Another Anti-Gun, Anti-CCW Article


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statelineblues
June 28, 2010, 07:54 PM
Just found this article...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100628/us_nm/us_guns_utah

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Zack
June 28, 2010, 08:42 PM
I like the comments.

Kingofthehill
June 29, 2010, 11:01 AM
I'm all for gun ownership but I think there's no place for concealed carry laws. If you're going to carry a gun, wear it on your hip like a man. In the old west men didn't conceal their guns, they wore them openly. The only people with concealed guns were card sharps and crooks.

If carrying is Ok, why do people want to hide their guns. Seems kind of sneaky and un-american to me.


HAHAHAHA!.... what an idiot.

Hey, im all for Open Carry in TX... if i could open carry, i would ONLY open carry.

General Geoff
June 29, 2010, 11:25 AM
If carrying is Ok, why do people want to hide their guns. Seems kind of sneaky and un-american to me.

Freedom of choice is wonderful thing, isn't it?

"If [driving a car] is ok, why do people want to [tint] their [windows]. Seems kind of sneaky and un-american to me."

JoeMal
June 29, 2010, 11:48 AM
"If [driving a car] is ok, why do people want to [tint] their [windows]. Seems kind of sneaky and un-american to me." Great analogy

Ronsch
June 29, 2010, 12:18 PM
Just my $.02 worth...

I was thinking about the whole "open carry" issue last night. The problem I see is that, unless State or Federal Legislatures make it illegal to ban open carry, too many PC-correct businesses are more likely as not to ban carry in their establishments. While that is their right, as a generally, most businesses are "private property with public access", I am of the opinion that even though it may hurt their bottom line, those said businesses are likely as not to keep doing it.

Frank Ettin
June 29, 2010, 01:31 PM
A practical reason for wanting the option to carry concealed: If it's cold or raining, I'll want to wear a cost; and even if it's warm, I like to wear a vest for the pockets. Either way, it's going to cover my gun (if I'd be legal carrying one).

Zack
June 29, 2010, 02:31 PM
"If [driving a car] is ok, why do people want to [tint] their [windows]. Seems kind of sneaky and un-american to me."

1+++

danprkr
June 30, 2010, 04:19 PM
I carry a gun, for I have not the streangth to carry a cop. I carry a .50 caliber for they do not make a .51. I am in possession of neither the desire to kill or die. But should it be my fate to die violently, I do have every intention of exiting this world in exactly the same fashion as I entered it. kicking, screaming, and covered in someone Else's blood

The winner. Doubt it's original, but it is great.

stchman
June 30, 2010, 04:44 PM
This article made me laugh.

SO Utah is giving terrorists permits? Did they not read that each applicant has to pass a background check that is done by the FBI?

Here are a few dumb points about the article.

1. The Utah permit used to not require any shooting training. That has changed.

2. New Mexico is NOT WEST of UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. Criminals don't care about the law and I wish these idiots would realize this.

inSight-NEO
June 30, 2010, 09:50 PM
Got a "combat mindset"?

This struck me right off the bat. A "combat mindset?" Really? Is this now considered indicative of those who choose to own and carry a weapon?

Not all states are happy with Utah's plan. Western neighbors New Mexico and Nevada in recent months have revoked recognition of Utah's licenses because it doesn't oblige applicants to train with a handgun or even fire one.

I do strongly believe that any individual seeking the "right" to CC should be able to demonstrate at least rudimentary weapon knowledge and efficiency at the range. So, hence, I can understand this statement. It is what it is, in this case.

DustyVermonter
July 2, 2010, 01:20 PM
So stupid....sooooo sooooo stupid!!!!!!

The Expert
July 2, 2010, 05:57 PM
I'm not seeing the blatant "anti" bent of that article that seems so clear to others. Seems like the writer stuck to the facts and wasn't swooning over the worldview of either camp.

Just because an article does not openly endorse the gun right advocate position doesn't not mean that it defaults into the "anti" pile of propaganda.

Drthelongshot
July 2, 2010, 06:27 PM
By carrying concealed, a criminal is left wondering if his next victim is armed. This affords protection for everyone, armed or not. If we only carry open, he would be able to identify the safest (for him) prospect to ply his trade.

NavyLCDR
July 2, 2010, 06:53 PM
I'm not seeing the blatant "anti" bent of that article that seems so clear to others. Seems like the writer stuck to the facts and wasn't swooning over the worldview of either camp.

Just because an article does not openly endorse the gun right advocate position doesn't not mean that it defaults into the "anti" pile of propaganda.

I'm with you. I don't see much anti-gun in the column either. The column seems actually pretty worthless to me, anyway, but seems to be mostly just facts.



Got a "combat mindset"?
This struck me right off the bat. A "combat mindset?" Really? Is this now considered indicative of those who choose to own and carry a weapon?


You do understand the whole "combat mindset" quote in the article came from a company teaching a Utah permit course in Idaho, right? It's the "pro-gun" company that is claiming the "combat mindset" doodoo. Sounds like they are reaching out to gain the business of the mall-ninja wannabe crowd.

http://ericssoninvestigations.com/

Welcome to Ericsson Investigations

http://ericssoninvestigations.com/images/baghdad.gif
Todd conducting pre-mission training with the Iraqi Counter Terrorist Unit in a camp outside of Baghdad, Iraq in 2004

Ericsson Investigations now offers classes for the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit.

By attending the class you will obtain knowledge about:

* Laws and statutes of concealed carry
* Safety rules involved in gun handling
* The combat 'mind set'
* Mechanics and methods of carry and presentation
* Criminal & civil liability
* All legal requirements of concealed carry
* Weapon manipulation, safety, and cleaning procedures

In addition you will recieve:

* Fingerprint Cards
* A Photo-Copy of your Drivers License
* PassPort Photo
* All Paperwork needed for application

oldbear
July 3, 2010, 07:51 PM
“Another Anti-Gun, Anti-CCW Article”

What was anti-gun about the article? They were only reporting the facts, no opinion was offered by the author.

I'm not seeing the blatant "anti" bent of that article that seems so clear to others. Seems like the writer stuck to the facts and wasn't swooning over the worldview of either camp.

Just because an article does not openly endorse the gun right advocate position doesn't not mean that it defaults into the "anti" pile of propaganda.


Thanks, I thought I was missing something.

statelineblues
July 3, 2010, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by oldbear:
What was anti-gun about the article? They were only reporting the facts, no opinion was offered by the author.

While I agree the author didn't say anything specifically anti-gun, the tone and demeaner of her article was to leave the reader with the impression that anyone, regardless of backround or training, can get a Utah permit and use it throughout the country.
Such phrases as "wild West", "combat mindset", "widespread in Western states, where historic settlement saw justice dispensed at the end of a gun barrel" show the writer's bias.
Twisting words and phrases to project a certain concept can be just as effective as a direct statement.

NavyLCDR
July 3, 2010, 11:05 PM
Such phrases as "wild West", "combat mindset", "widespread in Western states, where historic settlement saw justice dispensed at the end of a gun barrel" show the writer's bias.

Apparently, "combat mindset" is required of CCW holders, according to Ericsson Investigations. http://ericssoninvestigations.com/

statelineblues
July 4, 2010, 10:23 AM
And yet, out of all the factors listed -

* Laws and statutes of concealed carry
* Safety rules involved in gun handling
* The combat 'mind set'
* Mechanics and methods of carry and presentation
* Criminal & civil liability
* All legal requirements of concealed carry
* Weapon manipulation, safety, and cleaning procedures

the writer chose to highlight "combat mind set" -

promises to teach laws, gun safety and "the combat 'mind set'".

grilledcheese
July 4, 2010, 11:38 AM
I know the term "combat mindset" is likely to frighten many people, but the idea behind it seems completely valid for defensive purposes, whether it pertains to the employment of firearms, batons, pepper spray, hand to hand techniques, threat avoidance, or even "tactical withdrawls". Being able to keep one's wits about them in a threatening situation, to me at least, is very much a "combat mindset", and something that every one of us would benefit from.




Jeffrey

oldbear
July 4, 2010, 09:18 PM
Statelineblues;

After reading article a second time the only reference I could find about the Wild West is the following, in quote box below. The author was only quoting a “self-described gun activist, not offering an editorial opinion.
Obama and all of them are just trying to take away our rights," said Salmon Mayor John Miller, a self-described gun activist. "I believe in guns. Idaho, Montana, all the Wild West states, we're not giving up our guns."
As for the “Combat mindset” I believe that was a quote from one of the parties offering firearm and CCW training.

The article does state that a Utah CCW permit is honored in 31 other states, as long as this is correct it is a fact not an opinion. So no bias.

oldbear
July 4, 2010, 09:28 PM
“where historic settlement saw justice dispensed at the end of a gun barrel"

Well it was, in the West and as well as much of the country in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Again sir fact stated not opinion given. In-fact the author even goes so far as to quantify her statement with the comment, “historic settlement.”

oldbear
July 4, 2010, 09:35 PM
“where historic settlement saw justice dispensed at the end of a gun barrel"

Well it was, in the West and as well as much of the country in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries. Again sir fact stated not opinion given. In-fact the author even goes so far as to quantify her statement with the comment, “historic settlement.”

Double post, sorry!

JHansenAK47
July 4, 2010, 09:48 PM
I'm all for gun ownership but I think there's no place for concealed carry laws. If you're going to carry a gun, wear it on your hip like a man. In the old west men didn't conceal their guns, they wore them openly. The only people with concealed guns were card sharps and crooks.
I think who ever wrote this crap should get a historically accurate account of the shoot out at the OK corral. Concealed carry in the old west especially by "gentleman" was commonplace.

oldbear
July 5, 2010, 08:45 AM
“I think who ever wrote this crap should get a historically accurate account of the shoot out at the OK corral. Concealed carry in the old west especially by "gentleman" was commonplace.”

Sir, it was my understanding that caring a weapon in the city of Tombstone was a violation of city ordinances. The Earp’s and Holiday used the pretext of disarming the Clanton’s and their associates to start/finish a fight that had been simmering for months. Is this incorrect? Thanks.:)

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