.30 caliber Luger soft point stopping power


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gopguy
July 6, 2010, 10:32 PM
I noted that Fiocchi is now making 7.65 Parabellum aka .30 Luger in a 93 grain soft point, with a claimed velocity of 1200 fps . I know some nations ban the use of military caliber (ie 9mm or .45acp) and thus .30 Luger has been popular for sport and defense, especially in Italy. Has anyone seen any data on the performance of this round with a soft point or hollow point in defensive shootings?

Not that I plan on using Grandpa's commercial Luger for defense, but I did pick up a couple boxes and was curious how good the stuff might be. At $20 for 50 rounds I won't be shooting it much.

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JimWahoo
July 7, 2010, 12:49 PM
Great question...I have a .30 Luger barrel that came with my Ruger P89 (dual barrel...standard is 9mm) and have yet to shoot it. saw those loads on Ammunition-to-go and have yet to buy any...

Jim

481
July 7, 2010, 01:08 PM
I've always liked the .30 Luger. Neat little round with a lot of history behind it.

If the soft point fails to expand (they have the tendency not to) it'll behave as would a FMJ round. Expect 29-31 inches of penetration.

If it expands, expect minimal deformation (1.1-1.25 caliber) and penetration ranging from 22-27 inches.

In the hands of a competent and determined user, I suspect that it'll do the job.

sonier
July 7, 2010, 08:31 PM
sounds like the 7.62x25 i like these rounds, they're fast ;)

Ithaca37
July 7, 2010, 08:50 PM
1. Get some knox gelatin.
2. make up said gelatin in a box shape and shoot it with desired ammo
3. ??????
4. profit.

gopguy
July 8, 2010, 01:51 PM
Not really a jello junkie, hoped to hear from some of our friends across the pond. Seemed to me we had some posters from Italy.

C96
July 8, 2010, 05:37 PM
30 Luger is 7.65x21mm, 30 Mauser is 7.62x25. 30 Mauser hopefully won't fit in your application. There are some out there that dispute that 30 Mauser is really 7.82x25. These seem to be academics that should find something better to do.

I have a C96 (surprised?) that I have been shooting for many years and have researched this issue quite a bit. If you ever need 30 Mauser most of the 7.62x25 will work fine and safely. I don't think there is this type of issue with 30 Luger.

I had a 9mm Luger for many years, beautiful firearm, very unreliable for me. Mine was a WW2 bringback in very fine condition. It was very susceptible to problems associated with "limp wristing", wouldn't chamber the next round.

Ithaca37
July 8, 2010, 06:27 PM
Not really a jello junkie, hoped to hear from some of our friends across the pond. Seemed to me we had some posters from Italy.

I am not proposing you draw any conclusions from shooting gelatin with the rounds you have. Gelatin is a great way to compare rounds. Since you have no idea what the rounds will do, shoot some gelatin with them, then get out a 9mm or something else and shoot some gelatin. Now you can compare relative performance. Some dude from italy isn't likely to know crap about the round's terminal performance. Even if they have stories about it being used, anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Do a side by side comparison of expansion and penetration with gelatin or some other medium.

unspellable
July 9, 2010, 06:59 PM
Fiocchi has been loading both the soft point and hardball for years. You will not see 1200 fps with them. They are under loaded. Barely enough steam to cycle the action.

Winchester sells a hardball load that runs a tad faster but still will not make their claimed velocity in a barrel of any length up to six inches.

You need to hand load to get proper performance.

PS. For those of you with shooter grade Lugers in this caliber, the majority of them have had their recoil springs "modified" by shade tree mechanics with no idea of what they were doing. I have several with varying degrees of screwed up recoil springs. One is flatly unsafe to shoot with any load.

Zoidberg523
July 9, 2010, 07:41 PM
I am not proposing you draw any conclusions from shooting gelatin with the rounds you have. Gelatin is a great way to compare rounds. Since you have no idea what the rounds will do, shoot some gelatin with them, then get out a 9mm or something else and shoot some gelatin. Now you can compare relative performance. Some dude from italy isn't likely to know crap about the round's terminal performance. Even if they have stories about it being used, anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Do a side by side comparison of expansion and penetration with gelatin or some other medium.

While I agree with everything else you stated in this comment, I find the highlighted portion to be (IMHO) pretty presumptuous. What is to say that an Italian gun enthusiast knows any less about firearms, ammo, and ballistics than you or anyone else on the planet? Seems a tad bit disparaging to me. :scrutiny:

Jim Watson
July 9, 2010, 07:49 PM
Softpoint pistol bullets do not have a good reputation for expansion. I would not expect a lot from this load.

sonier
July 9, 2010, 10:23 PM
I loaded some 7.62x25 rounds today penetration is about 4-6 inches through douglas fir. its 12 grains of H-110 behind a 85 grain softpoint, I was pretty much let down on the power, but it should still have some superior penetration through soft tissue.

Sunray
July 10, 2010, 03:36 AM
"...stopping power..." No such thing. No handgun cartridge gives a 100% reliable one shot stop. Including any .45. Neither does any rifle cartridge. Stopping power is a myth.

Plain Old Bill
July 10, 2010, 08:02 AM
Ended up with a brand-new set of .30 Luger dies still in the plastic via a trade. I have a broomhandle Mauser, which takes a .30 Mauser round- so can't use them. If anyone is interested send me an email or PM and we'll figure something out.

crushbup
July 10, 2010, 09:05 AM
While I agree with everything else you stated in this comment, I find the highlighted portion to be (IMHO) pretty presumptuous. What is to say that an Italian gun enthusiast knows any less about firearms, ammo, and ballistics than you or anyone else on the planet? Seems a tad bit disparaging to me.

It's not that an Italian gun enthusiast would know less. It's just irresponsible to take anecdotal evidence as being 100% reliable. He's not complaining about Italian shooters, he's complaining that OP was holding out to hear from an Italian shooter as if he would have some information that nobody else is privy to.

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