[RobW]

In 1573 the warlord Oda Nobunaga became shogun of almost all Japan. Upon his assassination a decade later, one of his leading officers, Toyotomi Hideyoshi ("Old Monkey Face"), took his place, and, determined to consolidate his control throughout the empire, sought to eliminate all private arms. On July 8, 1588, he issued his famous "sword hunt" edict: farmers were forbidden "to keep swords, short swords, spears, firearms and other military weapons." Were they allowed to keep such "unnecessary implements," the document continued, they would be tempted to "evade their taxes" or even "plot uprisings." Political spin was then applied: "The swords thus collected will not be wasted. They will be used as nails and bolts in the construction of a Great Image of Buddha."

Within two years the entire peasantry had been disarmed (although no great statue of Buddha was raised). The measures helped support the new barrier between farmer and warrior, so that the two most important social groups of society were differentiated not only economically, but also by social status, as symbolized by the wearing of swords.

Richard Cohen: "By the Sword" page 142, Random House, New York 2002

Why don't the sheeple get it?

[Hazwaste]

Guess it's like that old quote that says that they that do not know history are condemned to repeat it. Interesting post!

[moa]

Was it not true that if you were a peasant you basically had no rights and any person of the samurai class or higher could kill a peasant anytime the felt like it?

[shooten]

Hey, I've heard that before somewhere :). See below.

[El Tejon]

Rob, thanks much! I don't have that book (I know, wierd).

Put it on my Christmas list.:)

[moa]

Many people may not know this, but modern Japan is pretty close to a police state. Conviction rates in Japanese courts runs around 99.5% and higher. Reason may be that when someone is arrested they can be held for 28 days without being charged and "questioned". Then they can be re-arrested again and again and held for 28 days without charges, etc, etc.

Maybe that is why the confession rate is so high amoung Japanese "criminals".

Japanese police can come into a person's home a minimum of once a year and look around and question closely everybody who lives there. The Japanese police must keep files on all its citizens.

Death Row in Japanese prisons is unique too. The condemned never know when they will be executed. The condemned are never told until it actually happens. They can sit on Death Row for years before they are executed.

[RobW]

El Tejon,

it's not weird! I run over the book accidentially because I was a little foil-fencing in my distant youth. So, that's weird! The sub-title of the book is: "A History of Gladiators, Musketeers, Samurai, Swashbucklers, and Olympic Champions" and it is so well written, that I carry it around everywhere to read when I have a fiew minutes.

moa,

not only in Japan, but even until 1870 in Germany, the majority of the people were in bondage. An aristocrat could kill you with no consequence, you had to ask permission for marriage (and the aristocrat had the right of the first night with your new wife!), you had to ask to move somewhere else in his fifedom etc. etc., you were essentialy without any rights. If you could escape to a "free" city, and stay there for 1 year and 1 day, you were free, but there were other restrictions now.

As Hazwaste said, we are doomed if we don't learn from history. Are there still mandatory history classes in public school? And what do they teach?

[Standing Wolf]

Why don't the sheeple get it?

I don't mean to disillusion you, friend, but they do get it. They'd rather be Japanese-style disarmed peasants with fewer decisions to make than samurai with responsibilities and standards to uphold.

[El Tejon]

What's wierd is that I don't have a book cited on THR!:D

Changing that soon.:cool:

[Pendragon]

The nunchaku was originally a rice flail - many martial arts techniques and weapons came out of this law. The people had to learn to fight without weapons and make weapons out of ordinary things.


If you think that is bad, you should read about how they made and sharpened swords.

Swords were tested on prisoners - a good sword with a skilled swordsman could perhaps bisect 3 prisoners in one stroke.

Sufice it to say that culture was not one with a high regard for the individual.

[BowStreetRunner]

"""""Sufice it to say that culture was not one with a high regard for the individual""""""

indeed, and neither is the one the liberals are trying to hoist on us now
BSR

[agricola]

In 1573 the warlord Oda Nobunaga became shogun of almost all Japan. Upon his assassination a decade later, one of his leading officers, Toyotomi Hideyoshi ("Old Monkey Face"), took his place, and, determined to consolidate his control throughout the empire, sought to eliminate all private arms. On July 8, 1588, he issued his famous "sword hunt" edict: farmers were forbidden "to keep swords, short swords, spears, firearms and other military weapons." Were they allowed to keep such "unnecessary implements," the document continued, they would be tempted to "evade their taxes" or even "plot uprisings." Political spin was then applied: "The swords thus collected will not be wasted. They will be used as nails and bolts in the construction of a Great Image of Buddha."

Within two years the entire peasantry had been disarmed (although no great statue of Buddha was raised). The measures helped support the new barrier between farmer and warrior, so that the two most important social groups of society were differentiated not only economically, but also by social status, as symbolized by the wearing of swords.

The sword hunt must be viewed in the context of what Japan had undergone - almost a hundred years of civil war between the daimyo, with religious armies backing many sides and taking the field. Hideyoshi and his successor Tokugawa Ieyasu did restore a semblance of order to the chaos, an order that lasted the better part of three hundred years. The sword hunt was followed by measures (some of which are bizarre, like making the daimyo perform endless parades to and from Tokyo) which ensured loyalty and prevented rebellion.

Viewing it as being anti-"the individual" is a bit of a non-starter since its doubtful many Japanese (or indeed many in the West) of the time would have recognized "individuality" as being of importance, especially when peasants were involved.

[Balog]

An aristocrat could kill you with no consequence, you had to ask permission for marriage (and the aristocrat had the right of the first night with your new wife!)

Jus prima nocte wasn't as widely granted as you seem to believe. No cites off the top of my head, but you make it sound like it was an integral part of feudalism. It wasn't. Some even dispute whether it was a real practice.
BTW, is the correct spelling "prima nocte" or "primae noctis"? I've seen it both ways and my Latin dictionary is at home.
Swords were tested on prisoners - a good sword with a skilled swordsman could perhaps bisect 3 prisoners in one stroke.


It was my understanding that they tested them on corpses, not living prisoners?

Edit: for spelling and clarity.
Edit 2: to add question.

[agricola]

It was my understanding that they tested them on corpses, not living prisoners?

there are parts of the Hagakure that refer to children being made to cut down first dogs, then condemned men to "toughen them up":

Yamamoto Kichizaemon was ordered by his father Jin'-emon to cut down a dog at the age of five, and at the age of fifteen he was made to execute a criminal. Everyone, by the time they were fourteen or fifteen, was ordered to do a beheading without fail. When Lord Katsushige was young, he was ordered by Lord Naoshige to practice killing with a sword. It is said that at that time he was made to cut down more than ten men successively.

http://www.blackmask.com/olbooks/hagakuredex.htm

[RobW]

The sword hunt must be viewed in the context of what Japan had undergone - almost a hundred years of civil war between the daimyo, with religious armies backing many sides and taking the field.

I didn't know, that law abiding, armed peasants start civil wars. I had the (maybe false) impression, as it ALWAYS is started by power-hungry creatures in the government, arming their private armies.

Tokugawa Ieyasu did restore a semblance of order to the chaos, an order that lasted the better part of three hundred years.

Fine! Let's just suppress 95% of the "citizens", and all will fall in peace. No crime, no uprisings, no conquests. Just like Japan.

Balog: unfortunately it was. I don't know any conviction of an aristocrat, killing a bondsman. Vice versa there were a lot of cruel executions of a bondsman, not having even killed an aristocrat (e.g. Schinderhannes, Jennerwein et al.)

It is known that new sword blades in Japan at those times were tested on living "criminals".

[GSB]

Was it not true that if you were a peasant you basically had no rights and any person of the samurai class or higher could kill a peasant anytime the felt like it?

At least for some period of their feudal history, yes. If you accidentally bumped the scabbard of a samurai, that was an insult that could result in getting cut down where you stood, for instance.

There was even a practice (discouraged by the authorities, IIRC, but I don't know if any samurai ever got in actual trouble for it) of cutting down a random peasant to test the blade of a new sword. The practice became known as "sword testing murders". A more politically correct method of testing a sword was on prisoners (sometimes alive, usually dead if I recall).

[El Tejon]

Whether in Japan or the UK, disarming the peasantry is always for the "great good" and has nothing to do with the individual.