Need some thoughts: Colorado vs Illinois


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IlikeSA
June 27, 2010, 09:52 AM
First of all, I have studied both states laws extensively, and know that Colorado is by far the superior choice for gun freedoms. That said, here is my debate.

I am considering going to a seminary in both states, with the cost of living and the cost of tuition approximately the same, or with scholarships much cheaper in Illinois. The difference between the two is that the one in Illinois is by far more prestigious and I believe I will get a better education there, with better employment opportunities in the future. Both townships are good towns, relatively safe, and the campuses are good campuses. I have friends in both areas as well. My wife is leaning toward Illinois, but is willing to go wherever I choose.

I have resided outside of the US the past 3.5 years and really miss carrying a gun for self-defense. I know that "missing" a firearm sounds abstract, but, I do miss being able to protect myself and my wife in the best way possible. So what I am asking from ya'll is a little advice on how to make this decision.

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Deanimator
June 27, 2010, 10:28 AM
I would not recommend Illinois. Even if your town isn't corrupt, government at the state level is profoundly corrupt.

Taxes can ONLY go up.

In general, in Illinois there's no difference in competence or honesty between the parties. Neither can find their behinds with both hands. They can however find your wallet. I wouldn't trust either as far as I could throw Rosie O'Donnell.

You have no right to defend yourself outside of your home in Illinois. They make it difficult to do it inside. Don't buy the "safe town/neighborhood" malarkey. ANY neighborhood can get VERY dangerous VERY quickly, purely on the whim of one person. Recall the shooting of six women (five died) in a Tinley Park Lane Bryant clothing store. I've been to Tinley Park numerous times, I wouldn't exactly call it dangerous. Those women are still dead. And they died without the slightest chance of defending themselves. The legislators of the State of Illinois have decided that it's better for you to die than for you to be able to defend yourself outside of your home.

Pick Colorado and don't look back.

KarenTOC
June 27, 2010, 11:14 AM
Tough call, and I know everyone else will disagree with me, but I think, in your shoes, I'd opt for getting the best education (Illinois) and then high-tailing it out of the state immediately after graduation.

Your 'gunlessness' while in IL may be scary and frustrating and annoying and lots of other adjectives, but it is temporary. Your education and livelihood and ability to support your family is permanant.

(Are there really only two choices? There isn't another school anywhere else in the country that's comparable in education and prestige to the school in IL?)

Karl Hungus
June 27, 2010, 11:30 AM
I can't stand being in Ill-annoys for more than a few hours, and I'm not talking just from a gun standpoint.

Karen's last point is a good one - there has to be other choices. I honestly can't think of another state where I just couldn't live even on a very temporary basis.

IlikeSA
June 27, 2010, 11:37 AM
Honestly, the school in Illinois is like a Harvard or Oxford of seminaries. The one in Denver would be comparable to a top level state school. Please keep in mind that there are other factors in picking out a seminary (spiritual, beliefs pertaining to Christianity, etc) than simply picking a school and attending. I don't want this thread to turn into a religious topic though.

ljnowell
June 27, 2010, 11:37 AM
IF you are coming to go to school, by all means come to Illinois and get your education. I have lived here my entire life. I own all types of guns, except full auto. We are not required to by purchase permits,etc, though you will want to get a FOID card if you want to buy guns or ammo while you are here.

This state isnt as bad as many make it out to be. Hopefully, if Bill Brady can keep his foot out of his mouth long enough to get elected, we can change that conceal carry thing. He is very pro-CCW.

Old Shooter
June 27, 2010, 11:40 AM
Tough call, and I know everyone else will disagree with me, but I think, in your shoes, I'd opt for getting the best education (Illinois) and then high-tailing it out of the state immediately after graduation.

+1.

You've been 3.5 years without a carry gun for self protection already. Bone up on your self-awarreness skills. Hang out with your friends and avoid areas that don't "feel right".

After graduation get the heck out of there and pursue a career in a real state such as MOST of the other 49.

I think it would be worth it in terms of life time income and job postions in the future but I wouldn't stay there for a moment more than I had to.

Justin
June 27, 2010, 11:51 AM
If going to school in Illinois will result in having better opportunities down the road, then that's what you should do.

It would be foolish to throw away educational prestige simply because the gun laws in Illinois suck.

If it's legal, carry alternative means of defense; a taser or pepper spray.

xanderzuk
June 27, 2010, 12:11 PM
I vote Illinois as well. However, I have one question; aside from reputation what is the actual quality of education? Don't base something JUST on reputation. If it is in fact a better education, go for it. If you listened to all the "what if's" you'd never leave the safety of your bedroom.

Taurus 617 CCW
June 27, 2010, 12:30 PM
Stay away from the Denver/metro area and you will be much happier in Colorado.

Jorg Nysgerrig
June 27, 2010, 12:37 PM
One of the most important things you can do in life is to get the best education/training/mentoring you can. The earlier, the better.

If it is indeed a Oxford/Harvard vs. state school type situation and all other things are equal aside from the gun issue, it would seem silly to base your decision on the gun issue.

I do miss being able to protect myself and my wife in the best way possible.
The best way possible rarely involves a gun. :)

Onward Allusion
June 27, 2010, 01:00 PM
Gun laws aside...no CCW at all, no open carry, still no handgun ownership in Chicago...etc...etc.

Illinois is totally bankrupted both fiscally and morally. All you have to do is look up the news. Their State education system is 6 months behind in receiving their funding. Two governors in a row has been indicted and one is sitting in Club Fed with the other one fighting to stay out.

Blackbeard
June 27, 2010, 01:15 PM
I know it's fun to bash Illinois -- I do it myself all the time -- but in your circumstances, I think it's the way to go. You can't base your future on silly gun laws. So you can't carry here. Big deal. I've never carried nor ever felt the need to. The government wastes your tax money. How much does a seminary student pay in taxes anyway?

Let's get some perspective. There are more important things in life than carrying a gun everywhere.

DFW1911
June 27, 2010, 02:46 PM
As a former Colorado resident, I can tell you it's a wonderful place to live: period. It's one of those places that once you visit you pretty much want to stay. A vacation is just an hour away in the Rockies - every weekend if you choose.

However, I'm an education "junkie," and despite my strong feelings for CO I suggest you attend the better school.

Degrees do matter and the school where they were obtained is certainly a factor. I have an executive recruiting firm and look at this stuff all day long. Schools matter. And so does GPA :).

Here's a real-world example: we just placed an Organizational Management and Development VP with a well known company. Because she went to the prestigious Fielding Graduate University, we were able to get her significantly more $ that the position was budgeted for, to the tune of an additional $50K (approximately). Why? Because Fielding is the school for Org Dev training.

Go to the better school. Colorado isn't going anywhere and will be happy to have you once you complete your education.

Hope this helps.

Take care,
DFW1911

Dravur
June 27, 2010, 04:12 PM
DFW.... Don't tell him that...

Colorado sucks. There are bugs everywhere, we have high humidity and even higher temps. The Snowstorms here can kill a person. We have killer bunnies.. 9 out of 10 of us are cannibals. We regularly hold statewide goat sacrifices.

Yep, Illinois is a much better place to live.

Unless you wanna come here and help us vote out the current crop of leftist Politicos, then by all means, come on over. Stay out of Denver Metro.

IlikeSA
June 27, 2010, 06:10 PM
What's wrong with Denver metro?

Justin
June 27, 2010, 06:21 PM
It's shot through with egotistical statists who want to run your life.

IlikeSA
June 27, 2010, 06:31 PM
I see. I wonder why the best schools are always in the areas that are worse-off for freedom loving individuals?

Diocoles
June 27, 2010, 08:52 PM
Go Colorado.
Lived in the midwest, eastern Iowa.
Been all over this country.
I always came back to Colorado.
:)

Nico Testosteros
June 28, 2010, 12:58 AM
There's nobody left in Illinois.
They have all moved to Texas to join the dang Californians.

strambo
June 28, 2010, 01:08 AM
Go to the best seminary, it's temporary. Then hopefully, based on your denomination, and luck/what's available, you can then move to a free state!

earlthegoat2
June 28, 2010, 01:11 AM
Im coming from a different and purely pessimistic background. Since my higher education has so far amounted to me being able to be underemployed and mostly unemployed for the last 5 years (thankfully, a full ride scholarship saved me from college debt) I would say to not bend over backwards for Illinois and go for Colorado so you do not have to put up being so restricted with your firearm hobby.

I know my position is a unique one so my perception is skewed but I have no faith in the educational process and the results it supposedly guarantees and I firmly believe you will be no better served in the end no matter which school you go to. If the one in Illinois will be less expensive and that is important to you then maybe you should consider it but I would be high tailing it to CO if it was up to me.

I was a firearms enthusiast when I was in school and the state I lived in at the time (MI) was good to be living in compared to some of the other ones I could have considered going to.

cleardiddion
June 28, 2010, 01:15 AM
Can't go wrong with the best state in the union! (Colorado) :D

leadcounsel
June 28, 2010, 01:31 AM
Nonsense. For anyone who values freedom Illinois is NOT the place to reside. Illinois is probably the most corrupt state in the nation, or at least in the top few. And as far as the 2A, forget it.

I would place freedom over perceived 'prestige' of some academia... besides after your first job after school nobody cares at all where you went to college or grad school.

Illinois makes me want to PUKE quite frankly. I hope that the McDonald case shoves it down their throat! Illinois is disgrace to freedoms everywhere!!! :cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

There are only a few places you could not FORCE me to live, and Illinois is one of them. UGH.... Ranks up there with NY, CA, NJ, and MA. The worst....

I lived in Colorado and it's a great place to live. I would pick that over almost any other state.

These two places are literally night and day opposite ends of the spectrum. Colorado is in my top 5 and Illinois in my bottom 5.

Prestige of a school is a lot of bunk IMO. A great X professional will do well regardless of where his/her alma matter is, and a crummy one will do poorly. You can only ride on your U. of Chicago degree so far...

Colorado has great Universities to offer for most professions. If not good enough go someplace else, but just don't go to Illinois


Frankly, where most people go to college/grad school is where most people settle down and raise their family. They spend formative years there, buy property, make friends, build a life for several years. Why risk doing that in a corrupt commy state when there are 45 better ones???? Why unnecessarily go years not being able to CCW or buy guns to defend your family or yourself? Silliness if you ask me.

IlikeSA
June 28, 2010, 06:07 AM
It seems there a quite a few good points by many posters. I want to thank everyone so far for their perspective and experience in their advice. I haven't made up my mind as of yet and still have some time to think and pray through the process. It just seems as the older I get (I am 29 now) the more complex life seems to become. I think that learning to deal with those complexities and simplifying them is a part of learning to act wisely. I believe I would have told myself Denver Seminary a few years ago, which is why I never looked at Trinity, but as I have gotten older, and hopefully a little wiser, my own value of education has grown to be as competitive as my value of freedom. These values are values I try to pass on to my students, who plan to attend school in the US.

Now that I have married, it is not totally my decision anymore, but I must think of another. I must ask myself if I am making a decision out of innate selfishness, or if I am making the decision of what I believe to be best. I suppose that is not an answer that anyone can really give me, but only I can find in the state of my own heart.

Thank you for your perspectives, and please, continue to comment. I value the wisdom of others.

Tacbandit
June 28, 2010, 11:11 AM
Quote: by IlikeSA
"I haven't made up my mind as of yet and still have some time to think and pray through the process..."

Now you're headed in the right direction...

leadcounsel
June 28, 2010, 12:05 PM
Did the great thinkers of the world go to a certain university?

Old Shooter
June 28, 2010, 12:16 PM
So how long will you be going to school in (assuming) Illinois?

How long do you plan on being living and wantingto eat hot food and sleep indoors?

Go to the best college(in your mind) and then begin your life where-ever.

Not everyone who lives in Illinois has been robbed, raped, shot, stabbed, beaten or taxed to death. I know, I met one of them just a few years back. :)

Robert
June 28, 2010, 12:39 PM
Go where God sends you. If it is IL then rejoice and be happy. If it is CO then rejoice and be happy.

wishin
June 28, 2010, 12:59 PM
While there are many people who claim that they'd never live in CA, IL, NY, NJ and other states because of their gun laws, I firmly believe a lot of them would question their own convictions if they were in a position such as yours. Stay away from Chicago; otherwise go where you can get the best education and opportunity.

oldbear
June 28, 2010, 01:10 PM
I am considering going to a seminary in both states, with the cost of living and the cost of tuition approximately the same, or with scholarships much cheaper in Illinois. The difference between the two is that the one in Illinois is by far more prestigious and I believe I will get a better education there, with better employment opportunities in the future. Both townships are good towns

I think you just answered your own question, best of luck to you.

ohgrady
June 28, 2010, 11:27 PM
Don't forget, Denver has its own assault weapons ban

http://www.rmgo.org/faq/DenverOrd.shtml

It is very simple, no rifle mags over 20 rounds is the main point. I'm in Illinois, despite the unfriendly environment on firearms, I can own magazines that hold over 20 rounds in my part of the state.

If I were you, I would plan part of my decision on where I want to be after school and how each school will help me get there. If you aren't sure, that is a reason to pick a more prestigious school. While it may not make a lot of difference years later when you are job hunting/moving on, it may help with your first job out of school.

tooltech
June 29, 2010, 12:02 AM
Unless you live in the city and county of Denver, you can have pretty much what you want. Relative to the rest of the state, or even the metro area, that is a very small area.

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