[TeamPrecisionIT]

I am trying to pull from the collective minds in here if anyone has had good luck with getting good loads from the same powder in both 9mm Luger in particular 124 gr and .233, particularly 69gr and up loads. I was thinking of giving Titegroup a shot but figured I would if anyone else here had good luck with a powder I may be overlooking.

Damian

[Jim Watson]

No.
Not remotely possible.
Read the manuals.
As R. Buckminster Fuller said, simplify as much as possible, BUT NO MORE.

[Walkalong]

Yep. Totally different apps requiring very different powders.

Any good manual, or even some online data, along with a burn rate chart, will make that abundantly clear.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

I did read and saw that, I just thought I would try and see if some experimentation done by you guys may have yielded something that isn't in print just yet. Sorry to stir up the hornet's nest!

Damian

[Buzzard]

Its not a hornet's nest, just an impossible task. When I tried downsizing from... well, too many powders (hehe) to a more manageable number I hit that wall a couple times. Just read your manuals and consult the chart so you'll stay out of trouble.

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html <- burn rate chart, has a link to a PDF version.

[Redneck with a 40]

IMR-4895 for rifle and Unique or Universal for pistol, those two will cover just about all you're bases.:)

[Walkalong]

You can download .223 with a couple of different pistol powders, but it is impossible to get anywhere near max velocities with one. No powder suited to .223 will work at all in 9MM.

The answers fit the question.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

There are times when I really hate the internet, but it is a wonderful tool - just not for social purposes. I should not have put an exclamation point on my sentence because I can see how it can come across as being on the defensive. Thank you for the clarity though, gents, and I won't do it. I just really need to figure out my 'loads' and figured I would run an idea by you guys.

Damian

[Justin]

I run Benchmark for .223 and Titegroup for my 9mm loads. Both powders work very well.

[918v]

Blue Dot can be used in both the 9mm and the 223 with reduced (2/3 throttle) loads.

[A and O]

It indeed would be an interesting read for somebody (Not Me!) to compile a small book on what could be done in in a bind (Emergency, SHTF scenario) using common reloading bench items. IE: SR Primers in a SP situation etc...

The OP's question is legit and so far so are the answers. The problem with doing what he asks is that it opens a can of worms that would cause problems if not confusion down the road. Safety should be issue #1 for any reloader.

What the OP asks can only be answered correctly IMHO after many years of loading experience and once you figure out what could be done you realize you would never do it except in a life threatening bind.

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO you can get by with 2 pistol powders and possibly 2 rifle powders if you absolutely have to but I think that is as lean as I would go.

I mostly use 3 pistol powders, W231, HS-6 and W296 but I am currently using a total of 9 pistol powders.

For rifle powders my favorites are H335, H4895, H4350 and H4831 but again I am currently using a total of 8 rifle powders, 10 if you both IMR and H 4350 and 4895.

There's really no reason to settle for a powder that doesn't give you the best results possible just to keep the powder count down. There are many who try but I have no idea why???

[LotI]

Trail Boss. :rolleyes:

You won't get enough of it into either to cause any harm...you might get 800fps out of both if you're lucky.

[MichaelK]

If you look in Lyman's manual it lists several cast bullet loads in .223 that use powders as fast as IMR 700X. Please understand though that any powder considered fast enough for pistol use is way TOO FAST for rifle use.

As 918v mentioned though you can use SMALL charges of pistol powders in .223. About 7.0 grains of 700X will produce about 45-50k CUP in .223, but you will only be getting slightly more than 2000 fps. It is low velocity, but it is still HIGH pressure. I've read other posts from authors that used 700X for making jacketed bullet light loads to shoot in their .223 rifle.

The Lyman manual is on sale this month at Midway, so you can pick this resource up for 18$. You can view it at...
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=217655

[918v]

I use 12-13grs of Blue Dot in my 6mm PPC to get .4" groups at 100 yards. The recoil was so light I could see the bullets impacting through the scope.

The charges are not really small. They take-up 60-70% of case capacity. But if you wanna do this with faster powders, you will, of course, have to use less powder. The beauty of BD is that you can't doublecharge the case and the accuracy is spectacular in any bottlenecked round you choose, as long as the rifle is capable.

[Ky Larry]

You can get by having 2 powders for 9mm and .223 (AA#2 and AA-2230 for example) but I don't know of any single powder that would even approch the potential of either round. Last year I counted the different powders I had on hand. I had 8 pistol powders and 9 rifle powders so I understand why you'd like to simplify and stream line. You could just stick to Unique and IMR-4064 and get good results for about any caliber but it probably wouldn't give the best results.

[MichaelK]

I use 12-13grs of Blue Dot in my 6mm PPC to get .4" groups at 100 yards. The recoil was so light I could see the bullets impacting through the scope.

The charges are not really small. They take-up 60-70% of case capacity. But if you wanna do this with faster powders, you will, of course, have to use less powder. The beauty of BD is that you can't doublecharge the case and the accuracy is spectacular in any bottlenecked round you choose, as long as the rifle is capable.
Hello 918v. I might want to try this in my .223 bolt. I'd like a lite load in the .22 Hornet class for dealing with our ground squirrels, but don't want the noise and recoil of full power .223 loads.

I was going to start with 700X and 40 grain hollowpoints, but I also have lots of Blue Dot that I could experiment with. It's my understanding that 60% of case capacity will produce 50,000 CUP with Blue Dot. Have you tried you Blue Dot load in .223 yet?

[Walkalong]

Clark swears by Blue Dot in .223. Maybe he will post. I have shot 700X in .223, as well as .22 Hornet.

[Eb1]

Maybe Trail Boss? You will not get full power loads from .223, but I bet it could be used. I am sure you can use Trail Boss in anything. Don't know, I would go to IMR's site and read up on it.

[BeerSleeper]

any powder that can do both will not be optimum for either.

The only way you will find one single powder that works well in a handgun and a long gun will be if the long gun is a shotgun.

[Hondo 60]

According to Hodgdon's website

For .223 Remington
Minimum Maximum
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
55 GR. HDY FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .224" 2.200" 3.1 1064 4,000 CUP

and I know it works in 9mm

90 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.010" 4.7 1239 25,700 CUP 5.0 1305 30,000 CUP
95 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.020" 4.7 1241 28,500 CUP 5.0 1298 32,000 CUP
100 GR. SFIRE Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.140" 3.6 1097 24,700 PSI 4.0 1174 31,400 PSI
100 GR. SPR FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.050" 4.7 1234 28,300 CUP 5.0 1289 30,300 CUP
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.100" 3.9 1075 25,800 CUP 4.3 1151 30,500 CUP
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.125" 4.5 1135 29,500 CUP 4.8 1158 30,500 CUP
125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.125" 3.6 1002 22,900 CUP 4.0 1096 30,400 CUP
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.090" 4.1 1069 27,300 CUP 4.4 1136 30,600 CUP
147 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.100" 3.2 855 22,500 CUP 3.6 929 27,500 CUP

[ArchAngelCD]

I would hardly call 1064 fps with only 4000 psi a rifle round. That sounds like a handgun round to me...

[918v]

It's my understanding that 60% of case capacity will produce 50,000 CUP with Blue Dot. Have you tried you Blue Dot load in .223 yet?

I haven't tried it in a .223 because it won't cycle an AR reliably and I don't have a manual .223 bolt-gun.

According to Quick load, a 60% charge of BD (12grs) under a 40gr bullet will produce 2750 FPS @ 28000 PSI in a 20" barrel.

[Hondo 60]

I would hardly call 1064 fps with only 4000 psi a rifle round. That sounds like a handgun round to me...

I agree & wouldn't use it, even though I do use titegroup for my handguns.
I use Varget for .223

But the OP asked if it is possible, so I gave a factual answer.
And it IS listed under "Rifle" :neener:

[rscalzo]

Varget - match loads
WC844 (H335 equivalent) - plinking loads

[Hondo 60]

Varget - match loads
WC844 (H335 equivalent) - plinking loads

I don't want to hi-jack the thread, but what's the difference?

Why WC844/H335 for plinking?

[Jim Watson]

Ball powder, meters well, saves time weighing and adjusting when cranking out quantity ammo for tin cans or prairie dogs.

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not crazy about Varget in the .223. I would rather use H335 or H4895. (depending upon the bullet weight) As for using a ball powder for cranking out ammo fast, I have to agree but I wouldn't limit the use of H335 to target or plinking ammo alone. I find it to be very accurate when loading 50-55gr bullets in the .223. H335 is my favorite powder for loading a 52gr MatchKing and 55gr Blitz or GameKing bullet for my bolt action .223.