Gun ownership in Russia is increasing...


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Makarov92
June 21, 2010, 02:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMzU3lJnY5E

I will admit this is a big plus for Russians. Yet, they have a long way to go to gain full freedom not just with firearms, but with other basic freedoms as well.

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KodiakBeer
June 21, 2010, 03:46 PM
I've been going to Russia off and on since 1990. Russians have (generally) more freedom with firearms than western Europeans. This was true even in Soviet times.

I was with the first group of westerners to go into Petropavlosk-Kamchatsky (a closed city) since the revolution. This was in 1990. Most people had pistols (mostly illegally) and they carried them. Everybody had shotguns (legally) in their homes. Weirdly, you couldn't own hunting rifles legally even there in the far east, unless you were a party guy with connections.

Since then, they've liberalized the gun laws. Anyone can own a shotgun or rifle, and you can get a pistol with a special license. The further east you go in Russia, the more guns you see. Russians are secretive and I'm sure there are far more guns held illegally than legally. One guy I met in western Russia had two MP40's, another dozen long guns and a half dozen or so pistols of WWII vintage. They had kept them hidden away, passed down father to son since the war.

sv51macross
June 21, 2010, 04:48 PM
Answer me this; there's a series of vids on YT of an alleged Russian with an SKS that he custom-made a bullpup stock for, and fabricated an AK-magwell for the rifle too. He had photos of the rifle in it's case with several high-cap mags, even a 75rnd drum, and a suppressor. (and a vid of him firing with suppressor and drum in what looked like a basement firing range). The way I understood it was that a Russian citizen could ow a centerfire semiauto, but magazines over 10rnd capacity were illegal. Is this one of those hidden, illegal guns or am I missing something?

KodiakBeer
June 21, 2010, 05:06 PM
I'm not aware of any ten round limit to firearms. On my last trip about 3 years ago, I shopped in a Russian gun store to pick up a couple of nice leather holsters - they even had 1911 holsters! Anyway, there were plenty of high-cap AK type rifles on the shelves with the long mags. You can't buy full auto weapons and pistol permits are hard to get, but long arms are not an issue.

The rule is that you can buy an unrifled long arm (shotgun) easily. If you own this weapon for two years without killing anyone, then you can step up to rifled arms of just about any type. I think .22's (even pistols) might be exempt from most of these rules because lots of people shoot them for recreation and small game - or that was my impression, anyway.

One of the things you see in Russia is a LOT of private security people, all with sidearms. All the big stores, shops and hotels have scads of private security and those guys get permits quite easily.

For regular people who don't work in a security job, you either have to be connected or bribe somebody to get a permit. Many people own and carry handguns illegally, and my impression is that they feel they can bribe their way out of trouble if they get caught.

Gun nutt
June 21, 2010, 08:40 PM
For regular people who don't work in a security job, you either have to be connected or bribe somebody to get a permit. Many people own and carry handguns illegally, and my impression is that they feel they can bribe their way out of trouble if they get caught.Interesting. WE pay the bribe to the state before we carry, and the Russians pay the bribe after. AZ/VT/AK = no bribe states.

mordechaianiliewicz
July 6, 2010, 02:13 PM
Well, now things that Russian immigrants and exchange students near me have said make a lot of sense. I guess it is much easier to obtain guns in Russia than I thought.

rmfnla
July 6, 2010, 02:23 PM
Answer me this; there's a series of vids on YT of an alleged Russian with an SKS that he custom-made a bullpup stock for, and fabricated an AK-magwell for the rifle too. He had photos of the rifle in it's case with several high-cap mags, even a 75rnd drum, and a suppressor. (and a vid of him firing with suppressor and drum in what looked like a basement firing range). The way I understood it was that a Russian citizen could ow a centerfire semiauto, but magazines over 10rnd capacity were illegal. Is this one of those hidden, illegal guns or am I missing something?
You are confusing Russia with California, not uncommon when it comes to firearms freedom.

JoeSlomo
July 6, 2010, 02:43 PM
^^ lol!

BlayGlock
July 6, 2010, 04:00 PM
In Mother Russia, gun fires you!

Hani Pasha
July 6, 2010, 04:33 PM
Russians might be working on reclaiming their firearms rights, but I still wouldn't go to that country in the forseeable future. From what I can tell, there's a frightening amount of hate toward non-ethnic Russians.

I'll stay in the US where it's relatively safe for all peoples to live.

KodiakBeer
July 6, 2010, 06:19 PM
I still wouldn't go to that country in the forseeable future. From what I can tell, there's a frightening amount of hate toward non-ethnic Russians.

It's mostly media hype. There is a lot of tension around Muslim immigrants from the south, not unlike what we see in this country with Mexican immigrants, gangs, etc. If you get out of Moscow/St. Petersburg (where they see a lot of westerners), Russians will actually seek you out and invite you to their home, buy you beers, whatever. Sometimes you get a little PC blather about Bush and Iraq, but it's polite and no different than you'll hear in western Europe.

Russians (at least rural and small town Russians) are a lot more like Americans than Western Europeans. They like to hunt and fish, drink beer, soup up cars, etc. Russian women are very assertive and almost weirdly attracted to Americans, even pot-bellied specimens like myself. They aren't shy, but being married I wasn't able to sample the wares...

Hani Pasha
July 6, 2010, 06:55 PM
I don't buy the idea that it's all media hype at all. One of my best friends is a Russian immigrant and a few months ago, when he was heading home to see his family, I mentioned that it would be interesting to go to Russia for a little tourism. He said that that was a terrible idea because I don't exactly look Slavic or any other kind of "white" (my heritage is Middle Eastern).

Let's not forget that about half of the neo-Nazis in the world live in Russia (I guess they don't see the irony in that). Additionally, Amnesty International is pretty concerned about what's going on in Russia with good reason.

I'm sure that most Russian citizens are decent people, and of course I'm not judging people of Russian heritage in any way. But at the same time, I don't think there's anything to be gained by ignoring or downplaying real problems in that country.

KodiakBeer
July 6, 2010, 08:35 PM
He said that that was a terrible idea because I don't exactly look Slavic or any other kind of "white" (my heritage is Middle Eastern).

Then yeah, you might have a problem, especially in the big cities in western Russia. There is definitely a strong anti-Muslim bias among many people and as you point out, a skinhead subculture. I'd suggest to anyone visiting Russia, to get out of Moscow - once you see St. Basil's and the pickled Lenin display there isn't much more to do. Moscow and St. Pete are as expensive as London or New York, so see the sights and move on to the real Russia.

Hani Pasha
July 6, 2010, 08:48 PM
There is definitely a strong anti-Muslim bias among many people

If that was true, I'd have no problem... I'm Christian born and raised. :D

KodiakBeer
July 6, 2010, 09:24 PM
If that was true, I'd have no problem... I'm Christian born and raised.

It's the appearance that may mean trouble, not the religion. If you look like a Chechen, a Dagestani, an Uzbeck, etc, you may not have time to explain to some Skinhead your ethnic makeup.
Again though, that's a big city issue in western Russia. Further east, nobody cares. My wife's best friend in Izhevsk is married to a Muslim Tatar and it's not an issue with anyone. A black acquaintance of mine is married to a woman from Ekaterinburg and they visit regularly and again, nobody cares. However, this same couple have been called names and even had bottles thrown at them in Moscow by young punks.

Sam1911
July 6, 2010, 09:51 PM
This is wonderfully interesting, but we really do need to stick to a gun-focused discussion.

Please let's drift back on track.

Thanks!

dougw47
July 6, 2010, 11:26 PM
My church sends groups to Russia to support and help build up small churches.

A friend of mine went 3-4 years ago, he was a Class 3 dealer, and obviously like me is interested in guns. His conversations with people in three small Russian cities found that though they do not have a "2nd Amend." law to protect them, they are armed and some are amassing personal collections. The general feeling is/was that they have the stories of being stripped of their possessions, and they vow "Never Again!" Not all that different than our famous "...Cold, dead fingers!"

I believe if we do not get off our backsides and build a fire under Congress, that the Antis and this administration will use treachery, lies, and some convenient incident atrocity to ram registration down our throats...which mark my words will lead to confiscation efforts. I am sure my name is on several lists and would not be surprised to get that "knock on the door."

PH/CIB
July 7, 2010, 12:01 AM
If I remember correctly the Russians lost 20 million people in WWII, if I lived in a country with those kind of losses in a War, I would insist on gun ownership, and it would be in that country's interest to have an armed population.

I can't remember exactly when I hunted Elk with Dick and Mike Ray with Lobo Outfitters in Colorado, the hunt was in New Mexico and they are a couple of great hunting guides, I highly recommend them. I believe it was back in 1985 or so, and Dick Ray had hunted Brown Bear on the Kamchatka in Russia, way back then, I have heard Eastern Russia has some great hunting and fishing!

Oyeboten
July 7, 2010, 01:24 AM
They were de-armed under the Communist rule, which rule murdered probably 65,000,000 ordinary people who were found guilty of the most trivial offenses to the new ruling 'class'.

They had enormous defecting of red army units to the Germans, which at the War's end, the 'allies' then repatriated back to the c.c.c.p. for perfunctoy torture and death or gulag slavery and death...so, millions more were 'lost' in that, also.


None the less, many contraband things were hidden by people, and, remain hidden, or sometimes are turned up.

China similarly.

I knew a guy who ten years ago, was doing some business in the former c.c.c.p.

late 'Oos 'Teens and 'Twenties Indian and Excellsior and Harley Motorcycles, ditto Buicks, Cadillacs Haines, etc of the same period, Guns, all kinds of old American things hidden in basements and deep storage, covered in old Carpets and so on..."tons" of it.

But, you gotta know a lot of ins and outs of doing 'Business' over there to get the stuff out, and or not get clipped or killed.

Former c.c.c.p. and comunist red china is all crooks and organized crime groups...far as getting anyting done or out.

Messy...

Sam1911
July 7, 2010, 06:57 AM
If I remember correctly the Russians lost 20 million people in WWII, if I lived in a country with those kind of losses in a War, I would insist on gun ownership, and it would be in that country's interest to have an armed population.
The issue there, as Oyeboten alluded to, is that Stalin & Co. killed MORE of their own people than were killed by the enemy. An armed populace tends to interfere with that.

The Undertaker
July 7, 2010, 07:15 AM
Oyeboten is absolutely right.

I'm a ethnic Manchu/Mongol born in the People's Republic of China (who has since become a naturalized US citizen and proud gun owner), and while on a visit back to the old country...

I had a few drinks with a family friend who lived outside of Dalian, Lower Manchuria. The guy promptly showed me his basement.

There were rifles - Mosin-Nagants, Mausers, and even a Type 56 (Chinese AKM). The older rifles were leftovers from the chaos of the 1940s, when the communists fought the nationalists for control. The Type 56 was apparently once a People's Liberation Army issue, brought home by his father (who was a PLA soldier) during the 1960s and never returned to the armory.

There were submachine guns - three Thompsons (Chinese copies) and several PPShs.

And there were a plethora of pistols, mostly WWII and Cold War vintages.

All of which were fully functional. Ammo, however, is difficult to come by.

I was very impressed.

Ingsoc75
July 8, 2010, 07:53 AM
As KodiakBeer said:
One guy I met in western Russia had two MP40's, another dozen long guns and a half dozen or so pistols of WWII vintage. They had kept them hidden away, passed down father to son since the war.

I wonder how common this is, especially in Ukraine and Belarus?

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