Expressing yourself obscenely


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Oleg Volk
January 22, 2003, 08:18 AM
When signing up at THR, each person read and signed an agreement to mind the language used in this forum. You know as well as I do that, in addition to the discussions we have for our own benefit, we also present a showcase to the lurkers and fence-sitters (and we do have one lurker per two registered users). Word filter will catch a few terms, but it is not the solution nor should it be the solution.

Using faintly disguised obscenities with creative or phonetic spelling basically shows disrespect for your hosts. We are here voluntarily, including the moderators and the forum admins, because we are trying to maintain a forum worthy of the tradition started on TFL. Why show such lack of appreciation for the venue we provide?

If it is not deliberate disrespect for the others, then it could be the inability to express a thought without spicing it indiscriminantly with foul language. That's not offensive as much as it is pathetic. While strong words have their place and time, a public forum in which polite conduct has been requested is not the time or the place for them.

Please consider my request seriously.

If you enjoyed reading about "Expressing yourself obscenely" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MLH
January 22, 2003, 09:11 AM
Well said. Should be at the top of every forum for a while so everybody can read it and learn that the forum is better when we are polite.

41 Redhawk
January 22, 2003, 10:11 AM
Amen and thank you.

DeltaElite
January 22, 2003, 10:24 AM
Well said Oleg.

If you can't write it without cussing, then maybe you need a thesaurus or to write it later once you have calmed down and thought it through.

Edward429451
January 22, 2003, 10:56 AM
I think Oleg and the mods deserve our respect and cooperation on this issue. 'inadequete vocabulary' is not anything they can reprogram, thats up to us.

No slam on TFL, but (for some reason) THR seems to be moderated better than TFL was. They let some pretty voiceferous threads stay open in the face of political correctness and I for one respect this. Some things need to be discussed, however uncomfortable an issue for some. In return for this reasonableness, its a small request to keep the dialog clean.

Dictionary.com for those who dont know. Cross referencing the word takes you to the really good words...Keep digging.

cuchulainn
January 22, 2003, 11:03 AM
Well, if we're on the topic of appearing mature and civilized in front of fence-sitting lurkers, then I'd suggest that Oleg's advice ought to be extended beyond cussing. Specifically:

Use of offensive terms ... saw the term "wetback" used this week.

Ad hominem attacks against our political opponents ... "Rosie's fat" "Sara Brady is ugly"

Glee at the misfortune of our political opponents ... Jokes about Brady's cancer.

Statements that make broad negative generalizations about groups of people, especially races. From a thread this week: "[Affirmative Action] isn't applied to Asians because they arn't loosers and whiners like some other people I won't specify." Not specifying the other races who supposedly are "losers and whiners" doesn't change the fact that this is a blatant racist attack.

Viking6
January 22, 2003, 11:12 AM
cuchulainn makes a good point. I've probably been guilty of the same but there are some things that are as offensive as foul language. But we're starting to slip towards stifling discourse and I feel myself once again sliding into ambivalence. But for now, I'm satisfied with the rules as stated and again appreciate the forum supplied by Oleg, et al.

cuchulainn
January 22, 2003, 11:23 AM
But we're starting to slip towards stifling discourse

No we aren't. Discouse can occur with 100% efficiency while still avoiding what we have suggested be avoided. When we start suggesting that certain topics are off limits, then we will be slipping. :)

And for the record, I can recall at least one thread where I was guilty of an ad hominem attack against Michael Moore, so no one should take this as me being self righteous.

Edited to add: Besides, I'm not saying my suggestions ought to be rules. I'm just giving advice for appearing mature in front of the fence-sitting lurkers.

Gordon
January 22, 2003, 11:30 AM
Oh oh, obvious stuff is easy, but is hell or damn considered cussing? What about "screwed or friggin"? It's gonna be real hard to be "sensitive" to political opponents or destroyers of the American way of life, BUT being a nice guy I could try. And with plenty of grace from Oleg and Preacherman I think I can make it and not feel insipid.:cool:

SteyrAUG
January 22, 2003, 11:36 AM
Oleg, I am guilty of this in the past and will probably (without malice) unintentionally do it in the future.

But in light of your post, I will make a dedicated conscious effort to comply.

Might I make a suggestion. Full-Auto.com is a no holds barred free forum. If anyone feels to need to express themselves in a less than dignified manner (ie. Rant, complan or just pee and moan) then that forum is availabe.

Any member here may consider themselves duly invited to our forum. If anything I post here is out of line please PM me and I will square it away post haste.

Thanks for the forum here.

cuchulainn
January 22, 2003, 11:41 AM
.It's gonna be real hard to be "sensitive" to political opponents or destroyers of the American way of life

It isn't a matter of being "sensitive." It's a matter of appearing mature in front of fence-sitting lurkers.

I don't care if Brady gets upset when a THRer laughs at her cancer(*). I care about how it makes gun owners appear to those who are not sure whether to support us.

(*) as if she'd know about it.

bogie
January 22, 2003, 11:43 AM
Oleg, be honest with us - in your last experience with a Steyr AUG, didn't you at least :cuss: once?

(explanation: Oleg caught a piece of brass...)

Edward429451
January 22, 2003, 11:50 AM
No we aren't. Discouse can occur with 100% efficiency

...if we excercise an adequete vocabulary.



Not specifying the other races who supposedly are "losers and whiners" doesn't change the fact that this is a blatant racist attack.

Not necessarily. Maybe sometimes. Other times, maybe the orator is simply expressing frustration through personal experiance with a particular race of people.

So if I live in a neighbrohood that inhabited by predominently _________ people, I've been mugged by the same race people many times, my experiance would tell me that ___________ people are not to be trusted and lack of time and vocabulary leads me to express it in a way thats unflattering to said people, then that makes me racist? Get real. Its not my fault that ___________ people have chose to accost me and force me to distrust/dislike them in general. Stereotyping is based on experiance and does not make one racist, it may in fact save your life one day. Racism exists but not as often as they would have you beleive.

Betty
January 22, 2003, 12:27 PM
Word filter will catch a few terms, but it is not the solution nor should it be the solution.

Using faintly disguised obscenities with creative or phonetic spelling basically shows disrespect for your hosts.

Y'know Oleg, I feel like I've spent most of my time on THR editing out thinly disguised obscenities. They're like crabgrass. More keep on poppin' up every time I edit one out.

:scrutiny:

ruger357
January 22, 2003, 12:43 PM
Point taken.

TallPine
January 22, 2003, 01:13 PM
What about "SHTF" threads and "POS" ? We all know what those mean ;)

Personally, I tend toward cute euphemisms like "organic fertilizer" etc.


edit: Oh, and "jackass" is a male donkey, and if you have ever been around one much, you will know why the term is applied to some two legs. :D

PATH
January 22, 2003, 01:30 PM
I think that if we imagine ourselves in polite company it becomes rather obvious what one may or may not say.

As I recall the use of acronyms was okay at TFL but Oleg and Co. have the final say on this here. I think vulgarities throughout a post are what is problematic such as F**k(firetruck), S**t(spit), etc...
We all know what these mean but they are vulgar and gratuitous. I concur with the moderators on this!

We are representing the shooting community and I think we should be a G to GP rated board. Kudos to Oleg and the staff on their fine work in keeping this board civil!

rock jock
January 22, 2003, 03:14 PM
Expressing yourself obscenely
Based on the title, I thought you were going to offer pointers.

spacemanspiff
January 22, 2003, 03:16 PM
no kidding rockjock. the least he could do is teach us how to swear in russian. :D

JohnBT
January 22, 2003, 03:22 PM
Dern tooting. I want to curse at the Professor across the street in a language she understands - cuz English ain't getting it done. Commie-loving idiot.

I really want to ask her how the recent trip to Cuba went.

Just kidding. I don't really want to talk to her at all since she told my neighbor to take her flag down and keep it down.

John

dairycreek
January 22, 2003, 03:27 PM
I am much impressed by both the thread topic and the general tenor of the posts. I agree that the sentiments that the cuss words, disguised acronyms, etc. are intended to convey more often than not don't get the job done. Further they tend to identify all of us at THR as being without class. We can all try harder to communicate better. I'm sure going to try to do that. Good shooting:)

Mal H
January 22, 2003, 03:29 PM
Gordon brings up a good point: Oh oh, obvious stuff is easy, but is hell or damn considered cussing? What about "screwed or friggin"?

The first two of his examples are mild (by today's standards) curse words, not obscenities. Personally, I don't even blink at those and in fact use them when posting, rarely, but I do use them nonetheless. Don't worry about them.

"Screwed", even though it has a few obscene definitions, is a common word used to mean "messed up" or any of a hundred other synonyms.

The last one is indeed a disguised obscenity. There are plenty of words that can replace it that aren't.

Oleg Volk
January 22, 2003, 03:37 PM
I am not telling you that an inoffensive paragraph as used on THR can have no more than two of the following, a flash hider, a magazine with more than 10 rounds, a bayonet lug, a wind-speed indicator or a coffee maker. I am asking that, overall, we keep the discussions BOTH civil and non-vulgur. Is that a lot to ask?

In other words, use your judgement and err on the side of good manners.

TallPine
January 22, 2003, 03:51 PM
Unless it was a "pre-ban" post, right ? :D

Wildalaska
January 22, 2003, 03:56 PM
the least he could do is teach us how to swear in russian.

I can do that for you...and in Japanese too..shall I start a thread?

Statements that make broad negative generalizations about groups of people, especially races.

I join in my dislike of those threads, except looney right wingers and the French:neener:

Mal H
January 22, 2003, 04:21 PM
I can do that for you...and in Japanese too..shall I start a thread?

No. I know you were joking and this isn't necessarily meant for you, Wildalaska, just a general warning of sorts.

Someone on TFL tried to get a full-color diatribe in a foreign language against another member past the moderators. It didn't work and he was booted forthwith. We have many multi-lingual mods, and what we don't have here on Staff, we can get translated through friends or on-line.

I hasten to add, this is not an invitation to try to find a language we don't know and post a bunch of invectives in it. Don't do it, it isn't worth it. Obscenities in any language are verbotten, c'est dèfendu, y prohibido. Ci capiamo?

Mike Irwin
January 22, 2003, 04:37 PM
What? 25 posts to this thread and not a single diatriabe about how staff is crushing First Amendment Freedoms?

Sigh.

People are so losing their edge. I guess I'll have to step up...


(delivered in bored monotone...)

hey. you. you're messing with my *%)(&$)(*&$#^)(*&$%)(*&$% first amendment rights. i won't be censored you &%()*&$)(*&#)(*&...

oh the humanity...


:)

redneck2
January 22, 2003, 04:56 PM
if it's something you wouldn't say in front of your mother or daughter, your minister (rabbi, whatever) or wife you shouldn't put it here

gryphon
January 22, 2003, 05:39 PM
Mike, first amendment rights don't count here. This is a private forum.

Or at least that's what I've been told.:neener:

UnknownSailor
January 22, 2003, 05:48 PM
If this real life sailor, who talks like a real life sailor, can tone it down on the board, then anyone can.

Just like I tone it down when I'm at home on leave. :)

It does take some effort, I will admit.

DFBonnett
January 22, 2003, 05:51 PM
Expressing yourself obscenely

You might wish to get over yourself. It is a firearm forum, not the afternoon tea and cucumber sandwich club. I'll express myself as it suits me.

Wildalaska
January 22, 2003, 07:13 PM
I hasten to add, this is not an invitation to try to find a language we don't know and post a bunch of invectives in it.

Albanian? Georgian?Basque!!!! Yes thats it...Basque!

How about Inuit???

Calamity Jane
January 22, 2003, 07:19 PM
Kudos to Oleg and staff for insisting on high standards of discourse. Because you do, this is a forum par excellence.

This forum is akin to humongous aggregate of folks, from all walks of life, who are gathered in Oleg's living room. And since this is the internet and I cannot see faces, I conduct myself as though there are people here who are two years old, one hundred years old, and every age in between.

Though I am known to use "colorful language" from time to time in the privacy of my own home, I strive to express myself here in such a way that will alienate neither our more-than-generous hosts, nor the father of a listening three year old, nor somebody's eighty year old granny.

DAL
January 22, 2003, 07:22 PM
...first amendment rights don't count here. This is a private forum.

Sorry to nitpick, but is a privately-OWNED forum. Anyone, be they friend or foe, can look at the posts here. But you are absolutely correct that 1st amendment rights don't apply here; those only apply to the government.
DAL

Southla1
January 22, 2003, 07:22 PM
"the least he could do is teach us how to swear in russian."

:D After I started working in Syria 28 days on and then 28 off, I was visiting my ill father as I did every morning. One morning the parish priest stopped by for his coffee and he asked me if I had learned any Arabic yet.......................all 3 of us got a good laugh when I said "So far only the cuss words". Father Ed, after he stopped laughing said "I guess the oilfield is the same all over the world."

AMEN!

Gewehr98
January 22, 2003, 07:32 PM
if it's something you wouldn't say in front of your mother or daughter, your minister (rabbi, whatever) or wife you shouldn't put it here

Having started out my adult life in a seminary to be a man of the cloth, I know full well some pastors can make a sailor blush. (Shocking, I know, but you get over it, just like the Santa Claus/Easter Bunny thing)

My mom taught my little nephew his first word. Can't, and shouldn't, be repeated here. ;)

And my 2nd, and current, wife - well, she is a Marine Brat, and her first husband was a Marine. She can shoot like a house on fire, but the vocabulary is impressive, too. :eek:

But I have all sorts of respect for the owners of an online forum. Same goes for whoever browses it. I'd hate to have some parent explain an off-color term to their little one who's reading along online.

Jason Demond
January 22, 2003, 07:34 PM
I rather like a clean board. I support our Esteamed Staff in full! Keep up the good work, guys, and gals!!

Ed Brunner
January 22, 2003, 07:51 PM
but lets not ban IRREVERENT and POLITICALLY INCORRECT, OK?

Oleg Volk
January 22, 2003, 08:07 PM
Seconded! Now, where did I put that sacred cow sight-in target...

Hkmp5sd
January 22, 2003, 08:13 PM
(Shocking, I know, but you get over it, just like the Santa Claus/Easter Bunny thing)

You mean they curse like sailors too? :what: Geeze, can't trust anyone.

cratz2
January 22, 2003, 08:21 PM
I admit that I have been warned by a mod to choose my words more wisely, granted after I already edited my post ;) . Never thought it would happen to me but sometimes people type before they think.

I think that many people should stay out of the legal/political forum. Many folks just get to hot under the collar. To the ones that needlessly cuss and try to get around the filter - pick up a thesaurus. There's a lot of words out there... many have more than four letters. :D

c doing-his-best-to-be-a-better-forum-contributor ratz2

sctman800
January 22, 2003, 09:53 PM
This is a private board and even tho I am fairly new here I certaintly appreciate being able to use it. With a little thought I believe I can avoid obcenities without becomming pollitically correct. Of course anything more than a little thought becomes a strain.

Politically Incorrect
January 22, 2003, 10:25 PM
but lets not ban IRREVERENT and POLITICALLY INCORRECT, OK?

I second what Ed said!

:D

garrettwc
January 22, 2003, 10:28 PM
Not necessarily. Maybe sometimes. Other times, maybe the orator is simply expressing frustration through personal experiance with a particular race of people.

So if I live in a neighbrohood that inhabited by predominently _________ people, I've been mugged by the same race people many times, my experiance would tell me that ___________ people are not to be trusted and lack of time and vocabulary leads me to express it in a way thats unflattering to said people, then that makes me racist? Get real. Its not my fault that ___________ people have chose to accost me and force me to distrust/dislike them in general. Stereotyping is based on experiance and does not make one racist, it may in fact save your life one day. Racism exists but not as often as they would have you beleive.

Your definition of stereotyping is basically correct. I have met people of different backgrounds who fit the usual media stereotype. However, in this case I think it is mis-applied.

Your state that the area in question is predominantly a particular group. I take that to mean more than 70%, or 7 out of 10 occurences. In that case it is statistics that determine the outcome. If you went to another area and the percentages were reversed, the stats would skew towards the other group.

It's sort of like going to a lake with 2 bass and 1,000 bluegills, and complaining that all you are catching is bluegills.

What I am attempting to point out to you is that, sheer numbers are the determining factor, not ethnic background. A person may not be intentionally biased, but may give that appearance based on how they interpret the data.

Just my .02

gryphon
January 22, 2003, 10:33 PM
DAL,

I stand corrected. My intent was to say privately-owned. I did not, thank you for clarifying.

Mike Irwin
January 22, 2003, 10:35 PM
"You might wish to get over yourself. It is a firearm forum, not the afternoon tea and cucumber sandwich club. I'll express myself as it suits me."

You may wish to get over yourself, DF. Oleg doesn't have to. He owns the board.

We're all here at the INVITATION of Oleg.

He can set the rules of conduct, you agree to abide by them by signing up.

Don't like it?

You don't have to.

Oleg's asking us to politely agree to some simple self-policing regarding language.

If you're incapable of that, there are other boards where you can hang out.

Politically Incorrect
January 22, 2003, 10:57 PM
the afternoon tea and cucumber sandwich club.

Is someone making fun of my afternoon tea and cucumber sandwich club? :scrutiny:


A word on stereotypes: People do have prejudices no matter their background. It's natural. I can honestly say that I don't base my prejudice on race in as much of how someone dresses.

If you wear pants that are so baggy that Tamara's gun collection can be hidden in them (even though more than half of your underwear hangs out at the top), then yes, I do take notice. Not that I've never worn baggy pants before and was made fun of.

However, I continue to look for the good in people unlike some black leaders like Michael Moore who writes books about "stupid white men."

There is nothing wrong with having discernment for people. In fact, I encourage it. Some people just won't adhere to principles like the golden rule. But remember that the greatest minority is the individual and each person is unique except the French, of course. ;)

Carry on.

Selfdfenz
January 22, 2003, 10:58 PM
I have used the term JBT many times in this forum and firmly believe it applied in every instance.
There are such individuals and I would not be ashamed to use that term in any company I can think of.
However, I shall do my best not to refer to JBTs as JBTs in the future.

I may need a 12 step to pull it off.

Selfdfenz

Actually Oleg...can't we just keep just this one little tidbit. We may really, really need it in the future.
:D

scottgun
January 22, 2003, 11:35 PM
Is someone making fun of my afternoon tea and cucumber sandwich club?

Ha!ha! someone always gets offended by something.

I would say that Michael Moore related posts always make me bite my tounge so to speak. But the name of this site really says it all (thanks Oleg) and IMO this is by far one of the best forums and a formidable successor to TFL. No need to trash a good thing. :cool:

Guyon
January 23, 2003, 12:09 AM
Isn't this: :cuss: in the same spirit?

It's a smilie called "cuss." Seems to me there's little difference between it and what Oleg calls "faintly disguised obscenities."

This thread is the first time I've used it. This thread will be the last time. In another thread, I expressed my dissatisfactions with the smilie and had some support (Thanks Kaylee).

Seriously, why is this smilie part of our board?

Marshall
January 23, 2003, 12:11 AM
Oleg,

Anyone that asks in the respectful way you did should get their wish! Not saying you will but, you should! ROFL Just Kidding!

Yes, the High Road is the best path!

I will say this, I believe this site as well as TFL, is and was a very tasteful site. I would have a hard time sitting on fence thinking badly of the members or moderators as it is! I believe the way in which people respond in these threads in regard to general attitude has much more of a relfection on this site than a few colorful words here and there. But, I realize it is impossible regulate that, not that it necessarily should be. It easier by far to regulate words.

Thanks for making this site possible!

Respectfully.
Marshall

Spark
January 23, 2003, 01:02 AM
Personally, I've found that people tend to be self moderating. You set a good enough example, and you rarely if ever have to take action.

You've got good moderators. Obscenities are obscenities, but you can't shield people from everything.

Firearms talk is grown up talk. The forums have a very neat feature called "ignore" where anyone you don't like can be "turned off" and guess what? You don't see what they have to say.

Attacks are one thing. Mild cursing is another. Personally, I don't like it if it doesn't need to be there, but there are more important things to worry about, right guys?

Don't make an issue out of something so machts nichts. Just my two cents.

A private email to an offender is more effective than a public chewing out. It's only when things start getting out of kilter that you'll really need to do that.

Kevin

ed dixon
January 23, 2003, 01:34 AM
I sometimes watch that "Dinner for Five" show on IFC. Honestly surprised by how many younger movie folk seem to feel the need to use the [sixth letter of the alphabet deleted by moderator]- word so much. Like every single sentence. Whom are they trying to impress? Thought only teenagers trying out their cussing wings for the first time were so compulsive about it. Sounds ludicrous, forced and fake tough. Incessantly grimacing rappers with the "know what 'm sayin'?" every two words (yeah, nothing) have the same effect on me. Children who still have to pretend to be grownups instead of just being them.

I use the same language on occasion, but try to save it for something good so I can savor it on the palate and feel it in the soul. A good foul-mouthed spew is a terrible thing to waste.

I enjoy the Hitler-meets-the-Kool Aid Man smilie way more anyway. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Matthew Courtney
January 23, 2003, 01:45 AM
My daughter is 3. A few weeks back my wife and I explained to her that soon she was going to have a little sister. We told her that things would have to be shared and that she might be able to be a big help to mommy and daddy if she would share things and do some things for herself.

After careful consideration, my daughter responded that not only was she willing to share and do more things for herself, she would be ready, willing, and able to help bring her little sister up to speed. Rachel said that she would help feed and bathe the baby. Teach her how to potty, to crawl, and to walk. And Rachel professed, with a devil may care look in her eyes, that she would also teach her little sister to not say "****", because young ladies didn't say such words.

Bruce H
January 23, 2003, 07:36 AM
If you can't make your point with accepted proper language, reguardless of the language, then you have no point.

Spoonman
January 23, 2003, 08:05 AM
Thanks, Oleg, your point is well-taken. We need to be mindful of our image (even though we all probably consider ourselves to be rugged individualists). Campfire talk is often funny but we don't know who's around our campfire at THR. Let's be respectful of each other and thankful for the moderators (who do this because they love it). I'm not a big proponent of political correctness but this is an issue of respect for each other. I'll try to be good and, if I slip up, call me on it. I'm a big boy, I can handle it. :D


**Thanks to all you moderators. I love this place.


Clif

XLMiguel
January 23, 2003, 09:13 AM
By and large, keeping a civil and 'proper' tone is a kind of self-discipline that can serve us all well in the long run. Obscenity, vulgarity, profanity born out of laziness, ignorance, inarticulateness, and/or illiteracy is indeed, crass and inappropriate, and we should all strive to do better.

That said, some things are obscene, vulgar and profane and should be labeled as such. How to do so is the issue. There are times when I am so angry and frustrated by some of the nonsense foisted upon me/us by the blissninnies (can I still say that?) that I do wax profane in teh course of expressing my opinion . But from now on, I shall endeavor to do so in proper English, let the games begin.

DeltaElite
January 23, 2003, 09:50 AM
Ban the "cuss smiley". :D

Politically Incorrect
January 23, 2003, 05:58 PM
If you ban the cuss smiley, then some people won't have anything to say!

Okay, I get your point. :neener:

SteyrAUG
January 23, 2003, 08:25 PM
Test:

Dang blammit farm tooting somo freegin gosh blanget frim frammin jackhole luggin homogenous chromeophiles! :cuss: :neener:

Betty
January 23, 2003, 08:46 PM
That's it SteyrAUG - no more chocolate ice cream for you.

:scrutiny:

:neener:

SteyrAUG
January 23, 2003, 10:53 PM
That's it SteyrAUG - no more chocolate ice cream for you.

FUDGE! :D

swingset
January 24, 2003, 03:04 AM
The only thing that offends me is the pious tightwire act of trying not to offend anyone.

I enjoy this forum at times, and generally a good group of people, but we're living in 2003, not victorian England.

If people weren't such thin-skinned church ladies about language, the venom of "blue" language would lose it's effect, and we could all just talk without muzzles.

Wouldn't that be the ****?

Drjones
January 24, 2003, 04:43 AM
There are some good points made here, but frankly, I'm disappointed this thread has gone on for so long!

Honestly, Oleg isn't saying "Don't say this or that" or limiting you in any way!

He (and many members like myself) are just asking you to debate like ADULTS.

No more, no less.

There are plenty ways to get your point across without rough language.

If you REALLY have such a hard time doing so without foul words, perhaps you aren't as intelligent or mature as you think you are.


I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous, really.....:rolleyes:

SteyrAUG
January 24, 2003, 01:15 PM
swingset and others, once again time and place.

I "used" to post on Assweb for about 2 weeks. But not being a dedicated Christian I didn't last there too long. It wasn't for me.

I'm extremely opinionated (ie. always right) and often express my self with a purposeful lack of decorum. However, this is a different kind of board and they have asked that is not be done here. It is THEIR forum.

If you wanna kick off your shoes and speak your mind, www.full-auto.com and you are all invited. Doesn't mean you are gonna leave and never come back. It means you have a place to post things that won't fly here.

I post on several boards, each with their own set of rules. As a result I don't post the same way on each one.

Oleg and the folks here are trying to present the best possible image of gun owners. They understand something about politics and how those who work against us use propaganda. They are going out of their way to counter the image of gun owners as illiterate, rednecks who are a threat to society.

Full-Auto has a different but just as important focus. Freedom and the representation of ALL freedoms in a firearm related forum. Kinda like a ACLU forum with guns. There is, among other things, colorful language. But when people go there and see "other" freedoms of expression associated with firearms a few finally "get it." Most liberals don't value second amendment freedoms until they see them equated with first amendment freedoms and that is the point.. These are all our rights, whether we currently need or use them at the moment.

So the two forums, as well as most others, are just striving towards similar goals by different approaches.

Topgun
January 24, 2003, 03:53 PM
What about the bilingual? English and Tourette's??

Mike Irwin
January 24, 2003, 04:18 PM
I don't think there's ever been a case of Tourette's Syndrom being expressed in writing...

blades67
January 24, 2003, 04:31 PM
That may be true Mike, but we are a bunch known for going that extra mile!:evil:

redneck2
January 24, 2003, 04:42 PM
Yo...SteyrAUG

you say "redneck" like it's some kinda bad thing!!!

You boys need to learn the difference between redneck and white trash

I'd suspect the vast majority of people here fit into the "redneck" category.

Lesse...you hunt, fish, go to gun shows, love to shoot, probably drive a 4x4, wear camo sometimes, squeeze a nickle so hard you make the buffalo pooh....

and you're not a redneck???

Gordon
January 24, 2003, 07:08 PM
Whats ASSWEB? I want to try. Hey "white trash" is a racial slur and I take offense!:D

SteyrAUG
January 24, 2003, 07:31 PM
Redneck2, I'm sure you know what I meant. Don't get PC on me or I'll revoke your "Good ol' Boy" status.

Gordon, www.assaultweb.com

Marshall
January 24, 2003, 07:50 PM
Hey! He said illiterate rednecks. He made no mention about us intelligent, professional Rednecks! :D

Mike Irwin
January 24, 2003, 07:59 PM
Blades,

Touche! :D

DAL
January 24, 2003, 08:00 PM
Especially the comment about "thin-skinned church ladies." That was QUITE appropriate and timely. As we all know, you just couldn't believe in the one true Lord without eschewing all cuss words first ;).

Now, having said that, and not trying to apply my lips to any part of anyone's anatomy, I understand that this is Oleg's board, and he can (and should) set the rules. If the rules become too restrictive, there are other places to go; none of us are held hostage here.

One thing EVERYONE should remember is to lighten up. Placing posts here is not, to quote Sir Laurence Olvier, "a pivitol point in history." In the short run, not to mention the long run, just about nothing you post here is going to amount to a hill of beans. Some people seem to come to these type of boards just daring someone to step on their toes. FUGIDABOUTIT! Get yourself a good thesaurus and go to town, albeit urabanely.
DAL

Safety First
January 24, 2003, 09:16 PM
This is The High Road- no place for disrespect and foul language,no matter how it is said...Let's show all those who read,that those of us who are pro-gun, pro- 2nd amendment that we will always respect others and their opinions and do it politely

spacemanspiff
February 10, 2003, 02:25 PM
i think this thread needs to be 'stickyfied'.

seen more asterisks used the last few days than an all ages audience should be exposed to.

Oleg Volk
February 10, 2003, 02:31 PM
Okey. Will float it for a while...maybe it will come handy for the new members.

VaughnT
February 10, 2003, 04:29 PM
I'm guilty and apologize to all. Vulgarity in writing, where you have all the time in the world to edit yourself, only goes to show a streak of laziness too wide to jump or a lack of intellect too deep to plumb.

Again, I'm guilty and offer my apologies. I will do my level best to act in a manner that sits flush with the rules I agreed to when I joined this forum.

Country Boy
February 10, 2003, 05:06 PM
He (and many members like myself) are just asking you to debate like ADULTS.
'bout sums it up. Lets take the high road in our discussions.

Our late curriculum coordinator had a favorite saying: Profanity is the result of a feeble mind trying to express itself in a forceful way.

tex_n_cal
February 11, 2003, 01:54 AM
Good points.

As I once said at TFL...I can (and do) swear like a drunk sailor, when no one sensitive is around.

When I write though, I am leaving a creation behind...hopefully something of value. Something that someone might theoretically enjoy reading a thousand years from now.

I try to write well, and use the language well. I am putting my name to it, and I am proud of it.

Patrick

Sprig
February 11, 2003, 03:41 AM
This is what DRJONES said,

Honestly, Oleg isn't saying "Don't say this or that" or limiting you in any way!Honestly, Oleg isn't saying "Don't say this or that" or limiting you in any way!
He (and many members like myself) are just asking you to debate like ADULTS.
No more, no less.
There are plenty ways to get your point across without rough language.

Sometimes, as ADULTS, an issue is SO intense that to seperate it from normal conversation we elevate it by increasing our volume or increasing the impact of the words we use.

Sometimes this includes using language that isn't always PC.

While I will try not to be banned here, I still feel that I have the responsibility to use language that suits the discussion at hand.

It would be a true shame to censor everything here. Some very important people have said "obsene" things becasuse they had the passion to impact change.

Yes, debate like adults, and keep foul language out of personal attacks, but when something is truely evil and hidious, perhaps the obsene words are the only way to accurately describe the obsene happenings in this world.

Or, maybe we could all just have our hearts cut out, and just talk like Barney the purple dragon so we would never offend anyone.

"I" want to hear the unedited "passion" of voice on this forum when it relates to the issues at hand. Personal attacks in a vulgar manner I can do without. THAT is the disctintion I would like to be seen held to.

Sprig

Leatherneck
February 11, 2003, 12:33 PM
A couple of the posters I enjoyed (and respected) most on both TFL and THR rarely if ever use profanity or vulgarity. Yet their messages come across loud and clear. And on the rare occasion I did read something profane or vulgar from one of them, the impact was huge! But in general, the more coarse language one uses, the smaller the impact.

TC
TFL Survivor

Atticus
February 11, 2003, 02:57 PM
There is no such thing as "a little out of control". I've seen the behaviour of members at excellent boards such as AR15.com and the Fal Files sink to sickeningly low standards at times, but I always found TFL to be well moderated. I'm glad to see the same rules here. Too many gun board members assume that their fellow readers/users are a bunch of tough guys, when in fact there are people of all ages and walks of life aboard. Why alienate anyone? We need everyone.

Drjones
February 11, 2003, 11:10 PM
Sprig:

Ditto leatherneck.

Those whose opinions I respect most are those who NEVER even HINT at profanity.

Not that I never use profanity in my personal life (especially around friends :D ) but I change my vocabulary when in public.

Furthermore, what Oleg is requesting is NOT "censorship."

It is exactly the same as if he invited you into his home and asked you to please not swear/drink/smoke.

THR is HIS HOME, so its HIS RULES.

TracerSpies
February 11, 2003, 11:31 PM
I'm new here and I appreciate the forum. I do respect the owner's right to request "appropriate" language. However, if you're really concerned about the lurking observers looking for ammo to use against us honest gun folks, address the spelling and grammar nightmares! Talk about inviting Brady into your trailer park!

hansolo
February 12, 2003, 02:35 PM
I do not brag about having a college education. I do not think less of someone who does not. I agree to abide by the request to not use "rough" language, but I'll not stand idly by and be denigrated because I choose to live in a Mobile Home Park; they're not all like the Bad Boys' homes on "Cops." :rolleyes:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to bail my wife out of the slammer for backing her '76 Trans Am over the neighbor's Pit Bull.

:cuss:

Redlg155
February 12, 2003, 06:40 PM
I appreciate the efforts of the mods and the members to keep this place a great place to be. I can let my family browse here with me and not worry about serious profanities.

I can't let them do that in other forums.

Heck..I work at a prison when I'm not here. I would hate to come here and get the same stuff. :D

Good Shooting
Red

Sprig
February 12, 2003, 11:02 PM
Hello Drjones,

Let me try to clarify?

Furthermore, what Oleg is requesting is NOT "censorship."
It is exactly the same as if he invited you into his home and asked you to please not swear/drink/smoke.

But, while being there helping instal that new gun safe, it manages to squash your little toe on your left foot and you yell "!@#%!!!" and he promptly throws you out for your bad language.

Or, while being there, a bad guy tries to steal his TV set and you waste him with your CCW and afterwards you state, "You came to the wrong house you sorry "!@@#%!" and Oleg throws you out because of your bad language.

MOST of the "bad words" can be heard on any current R- rated film. I would rather see and hear the REAL passion behind the voice in the text instead of not, because it was censored just becasue we are "better then that".

In fact, a "normal" amount of moderation in this regard may make us seem more reasonable and more like a peer instead of presenting a "superior intellect" with a higher "moral standard" that may drive the average American away from this board.

All I am trying to point out is that sometimes it is good thing to act in a NORMAL manner that is full of passion that may not always P.C.

...???

Sprig

Sprig
February 12, 2003, 11:56 PM
Hello All,

Here it is, in its glory, or perhaps shame, EXACTLY why I think this board should embrace the 1st admentment, as well as the 2nd.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8752

The 2nd incident was today as a customer I was doing some work for who is probably worth several million dollars was expressing his displeasure with current actions in many of the same areas the socialists in class where. But his comments and suggestions are not fit for this board.

WHY!!!???

ALWAYS the comments of our peers MUST be fit for this board.

"I" WANT to know what was said. THR has the RESPONSIBILITY to reprint what our peers think, even if the language is outside the normal code of conduct that we ourselves as members agree to. It is not OUR language, and yet we must stand strong with integrity such that we can acurately report the intense and difficult issues that we post; and not feel shamed in including the languge used by others. To allow ourselves to remain quiet so we can retain the privilege to post here is NOT showing personal integrity.

There IS a difference between NOT allowing rude personal attacks, and conveying a strong message in the manner of our peers.

One is holding to polite standards, the other is censorship.

Sprig

Oleg Volk
February 13, 2003, 10:11 AM
THR has the RESPONSIBILITY to reprint what our peers think, even if the language is outside the normal code of conduct that we ourselves as members agree to.
If the comments are germain to the discussion and the exact phrasing is important, then go ahead and quote exactly. Know that the benefit from the exact quotation may be overshadowed by the damage from the reaction of the readers.

I forget who said it (Heinlein, meybe?), that an occasional oaths lightens the heart but it won't improve the cards or make the wind favorable. I don't mind calling the likes of Bill Clinton or Joeffrey Dahmer exactly the words which first come to mind, but let me argue for some creativity on the condemnations:

- same word or phrase used over and over lose impact for the regulars of this forum, yet still scandalize the lurkers

- note how C.R.Sam or Art Eatman can express loathing of the nastiest degree with a few well-picked words, none of which are related to the *#*% or **#$

In conclusion, I would expect it reasonable for a person to have some choice comments in the field, under stress...but in a circle of friends, at a discussion, dropping something on your foot or overturning a glass of wine ought not merit much more than a correction of the problem without undue attention to it. Appropriate language to the situation, not because what we define as "obscene" is better or worse than any other terms, but because respecful behavior is designed to avoid offending any friendlies inasmuch as possible.

Other forums have drawn the line in different places, so we can always go to another site (The Firing Range (http://www.thefiringrange.com), for example, or glocktalk.com , or ar15.com and get the oaths off your chest there. Great thing about the variety of jurisdictions in America and on the web is that folks who dislike regulations or culture of a particular area can go elsewhere. I am not eager to drive anyone away, but I recognize that some aspects of THR aren't meeting with everyone's approval...yet we can only change THR so far before it loses the sight of the original mission. That mission is the introduction of new folks to our way of thinking, and -- incidentally -- tech and moral support for those who are already "us".

Mr. James
February 13, 2003, 05:59 PM
Dear Readers,

In keeping with Oleg's last post, may I recommend to you a splendidly useful little book, Shakespeare's Insults: Educating Your Wit by Wayne F. Hill and Cynthia J. Ottchen (Mainsail Press, 1991)? Just a small sample of its delights:

"Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!"

"[You] sanguine coward, [you] bed-presser, [you] horse-back-breaker, [you] huge hill of fish!"

"How now, my sweet creature of bombast?"

"Why dost thou converse with that trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that roasted Manningtree ox with the pudding in his belly, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?"

"[You are] a wretch whose natural gifts are poor."

"Henceforth be never number'd among men!"

:)

Calamity Jane
February 13, 2003, 06:27 PM
Mr. James, I have long been a fan of Shakespearean insults. :D In addition to the book you mentioned, here's a web site that's a random Shakespearean Insult Generator:

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/

TracerSpies
February 13, 2003, 06:50 PM
Time for me to go back to the 1911forum! Bye.

joeoim
February 13, 2003, 08:20 PM
Oleg: I will respect your request and see no problem expressing myself without profanity.
This forum. like TFL has been a wealth of information for me.
I rarely see the rude posts to a newbys questions that are too common on a couple others I frequent.
I realize we have several ladies and young gun enthusiests (SP) here and I wouldn't want to insult someone who didn't deserve it.
Joe

TheeBadOne
February 13, 2003, 11:04 PM
Profanity is the crutch of the ignorant

LoneStranger
February 15, 2003, 01:55 AM
I had a grandfather who was a muleskinner in the Field Artillery before the Great War. As such he had an extensive vocabulary. I was always told though that when talking about others, nonmule types recognized by lack of four legs and long tails, you should always "Discuss them" and not "Cuss them." The better your vocabulary and your use of it the better your discussion.

The problem comes in when you move off this board. Your dealing with others who lack the basic intelligence and dignity of mules and your words will quickly go over their heads. Then when you come back to this board you find yourself hobbled by a lack of practice.

nemesis
February 15, 2003, 04:53 PM
Use of offensive terms ... saw the term "wetback" used this week.

Why.....is this offensive? Here, on the banks of the Rio Grande; local Spanish-speaking people commonly refer to illegal crossers as "mojados", which translates as "wet ones". I have been told by many of the people that I know that they arrived here as mojados and they aren't ashamed of how they got here or the word they used to describe themselves.

Aren't we taking liberal shame too far when a term used by people to refer to themselves is "offensive" when used by us?

How do you feel about "Rio Grande International Swimming Team"?

Oleg Volk
February 15, 2003, 06:15 PM
Lots of potential for trouble when switching languages. Simple example: in Russian, "black" is rude and "negro" is polite...in English, it is just about the opposite. The key isn't never giving offense, which is nearly impossible, but never giving offense intentionally. If offense is given inadvertantly, reasonable people would get over it.

Sprig
February 19, 2003, 01:23 AM
Hello Oleg,

Sorry for the delay in reply; upgraded the computer.

I have great respect for you and what you have done here. I also don't dissagree with your concerns that you stated. However, "I" want to hear the unedited "passion" of voice on this forum when it relates to the issues at hand. Personal attacks in a vulgar manner I can do without. THAT is the disctintion I would like to be seen held to.

I have seen SEVERAL threads already that contain the text similar to what I quoted earlier,
But his comments and suggestions are not fit for this board.

It appears I will have to ask the next question outright.

Which is better ?
1) NOT telling the story because the politcal government forbids it.
2)NOT telling the story because it uses language that isn't quite to the standards of "the high road".

It seems to me, that important information is censored; in one case because it its "forbidden", and in the other because "it isn't polite enough".

I would like to see caution exercised in the restricting of freedom of speach, because there ARE stories with QUALITY information ALREADY not being told here.

I would like to see this forum embrace the First, as well as the Second, WITHOUT turning this into a forum that I won't let my kids read.

There is a thin line between the differences. I hope I have been clear enough to present them clearly enough that you understand my intentions.

I am looking forward to seeing how THR grows through its adolescence and matures into a forum that outlasts us all.

Sprig

spacemanspiff
February 19, 2003, 12:41 PM
this issue isnt about the First Amendment, its about setting a high standard for others to admire and follow.

my roommate is a guy who uses the "eff" word at least once per sentence, without even thinking about it. i dont want to hear swear words used as adjectives. i swear when the situation calls for it. and simple conversations dont call for it, IMNSHO.
i stub my toe, yeah i'm going to utter a few swears.
but i try not to if its just to be inflammatory.

Betty
April 28, 2003, 10:03 AM
I think this thread needs to be floated again.

bogie
April 28, 2003, 01:13 PM
Runt, the problem is that every time I seen a big hairy tarantula, I go bleepin' nuts! Heck, I scream like a girl, and try to climb the tallest thing in the neighborhood.

Which means that you're safe, but Oleg's likely to get bootprints on his ears...

Gus Dddysgrl
April 28, 2003, 01:50 PM
haha y'all are funny.

I don't know if it's education, homelife, environment, or something else that makes people "talk dirty." I live in the city and people use not so nice language all the time. Course half the time I have no idea what the word means I just know I'm suppossed to be offended.

Also I am an English Education major and like finding creative ways to say something. Especially if it is meant to offend and takes the other person too long to figure it out cause I'll be far far away by that time. And when I do begin teaching I plan on not letting my kids use any obscene language in my class room and will teach them ways to always be polite and not cuss.

Also there are many ways to express how you feel about something or express strong language without using anything romotely obscene. I mean it used to be a swear word in my dad's house to say fart. There is an extent to which it gets ridiculous, but there are nice ways to talk about anything.

I don't use most cuss words that I know. I think it's not good for my mind to be settling on something so base and discusting. Why should I? I do appriciate the work put in by everyone to not use some inappropriate words.

I think that using the smilies to show emotion or in place of cussing is good. We all understand the meaning of it, but no one is offended.

Squirt

keyhole
April 28, 2003, 03:16 PM
Oleg-
Well if nothing, you got everyone to read this, and most replied.

Thanks for doing a great job, and giving us a plce to kick back!

280PLUS
April 28, 2003, 03:50 PM
but i thought thats what this " :cuss: " was for.

you know like: my :cuss: gun jammed on me again...

or would that be considered too much implication

being an old sailor who learned the proper way to :cuss: , drink and :barf: like a sailor, i'm not overly offended by mild cussing

i thought asterisks covered things too but i guess not...

so if at some point i stepped too far over the line for some of you please accept my humble apologies,

:D

zahc
April 28, 2003, 04:13 PM
Profanity is an interesting thing.

I totally respect the reasons for the moderation of this board and am not arguing against them.

But profanity in the English language is one of those weird things we are trapped into paying attention to by social pressures.

I remember watching television when I was younger. The scene playing was of a gang of BG's beating down a single GG. They were hitting him with clubs and he was bleeding. It was quite forceful and vicious. And the thing that struck me as odd about the whole thing was how the bad words were bleeped out.
:confused:

One of these days I'm gonna do a school project on profanity.

Combat-wombat
April 28, 2003, 08:00 PM
Okay, so we can still say "Damn" or "Hell" or "Crap", right?

Sarge111
April 29, 2003, 12:01 AM
Obscenity is nearly impossible to define, by law or any other means. A comprehensive list of what is prohibited has been requested, and has not been provided. I do not think it requires a George Carlin diatribe to accomplish this- but "what offends us at any given moment" is a little general to be of much value to the rest of us.

I recently got censored for referring to an individual, who had shot his wife and then himself in front of their children, as the slang term for a distant and poorly regarded member of the equine family. (Perhaps this was a dreaded 'personal attack', but I doubt the recipient was much offended.) This term was used daily by members of my family to refer to these animals themselves, as well as certain obstinate humans who emulate their less-desirable traits.

My childhood learning environment, evidently, was not up to 'high road' standards.

The keepers of this zoo can certainly set limits on what may be said within it's gates, which are left unlocked. We are free to come and go as we please. I, no more than anyone else, appreciate gratituitous vulgarity. I have spent a good number of years attempting to restore order among those who 'cuss' more often than they blink.

But I appreciate obscene stupidity even less.

All in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

prhm
April 29, 2003, 12:55 AM
I'm suprised this thread has gotten this long. Oleg owns this site, and he is kind enough to let all of us hang out here with him. He asked us all very politely to watch what we say. I think that is the least we can do to show our appreciation.

Oleg Volk
April 29, 2003, 09:54 AM
I recently got censored for referring to an individual, who had shot his wife and then himself in front of their children, as the slang term for a distant and poorly regarded member of the equine family

Sarge,

As I said in the PM sent moments ago, that incident was probably an over-reaction. However, each one of the moderators has to use personal judgement as to what's vulgar and what isn't, so such instances can and likely will happen again. They aren't motivated by ill will.

In my humble opinion, "jackass" (as applied to THR non-members) is no more a slur than "niggardly" was in that famous news story. However, I am the one once extended the auto-substitution (****) list to the point which raised the brows of other moderators, so I am not the one to talk about over-reaction.

In short, feedback on improving the way we keep the peace and civility here is welcome. Please remember that we act in good faith and that we do extend that assumption to your actions as well. If the comments your get don't mesh with your sensibilities, let us know by email or PM.

RustyHammer
April 29, 2003, 10:33 AM
Oleg,

You have a tough job ... my hat is off to you. And, thanks again for this site. It's fantastic!

Rusty

Sarge111
April 29, 2003, 10:54 AM
"If the comments your get don't mesh with your sensibilities, let us know by email or PM."

Actually, I did, and the same day of the incident. It was directed to Runt, but maybe she didn't get it. Our mail server can be quite contrary here.

And to both of you- I meant no disrespect to either of you with the 'obscene stupidity' comment. My only point was that some of the stupitity I read here (and everywhere else, including police reports) occasionally, probably offends me as bad or worse as the occasional explective does you.

Fine forum, and thank you for offering it.

dongun
April 29, 2003, 03:46 PM
I don't want to feel like the Lone Ranger, being the only member not posting to this thread. So here it is:

To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heavens. Ecclesiastes 3.1

general
April 30, 2003, 01:00 PM
Durn it... I done it. Apologies to all. Will attempt intellect rather than emotion. (or emoticon rather):scrutiny:

DAL
April 30, 2003, 06:23 PM
Okay, so we can still say "Damn" or "Hell" or "Crap", right?

No, NO, NOOOO! Don't you understand that someone MIGHT be offended?! Don't you understand that "peace and civility" are paramount here?

Please, in the future, try to make your point in as bland a manner as possible. Emotions have no place here; use Mr. Spock as your guide. We cannot risk offending ANYONE, especially since an anti-gunner may just lift something vulgar off this site and use it against firearms owners in general. That's right, an errant post on THR could just be the downfall of firearms ownership in America!!!

This is the future. Get used to it and, as the Rush song says, "conform or be cast out."
DAL
;)

DAL
April 30, 2003, 06:52 PM
DAL, I detest people like you! Using thinly veiled sarcasm to make a protest against this fine site. What is the world coming to? If you were in front of me, I'd kick you tail up around your shoulder blades.

"Please, in the future, try to make your point in as bland a manner as possible." Look, son, if you don't like it here, start your own site. It's still a relatively free country, so have at it. What's the matter? Don't you have any idea how to start a discussion site of your own? So that's it, you dirty little punk. You'd rather snipe at others than do something about your perceived problem. It's people like you who are sending this country into the toilet. I'll bet you even voted for Clinton. Twice.

Oh, and "...an errant post on THR could just be the downfall of firearms ownership in America!!!" eh? Do me a favor, Einstein, and leave the absurdisms to George Carlin, et. al.

Why don't just go away and stop bothering everyone here? You don't contribute anything of value, your posts are boring, and you're probably a lousy shot. Go clean a gun or something and leave this site to the well-behaved (read: worthy) gun owners. Your type isn't wanted here.
the ALTERNATE DAL

DAL
April 30, 2003, 06:58 PM
Actually, I voted for the other white meat, twice. That's right, Libertarian.

BTW, thanks for your open-mindedness.
DAL

DAL
April 30, 2003, 07:11 PM
Oh my sweet...LIBERTARIAN?! You sissified little twirp. All they want to do is legalize drugs so they can get their share at a competitive price.

You a pot smoker, boy? You must be if you voted for a Libertarian candidate. Don't you know they have zero chance of winning? And don't go telling me some load like you were voting for your principles. All you did was insure that a Republican, the gun owner's only true friend, a friend who'll stand by you no matter what (unless it might cost them an election), didn't get your vote.


"BTW, thanks for your open-mindedness." There's that sarcasm again. Have you ever had you posterior handed to you, punk? You keep up with that kind of lip and I'll do it for you. You had better respect me and my mores, or else.

Please, just go away.
DAL

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