Preventing Lead Fouling


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ruger1228
June 20, 2010, 09:56 PM
I am reloading 158gr LSWC in 357 magnum and 38 Special. I want to prevent leading. My question is what would be the best fps to get the most out of this bullet without creating an excess of lead fouling.
I hope this question makes sense and you are able to understand what I am asking.
Thanking everyone in advance for the help.
thom

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Walkalong
June 20, 2010, 10:02 PM
You need to match the bullet hardness to the pressure and velocity you will be running. Assuming your cylinders throats are no bigger than .359, or maybe .360, and your bore is .357, an 18 BHN bullet will serve you well for close to and full .357 loads. For target velocities a lower BHN bullet might be needed.

So, what FPS do you want to shoot? What BHN bullets do you have?

Oyeboten
June 20, 2010, 10:17 PM
Yup...as Walkalong says...

Right Lube, used right...also...

Some good reading here -

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Tallinar
June 20, 2010, 10:45 PM
There are several factors that can cause leading. Walkalong kind of alluded to the main ones already.

A very common mistake that people make is to use too hard of a bullet. You'll want to find a bullet soft enough in order that it will fully obturate (ie, expand to seal the chamber walls) at the instant of peak pressure where the bullet is leaving the mouth of the case.

Generally speaking, many lead bullet manufacturers advertise the hardest possible slug as being an all-around good thing. This is marketing for their benefit, and nothing more. Remember, manufacturers benefit from making their bullets hard, as harder bullets withstand the rigors of shipping better than softer bullets with more effective lube.

Make sure your bullets are the correct fit for your chamber throats and make sure your bullet isn't too hard. These are the two primary factors (but not the only factors) that contribute to barrel leading.

ruger1228
June 21, 2010, 06:44 AM
You need to match the bullet hardness to the pressure and velocity you will be running. Assuming your cylinders throats are no bigger than .359, or maybe .360, and your bore is .357, an 18 BHN bullet will serve you well for close to and full .357 loads. For target velocities a lower BHN bullet might be needed.

So, what FPS do you want to shoot? What BHN bullets do you have?
I am using 158gr Laser Cast Bullets. I do not know the BHN. According to Hodgdon Data Center using 5.4gr of Titegroup will give about 1100 ft/sec for the 357 magnum and
3.5gr of Titegroup will give about 77 ft/sec for the 38 special.
I am going to load about 10 of each caliber and see what the results is.

243winxb
June 21, 2010, 07:45 AM
38spec.=3.2gr Bullseye maximum. 357mag= Alliant 2400 13.0gr Correction- change Unique to 2400

Jeff H
June 21, 2010, 08:12 AM
38spec.=3.2gr Bullseye maximum. 357mag= Alliant Unique 13.0gr

Ummm, NO! That is way too much Unique, you must have meant 2400, not Unique.

Walkalong
June 21, 2010, 08:24 AM
From Oregon Trail
Since the Laser-CastŪ silver bullet has a hardness of 24 BHN, it begins obturating at 11,500 psi. By our calculations, the entire base portion of the bullet is fully obturated at 13,000 psi. As you can see, the shooter need not worry about obturation when shooting the Laser-CastŪ silver bullet at standard velocities
Most charts I have seen show it taking more pressure to obturate a 24 BHN bullet, but maybe with their alloy it takes less. Dunno. Only way to find out is try it. Their bullets are generally well thought of.

Titegroup isn't the best choice with lead since it is a high nitro content powder and burns hotter than most, but it is a popular powder and if that is what you have, try it. I would go with 700X, W-231, Unique, etc over TG myself.

ruger1228
June 21, 2010, 08:36 AM
From Oregon Trail

Most charts I have seen show it taking more pressure to obturate a 24 BHN bullet, but maybe with their alloy it takes less. Dunno. Only way to find out is try it. Their bullets are generally well thought of.

Titegroup isn't the best choice with lead since it is a high nitro content powder and burns hotter than most, but it is a popular powder and if that is what you have, try it. I would go with 700X, W-231, Unique, etc over TG myself.
I do have the following Hodgdon Powders: HP38, Clays, Universal Clays, Titegroup. These powders are all listed in the Hodgdon Data Center chart for use with the 158gr LSWC. I have always used Hodgdon Powders for both shotgun and handgun reloading. I have found there performance and products have served me well,

Walkalong
June 21, 2010, 08:41 AM
HP-38 is W-231 according to Hodgdon. It or Clays will work well in .38 Spl. Universal shoots pretty good in .357, but of course won't get max velocities.

Only way to tell is load some up and shoot them.

SlamFire1
June 21, 2010, 10:29 AM
For a 38 Special, don’t even try find leading. You will be pushing the bullet too fast.

I load a 158 L with 3.5 grains Bullseye, any case any primer, and I don’t have leading. This load goes about 760 fps in a 38 Spl 4” Colt Police Positive


Even though gunwriters of the 70’s/80’s recommended Blue Dot in the 357, I got horrible leading with the stuff. I don’t recommend Blue Dot.

The day I chronographed my Blue Dot load, I tested AA#9. Same velocity, no leading.

Bottom line for me, Blue Dot is not worth the bother.

I can push the same bullets the same speed with 2400 and get little to no leading.

Valiant casts his bullets about 13.5 BHM.


Smith & Wesson M27-2



158 LRN Valiant 9.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F
Ave Vel = 1203
Std Dev = 29.22
ES = 120.8
High = 1261
Low = 1141
N = 22
accurate,leading

158 LRN Valiant 10.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F

Ave Vel = 1290
Std Dev = 24.91
ES = 88.15
High = 1324
Low = 1235
N = 20

very accurate, heavy leading


158 LRN Valiant 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel = 1278
Std Dev = 34.98
ES = 117.4
High = 1344
Low = 1226
N = 27
very accurate, no leading

158 LRN Valiant 12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases

5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel = 1348
Std Dev = 34.16
ES = 134.7
High = 1386
Low = 1251
N = 25
very accurate, no leading

158 LRN Valiant 13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases

5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel = 1360
Std Dev = 33.19
ES = 109.8
High = 1393
Low = 1284
N = 26
very accurate, no leading


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/ReducedM27-2N3666881970rightsidecoc.jpg

dagger dog
June 21, 2010, 10:46 AM
In reading John Linebaughs article Exploding the Myth he states that a water quenched wheelweight bullet properly lubed can be driven at pressure about 32,000 CUP and velocitys @ 1495 fps with a 260 gr bullet out of .45 Colt caliber,without any leading problems.

If you need to run your .357 at higher velocitys Iwould think a gas check bullet could be pushed at higher velocity and not have any leading problems.

Read his article @ www.customsixguns.com

Jesse Heywood
June 21, 2010, 09:27 PM
In the last two weeks I made two trips to the range with my 6” 686. I fired 300 rounds of 357 mag the first trip, 250 rounds of 38 special on the second. Between trips I ran a brush through the gun to remove the dirt and carbon. After the second I did a thorough cleaning to get everything out. There was no lead in the bore and cylinder, only light leading in the forcing cone.

Bullets were Magnus 148 gr wadcutters, 18 bhn. MBC 125 gr TCFP, 12 bhn, and MBC 158 gr SWC, 18 bhn. All bullets had been tumble lubed with a light coat of Rooster Jacket.

Powders were Titegroup, W231, IMR4227, IMR7625, Bullseye, 700-x, 800-X Unique, and Green Dot.

I don't have a chronograph, but published pressures for the loads I used were up to 30.000 cup.

Jech
June 22, 2010, 09:52 AM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I'm using 16.0gr Hodgdon H110 ignited by CCI #550 pirmers pushing MBC 158gr LSWC 18 BHN bullets through my 2.25" Ruger SP101 .357 magnum ((note: this is .3gr over maximum in my manuals))

I get a small amount of unburned powder with the snubbie barrel but absolutely zero leading and a huge dumb grin when I fire them :P I'd guess they're pushing 1200fps from my snubbie barrel, the kick/muzzle blast is higher than most factory .357 loads I've tried but that's a completely uneducated guess.

~ Jech

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