M1 Carbine: Wolff or USGI Recoil Spring?


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Maverick223
July 6, 2010, 12:13 PM
My M1 Carbine has been failing to go completely into battery a few times lately, so I believe it is the recoil spring. Ironically it only seems to occur when someone else is shooting it (limp shouldering? :p), but I am loosing faith in the old carbine, so I believe a replacement is in order. Normally I would go straight to Wolff for a XP spring, but I have heard that the M1 can have difficulty with ejection when these are used. There are also new USGI springs available, so I have a decision to make.

Does anyone have experience with the Wolff spring, and if so, has it been a good or bad one?

This thread seems a bit boring so I figured I would throw in a photo...photos are always a good thing:

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Maverick223_album/IMG_4587.jpg

:)

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shootr
July 6, 2010, 12:57 PM
Dunno about springs, but mighty nice looking carbine there!

rondog
July 6, 2010, 01:16 PM
I can't speak of their carbine springs, but Wolff has a reputation of offering the best springs in the gun biz. I'd imagine it would be a safe bet. Might as well get a kit to replace them all. Trigger spring will require a special tool. Get more info about all things M1 carbine on the CMP forums.

Maverick223
July 6, 2010, 01:39 PM
Thank you for the compliment, shootr, and the information, rondog.

:)

Trebor
July 6, 2010, 04:24 PM
I'd go with a new Wolf spring, but I'd get a standard power spring and not an extra power spring.

I believe Wolf makes standard power carbine springs. If not, then I'd go with a GI spring. Extra power springs often cause problems so I don't understand why they are popular.

Maverick223
July 6, 2010, 04:37 PM
I do not see standard springs listed in Wolff's catalogue, so I assume they have never made, or have discontinued, them. The more I think about it, the more I believe that you are right...JE Browning (JM Browning's brother), and the folks at Winchester that finished his work, designed the carbine right to begin with; when operating as it should, there is little room left for improvement on those old carbines.

:)

TIMC
July 6, 2010, 06:34 PM
I have an aftermarket carbine. A few years ago I bought a GI bolt kit and a set of wolff springs for it: she sloots lime new again. You can't go wrong with wolff springs.

IQ45
July 6, 2010, 06:38 PM
I replaced all of the springs in my dad's with the Wolff kit. She functions flawlessly. Would like to get a different follower for the factory mag so the bolt stays open after the last round. Wonder if some of the ejection problems others have may be magazine related?

Maverick223
July 6, 2010, 06:47 PM
I have an aftermarket carbine. A few years ago I bought a GI bolt kit and a set of wolff springs for it: she sloots lime new again.If it is a Universal Carbine, then that doesn't apply, they use a dual recoil spring system that was designed much weaker than the single spring system of the original USGI pattern carbine. I do however appreciate your input and advice, nonetheless.

Wonder if some of the ejection problems others have may be magazine related?Absolutely, in my experience most issues are magazine related...mine on the other hand are not. All my magazines are good quality USGI or new Korean manufacture and are in good working order.

I use magazines with the BHO (bolt hold open) follower on my primary defense 15rnd magazine, as well as my 30rnd "plinker" magazines. The 30s came with the BHO follower installed, I robbed the one for the 15 rounder out of a 5rnd magazine that IMHO doesn't need it. FWIW, I have the 5rnd magazine for use as a hunting magazine, should I take a recoil shy individual hunting.

:)

Maverick223
July 7, 2010, 04:00 PM
BUMP for more input...

:)

rondog
July 7, 2010, 04:55 PM
Well, I just read a similar thread somewhere else, and the recommendations there leaned towards using new USGI recoil springs only. Seems a lot of the aftermarket recoil springs for carbines are "new and improved stronger springs", and they tend to cause stovepiping of the empty cases. Soooo, perhaps a Wolff might not be the best idea, unless it's USGI spec. and not an extra strength spring.

M1key
July 7, 2010, 05:47 PM
Replaced my GI spring with a Wolff extra power one several years ago--for more reliable functioning.

I shoot factory Winchester HPs or warm reloads with H110 and SP bullets. Function is 100%.

Maverick223
July 7, 2010, 06:33 PM
Seems like it is a pretty even split. I'm waffling back and forth, about the time I petty well have my mind made up, someone makes me question the decision. I might just have to get one of each for testing...but alas I haven't found a retailer that offers both.

:)

TIMC
July 7, 2010, 11:28 PM
I have an aftermarket carbine. A few years ago I bought a GI bolt kit and a set of wolff springs for it: she sloots lime new again.

If it is a Universal Carbine, then that doesn't apply, they use a dual recoil spring system that was designed much weaker than the single spring system of the original USGI pattern carbine. I do however appreciate your input and advice, nonetheless.

I beg to differ but it does apply. A GI bolt kit will work in the Universal the only difference is 2 recoil springs on the Universal instead of one on the GI and Wolff does sell them for the GI carbine too, they even have extra power springs available. So to answer your question; yes Wolff springs are really good.

greyling22
July 7, 2010, 11:28 PM
gi spring's 5 bucks at fulton http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 01:07 AM
I beg to differ but it does apply.If I came off as a smart-a$$ that was not my intention, I really do appreciate the input. I was just saying that they are not the same, so because one works well doesn't mean the other will do likewise.

Thank you for the info greyling22, FA is likely where I will purchase a USGI spring if I go that route.

:)

nathan
July 8, 2010, 01:15 AM
GO for Wolff Springs.

CZguy
July 8, 2010, 06:53 AM
I'd put in a new USGI spring. But then I'm the kind of person who doesn't fix what isn't broken. ;)

This thread seems a bit boring so I figured I would throw in a photo...photos are always a good thing:


I agree here is a 1943 Underwood.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1CarbineII.jpg

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 03:34 PM
Nice looking carbine CZguy, now I am starting to lean back towards the GI spring. It's cheaper (not that cost is a big issue here), has worked for decades, and is about as close as you can come to a sure thing.

:)

Dave Markowitz
July 8, 2010, 03:41 PM
I have 3 GI Carbines, all with Wolff extra power recoil springs. All run like tops.

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 05:19 PM
Just to make the question a bit more difficult, I removed and measured my current recoil spring. It clocks in right at 10in. long. It appears that this is the minimum length. New USGI springs are reported to vary from 10.25in. to 10.75in. in length; does anyone know the length of a new Wolff spring?

:)

Orlando
July 8, 2010, 05:51 PM
Wolff extra power Op Rod springs "may" cause short stroking in a Garand.
Personally I would just go with a USGI Spring

Is rifle clean and properly lubed?
Gas piston free?
What ammo are you using?

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 05:54 PM
Too late...I just placed the order for a Wolff. I went to checkout on the FultonArmory and decided that I didn't want to pay $10.00 shipping for a $5.00 spring. Wolff shipped their $8.00 spring for $4.00, now that's more like it. Worse case scenario I should be able to snip 1 or two coils off the spring to ensure proper function.

:)

Orlando
July 8, 2010, 06:01 PM
Its alos possibleif the bolt is gummed up inside the extractor isn't going over the cartridge rim so the bolt isn't closing and is staying out of battery.
Just something else to consider

bigfatdave
July 8, 2010, 06:02 PM
Wolff:
US M1 CARBINE, RIFLE SERVICE PAK 17.99
US M1 CARBINE, XP RECOIL SPRING Pak of 1 8.49

Fulton Armory:
Recoil Spring, New, G.I. 4.95

Don't take this the wrong way, but you might be over-thinking this one.
Why not buy both and do some experimenting?

Orlando
July 8, 2010, 06:05 PM
I wouldnt worry to much about which spring you bought but would check the other things I suggested. May not be the spring at all or a combination of the spring and other issues

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 06:06 PM
Another thing does the firing pin move freely?Yep, I just jiggled it and the firing pin was free, as is the gas piston (which has never been cleaned...at least not by me). It seems that everything is good (unless I am wrong about it being a free-floating firing pin), and honestly the spring isn't too bad, but I like to catch things early.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you might be over-thinking this one.
Why not buy both and do some experimenting?Probably am, I usually do (it's the engineer in me). I would buy both, but can't find a retailer that offers both for sale, and don't want two separate orders. I'll get the USGI one if I have problems with the Wolff (after snipping coils as needed...if needed). No biggie, I am temporarily relieving the M1 Carbine of its HD duties until this is sorted out. Looks like I will just have to "make due" with only a Saiga-12, M17S, and VZ.58 for long gun defensive service (of course with others in "emergency reserve"). :p

Orlando
July 8, 2010, 06:12 PM
Yes pin should be free floating
Wolf ammo is underpowered , and can cause issues

Maverick223
July 8, 2010, 06:15 PM
I haven't used wolf, only Win. WB and my handloads; which are various 100-110gr projectiles with 15.5gr of H110, so they are on the high end, but within military cartridge specifications.

Thanks again for all the help guys! :)

Maverick223
July 16, 2010, 07:29 PM
Brief range report: I was in a rush to install & test it and in the process I only got off about 5rnds before the rain began to come down, so take this with a spoonfull of salt, but the new Wolff spring didn't do so hot. First two rounds fired and ejected, but the bolt didn't close, ran like a watch for the final 3 or 4. Perhaps it just needed to settle in a bit, but that isn't the result I was hoping for. I did break it down again and oil it good when I got back home, so perhaps that is the culprit. I will have to do additional testing tomorrow...weather permitting (and it looks like rain for a week :().

:)

CZguy
July 17, 2010, 12:33 AM
but the new Wolff spring didn't do so hot. First two rounds fired and ejected, but the bolt didn't close, ran like a watch for the final 3 or 4.

I'm not optimistic that it will shoot any better after it's had a brief break in period and oiling. It should run well from the first shot.

I had a similar experience several years ago with a CZ PO1. After reading on various forums how they just had to have a slightly overpowered Wolff spring to run well, I bought one and installed it. I had similar results to yours, plus it became pretty darn hard to pull the slide back.

I learned my lesson, and now stick to factory recommend spring weights. :o

I grudgingly have to admit that some engineers know what they're doing. :scrutiny:

Maverick223
July 17, 2010, 12:57 AM
I'm not optimistic that it will shoot any better after it's had a brief break in period and oiling. It should run well from the first shot.That's what I was thinking, but the final few rounds did well. It has been, uh, well broken in over the past 3wars (from what I can tell) and the last 65+ years. I was in a hurry to test, so I didn't oil it, but the raceways, et cetera were lubricated.

I had similar results to yours, plus it became pretty darn hard to pull the slide back. For further clarification, it the rifle wasn't difficult to charge and seemingly had too little spring compression as the empties extracted/ejected fine, but the fresh cartridge got hung up on the feed ramp. FWIW HPs will feed from my carbine (I know that some folks have trouble with them), and these are SP, which always seemed to feed well.

I grudgingly have to admit that some engineers know what they're doing.Oh BTW, i'm an engineer. :D

CZguy
July 17, 2010, 10:54 AM
Normally I wouldn't say this, but this time I just can't resist.

Oh BTW, i'm an engineer.

I surmised that...........when you put the wrong spring in. :D :neener:

Time will tell..............how's the weather, can you shoot it today?

Maverick223
July 17, 2010, 11:44 AM
Time will tell..............how's the weather, can you shoot it today?Looking good so far, I plan on giving it shot this afternoon.


I surmised that...........when you put the wrong spring in.Hey, easy there... :o
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He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

>The man below says, "Yes, you are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 40 feet above this field.
You are between 46 & 48 degrees N latitude and between 52 & 56 degrees W. longitude."

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>The man below says, "You must be a Manager"

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You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep and you expect me to solve your problem
The fact is you are in exactly the same position you were in before we met but now it is somehow my fault."

:)

If you enjoyed reading about "M1 Carbine: Wolff or USGI Recoil Spring?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!