It sure seemed odd to me...


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Joshua M.
July 3, 2010, 04:50 PM
It sure seemed odd to me that while attending a basic handgun instructors class, in Cleveland , that they strongly express the "NO Live Ammo In The Classroom" rule. Now I am not one for breaking rules:evil:, but I found it ironic that I as a trained, competent and certified ccl holder was expected to forfeit my right while attending a class. I didn't ask the instructor about whether or not she even ment our concealed guns, as I kinda like the don't know, don't care attitude. I find myself kinda looking the other way when entering a store/ establishment while carrying, unless going into a courthouse, cop shop, or somewhere there is a metal detector, for the simple reason of I bet the "bad guys" don't care about the signs. Does this make me a bad guy? My thoughts are if I carry Concealed, then no one will know, until the time comes it is needed, then I wander what the consequnces are...I was just wandering, and rambling ...your thoughts?

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Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 3, 2010, 04:55 PM
They don't even need a metal detector. If someone watches you with infrared binoculars, they can see through your clothes and no matter where your weapon is hidden, they will see it.

So, don't be so sure that no one else will know, because they can!

Perhaps in the class they don't want some war to start.
LOL

yeti
July 3, 2010, 05:05 PM
It's a safety issue, lower the odds of live ammunition being in a classroom where there is likely to be a good deal of gun handling and the chances of an AD/ND also tend to be reduced. For the same reason it is advisavle to do dry fire practice as far removed from live ammunition as practical. No ammo no bang.

OcelotZ3
July 3, 2010, 05:35 PM
Not expressing any disagreement with the policy, just wondering if this is an NRA policy or location-dependent?

Nushif
July 3, 2010, 06:04 PM
It was the same during my class. Maybe it's normal for NRA instructors?

bannockburn
July 3, 2010, 07:11 PM
It was also the rule at my CCW class. We all brought ammo, but it was to be left in our vehicles until we went to the range. Seemed like a prudent safety precaution to me, as we did have our guns in the classroom. The instructor was NRA certified as well.

ozarkgunner
July 3, 2010, 07:31 PM
The CCW class I took in Missouri was taught by two local LEO's. Weapons or ammo were not brought into the classroom and shooting range until the second day of the class, and actual shooting was going to happen. And then we still waited the second day until it was time to go to the range to get our weapons and ammo.

Arkansas Paul
July 3, 2010, 08:06 PM
Sorry, but I don't have a problem with this. You did say it was a basic handgun instruction course. That means that most of the people taking it didn't even possess the basic knowledge and understanding of handgun safety. You don't give a room full of inexperienced people weapons and live ammo BEFORE they understand the basic principles of safety and are familiar with handguns. You do it after.

I'm all about teaching new people to shoot and introducing our wonderful pastime to all who are interested. But safety comes first. First you learn gun safety, then you get to demonstrate it.

lawson4
July 3, 2010, 08:29 PM
Yes, it's an NRA requirement.

Rick

Nushif
July 3, 2010, 08:32 PM
I don't think anyone here is lamenting the rule. the first gun class I went to they even stuck little orange wooden bars through the actions.

docpadds
July 3, 2010, 08:38 PM
We do not allow any complete ammunition in the building during our Basic Pistol or even instructor classes (I say completed because we have a full reloading room for those classes and all the supplies that needs).

No Live Ammo is part of the NRA requirements, heck its on every few pages of our instructor guides.

There is absolutely no need for it to be there during teaching, we have many guns for people to handle and we do our best to reduce it to the smallest possible chance of an issue, this is one of several steps we take.

Now on range night its different, students can bring their gun, we check it in and stick it on the rack for them to use on their turn, but even there when we are the ones who are responsible we take steps to isolate the ammo and guns and control their exposure.

Fact is we dont know what your level of competence is, we dont know how safe you are etc... i have seen unsafe handling by many an instructor let alone Basic Pistol student, so reducing the chances in every class is what we do.

Old Fuff
July 3, 2010, 08:41 PM
In the first CCW class I went through in Arizona, NO AMMUNITION was permitted in the classroom because the instructor was faced with everything from highly experienced to some that had never fired a gun. There was no pressing reason to have ammunition until the classroom instruction was over, and the class moved on to the shooting range. The rule is not only necessary, it makes good sense.

I would observe that people aren't supposed to be going around with loaded concealed weapons until after they get a permit or license.

Shadow 7D
July 3, 2010, 11:28 PM
Its a major safety issue, and points to a class that is concerned about the students and their liability, quite simply, much like the no ammo on the cleaning bench. The point is to prevent a ND (it's not an accident, and fully preventable). Take it this way, do you really want the guy or gal, who this is their first gun handling class, or even a seasoned shooter like you, to pick up the wrong mag, and put a hole in what ever they were pointing at, while do X exercise.

Jim Watson
July 4, 2010, 12:09 AM
A few years ago, an instructor shot a police cadet with a gun that mysteriously got loaded in a classroom exercise. I agree with empty in class, loaded on the range.

Trebor
July 4, 2010, 01:32 AM
The NRA rule is "NO live ammo in the classroom." That means NONE AT ALL, on anyone, instructor or student or guest.

It's a safety rule: In a class you are likely to be handling firearms, demonstrating function and possibly dry-firing. While the NRA "Three Rules of Gun Safety" should still be followed, the "No live ammo" is an additional safety rule for the classroom setting designed to add an extra layer of safety.

To anyone who would ask, "Why is this needed?" just look at the incidents over the years of deaths and injuries caused by negligent discharges in classroom settings. This includes both police training and "civilian" training. Heck, there were two instances of INSTRUCTORS shooting students in the classroom that made the news in the last year or so alone.

(I was told the instructor involved in the incident in Michigan lost his instructor cert as a result, as well he should. Don't know the details on the other incident, but I bet the same thing happened).

For the reloading class, where students are making live ammo as part of the class, the rule is tranposed to "No FIREARMS" instead. The idea is that if you are making live ammo in a classroom setting, by keeping the firearms out, you are preventing accidents.

I can understand why some people might not "get" the "No live ammo in the classroom" rule, but it is needed, as past incidents have shown.

orionengnr
July 4, 2010, 01:47 AM
Same in our TX CHL class.

The people running the class have no idea what your qualifications or abilities might be. The others in your class might be significantly less trained/qualified than you are.

Don't take it personally.

VA27
July 4, 2010, 01:48 AM
It's the same for LE. No ammo in the classroom for firearms related classes. When we do force on force or simmunitions training, no 'real' ammo and no blades. Before entering the training area all participants are swept with a hand-held metal detector. If you leave the area for any reason you get swept again before re-entering. Any kind of firearm 'oopsy' is bad ju-ju. :D

orionengnr
July 4, 2010, 01:55 AM
Same in our TX CHL class.

The people running the class have no idea what your qualifications or abilities might be. The others in your class might be significantly less trained/qualified than you are.

Don't take it personally.

Sunray
July 4, 2010, 04:41 AM
"...forfeit my right..." You're not forfeiting a right. You're unloading for safety's sake.
A classroom is no place for live ammo, no matter what the level of training. Think about it. You don't know me, anymore than I know you. Do you trust my skills? Should I trust your skills?
"...police training..." Lots of stupidity goes on there too. Cops(not always regular street cops.) have been shot and killed, up here, by other cops screwing around with loaded firearms while waiting for training. Not always just during training either.

CajunBass
July 4, 2010, 09:40 AM
You can always leave you know. You might have to accept the consequences, but you can leave.

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