[critter]

Supposing you are in a situation similar to the one in the mentioned thread. If a LEO does confiscate a firearm from you for any reason, do you have the right to insist that he present you with a receipt showing the serial number, description of the firearm, etc? Otherwise, he might just 'forget' that he got it from you!!!

[Pilgrim]

Go ahead and ask for a receipt. If you get one, fine. If not, the next day go to the officer's department and ask for a copy of he report that documents the confiscation. If they have no record, report the firearm stolen and give the officer's name as the primary suspect.

Pilgrim

[Checkman]

Whenever I have confiscated a firearm I always give a reciept to the owner and then put it into the evidence vault. For safe keeping if nothing else. I don't care how nice the gun is it isn't worth my career.

A few months ago I personally returned three handguns to a couple of "alleged" drugdealers. The guns were legal (i.e. not stolen and not full auto etc.) and there was no reason that they couldn't have them back. I confiscated the weapons when I was searching their vehicle. I had a search warrant and did find drugs(Meth). The handguns were just a bonus. The firearms were returned after the case was resolved in court. It was part of a plea bargain.

Now this may run counter to some folks horror stories and/or their personal beliefs about the cops, but there it is.

[bogie]

Well, in St. Louis a few years back we had a few cops who got tagged for confiscating firearms, and then selling 'em.

[Checkman]

Then those guys were stupid and a disgrace to their badges. Hopefully they were prosecuted.

[Travis McGee]

Checkman,
Did you ever hear of cops keeping a confiscated/recovered small pistol for their own "drop gun," or is that just an urban myth?

http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/snakelogo.jpg

[Pilgrim]

Massad Ayoob wrote an article many years ago on the topic of "drop" guns or "throwdowns." He essentiallly said that unless a cop is prepared to murder everyone who knows he has it, the idea is doomed to failure.

Even if the officer can keep it secret from everyone he knows, there is always the possibility the officer will be injured and rendered unconscious. The officer's sergeant will become aware of this secret weapon when the hospital gives to him all the officer's equpment. Curious, the sergeant runs the numbers on the secret gun and finds it was stolen in another jurisdiction. Even more curious the sergeant submits the secret gun for ballistic testing and it turns out the gun was used in a homicide elsewhere. Now, what does the officer have to say about this?

Even if the officer manages to explain he had nothing to do with the theft of the gun or the murder, how does he explain why he has this gun in his possession? Especially in a jurisdiction that expects every handgun be registered and tracable to its owner. What is its purpose?

Finally, the presence of a gun determined to be a "throwdown" clouds the issue of whether an officer involved shooting was justified or not. Any attempt to alter the evidence is construed to be consciousness of guilt can be used to build a case of murder or manslaughter against the officer.

Ayoob in concluding his article explained the concept of throwdown guns is bad and doomed to failure.

Pilgrim

[Master Blaster]

Trooper charged in Pa. burglaries
State police officer allegedly broke into homes in uniform
By MICHAEL RUBINKAM
Associated Press
12/05/2003

PHILADELPHIA -- A Pennsylvania State Police trooper was charged with breaking into houses while in uniform and stealing money and prescription drugs, officials said Thursday.

The arrest of Trooper John Travis Layne, 31, comes a week after state police released a study showing that dozens of its troopers had been arrested over the past decade for crimes ranging from rape to disorderly conduct. Gov. Ed Rendell called the arrests "a problem" and vowed to fix it.

Layne, a nine-year veteran of the force, was charged with four counts each of burglary and criminal trespass and one count of attempted burglary after state police allegedly caught him in the act Wednesday. Officials said he is a suspect in other recent burglaries in Chester County.

Layne, who police said confessed to the burglaries, was suspended without pay. His commanding officer, Capt. Steven McDaniel, said he is likely to be fired pending the results of the criminal case and an internal investigation. He is free on unsecured bail.

"We are sworn not to swerve from the path of duty, but to obey the law and enforce it. In this case, he has chosen not to obey the law," McDaniel said Thursday. "We therefore will."

The investigation began Nov. 21 when a West Fallowfield Township police sergeant, responding to a burglary call, noticed a boot print where the door had been kicked in and recognized it as coming from a state trooper's boot.

By coincidence, the sergeant, Charles Wilmont, had been chatting with Layne just a few minutes earlier when he got the burglary call. Layne did not offer to assist, and when Wilmont saw the boot print he called the state police barracks in Avondale. Attention quickly focused on Layne, who spent eight years on patrol duty before transferring a year ago to a staff support role.

Investigators conducting surveillance on Layne on Wednesday morning allegedly saw him peering into the windows of one house, and entering another house through an unlocked garage door. Troopers later confronted Layne at the Avondale barracks and he admitted to the four burglaries and the attempted burglary, according to court documents.

Layne told police he was "looking for pain medication that he would then take for his own use," the documents said. In one burglary on Nov. 12, he allegedly stole medicine and $160 in wrapped quarters.

"His actions have had a profound effect on the members who are assigned to this station," McDaniel said.

Layne, of West Chester, has an unlisted phone number and could not be reached Thursday for comment. It could not be determined if he has an attorney.

A state police study released last week indicated that 82 troopers were arrested for felonies and misdemeanors, including aggravated assault, rape, bribery and incest, over the past nine years. Another 25 troopers were charged with summary offenses such as disorderly conduct and harassment.

The review came several months after a federal lawsuit filed against a former state trooper, now in prison for a variety of crimes against women and teenage girls, brought to light the extent of sexual-misconduct complaints filed against state police employees.

Rendell said last week that state police are taking steps to address the problems in the 4,300-trooper work force.

[Checkman]

Thanks to Pilgrim. We joke about the throw away piece at work, but the article by Ayoob hit the nail on the head. Perhaps there have been cops (bad ones in my opinion) who have carried a throw away gun, but it's a stupid idea. Of course I'm sure there are folks who will swear that it's factual. I remember reading a novel called Night Dogs about three years ago. It was written by an English professor who was a cop in Portland Oregon for a few years in the early seventies. In the novel a throw away piece plays a big part in the plot. Who knows maybe it was something that occurred many years ago, before the advent of computers, the information "revolution" and more sophisticated forensic technology.

Nowdays you're stupid to try such a thing. Also, in my opinion, cops really don't make the best criminals. We may know how they work and we may "Interact" with them frequently, but it dosen't mean we can do what they do. For some reason crooked cops leave more of a trail behind them. Harder to be mysterious I guess. A crooked cop is an idiot who can't decide which side he or she is on. Okay end of heated lecture.;)