[mohunter55]

I was reading the below website:

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html

and i found this statement:

"To the best of our understanding of the incident, the cartridge case was not sized properly, preventing the action from locking up fully, but allowing the action to close enough to fire the weapon. The result was an open breach detonation of the cartridge."

So its got me thinking, with my .45acp reloads a lot of times they wont fit my case gauge unless i really push them in. They fit my barrel, but they will not always drop free. Should i be worried? Do they need to drop free? I hate this gunzone site, but now that i've found it i can't stop reading it. Its got me paranoid.

[rcmodel]

Early 1sr. Gen Glocks were designed in such a way they could fire out of battery by as much as 3/32" inch or more by design.

No other modern handgun can do that if it is in proper working order.

I'd call it more a Glock Perfection problem then a sizing problem.

As for case gages and sticky ammo?
Pretty meaningless IMO.

Your guns chamber is the only case guage that means anything.
If your reloads are sticky in the guns barrel, you need to figure out the problem and fix your reloads.

If the stick in your case guage, that only means they are over SAAMI spec slightly.
But your guns actual chamber is probably way bigger then that.

rc

[mohunter55]

Thanks RC,


My problem is only with 45 acp. I reload .223, 38 special, and 9mm. The only time i have a problem with 45acp is with Lead 200 grain semi-wadcutters. it appears that slightly down the case, towards where the bottom of the bullet touches, it will sometimes be pushed slightly and i will see rub marks on the case at that spot from the case gauge if i really try to push it in the gauge. Would you happen to know the cause of this?...or a fix, i do not want to use the lee factory crimp, since i am using lead and that supposedly resizes the lead causing a loose fit. My dies are RCBS.

[pcwirepro]

Bulged brass? Sizing die threaded all the way in until it kisses the shell plate?

[rcmodel]

The bulge can be caused by several different things.

Perhaps the bullet seating stem does not quite match the bullet nose shape you are using?
That seats them slightly crooked and causes the base to bulge out more on one side.

Perhaps you aren't belling the case mouth quite enough to get lead bullets started straight without shaving lead off one side?
Try belling a little more for lead then you do for jacketed bullets.

You might try hand starting the bullet straight in the case, then finish seating while giving the case a half turn midway through seating.
That sometimes self-aligns the bullet in the case better then just squishing it in crooked if it starts crooked.

rc

[mohunter55]

i bell just enough so i can stick the bullet in the case, turn the case upside down and the bullet doesnt fall out. I am loading semi-wadcutters with the flat seater. I put the die in then raise the ram with a shell in it, screw the die in until it touches the case, then back it out 1 full turn. Thats what the directions say, should i not be backing it out quite so much?

[rcmodel]

Backed off one full turn seems excessive.

No way you can be getting any taper crimp at all with the seating die backed off that far.

Suggest you screw it in until you can measure a taper crimp of about .470" at the case mouth. Then adjust the seating stem for proper seating depth again.

BTW: Any chance you have a seating die marked "roll crimp" by chance?

rc

[pcwirepro]

FWIW, I was having a heck of a time geting my 45 ACP stuff to drop free with any real consistency. It seems like my sizing die just couldn't get there. I tried a FCD with the stem removed and sure enough, the FCD would touch every few cases way down at the bottom. I'm using that method for now but intend to upgrade my old second hand dies.

[mohunter55]

my cases drop free from the gauge after resized. They still drop free after belling as well. I am applying a crimp in a second step. so, when i apply the crimp, i no longer have the die backed out a half a turn.

[243winxb]

The case wall thickness is what makes the bulge on some loaded rounds. Thin brass, no bulge. Thick brass you get a bulge. With a 45acp, you may be able to use .451" diameter bullets if your barrels groove diameter is on the tight side, .451" or smaller. Most times the bulge hurts nothing. Most all FLRSing dies, size down the brass way more then needed. Then the expander opens up the neck area to the correct inside diameter.Pistol or rifle dont matter. The dies must be this way to work with the thinnest of all brass made. :)

[243winxb]

Guns KABOOM all the time. See photos here > http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa I like the guy that started casting bullets, loading the oversize/unsized bullets in a 40 s&w. Broke 2 barrels, till he starting sizing the cast to the correct diamter.

[mohunter55]

alright, tonight i did a little experimenting. i picked up some 230 grain Lead round nose bullets and loaded them up. I used the round seater and every single one of them passed the gauge. These were with the exact same sizing die and exact same amount of belling used for the other LSWC rounds. I cant figure this out, I think i will call RCBS tomorrow, maybe something is off with my flat nose seater?

[918v]

Maybe you have less bullet shank sticking out past the case mouth with the 230LRN? Maybe the additional bullet shank of the 200LSWC sticking out past the case mouth is what is causing your rounds to chamber with difficulty?

[Heavies]

Isn't the lead bullets .452 in dia? That may be the slight bulge you see. Thicker brass sized down and usually use .451 might bulge with .452 slug?
I noticed that in my reloads using swc. I always used FC die.

All of this Never caused any problems for me.

[918v]

A 452" bullet will not bulge a case enough to cause chambering problems. There's about .010" of clearance between a loaded round and the chamber. Another .001" won't matter. But another .001" does matter if your throat mikes .4525". Such a chamber will accept .451" bullets, but .452" bullets will chamber with difficulty if you account for lube and fouling.

[rcmodel]

I used the round seater and every single one of them passed the gauge.

In post #5 I said:
Perhaps the bullet seating stem does not quite match the bullet nose shape you are using?
That seats them slightly crooked and causes the base to bulge out more on one side.

A flat seating stem has no chance of starting the bullet in the case straight if it isn't already pressed partway in the case straight by hand.

You need a seating stem that matches the nose shape of your SWC bullets.

rc

[mohunter55]

rc, i am using a flat stem for seating flat bullets.


i couldnt get ahold of rcbs, so i sent an email 2 days ago. i'm still waiting for a reply.

I think i may have found my problem. How much crimp should i have? ive found that if i crip the guts out of the bullet, it goes in and out of the case gauge just fine everytime. To me, it feels like im over crimping. If i crimp to .469 with lead bullets i get no stuck bullets in the case gauge, anything wider and i get stuck bullets randomly...and only with LSWC, not with LRN. What lead me to try this is the Gun Digest book of glock. In that book, Sweeney talks about competition shooters using a crimp i think of .469 with lead bullets so i tried it and it worked...but it just feels excessive when i pull the ram. Before my crimp measured .471. Any opinions on whether this is excessive or not?

[243winxb]

A little extra crimp using an RCBS taper crimp die will not hurt a thing.

[blackwalnut]

We are taught not to fire ammo that does not fit the chamber of our firearms.

If it does not fit without a push or does not drop free I would go back to basics with my reloads and check my procedures. All these topics are covered in reloading manuals. If your reload does not fit the case gauge I would check it even if it seems to fit my barrel. I do not use case gauges but no those who do and they rely on them as a quality control check. If my reloads fit tight I double check things. Again reliable info is available in all reloading manuals. SAAMI specs are therefore a reason. I have learned that there are many "experts" on-line who will not tell you to consult a published manual from a manufacturer but will blow a lot of common knowledge, rumor and anectodal experiences based on poor practices as reliable authorative information. Consult a reloading manual and in doubt dont fire anything that doesnt fit. On a box of factory ammo and in ammo cataloges these cautions are printed over and over for safety sakes and this in regard to new ammo.

Good Luck. Be safe.

[blackwalnut]

hey RC where did you hear or read of this alleged condition of Glocks firing out of battery? Also if the ammo doesnt fit a SAAMI Spec case gauge why is it OK to fire it out your gun just because it will fit in the chamber? I am curious to know the source of your information. The Glock is a well designed piece so tell me.

[918v]

It's not an alleged condition. It's a fact. Take a Glock, pull the slide back 1/8" and pull the trigger.

[Iron Sight]

Take a micrometer and check the diameter of the lead bullet. You may find that some or all of them bigger than .452 If so you get to resize some bullets/projectiles. Lee makes an inexpensive tool to do this with.

[Roccobro]

hey RC where did you hear or read of this alleged condition of Glocks firing out of battery? Also if the ammo doesnt fit a SAAMI Spec case gauge why is it OK to fire it out your gun just because it will fit in the chamber? I am curious to know the source of your information. The Glock is a well designed piece so tell me.

Old news. Google is your friend.
www.google.com/search?q=glock+fire+out+of+battery (http://www.google.com/search?q=glock+fire+out+of+battery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Justin

[rcmodel]

hey RC where did you hear or read of this alleged condition of Glocks firing out of battery?Looks like your question has already been answered.

And I didn't read or hear about it.

I own, and have owned several brand new early Glocks that would fire partially out of battery just as I discribed.
They were made that way, and came out of the Tupperware box that way!

rc

[ranger335v]

"Can improper sizing lead to KB?"

Don't think improper sizing, as such, was the problem, it was the pistol firing out of battery that was the problem.

[blackwalnut]

I read the google information that I was told to reference and after reading it and quite a few other sites I came to the conclusion that I was in some cases reading alot of Glock bashing. If a pistol doesnt go into to battery either the problem is ammo or something wrong with the pistol. I check my own Glock which is several years old and pulling the slide back less than 1/8 of an inch it released the firing pin after pulling the trigger but it was still in battery. The barrel hood had not even dropped out of position. I did not see any official references to factory bulletins, acknowledgments or even warnings that were mentioned by any of the sites I visited. For a time I worked for a Glock distributor and never encountered problems like this and this over 14 years ago. yes we aware of problems with other product lines and most of these were quality control. My pistol is a 17 and as I noticed no one seems to have any difficulty with these. On another subject I remember individuals mostly leo saying a Glock was dangerous because it had no safety and they feared accidental discharges but i suspect strongly this was nothing but unsafe firearms handling. After all a double action revolver has no safetys and we are all taught to keep our finger out the guards until ready to shoot.

I do not accept common knowledge or anectodal experiences as fact. Sometimes agencys or even the military will skue the results of a trial in order to get or not get some particular piece of equipment. After that everyone jumps in with there version. Oh well I keep shooting my Glock and even get a .40. At the same token if its really true then history shows that all goods designs were tweaked by the inventors. Mausers, winchester lever guns, government models, etc. Its just evolution.