Henry Rifles: is it true?


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Shane S.
July 1, 2010, 12:24 PM
So, I received a Henry rifle magazine in the mail today, and I noticed in the bottom left corner -Est.1862-2010- that is a lie. The original Henry rifle company was founded back the by Tyler Henry, but they are not the same, Tyler Henry became part of Winchester. The modern day Henry company started making Henry's in 1991. Correct me if Im wrong but Wikipedia says the have no relation.

And is it true that the receiver cover is just painted??
That doesn't sound like quality to me!

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FIVETWOSEVEN
July 1, 2010, 01:24 PM
Springfield Armory does that. The new company was founded in 1971 as I recall.

CraigC
July 1, 2010, 01:25 PM
The current Henry Repeating Arms Co. is in no way related to Benjamin Tyler Henry. They are simply cashing in on the famous name because it has no copyright protection and building a couple of similar "looking" (only to the uninitiated) rifles.

Their rimfire rifles do indeed have a zinc based alloy frame (i.e. pot metal) with a painted cover. The Golden Boy is similar with a brass plating. They are decent guns for the money but a far cry from the all steel Winchester 94/22 and Marlin 39.

ccsniper
July 1, 2010, 01:29 PM
wow, I am glad I saw this.

CraigC
July 1, 2010, 01:37 PM
PS, to use the name is misleading but to print "est. 1862-2010" on their packaging is an outright lie.

jimmyraythomason
July 1, 2010, 01:45 PM
How many nits can be picked out of this one?

JNewell
July 1, 2010, 01:46 PM
Going on memory here, but I'm pretty sure there never was a Henry Rifle Company. The corporate progression was, IIRC:

Volcanic Arms Co., which more or less fathered:

New Haven Arms Co. (OF Winchester) and the S&W company (Messrs. Smith and Wesson), and then:

New Haven Arms Co. became Winchester Repeating Arms Co.

Honoring BT Henry is a good touch but it is not historical, AFAIK.

Henry Rifles: is it true?
So, I received a Henry rifle magazine in the mail today, and I noticed in the bottom left corner -Est.1862-2010- that is a lie. The original Henry rifle company was founded back the by Tyler Henry, but they are not the same, Tyler Henry became part of Winchester. The modern day Henry company started making Henry's in 1991. Correct me if Im wrong but Wikipedia says the have no relation.

And is it true that the receiver cover is just painted??
That doesn't sound like quality to me!

BigWoolyBanjo
July 1, 2010, 02:52 PM
"but Wikipedia says..."

Now there's a good source for solid information...

rcmodel
July 1, 2010, 02:59 PM
Well, it was in this case.

It's true.

The presnt day Henry Arms never had anything in the slightest to do with B. Tyler Henry's rifles, designs, patents, or any company that made & sold them.

rc

1858
July 1, 2010, 03:28 PM
"but Wikipedia says..." Now there's a good source for solid information...

Perhaps Chuck Hawks obtained his information from Wikipedia too! :rolleyes:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/henry_goldenboy_rifles.htm

Their website and brochure are blatantly misleading but rather than address that directly why not blame Wikipedia or Benjamin Tyler Henry himself.

"Today, the Henry Repeating Arms Company, a descendant of the venerable gunmaker, makes its home in Bayonne, New Jersey."

http://www.henryrepeating.com/aboutus.cfm

What a crock ... but who cares ... I've never liked their rifles anyway. Despite desperately wanting a lever action in .454 Casull, even if the mob does offer one, I ain't gonna buy one ... they can FORGED ABOUD ID!!

:)

R.W.Dale
July 1, 2010, 03:49 PM
Perhaps Chuck Hawks obtained his information from Wikipedia too!

Yes because chuck Hawk's nose is absolutely clean when it comes to being as fastidious as possible to checking and only publishing the absolute FACTS

Amongst firearms enthusiasts "Chuck Hawks said" is if anything worse than "Wikipedia said"

JNewell
July 1, 2010, 03:58 PM
Right - Wikipedia is right, ChuckHawks is right. There is no connection at all, other than five random letters of the English alphabet that we recognize as a surname.

ArmedBear
July 1, 2010, 04:08 PM
The presnt day Henry Arms never had anything in the slightest to do with B. Tyler Henry's rifles, designs, patents, or any company that made & sold them.

To be fair, the present day Remington Arms Company never had anything in the slightest to do with what they sold before and during WW II, either, and Browning Arms Company was founded in 1927 -- JMB died in 1926.

It's best to judge a gun on its merits, not the name stamped on it. I'm a Model 39 guy, myself, but Henry's company name is not why.

1858
July 1, 2010, 04:11 PM
Yes because chuck Hawk's nose is absolutely clean when it comes to being as fastidious as possible to checking and only publishing the absolute FACTS. Amongst firearms enthusiasts "Chuck Hawks said" is if anything worse than "Wikipedia said"

So are you saying that the current Henry Rifle Company is a descendent of Benjamin Tyler Henry using the Merriam-Webster definition as shown below?

Main Entry: 1de·scen·dant
Variant(s): also de·scen·dent \di-ˈsen-dənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English dessendaunte, from Anglo-French descendant, from Latin descendent-, descendens, present participle of descendere
Date: circa 1555

1 : moving or directed downward
2 : proceeding from an ancestor or source

:)

swilli41
July 1, 2010, 04:29 PM
Perhaps Henry Arms should be named ERMA West. I believe Henry bought the tooling for their .22 lever action and .22 pump from the now defunct Erma in Germany. The two brands appear to be identical.

ArmedBear
July 1, 2010, 04:33 PM
Didn't Ithaca source lever guns from Erma, back when they also imported SKB shotguns?

Those shotguns are great, but not because they say "Ithaca" on them. The ones that say "SKB", "Weatherby", or "Orvis" are good, too.

1858
July 1, 2010, 04:43 PM
If you bother to read the Wikipedia article on the Herny rifle, you'll notice that a reference is sited. You'd better add American Rifleman to the Wikipedia/Chuck Hawks list of unreliable sources!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_rifle#cite_ref-American_Rifleman_2-1

"In 1973, Louis Imperato bought the firearms company of Iver Johnson and began making commercial versions of the M1 carbine. In 1993, Imperato started a factory in his native Brooklyn to manufacture .22 caliber rifles under the newly recreated name[3] of the Henry Repeating Arms Co. which are currently manufactured in Brooklyn, New York. The current company, not to be confused with the original Henry rifles,[3] does not produce the Civil War period firearm that this article defines. It produces lever action rifles that are more akin to later Marlin types."

[3] American Rifleman, May 2008; (Henry Repeating Arms) founder, p. 26.

Here's some information on Iver Johnson (from Wikipedia :rolleyes:)

"Iver Johnson died in 1895, and his sons took over the business. Frederick (born 10/2/1871), John (born 6/26/1876), and Walter (birthdate unknown), had vastly different levels of involvement in the company ranging from executive leadership to barely any involvement at all. They shepherded the company through a phase of expansion, as bicycle operations grew, then converted to motorcycle manufacturing and sales. They also saw the growth of the firearms business and the eventual restructuring of the company to focus on firearms and related business as they divested non-firearms concerns, such as the motorcycle business, in the face of growing firearms demand, World War I's armaments industry expansion, and other factors. As family ownership waned and outside investment via publicly traded stock and mergers/acquisitions/partnerships took hold, the company changed ownership and moved several times during its operation. The company eventually dropped "Cycle Works" from its moniker when that part of the business was shut down. The business successfully weathered the Great Depression (in part thanks to higher rates of armed robbery crimes, which helped maintain demand for personal firearms) and was buoyed by the dramatic increase in the market for arms leading up to and during World War II. As a result of changes in ownership, the company had the first of two major relocations in 1971 when it moved to New Jersey. It moved again to Jacksonville, Arkansas, and was jointly owned by Lynn Lloyd and Lou Imperato, who also owned the Henry brand name, before it finally ceased trading under its own name in 1993, at which time it was owned by American Military Arms Corp (AMAC)."

:)

1858
July 1, 2010, 05:00 PM
To be fair, the present day Remington Arms Company never had anything in the slightest to do with what they sold before and during WW II, either

This is a very different situation with a CLEAR pedigree that goes all the way back to Eliphalet Remington. The Remington plant in Ilion, NY is on the same site that was established in 1828 by Eliphalet Remington.

Henry Rifle Company's website reminds me of the myriad of Chinese companies making crappy $10 watches under old Swiss watch company names. They set up official looking websites with a history about the original company that is accurate. What they don't tell you, is that the original Swiss watch company went out of business more than 50 years ago and the name was sold to a Chinese company who now makes $10 watches but sells them on Ebay or similar places for $200. Suckers who search for information on those watches find websites showing MSRPs of $2,000 and can't believe that they're getting such a great deal.

Integrity is everything ... without it you have nothing!!

:)

Boba Fett
July 1, 2010, 05:15 PM
I checked Henry's site and found the following under their History page:

Today, the Henry Repeating Arms Company, a descendant of the venerable gunmaker...

Also, their manual has a Introduction page which says:
http://www.henryrepeating.com/pdf/henry_bigboy.pdf
Thank you for purchasing your new Henry Lever Action Rifle.We are proud to have crafted this rifle for you in the great tradition of Henry Repeating Arms Company which dates back to 1860 when the first effective, lever-action repeating rifle was developed by our founder, Benjamin Tyler Henry. We go to great efforts to provide the highest quality of design, craftsmanship, manufacture and function that was established over 140 years ago.


Perhaps someone should email them and ask if they are really a descendant of the original company since they are claiming to be.

ArmedBear
July 1, 2010, 05:25 PM
The Remington plant in Ilion, NY is on the same site that was established in 1828 by Eliphalet Remington.

That doesn't equal "integrity."

I prefer to buy rifles that I judge to be good rifles.

1858
July 1, 2010, 05:51 PM
That doesn't equal "integrity."

If you have to lie or mislead the public about your history then something is very wrong. Politicians do this all the time and we hold them accountable.

I prefer to buy rifles that I judge to be good rifles.

I guess the Marlin 1894CSS didn't make your list then.

:)

HPJeep
July 1, 2010, 05:58 PM
As Joseph Goebbels said "tell a lie often enough people will start to believe it." Eventually people will fall for Henrys marketing ploy.

ArmedBear
July 1, 2010, 05:58 PM
Marlin's 1894 is a "lie", too, in case you didn't know that. It's a more modern gun than its namesake. Marlin is, itself, a bit of a lie. It went out of business, and was bought for essentially nothing by the Kenna family, who re-started the company.

I have an 1894C. I'll probably get more 1894s. The "lie" hasn't had any impact on its function, or my satisfaction with it.

I own no Henry products, but again, I have other reasons for that. And I do agree with you that, if you have to lie, something is probably wrong.

But... Things you'll find in Remington's copy have sometimes made me cringe. Foremost among them: the 870 wasn't the "ball-bearing pump". That was the Model 31, its higher-end predecessor that's arguably even nicer than a Model 12, and unquestionably smoother than any 870. The 870 was called "tin-can pump" by fans of the 31, who were disgusted when the 870 replaced their beloved "ball-bearing" guns in the Remington lineup.

I have an 870, too; I just don't harbor delusions about what it is.:)

Lovesbeer99
July 1, 2010, 08:46 PM
Did the new compy buy rights of some kind? If they did that would entitle them to the firms history I believe. I'm not saying they did, I'm just asking.

Also, when did Henry move to Bayonne? I thought they were in Brooklyn.

NWCP
July 1, 2010, 08:49 PM
I was watching a youngster at the gun range a few weeks back shooting his birthday present. It was a Henry .22LR. He looked to be having the time of his life and I'm sure wouldn't have cared less about the pedigree of his rifle. I wouldn't own one, but then I'm not an 11 year old shooting his first rifle. Both he and his father had a good time at the range so the 'cheap' Henry is serving its purpose. Will it last a lifetime like our Winchesters, or Marlins? Maybe, maybe not, but it has made one young kid a shooting enthusiast and that counts for something. Could be it's all dad could afford at the time. Whatever the case it made a memorable day for one father and son. That's pretty cool in my book.

oneounceload
July 1, 2010, 08:53 PM
Wow, if everyone thinks all these brands stay exactly the same, look again - how many have Woolrich, Danner, L.L. Bean or any of a hundred names that were US-made and family-owned and are now Chinese made and some corporate conglomerate.

It's called MARKETING, and why you see so many knock-offs for name-brand products, gun industry included.

Original family members sell off the company, including the name.....Look at the British gun trade and you'll see even more of that, folks thinking they're buying some hand-crafted gun made by gunmakers with 100's of years of experience, only to find it was machine-made in Italy or elsewhere and "finished" in England

chicharrones
July 1, 2010, 09:41 PM
I was watching a youngster at the gun range a few weeks back shooting his birthday present. It was a Henry .22LR. He looked to be having the time of his life and I'm sure wouldn't have cared less about the pedigree of his rifle. . . . Whatever the case it made a memorable day for one father and son. That's pretty cool in my book.

+1

I bought my Marlin 39 new in the early '90s with a low income job since I was still in my 20s. If there had been anything other than Marlin, Winchester, or Browning available (brand new), I would have looked at it. I'm pretty dang sure if a half price Henry would have been around, I would have bought it instead.

Hoppes Love Potion
July 2, 2010, 12:39 AM
I have a Henry and like it a lot - it's a heck of a good shooter for the money. It does have a painted alloy receiver cover instead of a blued steel one, but the cover is impressively strong and heavy. I have no complaints about the build-quality. This same design has been in use for about 50 years, in rifles by Henry, Ithaca, and Erma.

I agree that the ad copy is deceptive, especially stuff like "est. 1862-2010". I understand why they've "adopted" the Henry name, but they went too far with some of the claims. This is something I really don't understand because they make an honest product, and they have outstanding customer service.

1858
July 2, 2010, 01:02 AM
Marlin's 1894 is a "lie", too, in case you didn't know that. It's a more modern gun than its namesake.

If you look at Marlin's website, they don't hide the truth about the company's history.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/about/history.asp

When describing the 1894 that you say is a "lie", they state the following ...

"Built in the tradition of one of Marlinīs oldest lever-action designs, the Model 1894 is an elegant carbine chambered for pistol calibers."

I don't see Marlin lying about anything. I own five Marlins ... two 1894s and three 1895s, and I'll be adding another '94 soon. It doesn't bother me at all that the modern iterations of the '94 and '95 are based on the 336. They still share many of the salient features of the original '94, but are without question superior versions, and that's a good thing in my book. Marlin is one of the best company's I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with and I support them by buying their products.

:)

conhntr
July 2, 2010, 08:59 AM
My Henry 22lr shoots very accurate and cycles 100%. However the "blueing" on barrel is very thin and rusts very easy. The black paint on the reciever chips and looks really ugly (similar to the grip on my single-six). If I was in the market again I would buy a similar priced savage or marlin bolt gun and if I needed a lever would step up to the marlin

SaxonPig
July 2, 2010, 09:36 AM
Is it possible that the current Henry bought the rights to the Henry name? A trade name and the rights to use it can be bought and sold and if they paid for it they can claim connection back to the creation of the marque.

bigfatdave
July 2, 2010, 10:10 AM
Lots of wharrgarble about the use of the "Henry" name, not a lot of rational discussion of the quality of (present-day) Henry products.

Quite simply, Henry Repeating Arms puts out a pretty good rifle for the price, keeps them in stock at the shops, and offers some exemplary customer service & product support. I'm quite happy with my Henry (H001L lever carbine (http://henryrepeating.com/h001l_levercarbine.cfm)) for what it is, a small lightweight plinker that can take a modest optic if desired.
If it had a better or more easily changed front sight and a peep rear, it would be perfect ... if I decide the budget finish on the receiver cover is unacceptable it isn't hard to refinish, and any mechanical troubles are covered by the factory, although the materials are rather over-engineered for a gun in .22lr.

I suppose people need something to get worked up about, but Henry has a long line of satisfied customers, check the Henry sub-forum over on rimfirecentral, you'll find a great deal of praise from people who buy guns to shoot and enjoy them, and very few complaints about the name stamped on the side of those pot-metal receivers.

Art Eatman
July 2, 2010, 10:20 AM
Okay. Leave the poor old horse alone. He 'bout daid...

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