Building up my survival arsenal


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mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 01:49 AM
This is my first post here on THR, just looking for some advise and feedback. A while back i had to drastically reduce my collection due to some financial bumps in the road. I'm receiving some inheritance money soon and I'm thinking of putting about $1,500-2,000 to getting my collection going again.
Right now all i have are two 12ga; my Mossberg 550 mariner for home defense, and my grandfather's old Remington wingmaster 870 (30" barrel w/full choke) for hunting. Home defense, hunting and emergency survival readiness are the primary functions of the weapons I'm looking to get.
To round off the collection with about $1,500-2,000, I'm currently thinking about picking up the Marlin Papoose (backpacking, wilderness survival, emergency kit), a WASR-10 (deer and defense), and a Taurus PT-1911AR (wilderness side arm/defense). I've owned both a wasr and a PT-1911 and loved them, and had a marlin 60 that was a piece of junk. What do y'all think? I'm looking for thoughts, recommendations, things to consider. What do y'all have to say?

EDIT: THIS IS NOT A SHTF POST. Though its fun to think about, I'm looking for a well rounded collection so i have the right tools for various wilderness outings, hunting and self defense.
BY "SURVIVAL WEAPONS" I MEAN:
a) whoops, got lost in the wilderness, I sure am glad i have this .22 so I can eat some squirrel and this .45 in case i run into a cougar.
b) here I am at my shack in the woods, I sure am glad i can hunt various things in the area with this well rounded collection that will also keep me safe in any BGs come round.

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strambo
June 28, 2010, 02:05 AM
I have no idea what a Marlin "Papoose" is, but the other 2 sound good, esp. since you owned them before and liked 'em. A .22 (rifle or pistol), a centerfire pistol and the AK (plus the shotguns you have now) is a good group of guns for your stated purpose.

FTSESQ
June 28, 2010, 02:33 AM
I have no idea what a Marlin "Papoose" is,

Its like an AR7... Although I like the AR7 better, but its personal preference.

IMHO, if you are thinking survival, you are right in looking for a good, light weight, easily carried .22. Most .22's are fairly accurate (At least for hunting or emergency self defense), and almost anyone can carry one plus a year's worth of ammo.

For the "survival situation" thought exercise I also like the .357 combo. That is, a revolver is .357 and a lever action carbine in .357. Think about it. A 4 inch .357 can be loaded with light .38 special loads for rabbit or squirrel (or SD for non shooting folks) up to full house .357 that are boarder line for bear. Or, load with shot shells for close quarters foul or snake. The .357 leaver gun can easily bag deer or boar. You have a light weigh carbine that can handle any medium game animal (Or hostile 2 legged varmints) within 200 yards, maybe further out in good hands. Light weight ammo, and you only have to carry one caliber. If you need more firepower the 44 Mag/44 special combo, or 45 Long Colt variants would also work.

Not to rain on your parade, but I would stay away from the Taurus guns. Lots of mixed feelings on them and spotty quality. Some people get good ones, some get lemons... Wouldn't chance it. if you want a 1911, but don't want to spend a lot, I'd look for a good used Colt or Springfield GI or the like. Besides, if you are thinking wilderness, a .357 will handle a lot more than a .45 (although a high quality .22 conversion would add a new dimension of utility to the 1911) Remember, quality only costs more at the register....

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 02:42 AM
Its like an AR7... Although I like the AR7 better, but its personal preference.


I was considering an AR7. I really like that it all fits in the stock. I'd much rather have something that breaks down like the ar7, I've just read so many poor reviews about accuracy and reliability. You haven't had issues though?

As for the Taurus pt 1911, my old one worked far better than the para ordinance 1911 slim hawg I used to own for CC. I know a lot of people don't like taurus, but i hear they are getting a lot better, in terms of quality. Have you gotten a chance to fire the PT1911?

FTSESQ
June 28, 2010, 02:43 AM
Papoose and AR7. Papoose is the pic with the ruler...

FTSESQ
June 28, 2010, 03:09 AM
I was considering an AR7. I really like that it all fits in the stock. I'd much rather have something that breaks down like the ar7,

Not only does it break down nicely, but it will float also.

I've just read so many poor reviews about accuracy and reliability. You haven't had issues though?

No issues... Once you find good mags. Some magazines (maybe a lot of them) are cheap and crappy. Good mags are key. Accuracy is not the best, but is acceptable. maybe 2inch, 5 shot groups on a good day. Sufficient for SHTF hunting, I think.

As for the Taurus pt 1911, my old one worked far better than the para ordinance 1911 slim hawg I used to own for CC. I know a lot of people don't like taurus, but i hear they are getting a lot better, in terms of quality. Have you gotten a chance to fire the PT1911?

OK, fair enough. But please realize that the full size 1911 and a micro 1911 like the Hawg are completely different animals. Any small 1911 (under 4 inch barrel) are almost exponentially more unreliable than the full size 5 inch model. Please note, I'm not a Coolaid drinking Taurus hater. I actually really liked my 4 inch Ti Tracker. It was a light weight, accurate .357 with a fairly good single action trigger pull (although HEAVY double action) that was comfortable to shoot. But my brother bought the same gun from the same dealer two months after I bought mine and his was horrible. Gritty single action pull, no where near as accurate (no matter who did the shooting), and quickly developed timing issues. Although, his double action trigger pull was smother than mine. Go figure. He sold his, and I gave him mine because he liked it so much and I bought a Ruger GP100 for $75 more than the Taurus, and it is an infinitely better gun, although much heavier.

My main qualm with Taurus is their hit or miss (no pun intended) quality. Some folks get good ones, some get lemons... but, in either case, for just a few dollars more, you can get a solidly good gun. For my hard earned money, I'd rather spend a little more and know that I'm getting quality than roll the dice. Even though I personally had a pretty good experience, I'm just not willing to risk it.

P.S. Regardless, in a survival/ SHTF situation I still think that you would be better served by a quality .357 wheel gun. You can get a GP100 in the $400-$500 range

DustyVermonter
June 28, 2010, 03:10 AM
I'd say get a saiga in 7.62x39 or .308. They are economical, customizable, reliable, durable rifles that you can totally hunt with, in fact they are popular hunting guns in Alaska as they can withstand freezing wet conditions on long hunting expeditions. Not to mention they are essentially a russian kalishnakov, which is thought of as the highest quality AK available. I have the Saiga 7.62x39 w/ 16in barrel and I'm totally confident in its hunting/defense capabilities. Its the perfect hunting/ranch rifle in my opinion, as opposed to the mini-14 that is more expensive and less reliable, not to mention less potent. I had a mini-30 and while its a 'sexy' looking piece and everything, I wasn't to crazy about it. It was really finnicky, ammo sensitive and in my experience only shot about 70% of the time so I sold it and got a Saiga.

As for a trail sidearm/knockin around the house gun, reliability is a must for me, so a Glock17 or Glock21 would do nicely to get things going. Than perhaps a nice lightweight 6 shooter in .38spl or .357magnum. It sounds like you have the Shotgun situation covered. So there you go, at $400-$500 for the Saiga, $500 for the glock and $300-$400 for a .38spl you are well in your range and would be off to a pretty good start with some pretty vesatile guns capable of serving just about every purpose.

killchain
June 28, 2010, 03:15 AM
If you're being budget minded, you could consider an SKS instead of an AK model.

And for superior reliability in a bad situation, I'd think about a revolver for a handgun. :)

BHP FAN
June 28, 2010, 03:23 AM
You might consider the Ruger 10/22.That's where any collection of mine would start.

DustyVermonter
June 28, 2010, 03:37 AM
You did specify "survival" arsenal. When preparing for any type of survival scenario, it would be safe to assume that you may have to be holed up somewhere for an uncertain amount of time and it could be in less than desirable conditions. It is my opinion that nothing even comes close to a Glocks ability to withstand the elements. I love 1911's too I just personally wouldn't want to be trying to clean one in a survival scenario, they are kind of a pain to get clean and assemble/disassemble, one man's opinion. I love the .45 caliber and know a lot of people would argue as to which is more important, proficient stopping power or capacity, but I believe the 9mm has both, personally I would take 17 rounds of 9mm than 7-8 .45acp in a survival scenario. You can also disassemble/assemble and clean a Glock in about 1 minute flat. I love saigas and revolvers for the same reasons I love Glocks, you asked I told, I'm done, carry on...:)

DustyVermonter
June 28, 2010, 03:48 AM
If your into those nifty little survival rifles like the AR-7 than you definitely need to check out the M-6 scout, I believe its made by springfield. It is the 'niftiest' rifle I have ever seen. Go to www.youtube.com and type in M-6 scout survival rifle

FTSESQ
June 28, 2010, 03:53 AM
Hey- just had a brain fart. An option for the .22 rifle. The Marlin 39A. Larger and heavier and maybe not as easy to transport, but definitely much more accurate and reliable than the papoose, M6, or AR7.

DustyVermonter
June 28, 2010, 04:04 AM
Note: Springfield M6 Scout Survival rifle NOT to be confused with the Springfield M1A Scout Squad. If you like the AR-7 and the Marlin Papoose than the M6 scout survival rifle is an absolute Must See!!!

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 04:16 AM
I do like that M6 scout, the whole .22/410 seems useful. I do want more than a 1 round capacity on my .22, though semi-auto isn't a must. thanks for the input though.

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 04:38 AM
now you got me thinking, though. any thoughts on the rossi 22-410

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 04:41 AM
or for that matter, the rossi match set 22-20? or the trifecta?

pockets
June 28, 2010, 08:06 AM
I'm currently thinking about picking up the Marlin Papoose (SNIP)
I've owned both a wasr and a PT-1911 and loved them, and had a marlin 60 that was a piece of junk.
The Marlin Papoose has the same basic action as the Model 60. It is a breakdown version of the Marlin Model 70, which is just the magazine fed version of the Model 60. If you don't like the Model 60 you have, why buy the same gun in breakdown form?
I used to love the AR7 design, until after owning a few. My current Henry Survival version is not as good as my old Charter Arms Explorer version, which wasn't as good as my old AR7. Neat design, love how it all stows in the stock......but.
Have you considered a folding stock on a Ruger 10/22?
.

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 08:29 AM
one thing i really didn't like about the marlin 60 was the internal mag. It was mainly a plinker, and i consistently fired pretty cheap ammo through it. I had a lot of FTF and FTE issues as it'd junk up so fast. is the Papoose at all better in that regard? in survival situations i'd be using quality ammo.

I have been thinking more about the ruger 10/22. any thoughts on the 10/22 charger?

TexasBill
June 28, 2010, 09:37 AM
The 10/22 is a good rifle, but I like my Henry better. It will shoot stuff that jams the Ruger and is about the same price. I actually bought the youth model. If you want something that breaks down for whatever reason, why not just get a Ruger or Browning .22 automatic pistol with a 6-inch barrel?

You might also look at a Ruger Mini-14. Cheaper than most of the AR-style rifles.

Taurus QC is still too hit-and-miss for my tastes. Glocks are no better than most of the quality autoloaders on the market. While it's heresy to many, I think there are better SD pistols on the market than the thousand-and-one M1911 clones. There are some very good pistols available from Smith & Wesson, Walther, FN, Beretta and others and the Ruger GP-100 revolver is hard to beat, though I prefer the Smith & Wessons.

The shared-caliber option is worth considering. I have a Beretta CX4 and PX4 in matching calibers with six magazines they can share. I can have more than 100 rounds of ammunition ready to go.

The big question in my mind is was kind of SD scenario are you considering? Basic home defense or Armageddon/zombie attacks?

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 09:53 AM
The big question in my mind is was kind of SD scenario are you considering? Basic home defense or Armageddon/zombie attacks?

home/self defense scenarios are more likely, but who doesn't like being prepared for zombies?

JoeMal
June 28, 2010, 10:07 AM
one thing i really didn't like about the marlin 60 was the internal mag. It was mainly a plinker, and i consistently fired pretty cheap ammo through it. A few things.......

I just bought a new Marlin 60 and it works great. The only ammo I've had any problems with is Federal Lightning. Fed bulk stuff runs great though. I have also shot Rem bulk, Rem Thunderbolt, CCI Minimags, and Blazer without ANY problems. For some reason it just doesn't like the Lightning.

in survival situations i'd be using quality ammo.Survival situation with a .22? Unless you're defending yourself from killer rabbits, I would refer to a larger caliber for 'survival situations'

I have been thinking more about the ruger 10/22. any thoughts on the 10/22 charger?I went with the Marlin because of the comments regarding the 10/22 and accuracy/ammo problems. Many claim (both Marlin AND 10/22 owners) that the Marlin is a better gun 'out of the box'. Sure, you can dump $1000 into a 10/22 to make it a great shooter, but is that really necessary? I can easily shoot 1-2" 10 shot groups at 30 yards with iron sights out of my Marlin any day of the week (and I'm a beginner when it comes to rifles). That's good enough for me for a stock, $150 rifle. Someday I will put a scope on it and see what it's capable of at longer ranges.

SaxonPig
June 28, 2010, 10:15 AM
#49 on my list of gun discussion 100 FAQs.

----------------------------

SHTF gun? (Urban combat and survivalist scenarios.)

49. A popular topic on some forums is debating what guns to have on hand for Armageddon. There likely isn’t one best answer for this because there are differing possible scenarios. For personal defense of home and family in case of a total break down of law and order, any gun will probably do. Looters and other criminals are cowards and any show of force usually drives them away seeking easier targets. For those anticipating actual combat, against standing armies (foreign or domestic) then I guess some military style rifle would be best. The AR15 makes sense to me as it uses the same magazines and ammo as the U.S. military so scrounging in a prolonged conflict might be possible. Although I have to question how many Americans would actually take up arms and how well scattered and disorganized civilians armed with SKS carbines and AR15s would fare against the U.S. Army if civil war broke out. Yeah, we all saw “Red Dawn” but it was pure fiction and remember how the film ended, with everyone dead.

For taking to the hills and surviving, a 22 rifle and a shotgun for food gathering would be a good choice. Bear in mind that the various take-down 22 rifles are handy but horribly inaccurate and the purpose is to actually GATHER FOOD and not just have a cool gun. Something compact but accurate like a Ruger 10/22 makes much more sense. Since you may have to plan on having no more than what you can carry, a long barrel target grade 22 pistol may be even better. Sure, we’d LIKE to have a fighting rifle; a hunting rife; a shotgun; a couple of handguns; not to mention thousands of rounds of ammunition, but can you carry all this stuff? What makes you think you will be able to transport and store this much equipment?

Again, I have to wonder how many of us could really survive in the wilderness with nothing more than what we could carry with us? Those of us who are old; broken down; and on medications for chronic ailments know that if society collapses, we won’t last long anyway.

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 10:27 AM
Survival situation with a .22? Unless you're defending yourself from killer rabbits, I would refer to a larger caliber for 'survival situations'

by survival situation with a .22, i mean needing to pick off some small game to eat, NOT self defense. for self defense, there's the 45, 12ga, or 7.62x39. thanks for the input on the marlin though. at this point I'm thinking, for the 22, either a marlin papoose, or a ruger 10-22 w/folding stock or a ruger 10-22 charger

JoeMal
June 28, 2010, 10:30 AM
by survival situation with a .22, i mean needing to pick off some small game to eat, NOT self defenseAhhh I see. Definitely a difference there :banghead: Sounds like you're on the right track. Good luck.

Also, you mentioned you didn't like the tube-fed characteristic of the 60. Maybe look into the Marlin 795 (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/selfloading/795.asp)? Pretty much the same gun only mag fed. I think it's even cheaper than the 60 (I KNOW it's cheaper than a 10/22), which will leave you more money for the rest of your arsenal/ammo

TexasBill
June 28, 2010, 10:32 AM
SaxonPig has it pretty much right; it's going to take a well-prepared individual with lots of skills and experience to fend off the Mongol hordes (or zombies). Or even evade them.

As far as armaments go, I would imagine the true survivor-type would start out with some combination of a long gun and handgun, but would quickly "acquire" the weapons and ammunition of the prevailing military or invading force. Why carry a hundred pounds of ammo when your opposition will do it for you?

In my mind, strength does lie in numbers and small groups of people would have a better chance at long-term survival. You have to sleep sometime and it's a lot easier if you've got somebody covering your six.

CZ223
June 28, 2010, 10:33 AM
which guns you pick, someone will always have a problem with something you have chosen. All guns have their problems and their detractors, and still others are over-hyped. Here are my thoughts.

Taurus 1911: I have two and I love them. I have well over 3000 rounds through one without a hitch other than 3 of my reload induced problems. The other has around 1000 rounds through it and has been just as reliable. I also have two Kimbers that sell for nearly double what the Taurus sells for and I had problems with one of them that required gunsmithing. Since you had one and trust it , buy another if you want, but like any other gun, put it through it's paces to make sure it is reliable.

Other choices in handguns:
While I do love my 1911's and would have no problem trusting my life to them, they would not be my first choice for a SHTF gun. Revolvers, sure they are reliable, but they only hold 5-8 rounds. They are also very heavy and bulky. There are several good choices when it comes to "Wunderguns". What I mean by Wundergun is a high capacity polymer pistol. The Springfield XD, S&W M&P and, of course, Glocks. There are several other good choices as well. I choose the Glock 23 in 40 S&W. The gun holds 14 rounds with one in the chamber and weighs a full pound less than a standard government model with 9 rounds of 45. It is also quite concealable. Mine never fails. I think the 40 S&W offers more stopping power than the 9mm with a significant increase in capacity over the 45, a pretty good compromise in my humble opinion. Also, the 40 ammo is significantly cheaper than 45.

Rifles: I have been looking at WASR 10's lately and the EAA Zastava from Serbia looks like a really solid choice. The Saiga is also a very good choice. I have one and it is rock solid.

22 Rifle: A good lever action like the Marlin 39/97, Henry or, Winchester 9422 would all be good reliable choices. The Henry being the best bang for the buck and short barreled takedown Marlin being the handiest.

With all of that said about the lever guns, I think my coice in 22 would come down to a couple of Rugers. The 10/22 is hard to beat when it comes to all around rifles. Who said it had to be a rifle, a good accurate hanggun like the Ruger MarK II/III is plenty capable of taking small game especially when equipped with a scope. The Ruger charger would also have to get some consideration in this area due to its compactness. I would probaly opt for a used Mark II in stainless.

My Choices are: Glock 23 w/night sights. Used $365- $450 New $600
Saiga or Zastava New $350
Ruger Mark II/II Used $350 New $500
If it has to be a rifle Ruger 10/22 New $250 Folding stock $100
4 extra new mags for the Glock $100
2-3 extra mags for the Ruger $60
4-5 mags for the rifle ?
Use any leftover money t o stock up on ammo

mattdylan
June 28, 2010, 10:36 AM
#49 on my list of gun discussion 100 FAQs.
Since you may have to plan on having no more than what you can carry, a long barrel target grade 22 pistol may be even better. Sure, we’d LIKE to have a fighting rifle; a hunting rife; a shotgun; a couple of handguns; not to mention thousands of rounds of ammunition, but can you carry all this stuff? What makes you think you will be able to transport and store this much equipment?


While it is fun to think about what SHTF guns you'd want, thats not what i'm looking at, primarily. I would like for my guns to be good guns when things fall apart, but I'm looking at practical weapons for right now. I live on 5 acres, dear, rabbits and squirrel come around. Its also not a spot where i can see my neighboors and there have been break ins and thefts in the area. I also go backpacking in wilderness areas where it'd be nice to have something small and light to take some small game with. I like the Idea of a target pistol, I'm looking hard at the Ruger Charger

bannockburn
June 28, 2010, 10:44 AM
If I were going that route, I would consider a Ruger 10/22 with a Butler Creek folding stock and a 2.5 or 1X4 power scope. I think you've got the shotguns well covered. For the rifle, I think either an AR-15 or AK variant would serve you well; maybe one which features a folding or collapsible stock. In a pistol, a semi-auto in 9mm. or .45 (Glock, SIG, CZ, Browning, or M1911), which also has a .22 conversion kit available for it. In a revolver, I would probably opt for DA .357; S&W or Ruger would be my choices here.

BHP FAN
June 28, 2010, 10:49 AM
The 10/22 is on sale at big five right this minute for $ 229.They are dependable, accurate, inexpensive, and mine will eat any ammo I feed it. Sure you can spend hundreds on ''upgrades'', but none are nessesary...the only ''fripery'' on mine is a $39.00 red dot scope, but that's only on there for fun. In a survival scenario, once the batteries wear out, the red dot scope could be pitched and replaced with a conventional cross hair scope,or the iron sights.

BHP FAN
June 28, 2010, 10:56 AM
The Charger is an excellent idea, by the way. A compromise between a carbine and a pistol, and they carry very well. Much more accurate than my AR7, and almost on a par with my full sise 10/22.I'd add one to my collection in a heart beat if they were legal in California.I shot a buddy of mine's Charger up in Oregon, and I gotta say, if I could only own ONE .22 [and I didn't live where I do] that would be it.What ever you decide,buy spare magazines, at least one, preferably many.

BHP FAN
June 28, 2010, 11:11 AM
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-22Charger.htm

merlinfire
June 28, 2010, 12:53 PM
If you're going to be on the move, the key is to get something light. Remember, you won't be carrying ONLY firearms, also ammunition, food/water, and other survival gear. Could get pretty heavy.

Personally, I'd go for a .22 revolver for small game and a light rifle in at least .223 for bigger game and defense. With the right choices, you could have your firearms total weight around 10 lbs. For me? Ruger Single-Six .22LR w/ cylinder for .22 Mag and a Howa or Remington .223 or .308. .22LR is the most common cartridge in the world, and in the US, .223 and .308 are not only common civilian fired cartridges, but there are of course vast military holdings of these calibers as well.

If you're buttoning down and not moving around much, well, my only preference would be that more is better. Make sure you have reloading equipment and plenty of components.

mbt2001
June 28, 2010, 02:38 PM
CZ-82 (9x18) can be had for $200+shipping
Moisin Nagant (7.62x54r) can be had for $80.00 plus shipping
Pawn shop .22 rifles can be had for $60 - $120
There are cheap shotguns out there as well, ranging from single shots, to home defense type pumps or modest hunting guns ($100 - $280)


Seriously, while it is nice to have all kinds of guns, what more do you really need? If you hit some financial straights, as you say, and are about to inherit some cash, then do yourself a favor and plow the cash into getting a bit ahead on bills, and buy some of the cheap guns I just mentioned.

There is no sense in spending thousands that you don't have to prepare for a SHTF event that may never come.


EDIT:

Heritage rough rider, a great single action .22 sixgun that can be had for $180 or so... Usually comes with a spare cylinder to shoot mags.

goon
June 28, 2010, 03:36 PM
I have also heard bad things about the Taurus guns though - a friend who manages a gun department tells me that he literally sends half the Taurus guns he sells back for repairs. He tries to talk people out of buying them, they don't listen, then they are surprised when they don't work right. Last I heard he was trying to convince the owner to just stop selling them.
And, if you're going to go with the Papoose, why not just go to a handgun? I'd imagine that the extra practice a .22 can give should make you just about surgical with a handgun and it packs even easier than any rifle. A .22 handgun is a hole in my collection right now and I really do notice it.
But I wouldn't be without a .22 rifle. If your budget is what you say, you can afford both.
My personal favorite is the CZ-452.

KodiakBeer
June 28, 2010, 04:11 PM
For a real survival "SHTF" situation, I'd think a good reloading set up would be primary - large stocks of powder, lead, moulds, primers, etc.

Ammo would be the new gold and he who has the ammo is going to be in a very good situation not only for himself, but for trading to get other necessities.

Weapons - none of them are going to be stamped Rossi or Taurus or any other doubtful manufacturer.

The primary weapon - pump shotgun. Game of all sizes, defense, etc.
Secondary weapon - .22 (until you run out of ammo). Ruger 10/22.
Third - mid bore bolt rifle in a common caliber, .308 or 30.06 would be my choice.
Fourth - large bore handgun. I'd go with a .45 auto, but would be just as happy with a .357, .44, .45 wheelgun.
Fifth - an AK or AR and a large stock of ammo. This would remain hidden (but readily accessible) and unknown to even my closest acquaintances. It's my hole card for when things get very dark.

PH/CIB
June 29, 2010, 12:57 AM
If I was living out of a backpack in a survival situation, I would carry a 22 pistol for close range shooting of small game for the pot, birds, rabbits, squirrels.etc. I would prefer a silencer for it if survival means not just surviving in the wilderness but also eluding men. I would carry a scoped rifle, the scope would be a 1x4 power and the rifle would also have iron sights, a bolt action 375 H&H would take care of most critters although I would not be too unhappy with a bolt action 3006 or 308.

If tactical where besides surviving I might have to defend against armed men, a FAL in 308 or Vepr AK in 308 or M1A in 308 would be my first choice,,, if carrying a lot of ammo is the primary concern,,, an AR in 556 would be good except against big bears and moose etc. An AK would be a compromise that I could live with between the powerful 308 and the light to carry 556. If self defense against men is a concern a suppressor for this rifle would be desired also. Anything battery operated would be avoided or used very sparingly since resupply would be an issue.

DustyVermonter
June 29, 2010, 01:39 AM
These may spark an interest: Thompson/center G2 contender available in about 17 calibers, Browning BuckMark Sporter .22lr, Smith and Wesson 22s,22a in 22lr, Mossberg JIC cruiser 12ga w/compact airtight travel case and the Thompson TA5 .45acp (compact tommy gun) by Kahr arms. I think you're on to something with the 10/22 and the 10/22 charger, I have the 10/22 and my buddy has the charger. The 10/22 was the second gun I ever bought and I bought it used, if I could go back I would have just bought one new but it still hasn't let me down, I can drive nails with it at 50yrds with iron sights offhand.

Guncollector1982
June 29, 2010, 01:49 AM
I grew up shooting my dads marlin i believe that it was called a model 70 and i think the papoose kinda sorta replaced it maybe not sure on that???? It was basically a carbine model 60 and id never experienced problems of any nature with it that i can recall once, it had 7 shot mags and it was accurate. I dont remember what all ammo i had put threw it pretty much whatever i could find back then, i know i had remingtons, and winchesters in it and most likely federals. I have a ruger 10/22 now i have no complaints with it either but i havent put more then a 100 rounds threw it since i owned it either. Personally i liked the old "carbine" model but i dont really have much flair for the papooses looks but thats just personal taste is all not meant to be offensive to anyone at all.

Kentucky
June 29, 2010, 02:10 AM
If I only had 2K to spend on a survival armory, this is how I would start, assuming that mags and ammo are paid for separately.

AK74 in 5.45 - Since your entire armory has to be purchased for 2 grand I am gonna assume that funds for are going to be really tight too. No better bang for your buck than the 5.45. Rifle and first two mags are 329.99 from Centerfire Systems. Figure 370 to get it to your door. I started with the most important weapon first, because the gun you use to fight with takes priority over everything else. The AK does a lot better job of hunting than the 22 does at fighting. Matter of fact, it is so important that even with this limited budget I am going to buy two of them. That way you have a replacement should something go horribly wrong with the first, or one to hand to your wife or whoever might be fighting with you. Get 12 or so more mags and a few thousand rounds of ammo as soon as possible. 740 total for the rifles.

Glock 17 in 9mm - Probably the most durable, reliable semi-auto handgun in the world, or pretty close. Factor in the availability of mags and parts and it is an unbeatable combo. If you are really talking about bad times you are going to appreciate the fact that the G17 has twice the capacity of a 1911, and since ammo costs about 1/2 as much you can buy twice as much. Figure 500 to your door.

Ruger 10-22 w/folding stock. Small, compact, portable, much more reliable and accurate than the little "survival" gimick 22's. And course, parts and mags are plentiful, and the ability to customize it is almost unlimited. Figure 300 dollars.

Ruger MKIII - A nice accurate little 22 pistol. There are a lot of uses for something like this in a survival situation. 300 dollars.

MN M44 - We have been a little light in the power department, so for 100 bucks we will get something that you can shoot the grizzlies off your front porch with. Good round for taking deer, or other big game hunting. Again, ammo is the cheapest in this class.

All of the above have been selected for reliability, value, availability, and the fact that ammo is very reasonable in these calibers. None of them are as sexy as a nice 1911, or as unique as a Papoose, but they will all work and get the job done more efficiently and economically. With my last 60 dollars from the 2 grand I am gonna go to Walmart and buy a pellet/bb gun. Will be great for pest elimination, and quiet hunting of small game.


Ammo would be the new gold and he who has the ammo is going to be in a very good situation not only for himself, but for trading to get other necessities.

Can't be emphasized enough. Gotta have ammo or they are all just funny shaped clubs. You sure are going to need to start socking money into ammo and mags fast.

I dont think you could have a better survival armory for 2 thousand dollars. I might tweak it a little depending on location. For instance, if I lived in Alaska I might drop the MKIII and get a 44 revolver, but otherwise I have a hard time seeing how you could beat this collection on a limited budget, especially when you take into consideration ammo and accessories.

mattdylan
June 29, 2010, 05:17 AM
sweet, thanks for al the help. i appreciate the mag capacity with the glock, I'd just rather go with the stopping power of .45 hollow tips. Right now i'm thinking wasr-10, taurus 1911, ruger charger

BHP FAN
June 29, 2010, 05:43 AM
Seem like good, solid choices.

DustyVermonter
June 30, 2010, 12:56 AM
I smell a caliber war... 9mm Vs. .45acp

DustyVermonter
June 30, 2010, 01:36 AM
I don't want to sound like an Anti-1911-ist but you could get a Glock21 .45acp and you'd have one helluva reliable .45 with little to no maintainence required to function, with a mag capacity of 13rds. Don't get me wrong the 1911 is one badass platform I'm just hung up on the survival aspect of your thread. But hey, with your budget if you get the charger, 1911, wasr-10 you still have money left for a Glock or a saiga. I have nothing to gain whatsoever regarding your choice of weaponry so you'll believe me when I tell you I'm only asking out of pure curiosity, But why would you choose a Wasr-10 over a Saiga 7.62x39? BTW if you do go for a CAI wasr-10 you may want to make sure you get a Wasr-10/63 GP75. The Wasr-10/63 GP75 has newer unused parts, Tapco G2 trigger(no horrible trigger slap), and some other minor upgrades. They use newer produced parts so your gun isn't assembled with stockpiled military rejected parts and you are less likely to get one with a canted barrel. I got the wasr-10/63 GP75 and it was assembled in 2008 as opposed to late 70's early 80's. I would only advocate a Saiga because its cheaper but is also 'completely' new and has no chance of having used,rejected,stockpiled,surplus,defective parts with canted barrels and whatnot. Tapco intrafuse makes a lot of custom aftermarket parts for the saiga as well. Just trying to be as informative as possible and give you the information I have so you are able to make an informed decision. Just remember if you go with the wasr-10 take a look at the trigger, if it says tapco g2, get it, provided it doesn't have any other issues. Mine was $460

mbt2001
June 30, 2010, 01:26 PM
.45 is expensive to shoot. That is a fact. Great to have, but if you are tight on money, there is no sense in looking at it, unless you are inheriting one or have an option to buy it at a steal.

Legionnaire
June 30, 2010, 01:33 PM
You already have the shotgun(s) covered. My choices, given your criteria, would be:

4" stainless Ruger GP100 .357 mag for defense, and hunting in a pinch.
Ruger 10/22 or other reliable accurate rifle/carbine in .22LR.
Scoped bolt-action rifle in .308 (or .30-06).

My whole philosophy in a survival situation would be to avoid situations that might lead to a pitched battle. If I'm alone against a group of any size, I'm going to lose regardless of what I'm armed with unless I can disengage and disappear. So I favor hunting rifles, with a sturdy revolver thrown in "just in case." The above could easily be achieved well within your budget buying good, used guns. Rest would go into ammo and/or reloading supplies.

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