45LC vs 357mag


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Oldnoob
June 23, 2010, 02:38 PM
Which caliber do you like better? And what was the reason? If you want, add the platform of your choice.

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rcmodel
June 23, 2010, 03:04 PM
I didn't vote as I don't prefer one over the other.
I presently own three .357's and two 45 LC's.
The question is, Best for what?

I prefer the .357's for long range varmint hunting and busting rocks at 150 yards because they shoot much flatter at long range.
Not so much for HD or SD use as the muzzle blast inside a house or car would set your hair on fire & knock your fillings loose.

The 45's are better suited for that, as they are much lower pressure rounds without as much shock & awe in closed spaces, and they make bigger holes. They are also capable of much better performance on large game then the .357 if hunting is in the cards.

rc

SharpsDressedMan
June 23, 2010, 03:21 PM
If you love muzzle blast, especially in enclosures, like buildings or vehicles, then the .357 is the way to go. If you might shoot in self defense or hunt without ear protection, then the .45 Colt is a little easier on the ears, and still packs a wallup.

Blue Brick
June 23, 2010, 03:29 PM
They are also capable of much better performance on large game then the .357 if hunting is in the cards.

Handloads?

seanie!
June 23, 2010, 03:36 PM
I voted .357 solely because of ammo price and availability.

rcmodel
June 23, 2010, 03:38 PM
Yep, handloads, or Buffalo Bore or Corbon factory loads in a strong revolver.

rc

Tallinar
June 23, 2010, 03:49 PM
.45 Colt has my vote.

.45 Colt - slow, heavy bullet
.357 map - fast, light bullet

For self defense, I favor the .45 Colt due to less chance of overpenetration given the slower velocity.

For sporting/hunting, I still favor the .45 Colt for it's versatility. It's capable of pipsqueek plinking, but can also exceed .44 magnum ballistic performance if pushed to +P in modern firearms.

I should also qualify my stance by saying I am a handloader. If all I used was factory ammo, I would prefer .38/.357 mag.

DWFan
June 23, 2010, 04:15 PM
.357 Mag = fast, light bullet? Maybe in factory ammo.
Lyman 215gr #358627 SWC over 9.5gr of AA #7 gives 1075+ fps in a 6" barrel revolver. The same bullet and 10.0gr of AA#9 gave 875 fps from a 2.5" barrel revolver. (Sounds like a good SP101 load.)
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLyman358627.htm

RonBernert
June 23, 2010, 04:15 PM
I like shooting the .45LC more. The .357 has more options for SD. It is a dead even with me, but I voted .357 because if I were to be in a gunight TODAY, RIGHT NOW, that's what I have on me. Yesterday it would've been the LC. :p

Rexster
June 23, 2010, 04:22 PM
I don't believe in simple answers to complex questions. I like the wide-ranging utility of the .357 Magnum, the size range of guns that chamber it, small snubby to sixguns to lever rifles, its sound and fury with defensive loads, and its devastating effect against an armed opponent one summer night in 1993.

I like the .45 plain old vanilla Colt for its mild recoil while delivering a huge bullet, and the wonderful handling characteristics of the single action sixguns that are the natural home of the .45 plain old vanilla Colt.

IOW, I like them for different reasons, and see no reason rank them.

rcmodel
June 23, 2010, 04:23 PM
For self defense, I favor the .45 Colt due to less chance of overpenetration given the slower velocity.Well I don't know about that.

The .45 Colt was designed from the getgo to shoot calvary horses out from under the riders.

Even the standard factory load 255/850 will shoot clear through most medium size big game animals.

rc

8830
June 23, 2010, 04:37 PM
I voted for 357 since I use it for everything I do.

Blue Brick
June 23, 2010, 05:12 PM
How does 45 Colt compare in a rifle vs. the 357 Magnum? I would like to know because, I have been researching the 357 Magnum vs. 30WCF and it seems that with the similar grains and the same barrel length, a hot 357 Magnum keeps up (give or take about 100fps) with the 30WCF while using less powder at a lower pressure.

rcmodel
June 23, 2010, 05:26 PM
Standard loads?

A 158 grain 357 that does 1,279 in a 4" barrel does 1,735 in a 20" carbine.

A standard pressure 250 grain .45 Colt that gets 969 in a 7 1/2" gets 1,097 in a 16" carbine.

If you look at real +P carbine .45 Colt loads they will blow the .357 away out of a handgun or carbine.

rc

md7
June 23, 2010, 05:27 PM
oldnoob,

i voted for the .357 mag. it is a common cartridge, can shoot cheaper .38's, has an excellent track record for SD, and can be used as a woods/hunting sidearm in the lower 48 states. my favorite platform to shoot it from is the Ruger GP100 in 4" bbl. also i like the 3" bbl GP100 (with older small grips) and 3" bbl SW 19/66.

Blue Brick
June 23, 2010, 05:37 PM
Does the 45 Colt have a flatter trajectory? Which uses more power for the hotter loads? To me it’s all about the balance of cost vs. benefit. Is the 45 Colt a short range round?

Arkansas Paul
June 23, 2010, 05:49 PM
I voted for .45 Colt, but I love the .357 as well. I'm just nostalgic about the single action Colts. I know you can get em in .357 too and they're great. But there's just something about a single action and a big 250 grain chunk of lead that gets me all warm and fuzzy inside.

mothermopar
June 23, 2010, 05:49 PM
If you handload, or plan to, the 45 Colt is the better all around choice... why? It can be loaded to plinking levels up to an including loads that surpass the 44 magnum and approach 454 casull performance.

The 357 while one of THE best rounds for handguns, can't supercede 44 magnum loadings (handloads).

Additionally, the 45 Colt throws bowling balls compared to the 357's baseballs.

Then again, if you want to CCW... the 357 comes in smaller packages.

I own a 357 and am getting a 45 Colt. Love the 357... gonna love the 45 Colt. You won't find yourself 'wanting' with either of these fine rounds, IMO. Its a win-win.

rcmodel
June 23, 2010, 05:59 PM
Is the 45 Colt a short range round?
a hot 357 Magnum keeps up (give or take about 100fps) with the 30WCF All pistol caliber carbines are "short range" rounds.

All pistol bullets have a very poor ballistics coefficient, and drop like rocks at extended range compared to a rifle bullet with much higher & better ballistic coefficient.

They may start out equal at the muzzle, but by 100 - 150 yards they will always lose the race.

rc

md7
June 23, 2010, 06:06 PM
i think mothermopar hit the nail on the head. we may have preferences for one or the other, but neither is wrong choice.

Blue Brick
June 23, 2010, 06:12 PM
Understanding the limitations of pistol calibers, does the 45 Colt have a flatter trajectory?

Tallinar
June 23, 2010, 06:16 PM
How does 45 Colt compare in a rifle vs. the 357 Magnum? I would like to know because, I have been researching the 357 Magnum vs. 30WCF and it seems that with the similar grains and the same barrel length, a hot 357 Magnum keeps up (give or take about 100fps) with the 30WCF while using less powder at a lower pressure.

A rifle in .45 Colt can be pushed to deliver heavier bullets at up to and beyond the same speeds that you'd find in .357 mag. Doing so, however, requires you to push the pressures up well beyond SAAMI guidelines -- up to around 30,000 PSI, compared to the 14,000 PSI indicated by SAAMI. This is not as dangerous as it may look on paper at first though, as modern rifles chambered in .45 Colt (model 92's, model 94's) should be more than capable of digesting a steady diet of 30,000 PSI. The SAAMI guideline still needs to be adhered to with SAA replicas and older rifles.

I've read of some individuals pushing .45 Colt up to 40,000 PSI and reaching bullet weights and velocities that start to resemble light .45-70 loads, but I personally will never feel comfortable attempting such a thing. I'd sooner just buy a rifle in .45-70. :)

Water-Man
June 23, 2010, 06:23 PM
I have and love both but if forced to choose just one I'd go with .357mag because of cost and availability for a non-reloader.

Tallinar
June 23, 2010, 06:31 PM
.357 Mag = fast, light bullet? Maybe in factory ammo.
Lyman 215gr #358627 SWC over 9.5gr of AA #7 gives 1075+ fps in a 6" barrel revolver. The same bullet and 10.0gr of AA#9 gave 875 fps from a 2.5" barrel revolver. (Sounds like a good SP101 load.)

I don't believe you're going to find an extensive amount of 215gr factory ammunition for .357 magnum, so the point remains, hehe.

Coming from the standard school of thought for each respective cartridge, a .357 magnum will generally be used to deliver a ligher bullet than a .45 Colt, but at faster speeds. In contrast, the .45 Colt will generally be used to deliver a heavier bullet, but at slower speeds.

fireside44
June 23, 2010, 07:02 PM
I shoot lots of lead, so my vote is for .45 Colt. Can't get max velocities without heavy leading using wheel weight alloys out of a .357.

To be honest though, the .44 special is superior to both of them IMO except in terms of guns and ammo selection/availability.

Lucky Derby
June 23, 2010, 07:06 PM
I like both and own more than one of each. I voted for the .45 Colt. The reason is in order to achieve the power the .357 is famous for it has heavy recoil and muzzle blast. The . 45 does it without so much drama. It is just so much more pleasent to shoot and still have serious power. It can even be loaded to have incredible power in the right firearms. I will admit that it is nice to be able to walk into walmart and buy inexpensive (relitively) ammo. And shoot some light .38's now and then, or even regularly. I just wish someone would offer the .45 in a K/L frame size 5 shot DA revolver with a 3" barrel. The closest thing I know of is the S&W 696 .44 Special ( I have one).

fireside44
June 23, 2010, 07:10 PM
I just wish someone would offer the .45 in a K/L frame size 5 shot DA revolver with a 3" barrel. The closest thing I know of is the S&W 696 .44 Special ( I have one).

Interarms Rossi model 720. K-frame size with J-frame sized grip. 44 special.

Dr.Rob
June 23, 2010, 07:42 PM
For a long time 45 Colt brass and bullets weren't up to being 'pushed' the way they could be in a Ruger frame. Many 45 Colts (think SAA clones) aren't built to take the kind of higher pressure loads that are available (think Buffalo Bore).

If you pick the right PLATFORM, then 45 Colt can be on par with 44 Magnum.

357's can (not all do) have smaller cylinders and make for a smaller overall revolver. And while some really punishing 357's are out there (some of the 180gr stuff is awe inspiring) again I wouldn't shoot it in an SAA or clone.

I picked .357 because everything I'd want a 45 Colt for, I already have a 44 Magnum for.

Bula
June 23, 2010, 08:17 PM
There is no 'better' cartridge. If you're on the fence as to which one you'll get next, my bet is that you'll eventually own both. Both are very versatile if you reload.

coosbaycreep
June 23, 2010, 08:17 PM
I voted .357 because it's cheaper to shoot, and more practical for plinking/SD.

Unless you have a ruger or something similar, you can't load .45 to it's full potential, so it offers nothing that a .44 won't do if you're looking for power.

It costs more than .44 too.

Tallinar
June 23, 2010, 11:16 PM
Forty-five sounds cooler off the tongue than three fifty-seven. That alone makes .45 Colt better.

Publius1688
June 23, 2010, 11:26 PM
Didn't vote---because I think they are both excellent cartidges for their proper applications, any many others have pointed out.

dashootist
June 23, 2010, 11:37 PM
45LC because I can load black powder as well as smokeless. A cartridge filled up with BP just feels right in a revolver.

1858
June 24, 2010, 12:26 AM
I have a Python, a GP100 (4"), a GP100 (3") and a Marlin 1894CSS all in .357 Magnum. However, I have two Blackhawks, two USFA Rodeos, one Redhawk, one Super Redhawk and one Marlin 1894CB in .45 Colt. After I pick up an SP101 I'm done with the .357 Magnum but I want a lot more .45 Colts so my vote is for the .45 Colt. In truth, I like .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and .45 Colt ... there is no loser here!!

:)

robctwo
June 24, 2010, 02:24 AM
I have a few of each, and hand load for both. K frame light 38s are more fun to shoot 500 of. N frame .45 Colt medium loads is more pleasant to shoot than K frame .357 medium charges, and slightly more pleasant than N frame .357. .45 Colt Ruger full loads is more pleasant than .357 full load Ruger to me.

I'm shooting more .38 and light .45, but have more confidence in full power .45 for deling with trouble in normal pistol ranges (that's out to 50 yards to me).

Gryffydd
June 24, 2010, 02:56 AM
I don't think I could possibly pick from between these two as they're my two favorite handgun rounds. I reload both, and both are just so versatile.

The .45 Colt has the advantage in that it has a much better top end capable of taking larger game. The .357 has the advantage in the variety of revolvers chambered in it, and doing a lot with less powder and lead.

It's certainly not a matter of the .45 Colt being big and slow and the .357 being slow and fast as the .45 Colt can do big AND fast. However, it can't quite push a 250gr bullet as fast as the .357 can push a 125gr, but it's not all that far off.

Edit: I just checked out the results so far. Pretty much tied! That sounds about right for these two.

MCgunner
June 24, 2010, 11:37 AM
Damn, I wrote a long post for the .357 over the .45ACP. Then, I notice you said COLT. My bad. I voted .357 against .45ACP, but against the .45 Colt, I am quite undecided. Both make great outdoor calibers, but the .357 has the edge in self defense, more carriable sized guns available, great street record, so I think my vote still stands.

CraigC
June 24, 2010, 03:40 PM
I like the big bores and will always choose one over the .357. The .45Colt can cover the .357's spectrum and much more.

While it is common perception that the Colt SAA is a weak design that must be held to SAAMI-spec pressures, this is not really the case. SAAMI pressure standards are held in deference to the very old guns chambering the cartridge. Post-war Colt's, replicas, S&W's and the mid-frame New Vaquero can all be loaded to 20-21,000psi. Dave Scovill designed the RCBS 270SAA bullet specifically for the SAA and he likes to drive them to 1100fps with 2400. Yes, in Colt's.


And while some really punishing 357's are out there (some of the 180gr stuff is awe inspiring) again I wouldn't shoot it in an SAA or clone.
This is no issue whatsoever. Except for the very early Colt SAA's, which were not properly heat treated, the SAA is one of the strongest .357's available while still being of appropriate size for the cartridge. Its cylinder is larger in diameter than any mid-frame double action like the venerable 686 or GP-100. Nope, there is no reason to worry about hurting a .357 SAA or replica.

A better solution than either cartridge is the .44Spl. In mid-frame guns like the Colt SAA, replicas or mid-frame Blackhawks (factory and custom), it can be loaded to higher pressures than the old .45 due to its thicker cylinder walls. The 1200fps Keith load is no problem but we tend to prefer the 950fps Skeeter load for everyday use. It is a much more efficient cartridge than the .45Colt at these power levels with a greater margin of safety. However, the .44Spl must be handloaded to see it's true potential.

In large frame Rugers everything changes and the .45 can be loaded equal to the .44Mag, up to 32,000CUP. The Winchester and Marlin 94's can be loaded a little hotter than this level.

In custom five shot Rugers, it can be loaded to 50-55,000psi which renders the .454 unnecessary. The late model Winchester 1892's and replicas are close to this strength range (up to 45,000psi). They are the strongest of the pistol cartridge leverguns.

mjyeagle
June 24, 2010, 03:54 PM
45 colt packs way more wallop especialy reloading for them with a model 94 or blackhawk but the 357 is great round too i have both and prefer 45 colt

Wolf Lies Down
June 24, 2010, 05:50 PM
Oldnoob,

I like both rounds. However, for me, the .357 Magnum is still the king of self defense. I prefer it over the .44 Magnum, even. The .357 Magnum has such a high, one-shot-stop capability that if you hit someone with it, well..........they're gonna stop.....and drop. Couple that with the ammo that's available out there, such as Federal HydraShok and others, and I feel very comfortable with the .357. Add those to factors to the knowledge that, for the most part, gunfights last less than 3 seconds and that consist of very few rounds being fired, the five rounds you will have in your revolver should be enough.

If you are "heading" somewhere with the question you are asking, please be more specific. What I mean is this: Since you are only asking about the comparison of the two cartridges, the above is my answer. If you want to use what is said here as support for a specific arguement such as, "The guys on the forum recommended the .xxxxx cartridge over the .xxxxx as the best for concealed carry!", then understand THAT is NOT what I'm saying, for a whole laundry-list of reasons.

Also, with those two cartridges, we're talking revolvers only. If I were going to carry a semi-auto, I have more decisions to make and a lot more in the way of options and factors to consider.

Ain't it all wonderful?!!!!!

kbbailey
June 24, 2010, 06:05 PM
I own seven .357's including a carbine and 2 .45colts...
I gave up on deer hunting with the .357 because of deafening muzzle blast and poor performance on whitetails. Thinking back, I probably took 8-9 deer with the .357 and never had a "clean" kill...
The .45colt has performed much better for me, and your drawers don't hit the ground, and your ears bleed every time you pull the trigger.

MCgunner
June 24, 2010, 08:03 PM
Our deer are smaller, but I've had two clean kills with a revolver and the .357. I've had numerous clean kills on hogs, none over 200 lbs. I stopped a charging hog with a 4" Rossi 971 firing a 165 grain SWC. He was shot too far back with a 7 mag and wounded. Shot placement is everything. That .357 kept me out of the hospital, though, though I did have to sit down and control my breathing after that one. Helluva adrenaline rush. :D

orionengnr
June 24, 2010, 09:21 PM
I currently own .357s in K and N frames, and have owned .357s in J and L frames. To me, the .357 shines in the K frame. I carry my 4" M66 on occasion, my 5 1/2" M27 not at all.

IMHO, the .41 Mag and .45LC in N frame are not really that much larger...once you get to a ~40 oz revolver, a few onces more or less is not a big deal. If I am going to carry an N-frame, it will be a 4" in .41 Mag or .45LC.

Tell the truth, I carry an N-frame probably three times as much as the K-frame. I am only 5'9" and 150 lbs, so all of these revolvers are winter carry guns for me.

EnsignJimmy
June 24, 2010, 09:38 PM
I used to own some three guns in .357 Magnum . . . a rifle and two revolvers. I've pared that down to a single revolver, and that's a Ruger SP-101 snubby. Traded the rifle and revolver in for a new Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt.

Every other revolver I own is in .45 Colt . . . three pre-1898 Colt 1878 double-actions, three Colt New Services, a Uberti clone of a Colt SAA, a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk, and a Ruger Redhawk. I also own two rifles in the caliber: The Marlin from above, and a H&R Buffalo Classic.

Heavy bullets at moderate velocities let me reach out and touch things from very far away. I'm minute of pie-plate at 200 yards with a revolver (from a rest and/or a suitably braced position, anyway.) For putting big holes in big things, it's no contest. And I like putting big holes in things. :D

420Stainless
June 24, 2010, 09:53 PM
They are both fantastic. I have a slight preference for big bores, so I voted .45 Colt, but I'd sure miss the .357 Mag. if I had to lose it.

BCCL
June 24, 2010, 10:18 PM
A year ago I would have said .357, but since then I have started shooting 45 Colt and it has become my favorite of the two.

FTSESQ
June 24, 2010, 10:37 PM
I voted 357 because Colt didn't make a Python in 45LC...

GRIZ22
June 24, 2010, 10:49 PM
I voted 357. You have a much wider variety of factory ammo and power levels. It's also easier to find. 45 LC needs reloading to perform to it's utmost.

Bluehawk
June 24, 2010, 10:59 PM
My vote is .45 Colt...it's easier to see the holes! :what:

md7
June 25, 2010, 01:12 AM
wow, i knew the .45 LC was a good cartridge, but i am surprised to see this many folks like it so much. not that this is a bad thing.

wonder why we don't see more models available in 45 LC ? i think a GP100 or something like a SW 686 or 620 in this caliber would be kind of cool. would it have to be a five shot cylinder in a frame that size to make it work?

MCgunner
June 25, 2010, 09:34 AM
Kinda takes an N frame to get a 6 shot .45 Colt. Takes a big, beefy gun like the Rugers to shoot the hot stuff. I'm shorry, but I ain't shootin' my hot loads in no Italian 73 clone. Kinda like shooting full charge 777 in a brass frame Colt clone, gonna wear it out post haste. .357s will work even in J frames. They make a better choice for a concealed carry. There have been small frame .45s, but they're limited to original SAAMI limits. They are "big and slow" and most, including me, would rather go with a .357. Even the reloads are easier to carry.

That's the down side to the .45 Colt. I love the round for outdoor use in my 4 5/8" blackhawk, bit I have other calibers for carry. The .45 Colt simply lacks the versatility of a gun chambered in .357 magnum, thus, my vote for it even though high end .45 Colt has more power in the right revolver.

CraigC
June 25, 2010, 11:45 AM
How could anybody figure that a cartridge that can be loaded for anything from mouse to elephants is "less" versatile than the .357??? The .45Colt covers the entire .357 spectrum and then some and does so without making your ears bleed. Which is why the only .357's I own are destined to become something more useful.

fireside44
June 25, 2010, 12:05 PM
The .45Colt covers the entire .357 spectrum and then some and does so without making your ears bleed.

Yeah, but most people wear ear protection when shooting so other than SD scenarios, it isn't really an issue.

Which is why the only .357's I own are destined to become something more useful.

I wouldn't be caught dead at the range or defending myself with one of those abominations.

CraigC
June 25, 2010, 12:21 PM
Yeah, but most people wear ear protection when shooting so other than SD scenarios, it isn't really an issue.
You do realize that there's a world full of woods, fields and hills outside that indoor range, right?

Marvin KNox
June 25, 2010, 03:03 PM
It depends, of course, on what you want it for.

For a concealed J-frame type situation, the answer is obvious. .357 all the way - either with low or high velocity rounds as you see fit.

For packing in bear country or for bedside use, the answer is obvious. 45LC all the way - either with max loads approaching some 44 magnum rounds for the furry guys, or with low speed hollow point stuff for bedside social programs.

Hunting situations bring in many other elements to be considered.

Vlad357
June 25, 2010, 03:09 PM
I voted for the .357 because I shoot one more then everything else put together. I reload a lot, almost all .38 P+ to .357 mag loads. My everyday carry is a Taurus MODEL 66 SS 6 inch, a little big, but I'm a big guy and I don't mind. I admit I could do the same with a .45LC, but I don't, just habit I guess. I do keep a set of ear plugs in my pocket and ear phones out in the barn and on the tractor for any loud noises. I also enjoy holding a stick of dynamite in my hand when I light off a few full house loads as well.

Gryffydd
June 25, 2010, 03:57 PM
How could anybody figure that a cartridge that can be loaded for anything from mouse to elephants is "less" versatile than the .357???

One must also consider the guns for which each are chambered. The .357 wins on versatility by a landslide in that department. Also one must consider the quantity of factory ammunition that is available for the .357/.38.

But yes, from a strictly power perspective, the .45 Colt wins hands down.

However, it's not very good at sending a 125gr target round downrange with only a couple of grains of powder. The amazing economy of the .38/.357 platform must be considered as well.

dakota1911
June 25, 2010, 07:33 PM
Have several guns in both calibers but picked the .45 LC over .357 Mag by a slim margine. Like to shoot both. My .45 LCs are all Rugers although if I stumble across a .45 LC Anaconda in good shape I will probably pick that up also.

Nomad
June 25, 2010, 08:26 PM
I would go with a 45 Colt every time. I hate the muzzle blast of a 357 and I like the big hole a 45 Colt makes. I like any strong platform that alows for hot loads when needed. Put a 250-300 gr slug at 1000-1200 fps into almost any game in North America with proper shot placement and it isn't going far. IMO the 357 is marginal at best for anything over deer size game.

Blue Brick
June 28, 2010, 02:24 AM
If I remember it correctly, during the Second World War the British studied the 38 S&W (not Special) compared to their 45 cartridge in real world combat conditions (.455 Webley??) and concluded that the 200gr 38 was equivalent to a 265gr 45.

Dnaltrop
June 28, 2010, 05:14 PM
.45 Colt.

Easier to manipulate... like those giant crayons.

less painful to shoot. I'm fine tossing gentle boulders, and once I have one that isn't a replica... I have the option of eliminating my hearing later on.

Love .38 spl. though.

Sport45
June 28, 2010, 10:23 PM
For just shooting with normal loads, I find the .45 Colt to be more pleasant. But I voted for .357 because of it's versatility in allowing one to also shoot .38 specials. I did not consider the hot .45 loadings because not all handguns can handle them.

gringolet
June 29, 2010, 08:13 PM
Taurus made the 450...a 2 inch mid-size (rougly L frame I'd guess)..
5 shot...and can be modified to accept 45acp moonclips also (check out
at tenringprecision). I own one and it has been a pretty decent little revolver,
but not really sure if in 45 colt I'd prefer it for self-defense over a snubby 357?
The Tarus 450 can still be found from time-to-time on the gun sale web sites,
but most seem to have been scooped up and sadly, no longer made.

XxWINxX94
June 29, 2010, 08:23 PM
I like the .45 colt in almost any revolver with a barrel bigger than 4''.
I have a Taurus Judge that shoots th 2.5 410 and the 45. It's got a red, carbon fiber sight and is pinpoint accurate.

.357 is also a great round, got a Ruger Security Six in that.

ijosef
June 30, 2010, 01:11 PM
I'm sure many of you have already read this article, but I thought I'd post it anyway. It's entitled "The .45 Colt sucks! Heresy? Listen-up before you blow a gasket!" The author really doesn't like the round for some reason.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_174_29/ai_n8968390/pg_3/?tag=content;col1

Of course the follow-up rebuttal article is great:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_176_29/ai_n13785456/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.22

I would like to get a .45 Colt since I'm such a fan of wheelguns. The ammo seems to be a bit more available now as well, and reloading would be fun. I don't know about the claims that a .45 Colt can surpass a .44 Magnum when loaded to modern high pressures. On paper it looks like a stout .45 Colt +P load is definitely in .44 Magnum territory, but a very hot .44 Mag would still outdo it.

I do wish there were more .45 Colt revolvers on the market, like most.

CraigC
June 30, 2010, 02:09 PM
Magazine publishers playing games with their readers, trying to stir up a controversy to sell more copies. Venturino wrote the same article about the .44Spl. Whether or not he really feels that way he lost a fan that day. Lost any shred of respect I had left when he let the mob string up Taffin on the CastBoolits forum without speaking up for his supposed "friend". Got no use for him.

mothermopar
June 30, 2010, 02:59 PM
Anyone who'd criticize EITHER of these rounds as being inadequate or not worthy of a self defense loading (even hunting within reason) is a moron. Plain and simple. These are two of the most versatile, proven and used handgun calibers EVER. Such things don't occur by accident.

eatont9999
June 30, 2010, 03:23 PM
I would prefer a .357 because there are more carry weapon selections out there, it is also easier to carry extra ammo. If OC is a choice, then sure, you could get a big, mean looking super pistol in .45LC. Not many people would want to mess with you, I bet. I would still buy a .45LC but for range/back yard use. You could probably take a decent size bear, so it has benefits.

kludge
June 30, 2010, 03:48 PM
.45 Colt

It's a subsonic 255gr load that will go clean through a deer, that my 10 year old son can handle (at the limit, but still handle). I can load 180gr plinkers or go all the up to .44 Mag power levels. I can also, if I really want to, shoot 325gr loads that will rattle your fillings loose.

I have both. I load and shoot mostly .38SPL 125gr and 158gr SWC target loads, and carry a SP101 in .357, but my choice is .45 Colt.

Anyone who'd criticize EITHER of these rounds as being inadequate or not worthy of a self defense loading (even hunting within reason) is a moron. Plain and simple. These are two of the most versatile, proven and used handgun calibers EVER. Such things don't occur by accident.

Exactly. All my revolvers are either .357 or .45 Colt for just this reason. (I'm counting my SRH in .454/.45 Colt)

Gryffydd
June 30, 2010, 04:06 PM
On paper it looks like a stout .45 Colt +P load is definitely in .44 Magnum territory, but a very hot .44 Mag would still outdo it.
The hot .45 Colt loads do exceed typical factory .44 Magnum by a good margin. However, the premium boutique .44 Mag stuff still has a slight velocity advantage, though it needs an additional 12,000psi to do it, with the disadvantages that entails.

The 45 seems to be a lot happier with the heavier 300+gr bullets while the .44 has the advantage of being able to shoot 180gr bullets really fast for a scaled up version of the 125 in the 357. The .45 Colt doesn't really have that option.

WatongaJim
June 30, 2010, 11:31 PM
I like both but voted for the 45LC since it's what I always carry in the woods and I enjoy shooting it better than the 357. Handloading is a must.

ijosef
July 1, 2010, 01:57 AM
Well, I plan on owning both. I think that's the consensus of this kind of thread, even if the question is "if you could have only one, which one would you choose?"

Is it safe to assume that the Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull is more than capable of handling extremely hot .45 Colt loads? I might look to pick one of those up, which would also give me the option of trying a hand cannon with hot .454 Casull rounds.

WVMountainBoy
July 1, 2010, 03:43 AM
I picked .357 mainly due to available rounds and versatility. Almost all weapons chambered for it can load the .38 special thus giving you a very wide range of options and available factory loads.

Dnaltrop
July 1, 2010, 12:42 PM
Ijosef

SRH .454 is my plan for joining my soon-to-be brother in law Deer/Hog hunting. I'm not planning on shooting much, just being good company, but if something comes within reasonable distance with one of the more Avid hunters too far out... or enough for Bear should one be charging me. (though if I have enough warning to see it it's probably not interested in me.) Can play with any .45 load then.

At least here in Oregon.

.357 = more plentiful, easier to find off the shelf ammo.

.45 colt = fighting every Taurus Judge owner for any .45 colt off the shelf, if you want something other than Cowboy loads, gotta do it by hand. (Been getting easier lately though)

MCgunner
July 1, 2010, 06:57 PM
I don't care about ammo availability or cost, just case availability and primer cost and availability and those are about the same for the two calibers. :D Unless you're very wealthy, you really don't want to shoot .45 Colt without handloading. You can get .38s for "cheap" for a .357, not that cheap. I mean, they cost me about 5 bucks a hundred, but then so do .45 Colts.

snooperman
July 2, 2010, 04:56 PM
That said , if I could only have one revolver, it would be the 357 magnum because I can reload 100gr --- 200gr bullets for most of my shooting needs ., It is a very versatile caliber.

Quoheleth
July 2, 2010, 10:38 PM
Skeeter Skelton once answered the .44 magnum vs. .357 Magnum debate this way:

"It's the case of a good big man beating the hell out of a good little man."

Same holds true for the .45 Colt vs. .357 Magnum - "a good (even) bigger man beating the hell out of a good little man."

Q

Gryffydd
July 2, 2010, 11:43 PM
I can reload 100gr --- 200gr bullets for most of my shooting needs ., It is a very versatile caliber.

While this is one of the great things about the .357, I just don't see it as an advantage compared to the .45 Colt which can push bullets from 185 to 360. That's an even bigger range :P

Erik M
July 3, 2010, 12:15 AM
I voted .357 solely because of ammo price and availability.
I am of the same opinion. The .357 seems to be more versitile as far as handloading options go.

Harley Rider 55
July 3, 2010, 12:33 PM
I am of the same opinion. The .357 seems to be more versitile as far as handloading options go.


The .45 in a long gun will make you much more at ease in large carnivore country.

CraigC
July 3, 2010, 01:16 PM
Quite the opposite, the .357 is more versatile if you're stuck with factory loads but handloading gives the advantage to the .45Colt (or .44Spl).

snooperman
July 3, 2010, 01:54 PM
why do they out-sell the 45LC? I called my local dealer and he said the vast majority of gun buyers will not buy a 45LC because the 357 magnum is by far more versatile and cheaper for them to shoot. I own a Ruger blackhawk in both 357 magnum and 45LC but I reload. Most people who own handguns do not reload .

Gryffydd
July 3, 2010, 03:53 PM
If versatility is not an advantage for the 357 magnum why do they out-sell the 45LC?
Is versatility the ONLY (http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/complex.htm) reason you can think that people choose a gun?
the vast majority of gun buyers will not buy a 45LC because the 357 magnum is by far more versatile and cheaper for them to shoot.
The vast majority of gun buyers do not reload, but that has nothing to do with the versatility of the round itself, only its popularity. The popularity of the rounds is not in question. In the market as a whole the .357 is obviously more popular. And that's for a lot more reasons that just versatility. It's because of the .45 Colt's black powder baggage, it's because of the .357s excellent marketing, it's because of the .357's suitability in smaller handguns which people favor these days--which is also why the factory .357 loads are so watered down. It's for any number of other reasons that apply, at the least, to most handgunners (i.e. non-reloaders).

If you look at the number of guns sold, I'm sure you'd find that the .357 has a much bigger advantage than the 1.4:1 ratio it has in votes in this poll. But when you get into a more advanced shooting demographic like THR members, you get a lot more reloaders and a lot more knowledgeable people who realize that the .45 Colt is really, really versatile.

Brian Williams
July 3, 2010, 03:58 PM
Both, but I do not have a 45 Colt right now, Someday a nice 5 1/2" SAA will show up in my collection. I want a Case hardened frame and a 1851 Navy grip and nice blue on everything else.

snooperman
July 3, 2010, 04:12 PM
The 357 magnum out-sells the 45 LC because more people find it more to their needs than a 45 LC. Hence it is more versatile because of that reason and the ammo is cheaper because people will buy more of them. If the 45LC was moire versatile more people would buy it making the ammo cheaper for it. Just because people on this web-site, me included , who reload does not mean we rule the market in handgun popularity.

Gryffydd
July 3, 2010, 04:16 PM
Again... what does the popularity and availability of factory loads have to do with the intrinsic values of the .45 Colt? If we look at what each round is capable of the .45 Colt is clearly more versatile. The number of people who take advantage of that versatility is irrelevant. It's there whether they take advantage of it or not. That's like saying the 6.5x55 is less versatile than the .308 Winchester because more people use the .308

snooperman
July 3, 2010, 04:21 PM
why would you want a puny little 45LC? Why not just go with the "BIG BOYS" and get a real gun like a 50 caliber S&W ??

Gryffydd
July 3, 2010, 04:26 PM
If you believe in Skeeter Skeltons' logic...
why would you want a puny little 45LC? Why not just go with the "BIG BOYS" and get a real gun like a 50 caliber S&W ??
What does the .500 S&W Magnum have to do with anything exactly? Suddenly because I'm saying the .45 Colt is more versatile than the .357 Mag I should be going with a 500 for some reason? :confused:

Oh wait, I get it. What you meant to say was
"Hey look! A squirrel!" :neener:

snooperman
July 3, 2010, 04:31 PM
obvious. The 357 magnum is more popular because it is by far much more versatile. What makes a gun versatile??? Its many uses. Concealed carry , hunting, home defense, Law enforcement. For decades the 357 was carried by Law enforcement. Today , many people carry it for protection, and still many people shoot it for pleasure as well as hunting. That is not the case with the 45LC. It will never achieve the versatility nor the popularity of the 357 magnum for those reasons and more.

Gryffydd
July 3, 2010, 04:32 PM
If the 45LC was moire versatile more people would buy it
Again...is versatility the only motivator of handgun purchasing?
The 357 magnum out-sells the 45 LC because more people find it more to their needs than a 45 LC.
I agree with this statement. I just don't agree that it's due to versatility alone.

And the obvious that you can't seem to reach is that there is NOT a 1:1 relationship between the intrinsic characteristics of a cartridge and its popularity. There are hundreds of rare, obscure or wildcat rounds that are more versatile ore powerful or economical than the popular cartridges.

But it appears we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Concealed carry , hunting, home defense, Law enforcement.
The .45 Colt can have a slight disadvantage in concealed carry due to the extremely small guns the .357 can be chambered in, though some would argue that the .357 Mag in a 17oz gun is a terrible idea. The rest the .45 Colt is the equal or superior of the .357.

snooperman
July 3, 2010, 04:36 PM
as I enjoy this debate . I was referring to Quoheleth remark and quotation from "Skeeter Skelton" Saying that the bigger gun was better etc . Just above your initial remarks.

Dnaltrop
July 3, 2010, 04:45 PM
I honestly chalk it up to...



Generically, more metal goes into a .45 than a .357 (ammunition wise) So the rounds are purely more economical to produce., giving Producers more incentive to make the rounds that cost less for their bottom line.

More people are "average" height, making many of the smallest .45 revolvers still uncomfortable to the Median.

Barring handloaders and fanatics...45 lc was declining in popularity till relatively (edit, or had remained steady but low depending on how you look at it) recently, love it or hate it, the Taurus Judge was the best thing to happen to the round.

Many people would go .44/.357 and just think "cowboy gun" when they hear .45.

Buck Snort
July 3, 2010, 06:16 PM
rcmodel wrote: "Even the standard factory load 255/850 will shoot clear through most medium size big game animals." That's going to depend a lot on what bullet you're using. A JHP vs the SWC is a whole different ball game.

rcmodel
July 3, 2010, 06:57 PM
Even the standard factory load 255/850For about the last 125 years, the standard factory .45 Colt 255/850 load has been a lead RN-FP.

I don't know of any 255 grain JHP factory loads ever being the standard .45 Colt load.

rc

Oyeboten
July 3, 2010, 07:02 PM
I like both .357 and .45 Colt very much...and could not say which I like better.

They are both charming, and, different from one another...and both very versatile.

Harley Rider 55
July 3, 2010, 09:34 PM
2 perfect woods guns. 2 and 4 legged predators do not want to face either of them.
I've got an S&W 66 for my .357 duties
I've got a Winchester Trapper for my .45 Colt duties

Old Ranger
July 3, 2010, 11:31 PM
I have both. I'm an old six gunner who goes back a lot of years. I like them both; but I know for a fact, that the .45 Colt can be downloaded for recreational shooting, somewhere in between for personal defense and uploaded to loads (in a Freedom Arms revolver) that are suitable for the deep woods where something might eat you. Sometimes it kills far beyond it's foot pound rating with a hard cast flat point 300 + grainer.

I believe it isn't more popular because it's hard to get the ammunition, and there is less variety in loads; plus the fact that they are very expensive compared to .38 and .357 - - - although that stuff isn't all that cheap anymore either.

If you load your own, the .45 can't be beat. It's been around a long time.

CraigC
July 4, 2010, 01:27 AM
...the Taurus Judge was the best thing to happen to the round.
The .45Colt owes very little of its current popularity to the Judge. It owes much to the growing sport of Cowboy Action Shooting but mostly the writings of John Taffin, John Linebaugh and subsequently Ross Seyfried.

Dnaltrop
July 4, 2010, 02:59 AM
Never said the Cowboy action folks and history weren't applicable. , and it's good to see that sport expand. Don't forget the considerable focus on .357 as a cowboy round as well.

The Judge Just put the .45lc round in reach of "everyone else", and your average "I want a gun and know nothing but bigger numbers sound good" person won't care who wrote what books... Often just what they see, and what the clerk tells them is all they have.

The shelves are packed with .357s, they have been a standard "go to" round since the .38 became "not quite enough"

You have to remember, Those of us who have enough interest to post on the net about this stuff, already have demonstrated a more fervent interest than someone who just buys a gun to plink and stick in the nightstand. .

EDit: The young men in sagging jeans cleaning the .45 out of the shelf last week were assuredly not dressed in SASS attire, The few Cowboy shooters I've met in town tend to work in the shops already.

Bluehawk
July 4, 2010, 08:41 AM
After recently seeing the prices on .45 Colt ammo I truly am appreciative that I reload and and cast all my own bullets for that round!!!!!

papa_bear
July 5, 2010, 12:58 AM
I can't figure out why the better revolver cartridges are harder to find and way more expensive. For hunting and self defense the 45 colt is superior. Not to mention the versatility of the round. It can match 44 special upto 44 mag ballistics with an extra .025 in diameter (depending on the gun). not to mention blast and recoil are significantly reduced. Try shooting a j frame 357 with no ear plugs. i promise you will never do that again. I tried that one time. I almost dropped the gun on the ground. I thought my ears were bleeding.

I also think the 41mag is superior to the 357. just to much money and ammo is scarce.

The only revolver cartridge i own is 357 and I feel it is plenty for SD. Just not the best.

CraigC
July 5, 2010, 01:32 AM
My point was that the .45Colt's resurgence came about LOOOOONG before the Taurus Judge was introduced. The round's place in history was cemented well before those saggy britches boys bought their ammo. In the end the silly little Judge will just be a footnote and those of us who were already shooting the .45Colt will continue on, unimpeded. Perhaps the difference here is one of perspective.

CraigC
July 5, 2010, 01:38 AM
can match 44 special upto 44 mag ballistics with an extra .3 in diameter.
Depends on the platform. In the imminently packable mid-frame guns like the Colt SAA and its replicas, mid-frame Blackhawks, etc. the .44Spl has a clear advantage over the terribly inefficient .45Colt. Not to mention the clear advantage the .44Mag has in N-frames.

I think you mean a .02" advantage. I have many other thoughts on the .44 vs. .45 debate but that's a discussion for another thread.

fmcdave
July 5, 2010, 02:01 AM
I have a .45LC Taurus snub nose 5 shot revolver that I carry in the car and a S&W Mountain Gun in .45LC. The Taurus is not terribly accurate, but I consider it a huge deterrent ... just looking at those .45 LC hollowpoints is pretty discouraging. It is accurate enough for a car gun.

The S&W mountain gun is the most accurate pistol I own (and I have a lot). I carry it when out hiking and such. There are bear loads which approach the effectiveness of a .44mag.

papa_bear
July 5, 2010, 02:08 AM
I think you mean a .02" advantage. I have many other thoughts on the .44 vs. .45 debate but that's a discussion for another thread.
I stand corrected
Typo. I left out the zero. The real difference is in the middle. .025 I was off by .005

Gryffydd
July 5, 2010, 02:41 AM
The Taurus is not terribly accurate, but I consider it a huge deterrent ... just looking at those .45 LC hollowpoints is pretty discouraging.
Can you even see those things hiding away back in that mile long cylinder?

And now that someone mentioned the .41 Mag--if versatility were the sole reason to pick a caliber the .41 would sure as heck be more popular.

Oyeboten
July 5, 2010, 04:30 AM
The difference in diameter of 44 Magnum, and, 45 Colt, can be as much as .028

.44 Magnum Cartridge Case Neck diameter OD is usually about .457, which is what my .45 Colts have for a major Barrel ID Diameter.


Never had a .44 Magnum to compare, but I am sure I would like them if I did.

.45 Colt is very likable anyway...and being usually a low pressure round, is overall very friendly and has a lot of power for anything which one wishes to address with it.

snooperman
July 5, 2010, 08:29 AM
It is easy to figure out. They are not used as much as the 357 magnum and are not as "VERSATILE " either. Read the latest issue of Guns and ammo, It states "No other revolver is more versatile than the 357 magnum". Millions own them and shoot them and carry them, that is why the ammo is cheaper. That is why I have to reload my 45 long colt. It just is not as popular with the general public and because we like it so does not make it so.

Prosser
July 5, 2010, 07:17 PM
Both.

Mr. T
July 5, 2010, 07:21 PM
The Ruger GP-100 in .357 Mag. It's a beautiful revolver. It's simplicity and ruggedness accompanied by it's accuracy to me, make this a very effective tool. My Ruger has the 6 inch barrel.

CraigC
July 5, 2010, 08:59 PM
The real difference is in the middle. .025 I was off by .005
In modern terms it is really .022 as 'most' modern guns are designed to handle .429" and .451" jacketed projectiles or add .001" for cast bullets. Not that the difference amounts to a hill of beans.

papa_bear
July 6, 2010, 12:03 AM
In modern terms it is really .022 as 'most' modern guns are designed to handle .429" and .451" jacketed projectiles or add .001" for cast bullets. Not that the difference amounts to a hill of beans.

I believe the 45 colt is .454

Gryffydd
July 6, 2010, 12:32 AM
I believe the 45 colt is .454
Modern guns are usually .452.

CraigC
July 6, 2010, 03:27 AM
Yep, Colt's might still have oversized chamber mouths and shoot best with .454's but the bore is sized for .451" jacketed or .452" cast bullets. It's immaterial anyway, because the guns strong enough to be relevant to the discussion are Rugers and they are certainly not sized for .454's. The bore will swage them down to .451" anyway. All tangent and moot any way you look at it.

Grey Morel
July 6, 2010, 12:45 PM
I think the 45 Colt is a far more versatile cartridge when used in modern revolves.

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