[pax]

Everyone,

It's time to update the THR Library (http://www.thehighroad.org/library/), and we need your help to do so. There are a lot of smart people here, and all of us together know more than any one of us alone. So here's what we're going to do:

If you would like to see a definition for a puzzling term ("what's a mall ninja?") but don't know the answer yourself, please post it in this thread as a question for others to answer, so that THR members' knowledge can be pooled in the library. It'd help if you put the term you're asking about in bold print, so that it stands out on a quick skim-through.

If you have a contribution including a definition for the Glossary (http://www.thehighroad.org/library/terms.html), Acronym (http://www.thehighroad.org/library/acron.html), or FAQ (http://www.thehighroad.org/library/faq.html) pages, please post it in this thread. It'd help if you would put just the title of your entry in bold print, so that it stands out.

If you'd like to extend someone else's definition, go ahead and do so in this thread. Please be sure to put the term you are talking about in bold print, to make it easier for others to spot as they scroll down.

If you have a grammatical pet peeve that you'd like others to know about, please post it here so it can be included on our Grammar 101 (http://www.thehighroad.org/library/grammar.html) page.

Once this thread has grown awhile, I'll come through and harvest the entries for inclusion in the Library, and one of our tech-savvy admin types will post it for us.

Thanks for your help, people.

pax

[pax]

By the way, credit goes to member Alexey931 for the basic idea -- with an additional thanks to MoparMike and Pytron whose posts at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52769 are a great example of the sorts of entries I'd like to see here.

Thanks, guys.

pax

[Snake Eyes]

THEN: Adverb, Noun or Adjective

1--At that time: I was still in school then. Come at noon; I'll be ready then.

2--Next in time, space, or order; immediately afterward: watched the late movie and then went to bed.

3--In addition; moreover; besides: It costs $20, and then there's the sales tax to pay.

4--Used after but to qualify or balance a preceding statement: The star was nervous, but then who isn't on the first night of a new play.

5--In that case; accordingly: If traffic is heavy, then allow extra time.

6--As a consequence; therefore: The case, then, is closed.

THAN: Conjunction

1--Used after a comparative adjective or adverb to introduce the second element or clause of an unequal comparison: She is a better athlete than I.

2--Used to introduce the second element after certain words indicating difference: He draws quite differently than she does.

3--When. Used especially after hardly and scarcely: I had scarcely walked in the door than the commotion started.

Thank You!

Peter

[Khornet]

not accidently.

[OF]

"Site" vs. "Sight"

"Your" vs. "You're"

I'll name my firstborn after anyone who can come up with a way that we can stop people from thinking that just because they are free to have an opinion and voice said opinion that everyone else should pat them on the back and say "Great opinion, buddy! Thanks!"

I hate that.

- Gabe

<edited for grammatical error! yikes!>

[pax]

What's a drop safety and how does it work?

pax

[pytron]

We definitely need a link to the four rules and perhaps a link to a gun safety primer?

-Pytron

[keyhole]

Drop safety?

Izzn't that where you drop yer gun, without scratchin it?:D

[grampster]

Keyhole,

To drop yer gun without scratchin' it would be to drop yer gun SAFELY. HEH

:D :neener:

[Stickjockey]

Pax-

Puzzling question:
Just what is a mall ninja, anyway?

Contribution:
Nothing of my own, but how about importing some stuff from the TFL library? Specifically, links to some of the great essays from TFL and elsewhere, such as:

The 5-Minute Handbook
Metal and Wood
A Nation of Cowards

And links to prominent 2A cases:

U.S. v. Miller
U.S. v. Emerson
U.S. v. Haney
U.S. v. Cruikshank (sp?)
any others

and last but not least, the TFL Flash Theatre!

Also, as long as we're on the subject of grammar 101, can we add proper use of prepositions? I don't see it here much but my personal grammatical pet peeve is ending sentences n prepositions, eg, "where are you at ?"

[B_Scott]

Pronunciation Key

Carbine - k a r b e e n

Heckler and Koch - See Sig Sauer below and scroll down.

Mosin Nagant -
HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48319&highlight=pronounce)

Sig Sauer - HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45401&highlight=pronounce)

Hoppe's - HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40970&highlight=pronunciation)

Anybody else got any to add / ask?

[Mike Irwin]

ORDNANCE -- Military hardware, such as cannons and artillery.


ORDINANCE -- A law, rule, or regulation.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KURZ -- German, meaning short, as associated with cartridges, including the 7.92 Kurz or 9mm Kurz.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leupold -- American optics manufacturer. Not Leopold, Lupold, etc.

[B_Scott]

ooo good one -

Pronunciation of "Leupold" = loop + old ??

[Mike Irwin]

"Pronunciation of "Leupold" = loop + old ??"

No.

LOO - pold.

[sm]

Mag : Magazine- ammunition holders that are equipped with a spring to move the ammo, these are not clips.


Clip : A strip of metal that is used to hold cartridges together to facilitate the loading into (usually) an internal rifle magazine.

[Andrew Rothman]

"Sound bite," not "sound byte"

[Mike Irwin]

Mpayne,

Is it wrong to say "Byte me" when requesting someone send you a file via e-mail? :D

[sm]

Is it wrong to say "Byte me" when requesting someone send you a file via e-mail?
:D
Makes better sense than some of the current terms in use...
Oh I can't wait to use that one ;)
Does it come with a smilie?

[Phil Ca]

Heres one that even the media mavens on their news banners mess up. The difference between, LOOSE and LOSE .

LOOSE is when something is not tight.

LOSE is when something is not there, its now lost.



:D

[BigG]

What's a drop safety and how does it work?

Typically used in autoloading pistols, a drop safety prevents the firing pin from moving forward into contact with the cartridge primer unless the trigger is pulled.

Examples are the Series 80 Colt and the Glock pistols which aren't supposed to fire if dropped. Older Colt automatics were said to be capable of firing if the gun were dropped on its muzzle.

TRIVIA: Tests by the US Navy indicated the Model of 1911A1 had to drop something like 27 feet (IIRC) onto a hard surface and hit on the muzzle before the gun would discharge.

[Gewehr98]

Muzzle Brake. As opposed to the commonly-seen Muzzle Break.

Examples of both terms:

"A muzzle brake uses residual gas pressure to reduce recoil and assist in quick sight picture recovery."

"When Bubba dropped his WalMart Remington 710 into the abandoned quarry while shooting rockchucks, you should have seen his muzzle break as it hit the granite outcropping beneath him!"

or:

"When one is shooting in a stage at an IPSC match, he should never let his muzzle break the 180° rule!"

:D

[BluesBear]

What's with people saying prolly when what they mean is probably

Looks like all of my other pet peeves have been covered in the grammar section.
Now we just have to get prople to read it.

Most people I have chatted with don't even realize that the library section is even there. (So much for situational awareness.)

If you're going to quote something someone said more than 1 or 2 posts previously PLEASE include their name in the quote so we can find out the context of it. Just using "quotes" to show another persons words is confusing also. Especially if you have an opposing viewpoint regarding the quote.

[pax]

Good so far! Keep 'em coming, people...

Can someone give a concise explanation of a safety and maybe a quick list of different types of safeties?

Maybe someone fond of shotguns could tell us about over-under shotguns.

In riflery: are bolt-actions similar to lever-actions?

pax

[BluesBear]

I find it AMAZING the number of people who are on this board every day or almost everyday who NEVER read their private messages.

Many don't even know the ability exists. :rolleyes:

Didn't they see it when they signed up? IIRC it is automatically set to notify you at sign on when you have an unread one.

And it seems that some of the Moderators have theirs turned off. :mad:

[Standing Wolf]

I wouldn't mind seeing a list of Smith & Wesson frame names, model numbers, and calibers, as well as Colt frame designations, model names, and calibers. Heck, if we really wanted to get sophisticated about it, we could include years of manufacture and serial numbers, too, although I have no idea how much brute labor would be involved in such a task.

[BluesBear]

S&W

S&W revolver names before World War II
Name Caliber Frame
.22 Hand Ejector Ladysmith 22 Long M
.22/32 Target 22 Long Rifle I
.22 Outdoorsman 22 Long Rifle K
.32 Hand Ejector (round Butt) 32 S&W Long I
.32 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 32 S&W Long I
.32-20 Hand Ejector 32-20 Win. K
.38 Military&Police 38 Spl K
.38 Hand Ejector (same as above, with
adjustable sights)
.38 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 38 S&W I
.38 Terrier 2" Round Butt 38 S&W I
.38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights) 38 Spl N
.38/44 Outdoorsman (Adj. Sights) 38 Spl N
.357 Magnum 357 Mag N
.44 HAnd Ejector Military Model 44 Spl N
.44 Hand ejector Model 1926 44 Spl N
(shrouded extractor rod)
.45 U.S. Army Revolver, Model 1917 45 ACP N
.455 Hand ejector British Service 455 Mark II N

Letter designations assigned S&W Revolvers 1900-1930
32 Double Action R
32 Safety Hammerless G
38 Single Action S
38 Double Action D
38 Safety Hammerless Y
44 Double Action L
22 Hand Ejector M
32 Hand ejector I
38 Military and Police K
44 Hand Ejector N
38 Double Action Perfect P
22 Perfect Single Shot T
35 Automatic A
32 Regulation Police B
38 Regulation Police E
22/32 Heavy Frame Target V

Factory Model/caliber designation begun in 1930s
22/32 Tarket IT22 Square Butt
22/32 Kit Gun IT22 Round Butt
K-22 Masterpiece KT22
32 Hand Ejector I32 Round Butt
32 Regulation Police I32 Square Butt
K-32 Masterpiece KT32
38 Regulation Police I38 Square Butt
38 S&W Terrier I32 Round Butt
38 Military & Police K38
38/44 Heavy Duty N38
K-38 Masterpiece KT38
38/44 Outdoorsman NT38
357 Magnum NT357
1926 Model 44 Military N44
1926 Model 44 Target NT44
1917 Army N45


S&W Model Listing
Model year year Frame Caliber Name
intro Discon Size
10 1899 K 38 Spl Military & Police
10 HB 1960 K 38 Spl Military & Police Heavy Barrel
11 1936 1965 K 38 S&W Military & Police
12 1953 1986 KA 38 Spl Military & Police Airweight
13 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Magnum M&P
14 1947 1982 KT 38 Spl K-38 Masterpiece
15 1949 KT 38 Spl K-38 Combat Masterpiece
16 1947 1973 KT 32 S&W Long K-32 Masterpiece
17 1946 KT 22 LR K-22 Masterpiece
18 1949 1986 KT 22 LR K-22 Combat Masterpiece
19 1955 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Magnum
20 1930 1966 N 38 Spl 38/44 Heavy Duty
21 1908 1966 N 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Military
22 1917 1966 N 45 ACP 1950 Model 45 Army
23 1931 1966 NT 38 Spl 38/44 Outdoorsman
24 1908 1966 NT 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Target
24 1984 1984 NT 44 Spl 7500 units reintroduced
25 1955 1983 NT 45 ACP 1955 Model 45 Target
25-3 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Commemorative
25-4 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Delux Comm
25-5 1978 NT 45 Colt 45 Colt
26 1950 1966 NT 45 ACP 1950 45 Target Light Barrel
27 1935 NT 357 Mag 357 Magnum
28 1954 1986 NT 357 Mag 357 Highway Patrolman
29 1955 NT 44 Mag 44 Magnum
30 1896 1976 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Hand Ejector
31 1917 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Regulation Police
32 1936 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Terrier
33 1917 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Regulation Police
34 1936 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun 4" barrel
35 1911 1973 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Target 6" Barrel
36 1950 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special
37 1952 JA 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Airweight
38 1955 JAC 38 Spl Bodyguard
39 1954 1981 Auto 9mm 9mm Double Action
both alloy and steel
39-1 1960 1960 Auto 38 AMU Commonly called M-52A
alloy
40 1952 1974 JS 38 Spl Centennial
41 1952 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi-Automatic
41-1 1960 1972 Auto 22 short 22 Short Semi-Auto
42 1953 1974 JAT 22 LR Centennial Airweight
43 1954 1974 JAT 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun Airweight
44 1954 1959 Auto 9mm 9mm Semi, Single Action
alloy
45 1936 1965 K 22 LR 22 Military & Police
46 1959 1968 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi Auto
47 Experimental number used on several guns
48 1959 1986 KTM 22 WMRF K-22 Masterpiece MRF
49 1959 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Steel Frame
50 1955 1975 JT 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
51 1960 1974 JTM 22 WMRF 22/32 MRF Kit Gun
52 1961 Auto 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
Steel
52-A See Model 39-1
53 1961 1974 KTC 22 Jet 22 center fire magnum
54 Experimental never issued
55 Experimental never issued
56 1962 1963 KT 38 Spl KTX 38 Became Mod 15 2" bl.
57 1964 NT 41 Mag 41 Magnum
58 1964 1978 N 41 Mag 41 Magnum Military& Police
59 1971 1981 Auto 9mm 14 shot 9mm Semi-Auto
Alloy
60 1965 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Stainless
61 1970 1973 Auto 22 LR 22 Escort
62 Experimental never issued
63 1977 JT 22 LR 1977 22/32 Kit Gun Stainless
64 1970 K 38 Spl 38 Military&Police Stainless
65 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Mag M&P Stainless
66 1971 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Mag Stainless
67 1972 KT 38 Spl 38 Combat Masterpiece Stainless
68 1976 1976 KT 38 Spl California Highway Patrol
Model Stainless
69/75 Not officially assigned -- used experimentally
76 1968 1974 Auto 9mm Machine Pistol
77 1970 1978 22 cal Air rifle
78 1971 1978 22 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
79 1971 1978 177 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
80 1975 1978 177 BB CO2 Semi Auto Rifle


New Model Numbering System
--------------------------
147-A 1979 1979 9mm 14 shot DA steel frame Model 59
439 1979 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
459 1979 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
469 1983 9mm 12 Shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
520 1980 1980 N 357 Mag, Fixed Sights
539 1980 1983 9mm 8 shot DA semi auto Carbon Steel
547 1980 1985 K Steel 9mm Military & Police
559 1980 1983 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Carbon Steel
581 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Magnum
586 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Magnum
624 1985 1986 NT 44 Spl 1985 Target Stainless
629 1979 NT 44 Mag Stainless
639 1982 Auto 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
645 1985 Auto 45ACP DA Semi Auto Stainless
649 1985 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Stainless
650 1982 JM 22 WMRF Service Kit Gun Stainless
651 1982 JTM 22 WMRF Target Kit Gun Stainless
659 1982 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA semi Auto Stainless
669 1985 Auto 9mm 12 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
681 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Mag Stainless
686 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Mag Stainless


Model and Dash numbering system
--------------------------------
Model 10
-1 1959 Heavy Barrel
-2 1961 Changed extractor rod thread to LH on standard barrel
-3 1961 Same as above, for heavy barrel
-4 1962 Screw in front of trigger eliminated
-5 1962 1/10" to 1/8" front sight, on standard barrel
-5 1962 Screw in front of trigger guard eliminated on
heavy barrel model
-7 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-8 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
on heavy barrel model
Model 12 1957
-1 1962 Change extractor rod to LH thread, eliminate
screw in front of trigger guard
-2 1962 Front sight changed from 1/10" to 1/8"
-3 1977 Gas ring on yoke to cylinder
-4 1984 Change frame thickness to same as all K frames
Model 13 No designation used to avoid confusion with air force model
13 air crewman
Model 13
-1 1974 Introduced
-2 1977 Change back to gas ring on cylinder
-3 1982 eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 14,15,16,17,18,48,53 (all start without dash in 1957)
-1 1959 Change to LH extractor rod thread
-2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
guard eliminated
-3 1967 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
-4 1977 Changed gas ring from yoke to cylinder
19 All of the above changes and
-5 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore

N-Frame Model Blue
------------------

Model 20,21,22,23,24,25 (except 25-5) 26,27,28,29
-1 1960 Change to LH thread
-2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
guard eliminated
-3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore (magnums only)
Model 57 1964 Introduced
-1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 629 1980 Introduced
-1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
Model 25-5 1978 -5 means 45 Colt caliber
125'th anniversary model, -3 (standard) -4 (delux)
both of these used a shorter than standard cylinder.
K-Frame Stainless Models
------------------------
64 1970 Introduced
-1 1972 Heavy barrel
-2 1977 2" standard barrel, gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-3 1977 Same as above, for heavy barrel
65 -1 1974 introduced
-2 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
66 1971 introduced
-1 1977 Gas ring from yoke to cylinder
-2 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
67 1972 introduced
-1 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
39 1957 start of model numbering system
-1, 1961 Made in 38 AMU cartridge for military 87 made.
52-A -2 1971 Change of extractor
41 1957 start of model numbering system
-1 1960 22 Short chambering
(dash number not always stamped)
52 1961 introduced
-1 1963 Single action only
-2 1971 Changed extractor
52-A See model 39-1
59 1971 introduced, no dash numbers used during production
61 1970 introduced in March
-1 May '70 Add magazine safety
-2 Sep '70 Addition of barrel nut
-3 1971 Forged Al frame
76 1968 introduced, discontinued 1974 no dash numbers used

Small Frame Revolvers
---------------------
Model 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35
1957 Start of numbering system
-1 1961 Change from I frame to J frame
36 -1 1967 Indicates 3" heavy barrel
37, 38, 40, 42, 43, 49, 63, 649, 650, 651
No dash numbers ued on above numbers
60 1965 Introduced
-1 1972 Heavy barrel variation made in 1972, not marketed limited production only


COLT

D frame = Detective Special, Diamondback
P frame = Single Action Army
O frame = Government, Commander & Officers ACP
I frame = Python, Trooper aka .41 frame

that's all of the Colts I can think of off the top of my head

[Starpower]

Reprinted from December issue of Reader's Digest

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and last ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by istlef but the wrod as wlohe.

[P95Carry]

A Smith ''Tour de force'' Bear!!:)

Pax ...... bolt ....vs lever Overall distictively different.

BOLT (generic) - is much like a house bolt ... a straight and notionally round long rod with a handle .. and lugs that enable locking when the whole is rotated. Fancy things like extractor are added ... and of course down middle a firing pin!

Remember tho the part in almost any gun that houses the firing pin and restrains the case in the chamber is still a bolt ... like in an AK, AR etc .. but ''BOLT ACTION'' is describing what i have outlined.



LEVER - can be simplified into two categories .. the ''falling block'' variety .. a la Martini Henry .... and then the other main one like my Savage 99C ... where a bolt is made to travel rearward on operation of the lever .. either ejecting a spent case and/or opening access to chamber for an insertion of new round. As Lever is closed up .. bolt travels forward to impinge once more on case and lock up.

I am sure others could provide a better and more elegant synopsis of these two varieties.

[Skunkabilly]

Beretta.

Not Baretta. :fire:
Not Barreta. :cuss:
Not Baretta. :mad:
Not Baratta. :banghead:
Not Barrata. :barf:

Beretta.

[45R]

Please add Bling Bling :)

[Mr Jody Hudson]

We never did get the definition of Mall Ninja?????? Is it already posted somewhere?

[pax]

Jody,

Start at http://www.geocities.com/suketh.geo/gun/mall_ninja_1.html for a basic understanding of the term. That was the original 'mall ninja' thread, which first appeared on GlockTalk. There are a bunch of equally hilarious threads on TFL from around the same time frame.

Anyone want to give a condensed explanation of what a mall ninja is? I can't get mine short enough...

pax

[Thumper]

Here's a couple of must-haves, pax:

I think the copyright issues are long past here, but I know nothing about such things.

Shooting to Live

http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/shooting_to_live.pdf

and Kill or Get Killed

http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/Kill_or_Get_Killed.pdf

[Alexey931]

WSD - White Self Destruction
IPSC - International Practical Shooting Confederation
IDPA - ?


ought six or '06 - the .30-06 US Springfield M2 (7.62x63) round


battery, out of - a condition when the slide stops short of the normal forward position while chambering a round. This prevents firing with any functional pistol. Questions: 1. What is the correct wording for the opposite (normal) condition (in battery, locked up)? 2. Does this term belong exclusively to pistols? If so, what is the correct set of terms for other breech loaders?


stripper clip - a clip used for loading magazines by way of mounting it over the mag and pushing the rounds with your thumb into the mag. The stripper clip is to be discarded immediately after the loading. The most common examples: SKS, M14.


en bloc clip - a clip used for loading magazines by way of inserting it inside the mag along with the rounds it contains. It cannot be discarded until the last round is shot. The most common example: M1 Garand.

[Devonai]

"Carbine" can be pronounced with a long E or a long I in the second syllable, according to my dictionary. Somebody's personal preference for one or the other should not end up in THR's lexicon, with all due respect.

[sm]

Disclaimer: Not meant as derogatory to any security guards, armoured car guards, LEO active or retired.

Mall Ninja wannabe LEO/SWAT/HRT...etc., whom couldn't cut it, and has more imagination than common sense that is employed by a mall. Easily excited, overly dressed for sucess AEB by "Bat Belt". Though makes minimum wage, spends monies on magazines and catalogs. usually has no gun, because A) couldn't pass shooting req's, B) spent monies on aforementioned magazines and "Bat Belt".

OH heck...pax was right ( as usual). Go to a mall in 5 min you'll know.:D

One of those life deals one must experience...words...words...ain't none to describe. Whatever you do don't take a picture...we couldn't stand it and for heavens sake don't rile the critters.:p Best observed from a distance.

[Alexey931]

Ma Deuce: Browning M2 machine gun (.50)
Big Mama: ?
Armadillo, Amorous: ?

A very on topic link:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=17&letter=A


Best regards

[Alexey931]

NBC: ? (gun related)
NRA: National Rifle Association
GOA: Gun Owners of America
JPFO: ?
CRPA: ? (alternative to Certified Royal Pain in the A--)
USPSA: ?

Best regards

[stellarpod]

Use of to vs. too

"I'm going to the rifle range today."

"I'd go with you, but I've just got too much work to do."

stellarpod

[BluesBear]

It is NOT ought six

It is AUGHT six


OUGHT = -- used to express obligation <ought to pay our debts>, advisability <ought to take care of yourself>, natural expectation <ought to be here by now>, or logical consequence <the result ought to be infinity>

NAUGHT = the arithmetical symbol 0
'aught is the colloquial pronounciation of naught



Thirty Aught Six = 30 0 6 :)

Thirty Ought Six = 30 should be 6 :uhoh:

[Hawk]

Gun / photography question:

Why do so many firearm photos include some form of cylindrical device (shotgun shell, wood dowel, brass cartridge, "C" battery, crayon, mini flashlight, vienna sausage, etc., etc.) stuck in the trigger guard?

I'm betting there's a good reason, but I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess what it might be.

[Gewehr98]

The objects in the trigger guards are there to raise the gun off the background surface, for a better picture, vs. the gun laying flat. ;)

[45R]

The little things in the trigger guard are to hold the pistol up for better pictures. :)

[BigG]

30/06 = I thought it was THIRTY ODD SIX. :D

[BrokenPaw]

LOSE is when something is not there, its now lost. [emphasis mine]
Phil Ca: You've uncovered one of the cardinal rules of Internet Grammar Nitpicking. To wit: It is astoundingly difficult to write a nitpicky post without making a mistake in it that someone else can nitpick. :D

No, I don't actually have anything useful to add to the thread...

-BP

[cdbeaver]

This is no professional description, but I own two of them so maybe I can explain a bit about--

Over-under shotgun: A double-barrelled shotgun with one barrel super-imposed over another rather than side-by-side.

Over-unders can have double or single triggers.

Over-unders can be selective as to which barrel fires first, but not all have that added-cost feature. If not, then the bottom barrel generally fires first and it most often is the modified barrel of a modified-full choke set of barrels.

Some over-under shotguns are equipped with ejectors to eject fired cases; others have only lifters to pull the empty or loaded cartridge out of the chamber far enough to be grasped with the fingers.

Over-unders come in 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges. Perhaps also in .410 bore and 10-gauge, though I have no personal experience with the latter two.

[Erich]

Muzzle brake

Please.

[Mike Irwin]

How about bullet abbreviations?

L - Lead

J - Jacketed

SJ - Semi Jacketed.

RN - Lead Round Nose

SWC - Semi Wadcutter

WC - Wadcutter

HP - Hollow Point

SP - Soft Point

TC - Truncated Cone


The above abbreviations can be combined in a number of ways to describe a bullet with multiple charactieristics.

For example:

LRN -- Lead Round Nose

JHP -- Jacketed Hollow Point

Or, the ever popular...

LSWCHP -- Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollow Point.

[P95Carry]

OK ... first a small grammar/spell gripe, as we've had a few!! ''ect'' ??? How come?? The word ''ETCETERA is abreviated normally to ''ETC''.!! And means ''and so on/and so forth''.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK other thing - and bear with me, it's an old matter. Maybe not even library material at all. But it concerns images.........

OK, many people have DSL/broadband . I don't and I ain't gonna explain the why. But .... much as I well appreciate fine pics - and we get plenty ... I find it a pain in a$$ to wait ages for a whole page of pics to download .... sometimes a page pic burden can become 2Mb or more with all the big ones. Plus, sometimes I could run browser full-screen at 1280 .. and still have pics scrolling off!!

I brought this up before and a lot of people don't seem to care. OK fine, but for those who just might here is my suggestion/request .. as maybe a library item if deemed any use.

Most people who take pics at high resolution probably know enough about image work, and have image applications - to be able to reduce both size physically and file size too. It's not difficult . and many could do it just by using a freebie like ''Irfanview''.

My own personal suggestion as to what is well adequate (and let's face it ...... it can save some bandwidth too) - is to have a pic no bigger than 600 pixel max dimension .. and compressed so not much bigger than 50 -60k. This can be well adequate to show what is needed ... and a high-res can even be made available if someone wants it... by request.

Admittedly there are times when a hot-linked pic is pretty large ... that cannot always be helped.

For those who don't care ... flame away. I just think it would help many more than just me.

Sorry Pax if this is not very on topic!

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Thank you for the Mall Ninja definitions! Now I know AND... I know one! He however is far, far, better as he has experienced several shootings (five accidental discharges IN the locker room at his work).

Yes, he has a real gun, several of them, often 7 on his person.

AND... he has used his special baton several times. He has even used his special metal curly angled hooky thingy that can be used for grabbing and pulling and twisting limbs on people. Someone made a face at him through a car window and he busted in the car window with his thingy and got it around thier neck and pulled them out of the car. That was his last day at that job for a while. His dad had a LOT of political power there and kept getting him hired back and getting his file purged.

What was really interesting was that ALL of us would make fun of him, TO HIS FACE, and his responses were strangely much like the Mall Ninja responses from Gecko! Ahhh, truth and fiction can be such close kindred.

Thanks for clearing up the definition and for helping me wash my eyes with tears of laughter this morning! :D

[MicroBalrog]

We need a link to the James Castilla and Shannon Harper threads.

[Starpower]

P95carry: huh? As I've said before, my idea of cutting edge technology in the world of communications is an IBM Selectric II. When I took a picture of my SAR 1 and tried to attach it, it was too big to attach. So my buddy, Bill Gates Jr. cut it down by removed edges off of it until it would fit. Wiseguy then took it and blew it up bigger and re-posted it, and I still have no idea what either one of them did. So all these pic pages, it ain't me.:confused:

[BluesBear]

Mr Jody now you have opened the can.

You HAVE to tell us more.!

[sm]

Suzanna Gratia Hupp Needs to be referenced.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26783&highlight=Gratia

There may better links to her, her story, and references. Suggestions welcome.

[powderific]

Someone asked about these in this thread:

IDPA- International Defensive Pistol Association
JPFO- Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership
USPSA- United States Practical Shooting Association

[tyme]

powderific, those acronyms are in a separate section: "Organizations" right below "common acronyms."

I'm not sure it's best to include the names of every type of firearm in the terminology section. I'm sure someone doesn't know what a bolt-action rifle is. I'm sure someone doesn't know what a fixed magazine is. Are we going to have all of those there too?

As for bullet type abbreviations, many of them are in the "common acronyms" list. I think it wouldn't be such a big deal to leave them out, but they're already there... and really, any subject area that has one-letter acronyms ought to be omitted on principle. :)

[powderific]

wups :o my bad, I didn't realize that we already had a library! :D

BTW... Someone should really edit the Molon Labe page to include the correct Greek spelling (as shown on the shirts).

[Dionysusigma]

James Castilla thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27373

A be-all, end-all to the AR versus AK debate should be in there. :p

Also, I didn't even know there was a THR library, due to the location of its link. Maybe both the Library link and the Rules of Conduct link should be made a bit more obvious.

Also, making it look more like the rest of the forum would help a bit too.

[Dionysusigma]

Oh--I forgot to ask... Where the :cuss: is the trigger on a Browning 1919?

[Devonai]

There is no trigger, you just kind of whack it with the nearest piece of wood (or E2). :neener:

[tyme]

Okay, so where should the library link be? No matter where it is, without a front page like at TFL, people aren't going to find it.

[BluesBear]

dionysusigma,

It's the little curved thingy at the lower rear of the receiver in front of the grip.

[sm]

tyme,

The Library Link is fine where it is.

We don't need a Front Page. Many of us had to get used to THR from TFL, some still getting adjusted. The current Library is fine, and taking shape. If a new feature or announcement is needed, do what you fine folks always do, post it as a sticky. When the sticky falls off, we members can educate each other. We can be very good at telling people who/what/where/when.

[Alexey931]

Concerning 'out of battery'. The vertical part of the L-shaped flash pan lid of the classical flintlock, which the flint strikes sparks from, is called frizzen or battery (which is a good word to serve it's purpose). So, quite naturally, 'out of battery' is a condition when the flint is too short to reach the battery and strike sparks. Modern firearms just inherited the term. Anybody care to verify this conclusion?

Best regards

PS It's just as I feared. A thread as a tool just isn't up to the task of making a dictionary. Hard on small talk, easy on contribution and already sunk deep :(

[Alexey931]

There is a procedure of rendering a muzzle loading cannon inoperable. It consists simply of driving a nail into the touchhole. There is a nice word for it which I dont remember. What is it?

Best regards

[XLMiguel]

This one irks me consistently, animals, including humans, have a sex, not a gender

Sex is one's biological construction, i.e male or female, hung or split.

Gender is a linguistic convention that refers to or identifies the subjects sex's sex, masculine for male, feminine for female, neuter (or neutral) for things without sex (i.e . his, hers or its) ). Gender identitiy is a whole 'nother issue beyond the scope of a firearms BBS.

[Smoke]

Alexey934

I believe the term you are looking for is "Spike "

Spiking the cannon was an effective way to render the ordnance temporarily out of battery.

I really hope I spelled everything here correctly....

Smoke

[Starpower]

Mike in Va: When I was stationed in the Philippines I had a Christmas party at my house. I put on the invitation to bring an exchange gift for your sex, and you should see some the things that were exchanged! Maybe "gender" would have worked better that situation. BTW, Mike, I wondered if your complaint was "gender specific"?

[Alexey931]

As everybody knows, there is no universally accepted definition of a caliber. It is distressing enough to realize that .30, .303 and .308 all boil down to 7.62. Has something to do with the bullets, they say :). But whatever the hell does 5.56 mean? It is certainly neither .222 nor .223 nor .224. .22 is the closest but still is 5.59. BTW, .22 lr barrels are 5.45, as measured at lands (minimum diameter of the bore), hence 5.45 AK-74. But what is 5.56?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

5.56mm comes closest to .218".

Maybe since they were using the same diameter bullet as the .218 Bee they decided to convert the .218" measurement?

[Alexey931]

.218 * 25.4 = 5.54. No better than anything else :(

Best regards

[pax]

P95Carry,

No, you make a really good point, one that should probably be covered in the FAQ pages. Thanks.

pax

[P95Carry]

Thx pax ... I hate to whine about anything at all here ... really ... but does seem like it could help more than just me!!

Best

[gbran]

JAIL = Journey for Actively Ignoring Liability

[Alexey931]

recoil lug: a lug on the receiver by which the recoil impulse is passed to the stock.

[pax]

Any more ideas, questions, comments?

pax

[Majic]

An addition to the double barreled shotgun ejectors mentioned earlier. There are automatic ejectors also. They eject only the fired shell when the breech is opened. The unfired shell is just extracted from the chamber.

The single trigger double barrel can be a selective or non selective model. The selective trigger models have a switch, usually the safety, which you can set for selecting which barrel to fire first.

[P95Carry]

Good point there majic, re the selective aspect. My Citori Hunter was just that - selection thru safety .. and very nice feature too.

But to add .. another way that exists is like on my Russian Baikal ... here the trigger is pushed fwd a tad .. to change from default bottom barrel, to top. Bit awkward but it works.

[Majic]

Different manufactors did nice jobs in hiding the switches. I have an old Elsie Ideal Grade with a SST and the switch is on the right side of the trigger. You have to turn the gun over to see it, but it can be readily felt with your triger finger. It was somewhat of a surprise for me to find it there, but it really is very easy to use.

[MicroBalrog]

Gun Control: A liberal’s perspective.

Let me preface this short piece by stating that I am by no means a republican. In fact, even seeing the faces of George Bush and his entourage makes me
almost physically sick. I’m no libertarian either – my support for public education, income taxes, welfare and Medicaid has turned me into a black sheep among die-hard Emerson Ngu wannabes. I personally identify myself as liberal – or, as the die-hard Hillarites designate this particular model of liberal, a left-libertarian. (Whatever… ).
I raise the ire of my fellow liberals by many things (I might be the universal champion in the art of annoying people), but mainly by my total and blanket opposition to almost any forms of gun control. I would be totally fine in a land where any sane adult could walk into a gun store and purchase a machinegun, a pair of grenades, pay for them with his credit card (or cash) and walk out and carry them around town. There’s a lot you should learn about gun control, but here’s two facts you should know:

1)In 2003, the Center for Disease Control published a study in which they said that none of the previously published studies has been able to prove that gun control causes a reduction in gun crime or gun accidents. Other studies, published by researchers in Russia, the UK, Australia, Canada and the USA have pointed out the very same thing previously – namely that gun control did not decrease violent crime, and some even claimed that gun control increases it. Up to the date of this article (December 5th, 2003), no research upholding gun control has survived peer correction. That means that even if you disagree with those who claim gun control increases violent crime, there’s still no proof whatsoever it decreases it. Therefore, we must agree that, as far as current research goes, gun control has no proven benefit.

2) “On January 8, 2003 the BATF conducted a search at the residence of Mark S. Lancaster in Mt. Juliet, Tennessee (located just outside of Nashville). Lancaster was arrested after they found several machine guns that had been assembled from parts kits (mainly WWII era). That was all...nothing more. He had not been selling these machine guns, using them in a crime, and he had not been involved with drugs or terrorism. He simply had them in his home.“ Mark Lancaster was then indicted with “One count of possession of NFA firearms (machine guns), one count of knowingly engaging in a business as a manufacturer of NFA firearms, one count of possessing NFA firearms without paying the special occupational tax required for the business, and another possession of NFA firearms charge. The indictment states that he had 15 machine guns, but it was apparently also counting guns that didn’t work and/or weren’t even put together.” The “engaging in business” part is certainly the most idiotic, being that even according to the ATF he didn’t sell even one machinegun.
Lancaster was therefore simply collecting exotic weapons. That was his crime, for which he was facing charges that could bring about up to 40 years of imprisonment, huge fines, and, finally, a total loss of all gun rights. Mark Lancaster, a gun collector, will never be able to own a .22 rife – till the end of his life, even if he’s only sentenced to one day in prison – just the same as a violent criminal.
It is said that there were several violations of due process in the procurement of his search warrant. It doesn’t matter. Let us assume for a moment that Mark Lancaster is guilty as charged. Maybe what Wylie says is untrue about them machineguns. Maybe he did in fact have 15 new-in-the-box M2 heavy machineguns in his basement, ready to roll. Even then, however, the fact stays that he was accused of no violent crime or intent to commit one.
Now, here’s the question: It is known to us that there’s no proven benefit to gun control. None. Zilch. Nada. What, then, is the moral justification for doing that? Why put a man in prison for fourty years? And what is the moral justification for doing that to hundreds of other Mark Lancasters every year?
Remember, a ban is always violence. Every law banning something has a cop or ATF agent enforcing it. A person who supports a ban, supports its enforcement - otherwise, what’s the point? So if you support gun control, you support Mark Lancaster being put away, the ATF going on kitten-stomping sprees, and all them other “excesses”. And for some people, the excesses get very violent. Remember that minor incident in 1993 when over 70 people got burned alive? The search warrant on the Branch Davidians was on charges of letting a non-US citizen have access to a firearm. Was it worth it to lead an all-out assault on Waco, guns blazing? And I don’t care how crazy Koresh was. Crazy people have a right to life, too, you know.
And you support banning people from having machineguns. You support giving ATF more and more power to do those things. You support the imprisonment of Mark Lancaster. You support Waco. Now would you please tell me why you’re supporting those things?

[Lord Grey Boots]

SxS = Side By Side, as in Side by Side Shotgun (ie, its not a brand or specific model name).


Info on the selection and installation of gunsafes is always good info to have.

The tacked thread on "buying a used revolver" in the revolver forum would be a good addition.

[Alexey931]

Pax:

This thread won't do it's job because of two unfortunate curcumstances: 1. The thread is sinking 2. It's swamped with offtopic

I'd like to suggest: 1. to make it float 2. to issue a special warning to keep on topic. After all, it's a special thread.

MicroBalrog:

Your latest post here is very nice, I agree 100 per cent, but where does it relate to topic even to the remotest degree :) ?

[Chuck Dye]

I would appreciate one or more book lists.

My current need is for recommended reading on CCW, both the practical side, and the legal side. I can see the utility of a book list for almost all of the sub forums.

[Alexey931]

Conditions of a gun. Ready to fire, cocked and locked, halfcocked, etc. Would anybody care to submit a full list of these conditions conforming to the most universally accepted presentation and wording? How do the differences in design of particular handguns get adapted to (some guns get decocked when locked, some are revolvers :) )

BTW, different States have very different legal definitions of what constitutes a loaded gun. To my somewhat outdated knowledge, Nevada and Colorado lay down that a gun is loaded whenever a round is in the chamber. How is it supposed to be applied to revolvers?

Best regards

[Alexey931]

THC: tetrahydrocannabinol; marijuana working agent
HDC: ?
SMG: ?
LMG: ?
HMG: ?
CHL: ?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

Alexey ...... THC: tetrahydrocannabinol; marijuana working agent
HDC: ? [/b]- still ??!
SMG: ? - I forget the meaning of ''s'' - I think it is ''sub'' - but this is usually a hand held machine gun/pistol .. eg Sten, HK etc
LMG: ? - Light Machine gun ..... probably something like MG42 ... rifle caliber but very likely with bipod and used from support.
HMG: ? - Heavy machine Gun .. 50 cal would be ideal example .. usually used from a mount.
CHL: ? - Concealed Handgun Licence ..... also CCW .... [b]

[Alexey931]

HDC: ? [/b]- still ??!

Is it a blatantly dumb question? I checked the Acronyms, found nothing

Best regards

[tyme]

I'm not sure, but I'm going to guess "Home Defense Carbine".

About what qualifies as "loaded", the wise thing to do, if you're really considering trying to skirt the law, is to consult a lawyer. Chances are, there's case law on the subject and only a lawyer who deals with firearms law is going to be able to provide you with accurate information. I would guess that "round in the chamber" means one pull of the trigger will fire the gun. I don't like the idea of putting legal advice in the Library, even if the advice is prefixed with "TINLA".

[BluesBear]

When referring to scopes and other optical equipment, HDC = High Definition Coating.

[telewinz]

My "BABY"
Commado Arms Mark 45, Nickel Plated, 30 round magazine.

Just got mailed a copy of the owners manual from a buddy at another web site. Volunteer Enterprises, Inc. offered a 1 year warranty, just like Kahr does now plus a 90 round magazine

Disassembly: (for the few I asked but didn't know how)

1. Remove the 2 buttstock screws, remove buttstock
2. A large slotted screw is revealed underneath lower receiver, remove it.
3. Upper and lower receiver detach, NO flying parts or springs
4. Loosen Allen head screw located on rear sight guard...caution rear plug is under recoil spring tension, once screw is removed hold/ease out plug and recoil spring.
5. Slide bolt rearward and align cocking knob with cutout in upper receiver and remove.
6. Bolt can now be slid out the rear of the receiver.

No further disassembly is recomended or required. All parts can be easily cleaned/oiled. All metal parts are steel (magnet test). Design and quality of parts are on a par with a Marlin Camp 9 or 45 carbine. Takes about as long to disassemble as it does to read this. Seems to have shallow micro-groove rifling but in this case the relatively slow 45 ACP shot just fine with lead reloads and NO leading of the barrel! No hammer, firing pin operates by striker. Fires from a closed bolt and has 16.5 inch barrel.

[Alexey931]

No hammer, firing pin operates by striker.

What precisely is the firing pin and what is the striker. The quotation is more or less suggestive, of course, but the formal definitions would be very welcome.

Best regards

[BluesBear]

The simple definition is that a striker is a spring loaded firing pin.

Instead of a hammer hitting the firing pin, the striker is held back under spring pressure and when released by pulling the trigger, hits the primer and fires the cartridge.

[BluesBear]

Could we PLEASE in the definations section explain the difference between the nouns OUGHT and 'AUGHT

There is NO SUCH THING as Double-Ought buckshot !

'aught as used in buckshot sized is derived frim the woird NAUGHT

Main Entry: naught
Pronunciation: 'not
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 : NOTHINGNESS, NONEXISTENCE
2 : the arithmetical symbol 0 : ZERO, CIPHER

Main Entry: aught
Pronunciation: 'ot
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration (resulting from false division of a naught) of naught
Date: 1872
1 : ZERO, CIPHER
2 archaic : NONENTITY, NOTHING

Main Entry: ought
Pronunciation: 'ot
Function: noun
Date: 1678
: moral obligation : DUTY

[pax]

Final call: we need short, succinct definitions for common gun termsto put in the TFL glossary. If you have either a term that needs defining, or a definition for someone else's suggested term, please put it here.

I think we have enough contributions for the nitpicky grammar section now.

Keep 'em coming.

pax

[MagKnightX]

What is a press check?

[El Tejon]

Blues, people here ought to know the difference!:D

Mag, press check: a procedure or technique done to a small arm to ensure the ready status (i.e. loaded or unloaded) of the weapon, usually involves retracting the bolt or slide of the weapon and determining status by visual (if possible) and tactile means. Maybe be used as noun or verb.

Pet peeve: stop using Class 3 when you mean Title II. It's driving me nuts, you guys.:uhoh:

[El Tejon]

Someone wanted the five conditions. Here ya go:

Condition 4: Weapon unloaded, loaded mag out of weapon.

Condition 3: chamber empty, magazine loaded in weapon.

Condition 2. chamber loaded, magazine loaded in weapon, hammer down.

Condition 1: chamber loaded, magazine loaded in weapon, hammer cocked, safety engaged.

Condition 0: chamber loaded, magazine loaded in weapon, hammer cocked, safety disengaged.

Condition Tejon: mild state of pique, feeling of need to exercise, telephone loaded and engaged.

[BluesBear]

For the DA auto pistols i.e. Walther & S&W

How about a Condition 1½: chamber loaded, magazine loaded in weapon, hammer down, safety on.

[MagKnightX]

What about BA/UU/R? Whazzat? (sorry, BluesBear)

[Chuck Dye]

MAGGIE’S DRAWERS - Not exactly a gun term, but shooting related, Maggie’s Drawers is the nickname of the red flag held aloft by target pit spotters in formal long range matches. Maggie’s Drawers signal a compete miss, a shot that did not even make the paper. Also a suitable term for other "shots" (see your dictionary’s definition of sniper) that completely miss the mark, as in discussions of many of the topics appearing on The High Road. I would welcome a Maggie’s Drawers icon for the thread header, perhaps replacing the Thumb(s) Down icon.

[Balog]

I'd love to see a good definition of more advanced terms like "meplat", "ogive", and "leade."
Maybe a buyers guide to different bottomfeeders (1911, Glock) similar to the one we have for revolvers? Maybe even one for various types of long guns?
An explanation of the difference between "cast" and "forged" receivers.

[Alexey931]

sear: a pivoted piece that holds the hammer at full cock or half cock in the firing mechanism of small arms.

Questions:

breechblock: ? (formal definition)

A question: what is the firing (pin?) something placed rigidly on a slide/breechblock, as is usual with submachine guns?

[Billmanweh]

could someone help me out with the pronunciation of "Unertl"?

[Majic]

U...NER...TOL!!!

[Alexey931]

bloop tube (sight extension tube): a front sight support in the form of a coaxial barrel attachment extending beyond the muzzle face.

[Alexey931]

exacto knife: ?

[BluesBear]

Do you mean X-Acto Knife?

If so, it's an interchangable blade hobby knife.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=714648
X-Acto with #11 blade

[Starpower]

So, with that coaxial barrel attachment, can you get CNN with that?

[Alexey931]

Do you mean X-Acto Knife?

Quite possible, I don't know for sure.

Best regards

[Alexey931]

Starpower:

So, with that coaxial barrel attachment, can you get CNN with that?

What is CNN?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Cable News Network

[Alexey931]

Cable News Network

What does it have to do with the bloop (sight extension) tubes?

Best regards

[tyme]

It was a joke. :)
Coaxial cable is what you get cable TV with, usually.

[Starpower]

Sorry, Alexy. In my zeal to be a smart @$$ I sometimes mis-assume the make up of my audience. I guess I just assumed after Baghdad that everybody knew who CNN was, and I never gave a thought that people might not know what a coaxial cable was, outside the US. Just shows how self absorbed we can become sometimes. No offense intended.

[Alexey931]

amberjack: ? (I suspect this is no gun term at all, but am still curious)

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Only Amberjack I know of is either a fish or type of beer.

[Alexey931]

falling block: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Single shot rifles such as the Ruger #1, (shown below top) Winchester High Wall, Winchester Low Wall (shown below bottom) and Sharps are falling block action rifles.

http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/images/Products/22L.gif
http://www.winchester-guns.com/prodinfo/catalog/images/534095m.jpg

When the lever is opened (pushed down) a breech block drops down (falls) to expose the chamber for loading.

[Starpower]

OK, ? These two rifles are fine examples of falling block rifles. Just what, exactly, does that mean.? How are they different from others, is the "falling block" in the lever action, in the firing pin, or what? Please elucidate. Or is it the black tape around the stock of the top rifle, to keep the block from "falling" off?

[P95Carry]

Let's call the ''block'' the ''bolt assembly'' ..... contained within which, per any bolt .. will be the firing pin.

The old target .22 BSA I used to use was same principle. The top of the ''block'' generally is contoured with a smooth groove and when the lever is depressed, the ''block'' falls to a low position . exposing as Bear said .. the chamber. The fresh round is fed along the top of the ''block'' following the groove ... lining up the round nicely for chambering.

When the lever is returned to its closed (up) position once more .. the ''block'' raises and closes off the chamber .... retaining the round ready for firing.

After firing .... the lever is depressed ..... the ''block'' falls and an ejector mechanism (usually a delayed action spring activated deal) .. gives the case a tug to extract it.

There must somewhere be a pic of this to assist in visualization .. if I find one I'll post it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edit to add .. here is a top view of a Martini Henry action ... the block is fully down ready to load a round into the chamber. If you could see it .... the lever would be fully depressed.


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot2/mart_henry_action.jpg


A diagram would help ... but cannot find one yet.

[Majic]

If you have ever watched war movies and observed artillery being loaded and fired you will see a swinging breech block. The rear of the artillery piece (the breech block) is swung to the side and the cartridge is inserted. The piece is swung back in place, locked, and the weapon is fired.
The falling block of the rifle is the same concept, but instead of swinging to the side it slides down vertically. It is a falling breech block. A lever operates it. As you pull the lever down it pulls the falling block down in a recess in the action. This opens the chamber for cartridge insertion. Raising the lever will also raise the falling block into place sealing the breech of the chamber to allow firing. As stated earlier, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[BluesBear]

This might help.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=727805

#4 is the breech block. It drops straight down in a slot in the receiver to expose the chamber and then moves back up to seal the breech and fire.


Starpower, that "black tape" is the blued steel receiver.


If y'all have ever seen the movie "Quigley Down Under" he is using a Sharps falling block rifle.
The movie "Zulu" has several good scenes showing Martini-Henry rifles in use.

[Alexey931]

Let's call the ''block'' the ''bolt assembly'' ..... contained within which, per any bolt .. will be the firing pin.

The above suggests a question I've been considering for quite some time, but couldn't decide how to put it better. There appears to be no generic term describing any locking device of a breech loading weapon (in English). "Bolt assembly" certainly needs quotes and some introduction, as bolt is always something that moves along the barrel axis.

#4 is the breech block. It drops straight down in a slot in the receiver to expose the chamber and then moves back up to seal the breech and fire.

So breech block is short for block. So far we discussed just falling block. Can anyone point out some other kind of block (other than falling)?

A couple of other questions in the same line:

What do you call the "bolt assembly" of H&K roller delayed action?

What do you call that big thing in the AK which operates the bolt proper and features loading handle and gas piston?

Best regards

PS I've been toying with the idea of breech block being the generic term ("bolt assembly") in question, but frankly, I doubt is some :)

[BluesBear]

Do you mean the bolt carrier?

[Majic]

Turn bolts have lugs (or ears so to speak) that bears against the receiver as it turns into place for locking. They are known as "locking lugs".

There was the Trap door breech block of the past. It was an ingenious modification of a muzzle loader to allow it to shoot metalic cartridges. The block was hinged at the front and it flipped up to expose the chamber for loading and unloading. These were carried by the US calvary during the Indian Wars.

[Alexey931]

Do you mean the bolt carrier?

You mean the AK part? Looks like that.

[Alexey931]

What is the pistol part that prevents firing out of battery?

Best regards

[Majic]

What is the pistol part that prevents firing out of battery?
The Disconnector, it disengages the sear from the trigger when the slide is out-of-battery.

[Alexey931]

What is the link that transfers pull from the trigger to the sear? All the pistols have it, found also in other weapons, especially in bullpups.

Best regards

[Majic]

What is the link that transfers pull from the trigger to the sear?

In most pistols it's called the Trigger Bar, but in the 1911 format it's called the Trigger Bow.

[geekWithA.45]

Slickening...the process of making easy that which ought to be done.

Every couple of days on THR, I hear some call or another to "write the congress critter", and we all scurry off (or not) to use whatever mechanism we have handy for such things.

LET'S SLICKEN THAT, Yes?

If you paste this somewhere, you get a red, white and blue "enter your zip and contact congress thingy" from Capwiz.

Seems like it oughta go somewhere handy and convenient from L&P.


<script language="javascript" src="http://ffs.capwiz.com/DHTML/CAjsform.js"></script><form method="get" action="http://capwiz.com/stickers/" onsubmit="return verify(this);"><input type="hidden" name="dir" value="congressorg" /><input type="hidden" name="lvl" value="C" /><table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#000000"><tr><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><tr><td align="center" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC3333" valign="top"><img src="http://images.capwiz.com/img/stickers/box2_top.gif" width="100" height="33" /></td></tr><tr><td valign="top"><input name="azip" size="5" value="" /></td><td valign="bottom"><input type="image" src="http://images.capwiz.com/img/stickers/box2_go.gif" name="Go" border="0" width="39" height="23" alt="" /></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" colspan="2" bgcolor="#333399"><img src="http://images.capwiz.com/img/stickers/box2_bottom.gif" width="100" height="22" /></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></form>

[Alexey931]

stovepipe: a condition where a case being ejected is jammed between the breech face and the slide, instead of getting clear of the weapon. Being almost always caught at 90 degrees angle to the barrel axis, it looks like a stovepipe.

Best regards

[Legionnaire]

pax, unless I missed it, I didn't find a link to dz's thread, "The Wisdom of Gale McMillan" from TheFiringLine. That ought to be somewhere in the library, in my opinion.

http://www.TheFiringLine.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60102&referrerid=0

[Alexey931]

WSD: White Self Destruction

[Alexey931]

ACOG: Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight.

[Alexey931]

An excellent link:

http://www.aeroballisticsonline.com

Best regards

[Alexey931]

What are parts of a box magazine?

[Majic]

The body, spring, follower, and base plate.

[Alexey931]

Are there special terms dealing with the rifle scope picture and its imperfections due to incorrect sight alignment?

Best regards

[Majic]

Are you talking about parallax?

[Alexey931]

No. Parallax is the difference between the barrel axis and the scope axis (sight radius). I mean the visual effects occurring when the eye is not in its proper place right on the scope axis.

Best regards

[Fred Thompson]

Over-unders come in 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges. Perhaps also in .410 bore and 10-gauge, though I have no personal experience with the latter two.

cdbeaver, you forgot the ever-popular 5.56 - 40mm over/under combo..:D

[Alexey931]

What are the little curvy things that keep the upper round in place?

Best regards

[Alexey931]

plunger tube: ?
screamer: ?
+p pressure: ?

[BluesBear]

What are the little curvy things that keep the upper round in place? Feed lips.

[Alexey931]

LDA: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Light Double Action

A term coined by ParaOrdinance of Canada for their Double Action only 1911 clones.

[Alexey931]

DPS: ?
BHP: ?

Best regards

PS Nobody has anything to say about the scope sight pictures (see above)?

[BluesBear]

Department of Public Safety

Browning High Power aka P-35



Scope question is aberration.


+P is a higher than standard pressure as defined by SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute)
Only .38 Special, 9x19mm and .45acp have actual +P definations. Sometimes the .38 Super is designated as a +P round but it is only actually +P when compared to the dimensionally identical .38 ACP.

The Plunger Tube is located just above the left grip on a 1911 pattern pistol. It containes a spring with a plunger on each end. The forward end bears against the slide stop and the rear end bears against the thumb safety. It engages a detent in each to hold them in position.

Screamer is either a pyrotechnic shell which eminates a loud shrieking sound when fired and is designed for animal control or a very high velocity projectile.

[Alexey931]

Scope question is aberration

Looks like that. Perhaps I mean something close, but different. Let's assume that you are teaching somebody to take aim with the scope. What's the wording you'll be using? "Keep your head so that all of the picture is clear. As soon as you see ... it means that you are in error. Keep your sight picture clear." I'm actually talking about word(s) describing ... .

Best regards

[jojosdad]

Here is a good way (IMHO) to contact your congresscritters:
http://congress.org/congressorg/home/
Accesses all of them in one place.

[BluesBear]

What I would say is to avoid seeing any distortion around the edges.

Are you referring to vignettes or vignetting?

[Alexey931]

Are you referring to vignettes or vignetting?

Most probably. At least the effects (crescent shaped shadows) fit very closely the photographic definition.

2. an engraving, drawing, photograph, or the like that is shaded off gradually at the edges so as to leave no definite line at the border. (Random House Dictionary)

Best regards

[Alexey931]

IWB: Inside the WaistBand
OWB: Outside of the WaistBand

Both terms belong to holsters

Best regards

[Alexey931]

birdcage: ?

Best regards

[HunterGatherer]

To add to "sight vs. site"

I would add cite.

[BluesBear]

Birdcage is a type of flash hider such as is used on the M16A2

[Alexey931]

What is the forward part of a modern pistol trigger guard fashioned to be a support for the index finger?

Best regards

[jsalcedo]

SOB

Small of back

MOB

Middle of back


For sell

It is FOR SALE

[Alexey931]

SMLE: ?

Best regards

[Majic]

SMLE
S= Short
M= Magazine
L= Lee
E= Enfield

The former British battle rifle.

[Alexey931]

NRM: ?

Best regards

[Alexey931]

CPR: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

CPR = cardiopulmonary resuscitation

NRM = New Roll Mark. On the original Colt 1991 Series 80 pistols M1991A1 was spelled out in HUGE letters on the left side of the slide. The Mark IV Series 80 pistols were done similarly. Recently Colt started using a more traditional looking roll mark that is much more visually appealing.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=687629

[Alexey931]

(mechanical) lock time: ?
dwell time: ?
total lock time: ?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

Alexey .... let me take a stab at this ..... not definitive perhaps but let's see .....

These terms really originate from back in the M/L days .. flintlocks and match locks .. let's look at these first .......

The mechanical lock time is essentially the time taken from moment of sear release to hammer falling to end of travel.

Dwell time then would have been the time taken for the flint sparks or match to ignite pan contents and that subsequent burn to travel down the primer hole to fire the main charge.

Total ''lock time'' thus would be the sum of both parts. Quite significant with those weapons!!

Now in modern weapons .. we can really all but rule out ''dwell'' time ..... unless there was an old cartridge presenting a ''hang-fire''.

So really, now - lock time is simply the time taken from sear disengagement ... to primer ignition ..... pretty fast. Some maintain that striker firing pins are a tad quicker than hammer driven pins ... but we are talking milliseconds now!!

HTH ... just my 2c.

[Alexey931]

Tennifer finish: ?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

This is Glock's special finish ..... Tennifer finish is actually not a finish at all, but a metallurgical process performed on the metal parts of the Glock pistols and knives. The metal is treated with a cyanide mixture bath to increase hardness and corrosion resistance. This is not a finish but is actually impregnated into the first few microns of the metal. The Tennifer treatment is colorless.

Glock simply powder coats the slides black after the Tennifer process is complete. You can take a piece of sandpaper to your slide and remove all of the powder coat, leaving your slide a dull stainless color (which looks pretty cool) and the Tennifer properties will be left intact.

[Alexey931]

PRK: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Peoples Republik of Kalifornia

[Alexey931]

BluesBear:
Peoples Republik of Kalifornia
Do you care to make some remarks on the spelling (Republik and Kalifornia)?

Grateful in advance

[P95Carry]

Alexey ... Bear may well correct me here but ... the ''k'' is used to emphasize the ''control'' nature ... restrictions ... a sorta reference to things Communistic etc. Some people wishing to emphasize the way freedoms are being lost in U.S. cynically refer to ''Amerika''.!!

[BluesBear]

Chris, once again you are correct sir. :D

That spelling is used satirically.



Alexey for the HTML codes to work you need to put the / before the B in the second position.

[jthuang]

Dunno if this will help, but here are my articles on (1) how to buy a handgun for protection; and (2) home defense shotguns. I think Oleg used to have a link to #2 on his website but it's not there any more.

1. http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/buy.html

2. http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/shotgun.html

[Alexey931]

SAS: ?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

SAS ........ UK ..... ''Special Air Service'' ... elite counter-terrorist and spec' ops unit of Brit Military. One step beyond ''para's'' many reckon. Comparable to U.S. Navy Seals.

[Chuck Dye]

Last I heard, it is the Special Boat Service, SBS, that is the SEAL equivalent. As is often true of the best, they do not get or seek publicity.

[P95Carry]

Actually Huck ....yeah .... I think you are right there.

[marklbucla]

I didn't see it in the glossary yet, so how about the terms relating to triggers?

Overtravel, creep, slack, etc...

[P95Carry]

Overtravel, creep, slack, etc... probably several ways to describe these but .. let's try ...

1] Slack ..... the amount of movement to take up before trigger begins to actuate the mechanism. Sometimes intentional as in Enfield's ''first pressure''. In a handgun tho, undesirable if to excess. In a rifle, acceptable IMO if predictable and consistent.

2] Creep ... A ''hesitant'' ''notchy'' or ''unsmooth'' feel as trigger pressure and travel is increased. The sear and trigger notch are moving one on the other with changes in feel ... such that the progression to the trigger ''breaking'' is inconsistent. Probably due in most cases to badly finished surfaces. Does not inspire confidence and good control.

3] Overtravel ..... once the trigger has ''broken'' and hammer released (or striker) ... this is the remaining travel experienced rearward. A small amount is normal and acceptable but to excess, this is undesirable. The reason for which trigger stops are sometimes built in to the trigger itself. That motion is wasted motion and is best adjusted out. I consider it of most importance with regard to double action.

4] Poundage ... The actual force required to operate a trigger. For single action, smoothness is preferable to just low poundage IMO. With double action ... same again .. the ease with which the pull can be managed matters more than just the force required. Within reason of course.

[sensop]

I just read through this thread quickly. 'Didn't see any explanation of "point blank". It's an often (almost always) misused term.

Another clarification in usage needed is the use of "caliber" (calibre) in place of "chambering". Calibre is an expression of the bore diameter or, probably more correctly, bullet diameter. A good definition of "chambering" is the collection of dimensions that define the cartridge and its corresponding chamber. BTW, they are never exactly the same: some "slop' is required between the chamber and the cartridge.

Real story:

Q: "What caliber is that rifle?"

A: "It's in .308 caliber."

Q: "No, I mean what does it shoot?"

A: "What do you mean 'What does it shoot?' Deer, hogs, whatever is in season."

Q: "No, I mean what kind of bullets does it shoot?"

A: "Let's see, right now, I'm shooting a handload and I've loaded some Hornady 150 grain Spitzers."

Q: "No, dammit, ... what the hell kind of cartridge is the damn thing chambered for?"

A: "Oh, that would be a .30-'06. Sheesh! Why didn't you ask that in the first place?"

Here's a variation on that theme ... also a true encounter:

Q: "What caliber is that rifle?"

A: "It's in .308."

Q: "I like the .30-'06 better myself."

A: "What do you mean?"

Q: "I mean I like the .30-'06 better than the .308."

A: "This rifle is in .30-'06."

Q: "But you said it was a .308."

A: "You asked me what the caliber was, not what the rifle was chambered to shoot. It's chambered for the Springfield .30-'06 cartridge, which shoots a .308 caliber bullet."

Q: "Oh. 'Kinda anal about our terminology, aren't we?"

A: "How would you know? It's obviously not OUR terminology."

:banghead:

Any one want to take a stab at "point blank"? As in point blank range?

[BluesBear]

Caliber

Main Entry: cal·i·ber
Variant(s): or cal·i·bre /'ka-l&-b&r, British also k&-'lE-/
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French calibre, from Old Italian calibro, from Arabic qAlib shoemaker's last

1 a : degree of mental capacity or moral quality b : degree of excellence or importance
2 a : the diameter of a bullet or other projectile b : the diameter of a bore of a gun usually expressed in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and typically written as a decimal fraction <.32 caliber>
3 : the diameter of a round body; especially : the internal diameter of a hollow cylinder

Point Blank

Main Entry: point-blank
Pronunciation: 'point-'bla[ng]k
Function: adjective

1 a : marked by no appreciable drop below initial horizontal line of flight b : so close to a target that a missile fired will travel in a straight line to the mark
2 : DIRECT, BLUNT <a point-blank refusal>
- point-blank adverb

[sensop]

I love Merriam-Webster Online and use it all the time.

Actually, I ran across a definition of point-blank range a few years back that makes all these only partial definitions. I am still looking for that source again, so as to not take credit for it. However, it goes something like this:

Point blank range is that maximum range at which a circle which defines the target area (meaning desired impact area) and projected back to the muzzle of the firearm (forming a "tube") forms the boundary of the volume from which the projectile will not exit in its travel from muzzle to target impact.

In other words, it's the max range at which the boreline may be placed in the center of the target impact area and hit the target, and the bullet not leave the boundary of the point blank "tube", from muzzle to target. It's not defined by just bullet drop from boreline. It allows for the bullet to rise above and below the boreline but not leave the "tube" boundary.

So, a 150 yd zero with a .30-30 rifle shooting a 170 gr bullet is not within point blank range unless the target area is something on the order of 8 or 9 inches in diameter (I'm estimating). That's because the rise and fall of the bullet have to stay in the boundary of that "tube" defined by the target area, projected back to and centered on, the muzzle. If the target area is only 3 inches in diameter, the point blank range is a lot shorter.

For very flat shooting cartridges and large target areas, the point blank range can be a fair distance. For slow heavy bullets (.45 ACP) and small target areas, it can be just a few yards. BUT, it is always beyond physical contact distance. That would be within the point blank range but not AT point blank range. Point blank range for a .45 ACP with factory loads and a target area defined as a man's upper body area could reasonably be estimated to be out as far as 30 yards.

Practically speaking, I have not reconciled for myself is how a scope would fit in this definition. So I always assume a sight line close to the bore.

For those of us that find all this tedious and boring, think about it the next time you hear a reference to point blank range on the news or in a movie.

[Alexey931]

Breechblock: a movable piece of metal for closing the breech in certain firearms. (Random House Dictionary)

Do anybody care to explain what exactly are those certain firearms?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

Alexey .. Breechblock ..... we had earlier in the thread something explaining ''falling block'' ... this actually I think helps on this one. The falling block can be called a ''breechblock'' .... so falling block underleaver guns would qualify. Going up in scale then we have stuff like big howitzers .. with a pivotted, swing-out ''breechblock'' ... put simply ... a substantial ''door'' that is closed and locked. 16" naval guns ... same idea .... the blocks are locked by interlocking segments, male (breechblock) and female (breech) ... rather like portions of screw thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sensop ... what you mention is indeed the ''alternative'' ... I have come across this before too. I remember on another board trying to explain to a guy what we meant by saying ''bullet is on the rise'' when talking about scopes, bore axes etc ..... and did this little diagram ..... the same could apply with this ''point blank'' deal .. the trajectory line as you say remaining in the imaginary ''tube''. The bullet passes twice thru the imaginary sight line.


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot2/trajectory!.gif

[MagKnightX]

I know I already asked this in this thread, but I never got an answer:

What does BA/UU/R mean?

[El Tejon]

Buy Ammo/Use Up/Repeat [and then Rinse]

[Alexey931]

Alexey .. Breechblock ..... we had earlier in the thread something explaining ''falling block'' ... this actually I think helps on this one. The falling block can be called a ''breechblock'' .... so falling block underleaver guns would qualify. Going up in scale then we have stuff like big howitzers .. with a pivotted, swing-out ''breechblock'' ... put simply ... a substantial ''door'' that is closed and locked. 16" naval guns ... same idea .... the blocks are locked by interlocking segments, male (breechblock) and female (breech) ... rather like portions of screw thread.


It's all right with me. I'm just trying to figure out what can possibly be a 'breechblock' and what can not. For instance, in an English glossary of one German book the H&K roller delayed locking assembly is called breechblock. So falling block, big cannons, an odd (H&K) design, what else and why not everything else except, probably, the bolt and slide? :)

Best regards

[BluesBear]

Well technically, bolts and slides are breechblocks. They're just not usually referenced as that.

The breechface contains the hole for the firing pin. So you could say that the breechface is on the breechblock.

[Alexey931]

The breechface contains the hole for the firing pin. So you could say that the breechface is on the breechblock.

I've always been thinking that breech face is the rear end of the barrel, as opposite to the muzzle face. Is it also possible?

Best regards

[P95Carry]

Alexey . I thgink, as ever, with terminology - there has to be some ''elasticity''!! For the most part ... ''we'' know what ''they'' mean .... tho things can be cvouched in slightly different terms sometimes!

Not really sure sometimes what is actually ''definitive'' with descriptions sometimes!!

For me ''breechface'' is pretty much the chamber end of the barrel .. for Bear .... the breechblock. It matters not really ... cos in the end .. most stuff is understandable thru context anyways.

I think sometimes we need to look at the earliest firearms .. and how the various parts were described .. but as we get more modern these terms get transcribed to the ''new'' mechanisms and designs .. not always perhaps quite faithfully.

''Once more, unto the breech, dear friends .............'' :p

[BluesBear]

I was taught that the breechface was equal to the boltface, except on a gun without a bolt. Such as a Remington Rolling Block or a Browning designed Winchester Falling Block.

But, since the breech is, in essence, the chamber, I guess you could also call the edge of the chamber opening, the breech face.

[Alexey931]

Ammunition comes in boxes. Boxes come in a number of different things. I'd like to enumerate all the accessories which have something to do with packageing of ammo. For instance, some odd questions on the subject:

What is a gridlike thing with cells where rounds are seated inside a box?

What is a metal can containing a number of ammo boxes which has to be opened with a can opener?

What is a battlepack?


Best regards

[Alexey931]

NRR: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

It was recently said in another thread;
Some tissue can be easily damaged by the hydrostatic shock wave as the bullet passes through. Would someone PLEASE define for me Hydrostatic Shock?

Hydrostatic refers to a fluid at REST not in motion. Hydrostatic pressure is a factor in the design of submersible watercraft. It's also very important to divers.

Are they referring to something along the lines of a hydrokinetic pressure?

Hydrokinetic refers to fluids in motion.
Hydrokinetic pressure (which I suppose could be referred to as Hydrokinetic Shock) could cause tissue damage due to fluids displaced by a bullet in motion.

Of course someone somewhere might actually have a fact based definition of Hydrostatic Shock. If so I'd love to be educated.

[P95Carry]

Bear .. I think it has become such a long used misnomer it is all but accepted. To me Hydrostatics are dealing with stuff like ..... at 33 feet depth in water the head of pressure is 1 atmos ... all that kinda stuff.

I think myself the only viable term is Hydraulic ..... the effects on fluids due to input of kinetic energy .. work put in .... fluid transfers said energy. Fluids are as we know treated as incompressible and thus .. when energy is put into the system ... those fluids will transmit the energy beyond the source.. disturbing all areas in vicinity.

In the body .. this shows up as a fluid shock wave .. the energy being absorbed thru disruption of the area surrounding. This is why IMO cavitation occurs .. and the elastic limit of many structures is or can be easily exceeded and so from max cavitation in say the first millisecond after impact ... there is then a degree of recovery, or not .. dependent on nature of projectile and it's velocity etc.

Just my own coupla cents.

[Doc]

P95Carry you hit the nail on the head!
it is actually hydralic pressure caused by (?) force
of the bullet impacting tissue moving very quickly,
which causes a "hydrostatic" shockwave in the tissue.
in correct terms: an hydralic shockwave in the tissue

[BluesBear]

Doc, if you took one sentence in your post, which causes a "hydrostatic" shockwave in the tissue. and changed it to
"which causes a "hydrokinetic" shockwave in the tissue."
I would agree 100% with your assessment.

[williamcrane]

How about definitions for box lock and side lock regarding shotguns?:confused:

[P95Carry]

Bill - I had a quick look on the web to see if there were any convenient available diagrams .... none so far.

Not sure quite re a ''definition'' per se ..... but in descriptive terms I might try the following....

Side Lock - the original lock type for rifles and shotguns ... instigated at the very beginning for flintlock and matchlock. The key items for a lock mechanism are a hammer (which will provide energy for whatever method of ignition) .... a spring to ''power'' that hammer ..... and a trigger (with its own spring), which of course holds the hammer under tension until release required.

The main spring for a side lock is generally a very large and long ''V'' spring and this resides under the characteristic side plate, which is let into the woodwork below the breech area. The hammer will have suitable notching (sear) included for enagement with the trigger group and will for side lock be almost certainly external.


Box Lock - In this case most usually, all the springs, hammers, firing pins, safety mechanisms and linkages to trigger, are contained in a ''box'' .. this is characterized by all being behind the breech area ... and the front wall on a cartridge gun is in fact the recoil shield. I am not certain but I think that the Box Lock can also allow for external hammers ... for example, when using a muzzle loader, such that they impinge on percussion primer nipples.


This is only a two centsworth!

[Majic]

Side locks also usually have a side plate which allows access to the action. The box lock is fully contained inside of the stock.
There are box locks with false side plates to resemble a side lock. They are just a design of the newer style lock impersonating the older classic style.

[BluesBear]

P-95, what you refer to as "on the rise" is known, in ballistic terms, as Maxium Ordinate which is defined as "the maxium rise of the bullet path over the line of sight at a given sight-in distance."

[P95Carry]

Thx Bear .... learning every day .. hope it never stops!:)

That diag was done using that term IIRC cos it was how the dude asked about it originally. Never bothered to check my terminology any deeper back then.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

How'sabout definitions of a sight picture, re: iron sights, proper vs. improper, preferably with graphic representations?

Define flash sight picture.

Explain different sight types, i.e. peep, buckhorn, Patridge, ghost ring, night sights, etc., once again with helpful graphics.

The "Motivations of those who would disarm us." (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64994) thread seems a likely candidate for reference.

A section on Liberal Media Bias.

A section on Liberal Education Bias in schools and universities.

Has anyone mentioned the Parable of the Sheep?

A section on No-knock warrants, and the erosion of accountability at the LE/citizen interface, specifically the immunity of policy setters vs. policy enforcers.

list/define the various sprts of Competitions and gun-games people play, with intent to offer up positive uses for guns beyond the most drastic. CAS, PPC, IPSC, Sillhouette, Skeetrap, reference favorite plinking/reactive targets also.

That's a good start. I may have other stuff later. :)

[P95Carry]

HRG ..... wow some good questions there! I'll dip out on the politico ones .. others can better field those than me but .. the ones re sights etc ..... I will put together some small diags later and post them ... in the hopes that they might assist.

Your mention re ''flash sight picture'' ...... I am making an assumption on that .... that you refer to the sight picture aquired in a small fraction of time ...... maybe a draw, ''flash'' and shoot. Is this what you mean.?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quick edit here to add ........ regarding sight types and sighting errors .. with open (iron) sights ..... there is a lot of overlap and I think this is probably best dealt with all together. I have done some small diagrams to hopefully help and think perhaps I'll post those in a separate thread, and add a link here once done.

Oh ... yeah .... Parable of the Sheep ... have a copy and will post .. tho it's been posted a few times but might be useful to archive it from here.

[P95Carry]

Not so long ago and in a pasture too uncomfortably close to here, a flock of
sheep lived and grazed. They were protected by a dog, who answered to the
master, but despite his best efforts from time to time a nearby pack of
wolves would prey upon the flock.

One day a group of sheep, bolder than the rest, met to discuss their
dilemma. 'Our dog is good, and vigilant, but he is one and the wolves are
many. The wolves he catches are not always killed, and the master judges and
releases many to prey again upon us, for no reason we can understand.
What can we do? We are sheep, but we do not wish to be food, too!'

One sheep spoke up, saying 'It is his teeth and claws that make the wolf so
terrible to us. It is his nature to prey, and he would find any way to do it,
but it is the tools he wields that make it possible. If we had such teeth, we
could fight back, and stop this savagery.' The other sheep clamored in
agreement, and they went together to the old bones of the dead wolves heaped
in the corner of the pasture, and gathered fang and claw and made them
into weapons.

That night, when the wolves came, the newly armed sheep sprang up with their
weapons and struck at them, crying, "Be Gone!" We are not food!' and drove
off the wolves, who were astonished. When did sheep become so bold and so
dangerous to wolves? When did sheep grow teeth?

It was unthinkable!

The next day, flush with victory and waving their weapons, they approached
the flock to pronounce their discovery. But as they drew nigh, the flock
huddled together and cried out, 'Baaaaaaaadddd! Baaaaaddd things!

You have bad things! We are afraid! You are not sheep!'

The brave sheep stopped, amazed. 'But we are your brethren!' they cried. 'We
are still sheep, but we do not wish to be food. See, our new teeth and claws
protect us and have saved us from slaughter. They do not make us into wolves,
they make us equal to the wolves, and safe from their viciousness!'

'Baaaaaaad!' cried the flock, 'the things are bad and will pervert you, and
we fear them. You cannot bring them into the flock!' So the armed sheep
resolved to conceal their weapons, for although they had no desire to panic
the flock, they wished to remain in the fold. But they would not return to
those nights of terror, waiting for the wolves to come.

In time, the wolves attacked less often and sought easier prey, for they had
no stomach for fighting sheep who possessed tooth and claw even as they did.
Not knowing which sheep had fangs and which did not, they came to leave sheep
out of their diet almost completely except for the occasional raid, from
which more than one wolf did not return.

Then came the day when, as the flock grazed beside the stream, one sheep's
weapon slipped from the folds of her fleece, and the flock cried out in
terror again, 'Baaaaaad! You still possess these evil things! We must ban you
from our presence!'

And so they did. The great chief sheep and his council, encouraged by the
words of their advisors, placed signs and totems at the edges of the pasture
forbidding the presence of hidden weapons there. The armed sheep protested
before the council, saying, 'It is our pasture, too, and we have never harmed
you! When can you say we have caused you hurt? It is the wolves, not we, who
prey upon you. We are still sheep, but we are not food!'

But the flock drowned them out with cries of 'Baaaaaaddd! We will not hear
your clever words! You and your things are evil and will harm us!'

Saddened by this rejection, the armed sheep moved off and spent their days
on the edges of the flock, trying from time to time to speak with their
brethren to convince them of the wisdom of having such teeth, but meeting
with little success. They found it hard to talk to those who, upon hearing
their words, would roll back their eyes and flee, crying 'Baaaaddd! Bad
things!'

That night, the wolves happened upon the sheep's totems and signs, and
said, 'Truly, these sheep are fools! They have told us they have no teeth!
Brothers, let us feed!' And they set upon the flock, and horrible was the
carnage in the midst of the fold. The dog fought like a demon, and often
seemed to be in two places at once, but even he could not halt the
slaughter.

It was only when the other sheep arrived with their weapons that the wolves
fled, only to remain on the edge of the pasture and wait for the next time
they could prey, for if the sheep were so foolish once, they would be so
again. This they did, and do still.

In the morning, the armed sheep spoke to the flock, and said, 'See? If the
wolves know you have no teeth, they will fall upon you. Why be prey? To be a
sheep does not mean to be food for wolves!' But the flock cried out, more
feebly for their voices were fewer, though with no less terror, 'Baaaaaaaad!
These things are bad! If they were banished, the wolves would not harm us!
Baaaaaaad!'

So they resolved to retain their weapons, but to conceal them from the
flock; to endure their fear and loathing, and even to protect their brethren
if the need arose, until the day the flock learned to understand that as long
as there were wolves in the night, sheep would need teeth to repel them.

They would still be sheep, but they would not be food!

[P95Carry]

I have put together some stuff on open sights ... made me think that perhaps it could help those newer to handguns in particular. It's a tad lengthy (normal for me!!) ....... but tried to keep it simple.

FIND IT HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=824325#post824325)

[sm]

IN reference to the thread in Shotguns: "Shotty a little TOO short! "
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=826257#post826257

Similar threads and questions as well...

Would anyone have the time and inclination to show the proper way to measure Barrels?

Not just shotguns, include handguns and rifles. Part of the "responsible ownership" in Rules Of Conduct got me to thinking, we have new folks that may not be aware of [yet] some legalites. Also some hunting regulations stipulate a minimum bbl for handgun hunting, be it semi or revolver.

Might be good to have as a visual reference to keep some folks out of trouble.

Not a bad idea to show fence sitters or those against us what the "HighRoad" means either. ;)

Chris...anyone?

Thanks
Steve

[P95Carry]

Steve .. yeah, basically agree ... thing is managing to show it well pictorially. I will give some though tho ... but unfortunately have no ''close to legal'' length guns ... they are all boringly legal!

Description does in part cover it I'd think .. in as much as, it is not too hard for someone to aquire a length of dowel rod .. and paint that with whatever reference length markings they might need.

The main thing that needs hammered home is ...

1] Unload weapon .... close bolt ...... check again for clear ... again close bolt .... repeat until 300% sure!

2] Holding gun vertically, drop aforementioned dowel rod down barrel until it is obvious it is sitting right on the bolt face .. do NOT stand over muzzle . only to one side, and still ensure muzzle points safe.

3] Then eye across muzzle's lowest point and interpret results.

I'll think on it re any pics .. in case they help.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

I an effort to define what we're about, and why it is we claim to have the Moral High Ground right in the name of our forum so as to dispel accusations of hypocrisy and hubris, I went and rooted up this thread. We could condense it, but there's some great stuff in this one, so maybe that's unneccessary.

Why do you come to TheHighRoad? (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40813)

How can we claim to ride The High Road? It's actually quite simple: we have very high self-imposed standards of behavior, with respect to ourselves as well as society in general. This involves a lot of highbrow, three-dollar words that helpd to define what I like to think of as nobility of spirit:

Honesty.

Integrity.

Civility.

Respect.

Accountability.

Responsibility.

These are a set of qualities, along with simple Good Manners, that members here embody in their thinking and worldview by conscious choice.

Knowing that you've chosen to lead your life by such standards gives one the confidence to stand squarely at the top and lead by example, in a position that can easily withstand the moral onslaughts of a complicated world without fear of failing to measure up. Getting more of society to think this way would better all of us, both as individuals and a society.

That's how I look at The High Road. I like to think a lot of my fellow HighRiders would agree. That's why I keep coming back.

It also helps me to look in the mirror. The strongest judge one can face is one's-self...


The Guy in the Glass

When you get what you want in your struggle for pelf*,
And the world makes you King for a day,
Then go to the mirror and look at yourself,
And see what that guy has to say.

For it isn't your Father, or Mother, or Wife,
Who judgement upon you must pass.
The feller whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the guy staring back from the glass.

He's the feller to please, never mind all the rest,
For he's with you clear up to the end,
And you've passed your most dangerous, difficult test
If the guy in the glass is your friend.

You may be like Jack Horner and "chisel" a plum,
And think you're a wonderful guy,
But the man in the glass says you're only a bum
If you can't look him straight in the eye.

You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years,
And get pats on the back as you pass,
But your final reward will be heartaches and tears
If you've cheated the guy in the glass.

by Dale Winbrow, (c) 1934
* 'pelf' is a derogatory or jocular word for money or wealth (Oxford Dictionary)

From the book "Swamp cabbage and angel wings".

[Alexey931]

K frame: ?

Best regards

[BluesBear]

For the explination and discussion of frame sizes see the following threads

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52857
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41362
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63307
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61271

[Alexey931]

Armadillo, Amorous: ?

Best regards

[Alexey931]

AFTE: Association of Firearms and Toolmarks Examiners

Best regards

[MagKnightX]

How about:

Accuracy: Consistency in results

Precision: Results very close to perfect

This means, if you always hit within 1/2" of a spot on the 7 ring, your rifle is accurate, but if you always hit within 1/2" of the bullseye, your rifle is precise AND accurate.

[Alexey931]

SHOT: Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor Trade

Best regards

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Maybe this is a little off course, but with the
suggestion of Mal H; I would like to know if
it would be possible to create a separate
section to discuss firearms material such
as books, magazines, and other types of
printed material? During this time, seems
like it would be contributing to the library.

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Doc]

MaxKnight:
you said

Accuracy: Consistency in results

Precision: Results very close to perfect


i respectfully differ

Accuracy is putting it where you want
Precision is putting it there again :D

tho technically accuracy is defined as
"degree of conformity of a measure to a standard or a true value"
(that is, the balance is true and one pound is one pound)

and precision as
"the degree of refinement with which an operation is performed
or the degree to which a measurement is repeated or repeatable"
(that is, the balance measures one pound is one pound time after time)


also, FWIW,

poor is the technician who blames his equipment

beware he who needs a specific tool to do a general job

[Stickjockey]

This may have been posted already, but could we get a definition of "Minute of Angle" put up some where? I keep seeing people post that they have a gun that will shoot "X minutes of angle at 100 yards. Am I not correct in saying that X minutes of angle will be X minutes of angle whether it's at 100 yards or 300 yards or even 1000 yards?

[Doc]

here you go
(with thanks to the previous poster at THR)

[P95Carry]

The graph is most useful reference ......

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=871081


But here is some text that can accompany it ... The minute of arc is a measurement of angle or arc, equal to one sixtieth (1/60) of one degree. Since one degree is defined as one three hundred and sixtieth (1/360) of a circle, 1 MOA is 1/21600 of the amount of arc in a closed circle, or 10800*pi radians. Its usage is limited to those fields which require a handy unit for the expression of very small amounts of arc.

This unit is commonly found in the firearms industry and literature, particularly that concerning high-powered rifles. It is popular because 1 MOA almost exactly subtends one inch at 100 yards, a traditional distance on target ranges. A shooter can easily readjust his or her rifle scope simply by measuring the distance in inches the bullet hole is from the desired impact point, and adjusting the scope that many MOA in the opposite direction. Most target scopes designed for long distances are adjustable in quarter (1/4) or eighth (1/8) MOA 'clicks.' One eighth MOA is equal to approximately an eighth of an inch at 100 yards or one inch at 800 yards.

Sometimes, a firearm will be 'measured' in MOA. This simply means that under ideal conditions, the gun is capable of repeatedly producing a group of shots that fit into a circle, the diameter of which can be subtended by that amount of arc. (E.g.: a "1 MOA rifle" should be capable, under ideal conditions and when locked into a vise, of shooting a 1-inch group at 100 yards.) However, ideal performance in a ballistics lab is often very different from real-world results.

[tyme]

stickjockey, the angle between the bore axis and the initial path of the bullet would result in 1MOA @100m being the same as 1MOA@1000m.

But there are all sorts of other considerations: drag, slowing rotation = less stabilization, and the obvious one... greater angular distance between the direction of the bullet's axis and its direction of travel. The bullet eventually points substantally higher than its direction of movement due to rotation/gyroscopic stabilization.

The slower the bullet's moving, the more off-axis it travels, and the slower it spins, the more moving through the same amount of air can mess up the trajectory.

[Doc]

P95:

was that your graphic?

if so thx

doc

[Stickjockey]

So it is possible for a rifle to group 3MOA at one hundred yards and, say, 3.5MOA at 200? Hmmm...

[P95Carry]

was that your graphic? Doc ... no in fact it wasn't .. but ''thx for the thx''!!:)

All I did was use the pic link in ''img'' tags to make it display directly in the thread .. more useful that way methinks.

[Kodiak AK]

Is Pax short for Paxton Quigly?

[pax]

Heavens no. :D

'pax' is the Latin word for peace, and I chose it because I needed a constant reminder to be more of a peacemaker than I am by nature. Also, it was kind of a play on words: pax packs.

pax

With a knowledge of the name comes a distincter recognition and knowledge of the thing. -- Henry David Thoreau

[Kodiak AK]

OK . I had wanted too ask for about two months now. I just couldn't figure out how to ask . If it is was in General , it might not be bun related , if It was PM it might be perceived as great another perv. So this thread is the best way I could figure .:cool:

[P95Carry]

If it is was in General , it might not be bun related Definitely wouldn't and isn't! :D Tho I do hear pax is pretty slick at the choc-chip cookies!! :neener:

Sorry Kodiak (& pax) ... had to pick up on that one. :)

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

And no-one seems to want to take on ugly political/media realities, I shall link to it.

My review of Bernard Goldberg's book Bias (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85644), a scathing indictment of Liberal Media Bias in the network news, written by a reporter who worked at CBS News for 28 years. Goldberg's no conservative by his own admission, but he was unimpressed when the industry refused to address his concerns about a left-slanted tilt to news delivery that he brought to network execs over the course of years. He details the whats, whys, and wherefores of this insidious trend, prompted by virulent, unpleasant responses to an editorial he wrote in the Wall Street Journal in 1996. His colleagues in the industry called him a traitor for writing that op-ed piece, which is a pretty good endorsment.


On another media-related note, this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67578) reproduces an EXCELLENT article on the methods that the anti-gunners use to manipulte the terms of discussion on the gun-control debate, and details not only how to defend against emotionally-loaded-soundbite propaganda techniques, but how to use these techniques to fight back against he gun-grabbers on their own turf. Written by our own member bfieldburt (http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=9561), "Why Are You Losing Your Freedoms? The Semantics of Manipulation." first appeared in JPFO's Bill Of Rights Sentinel magazine, it's posted here with permission to reproduce it. Additionally, the thread has many links to other articles on wordplay and semantic juggling. This is a MUST READ for anyone in a position to debate the forces of the gun-grabbers.

[P95Carry]

Most useful thread addition H_R_G ...... thx.:)

[Alexey931]

What is a staggered magazine? Actually I have a good hunch about that, but I could use a good definition. Also I would appreciate a list of related terms (magazines can be staggered, ..., ..., ... and ...)

Best regards, Alexey

[P95Carry]

Alexey - welcome back to the thread!! Been a few months!

I assume here you are referring to ''single-stack'' and ''double-stack'' magazines really. Here is a simple diag' .... in fact probably showing what folks all know already!

On left - single stack - with single column of rounds sitting on mag' follower. On right - the usual sort of stacking in a double stack - not truly double but giving a staggered result. Obviously greater capacity but with an increase in width - reflected by gun having wider grips of course.

Not shown are mag' lips - at top - which center and constrain top round. I guess that can be imagined easily enough.

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/img_assd/mag-stack.gif

[Alexey931]

Thanks! Very nice of you to remember me. I suspect that staggered and double stack are not quite the same thing. I can tell for certain that 'staggered' applies to Beretta M9 mag, which is indeed double stack, but with a single top round, which is common with pistols, but to my knowledge newer happens with rifles. I hope there are different terms to describe these two kinds of mags. I suspect 'staggered' belongs to these pistol-type mags. Any comment is welcome :).

Best regards, Alexey

[P95Carry]

AFAIK Alexey - considering things like mags for AK and my FAL etc ... they are still ''staggered'' double ... I know of no mags for anything where the rounds would be truly doubled next to each other.

Thing is - there must always be just one round coming to top of stack to strip off and load - anything other than the stagger would make things tricky I think! Maybe someone else will chip in but - staggered is always to me the principle used in ''double'' stackers - rifle, handgun whatever..

[Alexey931]

No, no! Double stack is always 'checkered' (staggered?), but with double stack pistol mags the rounds usually reorder themselves to 'single stack' so on top is a single round strictly 'amidships', which is not the case with rifle double stack mags. I keep asking whether there are proper terms to distingwish between these two cases?

Best regards, Alexey

[Khornet]

take the M1 clip, for example. It is a staggered, double-stack device, but the top round is not centered, and when picked up by the bolt feeds initially from left or right of center, being directed to the midline by the conical breech face. Likewise the M16/AR15 mags feed from either side of midline. 1903A3 magazine does also.

So I think there is no term for this kind of mag because almost all rifle mags work that way, thus needing no special term. Pistol mags, on the other hand, were all single-stack at first, and so when increased-capacity mags were introduced (Browning Hi Power, I believe) a new term was needed to distinguish them from traditional mags. Hence double-stack, meaning a staggered mag which feeds the top round from the midline.

[Alexey931]

Term 'staggered' is taken from the Beretta 92F/M9 Manual.

Best regards, Alexey

[P95Carry]

Alexey - OK, with you on that - see what you mean.

But - there is no designation I am aware of that will distinguish between these variations. Khornet is correct re the rifle vs handgun difference - but lower down the mags the stagger is pretty much the same.

The average and usual semi handgun has a central feed ramp and accepts rounds of course from between mag feed lips - thus centrally. Again as Khornet points out - almost all rifles that are semi - certainly all I have used or own - indeed, strip off alternate rounds from left and right. The guidance then for said rounds is not so much a ''feedramp'' as such - just a large chamfer around the chamber.

But you knew all this anyways!!. Just no term I know of to differentiate between the types as far as names go. :)

[Alexey931]

Why the stress on the Short Magazine? Almost all its contemporaries have magazines just as short. I wonder if there is a LMLE somewhere in the cupboard...

Best regards, Alexey

[P95Carry]

On this I have no input!! However, were the THR member ''SMLE'' to see this maybe he would have a response. :p

Season's Greetings Alexey. :)

[Majic]

Actually you have put two of the letters together. The original rifle was the Lee-Metford rifle and was denoted by MLM for Magazine Lee Metford. When the rifle was modified to handle the new smokeless powder the name changed to the Lee Enfield Magazine Rifle and was called the MLE. Then the rifle was modified again with the most prevalent change being the barrel was shortened and was then renamed the Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifle or the SMLE.
So it's not Short Magazine like there was a long magazine model, but the "Short" denotes the barrel is now shorter from the previous model.

[Alexey931]

Thank you very much. Greetings too.

Best regards, Alexey

[Alexey931]

What is beltless feed and how it works? I am not even sure about the correct name. It is feeding system usually employed with Gatling guns.

Best regards, Alexey

[P95Carry]

Haha - time to resurrect your old favorite eh! :)

All that comes to mind here for me is spring assisted gravity feed, from a magazine.

[Majic]

Beltless feed is the link system you see on the machinguns. The cartridges are held together by interlocking links. The links are seperated when a round is fed into the gun. Originally the cartridges were held on webbed belts that were fed into the gun.

[P95Carry]

Good on ya majic - darn - was not thinking very laterally earlier. :rolleyes:

Of course - belt per se - fabric/webbing - was indeed original belt proper. I cannot tho for like of me think of the term for the metal links - is it something like ''disintegrating link''?? Still associate that with belting tho for some reason.

Mind you - thinking Gatlings per se - were not the earliest ones fed from a top mag? Was it not towards developments re maxim that first belting was brought in?

[BluesBear]

I think the Gatling Gun was originally referred to as a "hopper feed" firearm. The hopper could be replentished with loose cartridges while firing.

The hopper idea worked but it was too easy for a cartridge to get reversed which would really jam up the works. Thus the feed strip was developed to ensure that the cartridges would remain properly oriented.



Machineguns, such as the M60, the M249 and the Mk19, which use disintegrating links are still considered to be "belt fed" weapons.

[P95Carry]

Ahh - the feed strip - there ya go. It all comes flooding back! ;) :)

[Alexey931]

A nice term. It just doesn't explain what propels the rounds inside and what keeps them from jamming. Somebody suggested that it is gravity, but I am not convinced. Those feed strips sometimes look like a roller coaster.

Best regards, Alexey