Guns, Motorcycles, & Concealment


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CTGunner
June 22, 2010, 09:04 PM
I was driving into work this morning when a man riding a motorcycle passed me on the right. The bike was impressive, handlebars way up in the air and lots of nice looking colors and chrome. The rider looked like a 'bad dude' and was clearly trying to convey a 'tough guy' image. He got in front of me and as he did I could see that his T-Shirt was flying all the way up in the back from the wind exposing his torso and a full sized handgun stuffed in his waste band. I am very pro gun and have no problem with people carrying but for some reason I just felt like this guy was putting on a show for no good reason. I worry that this type of 'behavior' really has the potential to turn 'reasonable' people against our right to carry. So, for those of you who ride and carry what are your thoughts on this scenario?

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JoeMal
June 22, 2010, 09:07 PM
Do you live in an OC state? If not, it would be interesting to see how that situation would be handled by the police. It's under the clothes, but the wind is manipulating the clothing to expose the gun. Personally, I would think that's more of an open carry.

CTGunner
June 22, 2010, 09:09 PM
I live in a state that says you can open carry but the police are known to come down on it pretty hard under 'breach of peace' which can result in loss of rights. However, a recent court ruling has made this practice more difficult. I don't like to take chances and make sure I'm totally concealed 100% of the time.

TeamPrecisionIT
June 22, 2010, 10:43 PM
I know this is going to sound condescending, but if he would have been wearing the proper protective gear then it wouldn't have been a problem. I cc while riding and my jacket does not blow up with the wind so it isn't a problem. Even a decent vest actually buttoned up front would have prevented this issue.

But just to say it, we carry handguns for protection, but won't wear proper protective gear to protect from the asphalt in the event of a crash, which statistically speaking, will happen more frequently for a motorcyclist. For the record, I am 100% pro-gun and 100% pro-riding.

Damian

General Geoff
June 22, 2010, 10:51 PM
Sometimes you just can't conceal...


http://www.shadowflareindustries.com/images/Rifleman.jpg

TeamPrecisionIT
June 22, 2010, 11:06 PM
Touche!

FirearmsEnthusiast
June 22, 2010, 11:08 PM
Haha, awesome picture :D

Zack
June 22, 2010, 11:13 PM
I bet every anti called the police when they saw him :rolleyes:

throdgrain
June 23, 2010, 05:35 AM
Absolutely excellent picture :D :D

zootsuit002
June 23, 2010, 02:26 PM
“The bike was impressive, handlebars way up in the air and lots of nice looking colors and chrome. The rider looked like a 'bad dude' and was clearly trying to convey a 'tough guy' image.”
1. Devil’s advocate…he may have actually been a ‘bad dude’ and a ‘tough guy’ although most of those usually travel undercover.

"But just to say it, we carry handguns for protection, but won't wear proper protective gear to protect from the asphalt in the event of a crash, which statistically speaking, will happen more frequently for a motorcyclist."
2. Who are you and or we to decide why he carries a gun? I carry for many different reasons on many different occasions. But mostly I carry just because I can.
3. That last said, who are we to cast dispersions upon this man for exercising any of his rights? Just because he does not choose to where protective riding gear, that is a choice that he makes. I support him exercising his right to be comfortable, I support him evaluating risk vs reward and making a decision even and especially if others might not agree with his personal choice.
4. I believe strongly in many things, not the least of which is the right to keep and bear arms. I also believe that seatbelts, helmets, and life jackets save lives and that the US Government does not have any legal right to mandate that I where a single one of them.

wyocarp
June 23, 2010, 02:38 PM
I think that the practice of law abiding citizens hiding their guns has done more to erode gun rights than the ones that wear them openly.

LiquidTension
June 24, 2010, 09:01 AM
I saw the same thing a few years ago except the guy was on a supersport. What's the big deal? If he wants to let everyone know he's carrying, so be it. Whether or not he's allowed to is a matter for the police. I pocket carry when I'm riding so it's never an issue.

zootsuit002
June 24, 2010, 09:50 AM
wyocarp +1

clamman
June 24, 2010, 10:18 AM
I keep mine in the windshield bag when riding

rattletrap1970
June 24, 2010, 10:48 AM
I wasn't even going to chime in on this but I have to. Open AND Concealed are BOTH legal in CT. Open carry somehow became unfashionable and over time it was taken as gospel that it was not allowed. That is OUR fault. It is a prime example of how you lose rights that aren't exercised.

As for all the biased stuff about the biker. You know any? If you did I doubt you would have made the comments you did. I have high handlebars and also have lots of "color" and some chrome. If someone looks at me and thinks that I'm trying to be "bad" or "trying to be a tough guy" that fallacy is on them. Watch less "Sons of Anarchy" and "Gangworld".

If the cops want to pull me over or arrest me for lawful carry, let them, there are a lot more guns I will buy on the state's dime when they lose the lawsuit.

TexasRifleman
June 24, 2010, 12:09 PM
Guess I just ignore guns. I see a guy on a bike with an exposed handgun I'm probably more interested in what kind of gun he likes than whether he has one or not.

Always bugs me when it's called "putting on a show" or "brandishing" or any other term for a legal activity. Why do we as gun people fall into that way of thinking?

Harley Rider 55
June 24, 2010, 12:17 PM
He needs to dress around the handgun. The long gun is OK.

CTGunner
June 24, 2010, 08:02 PM
I wasn't even going to chime in on this but I have to. Open AND Concealed are BOTH legal in CT. Open carry somehow became unfashionable and over time it was taken as gospel that it was not allowed. That is OUR fault. It is a prime example of how you lose rights that aren't exercised.

As for all the biased stuff about the biker. You know any? If you did I doubt you would have made the comments you did. I have high handlebars and also have lots of "color" and some chrome. If someone looks at me and thinks that I'm trying to be "bad" or "trying to be a tough guy" that fallacy is on them. Watch less "Sons of Anarchy" and "Gangworld".

If the cops want to pull me over or arrest me for lawful carry, let them, there are a lot more guns I will buy on the state's dime when they lose the lawsuit.

I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else. And I didn't think he was a tough guy because of the bike. If you read my post, I never said that. In fact I complimented the bike. I referred to the rider. It was the combo of his bike, clothing, tats, and a-hole style of weaving in and out of traffic that lead me to my conclusion (right or wrong) that he was trying to be a bad ass.

As for displaying the gun - when 911 gets 20 calls from concerned mothers who are driving their toddlers to day care about a man on a bike with gun, I doubt it helps the cause. The culture in CT is not the same as the culture in other parts of the country, that's unfortunate but it's a reality.

TeamPrecisionIT
June 24, 2010, 08:41 PM
I know this is going to sound condescending, but if he would have been wearing the proper protective gear then it wouldn't have been a problem. I cc while riding and my jacket does not blow up with the wind so it isn't a problem. Even a decent vest actually buttoned up front would have prevented this issue.

But just to say it, we carry handguns for protection, but won't wear proper protective gear to protect from the asphalt in the event of a crash, which statistically speaking, will happen more frequently for a motorcyclist. For the record, I am 100% pro-gun and 100% pro-riding.

Damian

I never said anything about a government mandated anything, like can be seen, I said I am 100% pro-gun and 100% pro-riding. That pic with the AK is great but that is not a showing of trying to conceal in anyway, which is great IMO. We shouldn't have to hide our sidearms or long arms, but if we are trying to conceal then it should be concealed.

Riding a bike involves the assumption of risk, just as carrying/owning a firearm for self-defense purposes. I don't know about anyone else, but one of my main goals in life is to become an old shooter and old rider, it makes for better stories. So I choose to defend myself with the best tools I can in both areas of my passion(s). Wearing protective gear while riding, to me, is not different than carrying a sidearm, whether concealed or open: They are for the .0000000001% chance of the worst happening. As riders and CCWers/OCers, we should always account for the risk involved with life and the obstacles it throws at us.

Damian

fireside44
June 24, 2010, 09:00 PM
I worry that this type of 'behavior' really has the potential to turn 'reasonable' people against our right to carry.

Then they ain't "reasonable" people. You can't make everyone content. I think it was his way of flipping the bird at the world and I salute him for it, even though his choice of handlebars is darwin award winning material.

All that aside, more power to him. Free country.

I just felt like this guy was putting on a show for no good reason.

Yeah, but the price of admission is nothing to complain about.

cisco11
June 24, 2010, 09:56 PM
You girls all have guns?
Cisco

bigfatdave
June 25, 2010, 08:22 AM
As for displaying the gun - when 911 gets 20 calls from concerned mothers who are driving their toddlers to day care about a man on a bike with gun, I doubt it helps the cause. Actually, when the 911 operator points out to the ninny that they are calling in a legal action, it does help.

rscalzo
June 25, 2010, 10:05 AM
handlebars way up in the air

That was probably a violation. CT. only allows a 15" rise. Of course most non-bikers see a 10 rise and thing they are 60's era ape hangers.

full sized handgun stuffed in his waste band.
Stuffed in a waistband is vastly different than secured in a suitable holster. Are you saying it was unsecured? If so, that is exceedingly foolish.

rattletrap1970
June 25, 2010, 10:07 AM
Actually you are incorrect.
The law was changed three years ago.
The law now reads you cannot have your hands over the height of your shoulders.

History: P.A. 07-167 amended Subsec. (b) by replacing provision re handlebars more than 15 inches above uppermost portion of seat with provision re handlebars more than the height of operator's shoulders, effective July 1, 2007.

CTGunner
June 25, 2010, 05:48 PM
Stuffed in a waistband is vastly different than secured in a suitable holster. Are you saying it was unsecured? If so, that is exceedingly foolish.

Yes. Stuffed in under the belt. As far as I could tell the only retention was the belt itself.

wyocarp
June 25, 2010, 10:18 PM
As for displaying the gun - when 911 gets 20 calls from concerned mothers who are driving their toddlers to day care about a man on a bike with gun, I doubt it helps the cause.

I totally disagree. The "20" calls from concerned mothers will help cement in the police officers minds that, YES, this is legal, and it will help the mothers to understand that not everyone with a gun is a criminal.

svaz
June 25, 2010, 10:32 PM
I understand the calls not to pre-judge, but frankly, we learn to dress to impress in high school and never really out grow it. We dress as we wish to be seen. This guy obviously wanted to send off the bad-ass biker dude vibes and it seems he succeeded.

If you want to dress to a stereotype, don't be surprised when you are assumed to be, and treated like, the stereotype.

Actually, I think this would look worse on "bikers" than on "gunners".

Keep the rubber-side down.

CTGunner
June 25, 2010, 10:38 PM
I totally disagree. The "20" calls from concerned mothers will help cement in the police officers minds that, YES, this is legal, and it will help the mothers to understand that not everyone with a gun is a criminal

How will the mothers gain a better understanding? They are there to place the calls. As far as they are concerned they were just being good citizens.

bigfatdave
June 26, 2010, 07:49 AM
How will the mothers gain a better understanding? When they are told by the 911 operator to stop being ninnies and not to waste anyone's time calling in a legal activity.

daehawc
June 26, 2010, 08:27 AM
I carry in this same manner quite often, not because I want to be seen in any specific way but because its hot and sometimes your shirt rides up (my gun is in a holster though).

I hate the statement that carrying and wearing protective gear are the same thing. Wearing gear is a personal choice to prevent injury during an 'accident.' Carrying a gun is a choice to protect the lives of me and mine against a violent miscreant.

I fully understand that many things I do may kill me or leave me injured and I can accept that and train my self accordingly. I refuse however, to allow myself to be at the mercy of the dredges of society and rely on their good will to allow me or my family to go home alive at the end of the day.

76shuvlinoff
June 26, 2010, 08:28 AM
Many of those"bad-ass biker" dudes are some of the greatest most open minded people you'll ever meet. Most of them are reluctant to judge a book by it's cover and most wouldn't care how someone else judges them.
Try those apes chrome and color on for size and get some wind in your face, it broadens your perspective.

As for the method of carry, probably not the best choice even in a 3 piece suit.

tpaw
June 26, 2010, 09:48 PM
wyocarp states: "I think that the practice of law abiding citizens hiding their guns has done more to erode gun rights than the ones that wear them openly"

Can you please explain that? :confused:

76shuvlinoff
June 26, 2010, 10:58 PM
wyocarp states: "I think that the practice of law abiding citizens hiding their guns has done more to erode gun rights than the ones that wear them openly"

Can you please explain that?

I believe the point is that by hiding sidearms for many years now they are deemed unacceptable, shocking, and offensive to the "civilized" non carrying folks around us.

tpaw
June 26, 2010, 11:02 PM
I believe the point is that by hiding sidearms for many years now they are deemed unacceptable, shocking, and offensive to the "civilized" non carrying folks around us.

Sounds plausible.

Harley Rider 55
June 27, 2010, 09:12 PM
"I understand the calls not to pre-judge, but frankly, we learn to dress to impress in high school and never really out grow it."

In the early 70's, high school students dressed how they were told, not to impress. Now, nobody tells me how to dress.

Owen Sparks
June 27, 2010, 09:42 PM
I would NEVER ride a bike, horse or 4 wheeler with a gun attatched to my belt anywhere behind the hip or slung across my back. Your chances of going down on a bike are much greater than your chances of getting into a gun fight and if you land on that three pound chunk of steel it could mean instiant paralisis. I would choose an IPSC style holster with a reverse cant carried forward of the hip. It would much easier to conceal on a bike because people behind you could not see it, and if you did take a spill it would not be between your spine and the pavement.

TexasRifleman
June 27, 2010, 10:22 PM
wyocarp states: "I think that the practice of law abiding citizens hiding their guns has done more to erode gun rights than the ones that wear them openly"

Can you please explain that?

As mentioned, for many years only dishonest people "hid" guns. Law abiding citizens had nothing to hide so they wore them out in public.

MCgunner
June 27, 2010, 10:29 PM
Sounds like a punk, probably not a permit holder. People who carry legally most times know the importance of a good holster. Just a guess you understand, but that's what it sounds like to me. I pocket carry most times, do have a tuckable. On the bike, though, I'm usually just pocket carrying a 9x19 Kel Tec. See no need for more and it is easy to conceal that way.

FTSESQ
June 27, 2010, 10:47 PM
The bike was impressive, handlebars way up in the air and lots of nice looking colors and chrome. The rider looked like a 'bad dude' and was clearly trying to convey a 'tough guy' image.

You just described half the guys that I ride with... well, you described what they look like on the weekends. Yup! You described a Public Defender, a Prosecutor, a Bailiff, a Stock Broker, a Dentist, and two CPA's... You see, as the Bike culture has become accepted by the general public, and have become "main stream cool", you really can't judge a book by its cover. Look at the Discovery Channel shows; American Chopper, Biker Build Off, etc. Miami Ink, L.A. Ink... Bikes, Choppers, Tattoos; These things have moved from the "wrong side of the tracks" to Main St. Doctors, Lawyers, CPAs, Moms... All now have found a love of things previously taboo. Don't judge a book by its cover.

On the Open Carry thing... I just think it's dumb unless you are in woods or in a rural area. If I ever need to use my pistol to defend my self, I would prefer my attacker to not know that I was packing. Sure, carrying in the open may deter an attacker, having him move on to easier pray, but if he could see the gun on my hip, and was determined... He may just shoot (or stab, or whatever) first. After all its easier to take a wallet off of a dead guy. Plus, a gun would fetch a few hundred bucks minimum, more than the cash that most people carry around every day in their wallet.

P.S. Its not usually the guy on a bike with a gun that you need worry about. Its the one with the ball-peen hammer that means business.

MCgunner
June 27, 2010, 11:30 PM
Well, you'd think doctors and lawyers could afford something from Milt Sparks....:rolleyes: That's why I figure it was a punk, one percenter, whatever. Yes, they do exist. Not everybody rides with da Wild Hawgs. :D

FTSESQ
June 27, 2010, 11:38 PM
Well, you'd think doctors and lawyers could afford something from Milt Sparks...

Touche... Well played Sir, well played.

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