Knoxx Tactical Stock - overkill for an H&R Pardner 12 gauge??


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anheiserglock
July 6, 2010, 12:35 PM
I know its a good stock....but should one be willing to pay almost half the cost of the gun itself for just the stock?? I'm on the fence on this one I'd like to plunck down 120 bucks give or take, but the little voice in my head tells me not to. Anyone in the same boat as me?? Please Help.

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JFrame
July 6, 2010, 12:46 PM
I'm having that very same debate with myself right now... :)

Just FYI -- Natchez has the SpecOps recoil-reducing stock on sale for $82 through the end of July (catalog price).

.

AcceptableUserName
July 6, 2010, 01:07 PM
nope, they're lame. overpriced junk, bad cheek weld. only useful for the recoil sensitive shooter, in which case I'm not really sure you should be shooting the shotgun in the first place.


the 82$ is pretty good though if it's the recoil reduction model.


I would spend the money on ammo.

PedalBiker
July 6, 2010, 01:52 PM
How about the "kick-off" option that Beretta has? Is it available separate? Does it work well? It seems it would not have the cheek pinching problem that the regular Knoxx stock has, and I've never liked the industrial styling of the other option.

hawk shooter
July 6, 2010, 09:23 PM
What does the cost of the gun have to do with the cost of the accessories? Would you rather have paid $350-400 for a real 870 and then add another $100 for a stock?

Think of the Pardner as getting a real good deal on an 870 and then spend what you saved on the accessories you want.

JFrame
July 6, 2010, 09:52 PM
What does the cost of the gun have to do with the cost of the accessories? Would you rather have paid $350-400 for a real 870 and then add another $100 for a stock?

Think of the Pardner as getting a real good deal on an 870 and then spend what you saved on the accessories you want.


I agree with that...My quandary is whether to add the SpecOps stock on the NEF at all.

:)

AcceptableUserName
July 6, 2010, 10:29 PM
spend the money on ammo, and/or Wolff extra power magazine tube springs, a better magazine tube follower, and AMMO!

earlthegoat2
July 6, 2010, 11:07 PM
Overkill for pretty much everything and a waste of fine green to boot.

Stick with the stock.....stock.

SuperNaut
July 6, 2010, 11:12 PM
False dichotomy.

Spend your money on ammo, and a Knoxx stock.

Carter
July 6, 2010, 11:30 PM
After seeing one used on the range I wouldn't get it. It looked like the gun gets propelled upwards more due to the recoil system, making follow up shots slower.

Snarlingiron
July 7, 2010, 11:08 AM
I bought one about 3 years ago. Recoil reduction is as advertised, so if this is a problem for you it might be the ticket. Cheek weld is a problem. If you shorten the stock too much, the bell will strike your cheek. The first time out I looked like someone slugged me in the face. My buddy was watching and noticed that the bell was hitting my cheek. I lengthened the stock and it has been ok after that. Given it to do all over again, I would spend my money on a mushy recoil pad such as the Remington Super Cell or the Limbsaver.

My first HD shotgun (I still have it, and it does bedside duty):
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=95661&d=1238955065

My latest HD build and my preferred configuration:
http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=95663&d=1238955113

Just my $.02 worth.

JFrame
July 7, 2010, 11:33 AM
Snarlington -- is that the Remington Super Cell on the second shotgun?

.

Snarlingiron
July 7, 2010, 03:44 PM
Yes, it is. Well, actually it is labeled R3, if i remember correctly (I am at work), but it is essentially the same as a Limbsaver. Nice and squishy.

JFrame
July 7, 2010, 04:19 PM
Yes, it is. Well, actually it is labeled R3, if i remember correctly (I am at work), but it is essentially the same as a Limbsaver. Nice and squishy.


Thank you -- that definitely sounds like an option... :)


.

TalonArms_R
August 22, 2010, 01:48 AM
I had a chance to shoot with a Knoxx equiped Pardner just last weekend. I would have no problem recommending one for a shooter sensitive to recoil. It does direct the recoil in a manner that flips the barrel up more, but anyone who would ave a problem with that is not likely to need one.

JFrame
August 22, 2010, 02:50 PM
I had a chance to hook up the Knoxx SpecOps stock to my NEF Pardner recently. Consider me one of the converts. The recoil reduction capability is incredible. I fired a string of 00 buck as fast as I could while keeping the shotgun at my hip, holding only the pistol grip and not even bracing the stock.

My palm virtually did not feel a thing...

.

Dave McCracken
August 22, 2010, 04:01 PM
Guys, get a standard wooden stock fitted to you, add a premium pad and LEARN TO RUN IT.

Technology is a poor substitute for expertise. So's a checkbook.

If the recoil still bothers you, switch to a lighter load, a heavier gun or both.

Spend the money on ammo range fees and,gasp,lessons......

JFrame
August 22, 2010, 04:40 PM
Dave McCracken said:

Guys, get a standard wooden stock fitted to you, add a premium pad and LEARN TO RUN IT.

Technology is a poor substitute for expertise. So's a checkbook.

If the recoil still bothers you, switch to a lighter load, a heavier gun or both.

Spend the money on ammo range fees and,gasp,lessons......


Dave -- I have no doubt there is much wisdom in what you say, and I am not trying to be contentious in saying this -- but is there not room for technology as a given solution?

People often opt for semiautomatic shotguns because they offer reduction in felt recoil. Would you advise those people not to do so?

The SpecOps stock is essentially performing the same function, while also providing the potentially improved reliability of the pump action (of course, it's only potential because the ultimate arbiter is the user).

Yes, I could go to a heavier shotgun -- which my bony, light frame may not be able to handle as effectively. I could go to lighter loads, which reduces the effect at the other end.

In my personal instance and perceived needs, a 12-gauge pump with a SpecOps stock satisfied my personalized requirements.

.

6-gunfun
August 22, 2010, 04:47 PM
slaped one on my 20 ga rem 870 i love it it never ever ever breaks and it almost seems like it allows me to shoot the gun faster when i need to

jon86
August 22, 2010, 04:51 PM
In my experience, the knoxx recoil reducing stock doesn't even reduce felt recoil. The knoxx lives in my drawer o'junk now. I fitted my synthetic stock to fit me. All I did was reduce the LOP by 1 inch. Quick cut with a saw and then recoil pad got screwed back on. WAY better than knoxx stock.

JFrame
August 22, 2010, 04:55 PM
jon86 said:

In my experience, the knoxx recoil reducing stock doesn't even reduce felt recoil. The knoxx lives in my drawer o'junk now. I fitted my synthetic stock to fit me. All I did was reduce the LOP by 1 inch. Quick cut with a saw and then recoil pad got screwed back on. WAY better than knoxx stock.

I've heard that some Knoxx stocks come from the factory with extra-tight springs, and it may take 20-30 rounds of shooting to loosen up.

I'm not saying that was the case in your instance -- but just a thought.

In any case, I have Knoxx stocks on my Pardner and Mossberg 500, and the recoil is definitely reduced. I guess maybe it will just depend on the individual shooter...

.

Dave McCracken
August 24, 2010, 12:10 PM
J, it's possible, but.....

The standard wooden stock has 200 years of R&D behind it. The springers have maybe 20. Many fine shooters do no better with the springers and some worse. Darn near everyone has a decrease in effectiveness using the AR style stuff on shotguns, poor cheek weld, slower mounts etc.

In your shoes, I'd try a fitted standard stock and shoot it vs a Knoxx for both time and score,then go with the winner.

roo_ster
August 24, 2010, 12:36 PM
The Knoxx Stocks are for-real. The recoil reduction is significant. If that is what you require or desire, paying for it is its own value without regard to what you paid for the shotgun. Would you feel the same way if you got a screaming deal on a used Rem 870 Wingmaster or Euro-shotgun?

I've used the Sec Ops recoil reducing stock and the Cop Stock recoil reducing folder.

I think the biggest issue is determining if they actually fit YOU, the shooter, and especially if you can get lined up well with the bbl and point the shotgun.

For instance, the collapsible SpecOps stock on a 20" Mossberg 500 does NOT fit me and I can't get lined up with the bbl to save my life. The recoil reduction of the Spec Ops was terrific. After my neighbor added a Limbsaver to the mix, I could shoot slugs all day or until my bank account ran dry.

So, I'll likely NOT be using the collapsible Spec Ops Stock, despite its recoil-reduction. The gun's gotta fit.

The Knoxx recoil reducing Cop Stock (& Spec Ops Folder), OTOH, on a Rem 870 with an 18" bbl fits me like a glove. Not as much recoil reduction, but dang if I can't shoot fast with it. Faster than most other regular-stocked pump shotguns in my case.

Also, I am not a big fan of rubbery, clingy recoil pads on "social" guns. I want to be able to bring 'er up without having it snag & catch on loose material. I want a broad but slick recoil surface/plate.

I am on the hunt for a used wood-stocked Rem 870 Police/Wingmaster with 18" bbl to see if I can cut and properly fit it to my own self. The utility of the wooden butt stock up close & personal is not to be discounted.

oneounceload
August 24, 2010, 12:48 PM
Unless the Knoxx is adding more weight to the gun over the wooden stock it cannot reduce actual recoil- laws of physics and all that......Recoil pads and other devices can reduce the perceived recoil (aka "felt"). Proper-fitting of the wooden stock does the same thing. Having a stock that is too short or too long will increase the perceived recoil.

Reducing the actual recoil involves using a heavy gun with light loads. The effects of actual recoil damage are cumulative over time and may go unnoticed for quite some time. Perceived recoil effects (bruised cheek, etc.) are immediately realized and disappear over time.

JFrame
August 24, 2010, 02:07 PM
J, it's possible, but.....

The standard wooden stock has 200 years of R&D behind it. The springers have maybe 20. Many fine shooters do no better with the springers and some worse. Darn near everyone has a decrease in effectiveness using the AR style stuff on shotguns, poor cheek weld, slower mounts etc.

In your shoes, I'd try a fitted standard stock and shoot it vs a Knoxx for both time and score,then go with the winner.


Dave -- thank you for the additional input!

.

JFrame
August 24, 2010, 02:13 PM
Unless the Knoxx is adding more weight to the gun over the wooden stock it cannot reduce actual recoil- laws of physics and all that......Recoil pads and other devices can reduce the perceived recoil (aka "felt"). Proper-fitting of the wooden stock does the same thing. Having a stock that is too short or too long will increase the perceived recoil.

Reducing the actual recoil involves using a heavy gun with light loads. The effects of actual recoil damage are cumulative over time and may go unnoticed for quite some time. Perceived recoil effects (bruised cheek, etc.) are immediately realized and disappear over time.

Agreed -- I believe everyone (including myself) is talking about the reduction in perceived recoil, not a reduction in recoil per se. The Knoxx stocks accomplish this through the mechanics of stretching the impetus of the recoil over time and space.

Hopefully, we'll see the advent of truly recoilless hand firearms with the phased pulse rifle... :D

(Although the short-lived rocket pistol of some decades ago also probably fit the bill... ;) )

.

Six
August 24, 2010, 02:15 PM
Recoil free is easy, just create a shell that sends a projectile in both directions...

JFrame
August 24, 2010, 02:25 PM
Recoil free is easy, just create a shell that sends a projectile in both directions...

I think we should discuss some potential design pitfalls first... :scrutiny:




;)

Mr. T
August 25, 2010, 01:55 AM
I would say checkout ATI for their collapsible stocks. I have one on my Mossberg 835. I only spent $67 on it and it works and feels awesome. I like the collapsible stock on it for getting the length of pull right where I want it. It has made that gun much more stable to shoot slugs from. Anyway just an option over the Knoxx and it's high cost. ATI makes stocks for most of the major manufacturers also.

JFrame
August 25, 2010, 10:36 AM
I would say checkout ATI for their collapsible stocks. I have one on my Mossberg 835. I only spent $67 on it and it works and feels awesome. I like the collapsible stock on it for getting the length of pull right where I want it. It has made that gun much more stable to shoot slugs from. Anyway just an option over the Knoxx and it's high cost. ATI makes stocks for most of the major manufacturers also.

I was able to get my SpecOps stocks for $83 each when Natchez had them on sale in July. Even without the sale price, I think they can still be had for about $95 if one shops around.

.

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