protection I take it.

Hmmm. I'd probably want to shoot one before buying then. No point in blowing a grand if I hate shooting it because of the noise.


I'm guessing using this as a HD gun would cause you and the BG to bleed...him from the wounds and you from the ears :p

thewilbur
June 21, 2010, 06:44 PM
RCBS Little Dandy Rotors 0 and 00. What is going on here anyway? Anyone for reloading 25 Auto? I didn't think so.

Shadow 7D
June 21, 2010, 06:44 PM
it's that too, but if you have unburnt powder it goes up in the flash too, and makes a really big flash.

Zack
June 21, 2010, 06:56 PM
12/20g pistol/revolver ??
ar-15 30-06?

Poprivit
June 21, 2010, 08:16 PM
9-shot/one shotgun load (10-shot) LeMat Civil war handgun. I owned two repops and they both broke before I could get them back into the Navy Arms box for return.

Ragnar Danneskjold
June 21, 2010, 08:24 PM
The original M16.

John Parker
June 21, 2010, 08:37 PM
Shooting a Blackhawk or Automag in 30 Carbine will be one of the most deafening experiences of your life.


But but but...the .30 carbine is well known as the most anemic rifle cartridge ever!!! :scrutiny:

FTSESQ
June 21, 2010, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Another is the high-capacity 1911. Seems like it would be nice, but few are made and no one really seems interested in them
Double stack 1911-pattern guns are incredibly popular among practical pistol competitors.

+1 there!

I'm thinking pistol caliber carbines. There. I said it. Pistol caliber carbines.

I love them... You love them, but in practice, rarely better than a rifle caliber carbine.

Jaybird78
June 21, 2010, 09:26 PM
Etronix primers....

Remington introduced an electronic ignition system, not too long ago, to eliminate the mechanics and time of the trigger and firing pin. Obviously the gun and primers need to be made for electronic ignition. Never caught on but you can still buy the electronic primers - expensive.


I was going to mention this also. There is a rifle for sale locally. Remington 700 Etronx .243 26" Fluted Stainless / Synthetic New Special $999.95 List $1940.00

All I can say is.......NUTS!

black_powder_Rob
June 21, 2010, 10:26 PM
Well GEM the Taurus 9mm is still being produced and actually sells in other countries along with in the U.S. ( I have one and know of several others that at least have a revolver in 9mm.) also the px4 is a nice pistol and is doing well in sales from what i have seen.

as for never catching on how about the gyro rocket pistol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoffTmg9bxU

or the semiautomatic revolver? http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg186-e.htm

those are my two picks.

Rembrandt
June 21, 2010, 10:31 PM
"Guns with the magazine inserted on the side or top of the receiver.


Yeah, the Sterling, Sten, Bren and such never caught on.

Hey, those worked just fine in WWII!



Right you are......but there's a reason no builds them today.

BHP FAN
June 21, 2010, 10:40 PM
that's because they're butt-ugly, and not marketable not because they didn't work...

The Wiry Irishman
June 21, 2010, 10:42 PM
IIRC, the 9x23 was specifically designed to mirror 9x19 performance while being a different cartridge for civilian use

9mm Largo (9x21) was designed for that purpose. 9x23 Winchester was designed for IPSC/USPSA open people that were shooting .38 Super. Getting the Super to make power factor meant exceeding SAAMI data for even .38 Super +p, so the 9x23 was designed from the ground up to handle that pressure. Essentially it's just a cut down .223 case, thick case webs and all. The cartridge is designed to use small rifle primers, as well.

Rembrandt
June 21, 2010, 10:50 PM
....that's because they're butt-ugly, and not marketable not because they didn't work...

Original poster said "Gun ideas that seem good on paper, but nobody really likes once they come out...From time to time a new or novel gun or variation comes out, that seems like a good idea, but it never really catches on...."

I'd say that fits.....

The Lone Haranguer
June 21, 2010, 10:52 PM
http://rock-island-auction.ammoland.com/images/821.0.jpg
http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/images/2009-6/2009618489-256win_ms.jpg

black_powder_Rob
June 21, 2010, 10:53 PM
http://www.wlawarehouse.com/store_front/sterling/sterling-build-service/ you were saying,,,:scrutiny: ;)

Mitch from LA
June 21, 2010, 10:55 PM
I guess time will tell, but the .50 GI seems that way to me. I'd love to have one if I could afford it. Same goes for the .45 Winchester Magnum.

SIGP250
June 21, 2010, 11:00 PM
.45 agp

Mt Shooter
June 21, 2010, 11:00 PM
volcanic rounds.......nuf said.

Tallinar
June 21, 2010, 11:21 PM
I'm thinking pistol caliber carbines. There. I said it. Pistol caliber carbines.

I love them... You love them, but in practice, rarely better than a rifle caliber carbine.

It's true of course that a rifle caliber carbine is "stronger" than a pistol caliber carbine. However, that doesn't say that they never caught on or that they aren't effective.

Model 92's or 94's in .357 mag, .44 mag, or .45 Colt are some of the handiest 100 yd rifles out there!

bskillet
June 21, 2010, 11:59 PM
Rotary bolt handgun anyone? Aka Colt's All American, 'seemed like a good idea at the time' but never caught, seemed plagued with reliability issues, and just didn't look right.


Ah, what about the Beretta Px4 and Beretta/Stoeger Cougar?

Boba Fett
June 22, 2010, 01:28 AM
Rotary bolt handgun anyone?

Wait...you mean something like this? :scrutiny:

http://alternativemindz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/blade_runner_blaster_m2019_.jpg
http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/auction-blade-runner-blaster-00.jpg


Sorry, couldn't resist.:D



Back to reality.
So what was wrong with the rotary bolt handguns? I've never shot any of them that I'm aware of. Haven't shot the Beretta Px4 or Beretta/Stoeger Cougar. What others were there and why are they not so hot? :confused:

sidheshooter
June 22, 2010, 01:43 AM
I'm glad someone else mentioned the judge before I had to...

:D

1911s with barrels longer than 5 inches.

Also, as much as I respect the company, I'd probably nominate those proprietary NAA guardians in those corbon necked-down calibers; the .380 necked down to .32 and the .32 necked down to .25. I'm sure they've sold only slightly better than liver flavored soda pop, despite looking good on paper...

:barf:

usmc1371
June 22, 2010, 02:01 AM
Love the .30 carbine blackhawk! Closest thing to a flame thrower you can get in a convenient hand gun size package with a report that will make Zeus wince.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the .45 GAP! super lame

killchain
June 22, 2010, 02:52 AM
Love the .30 carbine blackhawk! Closest thing to a flame thrower you can get in a convenient hand gun size package with a report that will make Zeus wince.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the .45 GAP! super lame

That's because we don't talk bad about Glock here. :eek:

The Wiry Irishman
June 22, 2010, 03:02 AM
Oh, I thought of one - the .40 Super

Oyeboten
June 22, 2010, 04:47 AM
Hi Shadow D,


You'd mentioned -

Oyeboten:
What a terrible malignment of a classic CZ 27, a beautiful pistol way before it's time, not to mention finely machined and WAY overbuilt, I prefer the S&W, never like the damn revolvers anyways.


You are right!!

Lol...

I really like the old CZs, but have never owned one yet...still hoping to some day.

I got lost though on your S&W reference...can you elaborate?

Oyeboten
June 22, 2010, 04:53 AM
What about the Remington XP series?


Did they catch on? Or... catch on enough to elude this Thread's intent?


I think they are very cool...never owned or shot one, but, I admire them.


One example here -

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=173313612

Bexar
June 22, 2010, 05:43 AM
Didn't the rocket guns run up against the ATF?

I thought I heard the ATF had an issue for some reason with the ammo or lack of report. Not sure.

As mentioned it's not the gun but the cartridge chambering that is proclaimed to be a wonder wowzer but flatuates into a reloading option only.

Some guns were made just too well and the market could only support them for a little while. Some machined reciever shotguns come to mind.

Bexar

Shadow 7D
June 22, 2010, 06:56 AM
No, if the rocket is larger enough and carries an explosive warhead, then it falls under a destructive device.

Oyeboten, I believe the revolver version of the 'suicide' gun was a S&W, and I never have loved revolvers, just feel of them is off, comes from shooting autos my entire life.

Navy_Guns
June 22, 2010, 08:34 AM
Metal Storm.

Kriss "Super V" submachine gun - especially the semi-auto only 16" barrel version.

Equestrian
June 22, 2010, 09:01 AM
there are some guns out there like the "suicide Gun" custom made for mirror over the shoulder trick shots

Whatsit
June 22, 2010, 10:39 AM
I'm surprised no one has suggested EXTREME SHOCK exploding frang faced terrorist eliminator rounds! They make some pretty fantastic claims in those ads, but in reality they fall flat.

Wasn't a good idea to begin with - jus' sayin'.

Boba Fett
June 22, 2010, 11:35 AM
I'm surprised no one has suggested EXTREME SHOCK exploding frang faced terrorist eliminator rounds! They make some pretty fantastic claims in those ads, but in reality they fall flat.

Wasn't a good idea to begin with - jus' sayin'.
True! Or the DRT ammo - Dead Right There :rolleyes:


http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM268-5.html
Years of research and testing by Dynamic Research Technology (DRT) in conjunction with elite agencies world wide have created the deadliest ammunition available. This is the only ammunition used to safeguard officials and has earned the name "Dead Right There". http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/anim_rofl2.gif The uniqueness of this copper-jacketed ammunition is in the compressed powder core which is as fine as talcum powder, as the bullet is fired it is spinning at such a high speed, when it reaches any part of the "target" and comes into contact with the organic tissue the hydrostatic shock of the soft material going into the hollow point actually makes the entire core projectile expand creating a fatal wound. The bullet will not pass through the "target" making it perfect for home defense or close quarter combat. Hit any part of the body to stop it dead in its tracks.http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/anim_rofl2.gif

Justin Holder
June 22, 2010, 01:21 PM
muzzle breaks on varmint rifles

Remington 700 Dangerous Game Rifle

1964 Winchester discontinues Controlled Round Feed

300/338 Ruger Compact Magnum

flyinrob
June 22, 2010, 02:08 PM
Define: "catch on"

There are quite a few firearms that are not and never will be produced in great numbers, but the manufacturers still make money and the guns make it to the people that want them(and in many cases treasure them).

Just because a gun doesn't become the next Glock 19 doesn't mean it's a failure or no good.

herohog
June 22, 2010, 03:14 PM
9mm Largo (9x21) was designed for that purpose. 9x23 Winchester was designed for IPSC/USPSA open people that were shooting .38 Super. Getting the Super to make power factor meant exceeding SAAMI data for even .38 Super +p, so the 9x23 was designed from the ground up to handle that pressure. Essentially it's just a cut down .223 case, thick case webs and all. The cartridge is designed to use small rifle primers, as well.

The Largo is 9x23 NOT 9x21 and was used by the Spanish military.

heron
June 22, 2010, 03:41 PM
Lone Haranguer, what is that Ruger scoped revolver? There's something really weird about the cylinder . . .

Lee Roder
June 22, 2010, 04:21 PM
Don't think pistol bayonets ever quite "caught on" although I still see the hardware so it is an idea that WILL NOT DIE

Dr.Rob
June 22, 2010, 04:33 PM
Heron, thats a Ruger Hawkeye, a single shot breechloader disguised as a revolver.

Boba Fett
June 22, 2010, 04:36 PM
Lone Haranguer, what is that Ruger scoped revolver? There's something really weird about the cylinder . . .
I believe it is a Ruger Hawkeye .256 Magnum. And it is actually not a revolver.

http://onlinedoug.com/Ruger_Hawkeye_Info.html
The Ruger Hawkeye single shot pistol, manufactured in 1963, is not a revolver, although it appears to be. Instead, to load it, the artillery-style breech block is manually unlocked by pushing a latch, and is then rotated counter-clockwise to expose its chamber. A single .256 Winchester Magnum cartridge (a .357 Magnum necked down to accept a .256" bullet) is inserted directly into the 8" barrel, and the breechblock is rotated clockwise until it locks. The hammer is then cocked, and the special wide trigger pulled, to fire the pistol. The Ruger Hawkeye was not a commercial success, being a single-shot pistol before that type enjoyed more widespread popularity as a hunting handgun. It was manufactured only in 1963-1964. Less than 3,300 were made. It was Ruger's first commercially-produced single shot firearm.

The Lone Haranguer
June 22, 2010, 07:16 PM
http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/HB53-6397-bx.jpg
http://www.ows-ammo.com/catalog/images/22Jet.JPG

A failure in its time, nice ones with all the parts are collectible these days.

yeti
June 23, 2010, 07:57 PM
http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/page19_blog_entry180_1.jpg

And you should see the speedloader!:what:

The Lone Haranguer
June 23, 2010, 08:12 PM
That looks very difficult to keep in time. :scrutiny:

rscalzo
June 23, 2010, 08:53 PM
Nylon 66 stocked rimfires.

Have you seen the prices for those in top condition?

Carter
June 23, 2010, 09:25 PM
The 1941 Johnson...although I'd love to have one.
Can't use a bayonet with it though.

Johnson's 5.7 m2 carbine was a flop as well.

FTSESQ
June 23, 2010, 09:41 PM
the .45 GAP! super lame

Hell to the yeah! completely. Useless.

Millwright
June 23, 2010, 10:42 PM
The Dardick pistol......Or the Dardick anything, FTM......>MW

Makarov92
June 23, 2010, 10:50 PM
http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/FM%20CSRG%2015%20Chauchat-VD-WEB2.JPG
http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/Comblain/Chargeur.jpg
As may of you know this rifle cause the death of many young dough boys due to its horrid reliability. The French version wasn't as bad as the American's though. When they converted many them to the .30-06', they did a horrible job.

LeontheProfessional
June 23, 2010, 11:11 PM
Colt Model 1855 Revolving Rifle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_revolving_rifle

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