Differences in TT-33 ( Tokarev) Models


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Oyeboten
July 8, 2010, 06:59 PM
I notice there are differences between the Polish, Yugoslavian, Russian, Bulgarian, and Chinese Tokarev T-33 renditions.


Some have one or another kind of small lever above the Trigger area, others do not...some have a small lever at the rear frame area below the Slide, others do not.

Some the small Lever near the Trigger is fat and blobby and looks like some cheezy decomposing die casting, others, it is a solid nice looking slender Lever with position detents.


What are the functions of these Levers?

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DaBull
July 8, 2010, 09:06 PM
On some Tok models, a manual safety was added so the pistol would receive enough "points" from the BATFE to qualify as a "sporting" weapon. The Yugoslavian Toks have nice looking safeties at the rear of the frame (like a 1911). The Romanian Toks have a knobby lever above the mag release.

Jim K
July 8, 2010, 09:16 PM
Those levers are not original. As DaBull says, they were installed by the importers to meet BATFE requirements for a manual safety. Some work well, others do not and should NOT be trusted. Each importer had his own version designed and installed, so they vary.

The original Russian pistol and the East Bloc and Chinese military copies were never made with any kind of manual safety. Chinese guns made for the commercial market have good safeties.

Jim

theotherwaldo
July 8, 2010, 09:23 PM
Rule 1. Tokarev pistols do not have safeties.
Rule 2. When engaging the safety on a Tokarev pistol, observe Rule 1.

Jim K
July 8, 2010, 09:29 PM
Well, Waldo, you are wrong. See #2 and #3 above.

Jim

theotherwaldo
July 8, 2010, 09:54 PM
-Still wouldn't rely on the safety. And I've most of the models mentioned above.

Oyeboten
July 8, 2010, 11:22 PM
Hmmmmmmm...so, the 'Levers' I see some of them having, which are not the Slide-Catch...these would have been added by the importers? And are not original to the Pistol?

DaBull
July 8, 2010, 11:26 PM
Yes. The Tokarev was never intended to have a manual safety. If you find one (Chinese, Romanian, Yugoslavian, Polish) with an import mark, it should have been modified with a manual safety to satisfy import requirements. If you find a war trophy/battlefield pick-up Tokarev without import marks, it will not have a safety. These are rare, but they exist. You can find pics of them online if you look around a bit: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/download/file.php?id=32355&mode=view

If you are shopping for a Tokarev, I recommend getting a Yugo on sale from SOG for $190...about the cost of a Romanian which is also commonly available at the moment. The Yugos are well made and has a longer grip which is more comfortable to western hands. The downside is spare mags are hard to find, but some have had success modifying CZ52 mags. http://www.southernohiogun.com/0on-sale/yugo-md57-tt-tokarev-pistol-w-hol-ex-m.html

DaBull
July 8, 2010, 11:32 PM
Double Post.

Oyeboten
July 8, 2010, 11:50 PM
Thanks DaBull,


I will call them.

I wish the image they show, would show the other side of the Pistol..!

Lol...

Some of those 'levers' are just aweful looking, and, others look alright.


Anyway, yeah, I would like to have one, whether I leave it be, or, convert it to .38 Super.

DaBull
July 9, 2010, 12:35 AM
Reverse side:

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx116/MVolkJ1975/Milsurps/M571.jpg

http://img810.imageshack.us/i/dsc5762.jpg/

Gordon
July 9, 2010, 02:00 AM
I have a like new Yugo T33 from the 60s that was gotten from a spook in West Germany in 1972,it has been in a safe mostly since then and I never found a spare mag or needed one. I have shot it abot 250 times in 40 years, the last time with Sellior and Belloit ammo a couple years ago. It is scary accurate and load and blasty,but not much recoil. I also have a rare FEG RK59 9mm mak from the same source. It is one tiny light and HEAVY recoiling SOB. ONE box of ammo thru that blaster was enough. These guns were my Com Block collection.

Oyeboten
July 9, 2010, 02:44 AM
Thanks DaBull,


Those images show a very polite looking 'Safety', far as that goes...looks well done.


So, in function, the 'Safety' that was fitted to these, functions like the one on a Colt M1911?

It is a sort of Hammer Lock/Block, for carrying Cocked, and safty 'on'?

Quiet
July 9, 2010, 03:28 AM
The Zastava M57 (Yugo Tokarev) also differs from the other Tokarevs in that the magazines are not compatible.
Zastava M57 = 9 round magazine
TT33 Tokarev = 8 round magazine

DaBull
July 9, 2010, 09:28 AM
My expertise does not extend to the internals of the safety mechanism so I'll let somebody else take that question. I haven't made up my mind yet about the Yugo safety, but yes, it appears you could carry cocked and locked.

I do not trust the Romanian safety at all. If I just put some pressure on it while its on, even when there is no apparent movement, the trigger will fire. So, I would not carry it cocked and locked for fear movement in the holster and a bump to the trigger could set it off.

As Quiet said, the Yugo is the only Tok out there with the longer grip and therefore a longer, 9 round mag.

tkopp
July 9, 2010, 11:15 AM
The Yugo M57 has a longer grip and an extra round capacity, but Zastava also made a 9mm version of the same pistol. They have both a magazine disconnect and a thumb safety, and they work well.

cougar1717
July 9, 2010, 02:53 PM
The TT-33 is a simple gun, without most of the features of today's pistols. As others have said, the lever above the the mag release on a Romanian Tokarev is the safety, however there really is nothing safe about it. The only function that safety has is to block the trigger. The TT-33 is not a good carry gun because it is just not very safe to carry with one in the chamber. The firing pin is spring loaded and has no safety mechanism. You can push the firing pin from the hammer side and see it protrude from the bolt face.

WardenWolf
July 9, 2010, 04:23 PM
I'd trust the trigger block safety on my Romanian Tokarev. I've done lots of testing with it, and I'm confident the gun will not fire unintentionally. There is absolutely no play in the trigger with the safety engaged and its forward position means it cannot be disengaged until the gun has cleared the holster. As long as the holster holds it securely, there's absolutely no chance of it becoming accidentally disengaged.

The Tokarev has a half-cock locking notch which adds an additional degree of safety. One member here had a Tokarev malfunction (primarily due to bad springs, I suspect) where the hammer wasn't staying cocked after firing. It merely dropped to half-cock; the half-cock system on a Tokarev works well at preventing the hammer from dropping on the primer in the event the primary cocking lugs fail. The firing pin spring is also fairly strong. In other words, the pistol is fairly drop-safe.

Mizar
July 9, 2010, 06:38 PM
For military Tokarevs, only the Hungarian Tokagypt /T58/ (mistaken for Egyptian in origin) has an original safety lever. But to be honest the Tokagypt is not a "real military pistol" - it was not addopted by the Egyptian military, only designed for them.

Boris

P.S. There is no Bulgarian TT pistol.

DaBull
July 9, 2010, 08:22 PM
I'd trust the trigger block safety on my Romanian Tokarev. I've done lots of testing with it, and I'm confident the gun will not fire unintentionally. There is absolutely no play in the trigger with the safety engaged and its forward position means it cannot be disengaged until the gun has cleared the holster. As long as the holster holds it securely, there's absolutely no chance of it becoming accidentally disengaged.

Did you have your Romanian's safety fixed based on the recall? If so, what did they do to it?

azyogi
July 9, 2010, 08:54 PM
My Yugo 9mm Zastava TT33 has a slide mounted safety that not only blocks the trigger it also has a firing pin block, and magazine safety. 9 round magizine. I have no problem carrying it 'cocked and locked' it was imported by Freedom arms in the late 80's.

WardenWolf
July 9, 2010, 10:49 PM
Did you have your Romanian's safety fixed based on the recall? If so, what did they do to it?

Only the Tokarevs imported and modified by a particular company were subject to the recall. I can't recall which one, but AIM Surplus was the primary distributor of these badly modified Tokarevs. Mine was imported by Century and is perfectly fine. I got mine off Gunbroker about a year before this bad batch of Tokarevs came in.

Oyeboten
July 10, 2010, 06:22 AM
So, are their Firing Pins not an inertial type? - ie: if Hammer is 'down' the Firing Pin end would be protruding into the Breech?

With the early Colt Automatics having exposed Hammers, the Bronze Firing Pins were of the inertial Type, allowing safe carry with the Hammer 'down'.

The TT-33 to a naive eye, does seem to resemble a Hammer version of the M1903 .32 Auto Colt, if maybe scaled up a little.

Those roooskies...Lol...


So, if we look at this example, a Polish one, a 'RADON', we see a little quadrant Lever near the Trigger area -


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178346178


This would be a 'Safety' which blocks the Trigger mechanism in some way?


And, this would have been added by an Importer, to satisfy some import regulation?


This one, also Polish, has a different kind of device, appearing to lock the Slide -


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177797772

ChuteTheMall
July 10, 2010, 08:40 AM
Has anyone experienced a safety failure (ND) on any of these Toks?

Logan5
July 10, 2010, 01:06 PM
Not I! But then, I don't carry Tokarevs, and I don't use the add on safety during normal administrative gun handling at the range. It just doesn't seem like a very good idea though.

Snowdog
July 10, 2010, 06:37 PM
I have never been a believer in owning two identical pistols, but after purchasing an M57 (Yugoslavian Tokarev), I was so absolutely impressed that I had to buy two....

They are absurdly inexpensive for what you're getting: a quality Tokarev with well placed 1911-esque manual safety, a magazine safety that doesn't appear to negatively affect the respectable trigger, an enlarged magazine release button and a slightly longer grip that both fits my hand far better and supplies one extra round. The only downside is a magazine that isn't compatible with any other Tokarev. For some reason, this doesn't bother me.

I don't know how the safeties work on other Toks, but the safeties on both my M57 positively and crisply snap into and out of place. I'm quite happy with them.

WardenWolf
July 10, 2010, 06:44 PM
So, are their Firing Pins not an inertial type? - ie: if Hammer is 'down' the Firing Pin end would be protruding into the Breech?

Correct. If the hammer is fully lowered the firing pin will be protruding into the breech. HOWEVER, the Tokarev has a very strong half-cock position that compensates for this, and it is very easy to safely lower the hammer to half-cock by wedging your opposite thumb behind the rear sight and lowering the hammer down. With your thumb in this position, the hammer cannot fall far enough to strike the primer or bypass the half-cock notch even if you lose your grip on it. The procedure is this:

1. Place opposite thumb behind the rear sight to prevent hammer from fully falling.

2. Disengage safety.

3. Grip the hammer with primary thumb while pulling the trigger and gently lower it down. Release the trigger after it has cleared the primary cock position and it will settle safely into half-cock.

This two-handed method ensures complete safety and while doing this. Once on half-cock, the trigger cannot be pulled nor can the slide be racked until the pistol is cocked again.

Lakeshore
July 10, 2010, 07:29 PM
Has anyone experienced a safety failure (ND) on any of these Toks?
If you call the safety preventing the gun from firing even in the safety-off position a safety failure, then yes. My Yugo M-57 from SOG needed some amateur home gunsmithing on the safety before the thing would even shoot.

Ironically the much maligned safety on my Romanian Cugir works perfectly and I consider the Romy the superior TT-33 of the two.

Shadow 7D
July 12, 2010, 01:01 AM
HALF COCK
that was and is the only safety mechanism designed into the pistol
it LOCKS both the trigger group and slide

much like Mr. Browning's other single action designs there have been numerous manual's of arms designed around the weapon, most carry in condition 3, or 1, it's a combat pistol for the masses, the poor, untrained huddling communist masses, something a conscript can master.

It's not a kimber, it's not a glock or sig, but it will go bang every time.

OH, and if you want condition 1, the yugos safety blocks the sear.

Um, Lakeshore, you do realize that the Zastava M57 has a Magazine safety, that blocks the sear unless the magazine is in place.

Lakeshore
July 12, 2010, 04:56 PM
Roger that^^^.

Apparently some of the M57 manual safeties were installed a fraction of a millimeter off which caused them to impede movement of the sear even in the off position. Nothing a little file work won't fix but I'll bet a few were returned to SOG because of it. All these Tok manual safeties are a PITA imho.

Shadow 7D
July 12, 2010, 06:32 PM
AH, yes, but like much on the pistol very easy to correct with a little work and due diligence.

My favorite so far is the number of threads, afew here, but most else where, complaining about how the POS wont "shoot" (dry fire) but for some mysterious reason works at the range.... Nothing like a mag disconnect to throw the unaware under the bus or out the back in a tizzy, I image a number have been returned for that too.

Oyeboten
July 12, 2010, 10:32 PM
Part of my fascination in the TT-33 family of variations, is for having heard they can be converted easily to .38 ACP or .38 Super.

Not trying to take anything away from their original Chamberings, but this is a considerable part of what would interest me to own one - having it converted to .38 ACP or .38 Super.


Anyone here done that or had it done to give me some pointers?

Shadow 7D
July 13, 2010, 08:11 PM
You rechamber a 9mm barrel and use the x25 magazine

stchman
July 13, 2010, 09:01 PM
Polish, Russian, and Romanian are virtually identical. The cheesy safety on the Romanian one is easily removed, but does leave a hole.

Snowdog
July 13, 2010, 11:23 PM
Oyeboten, I find that interesting as well. I've been amazed some have actually converted Tokarevs to 9x23 Winchester. As I've read of these conversions but not yet of any exploding Tokarevs, I believe the Tok is a fairly strong pistol.

WardenWolf
July 14, 2010, 01:24 PM
Ultimately, despite some detractors, the Tokarev is a very safe pistol. It has a somewhat different manual of arms than most people are used to, but once it is learned and followed it is just as safe as any other design. Any firearm, if you fail to learn and follow the manual of arms for that specific model, can be unsafe. It doesn't matter if you're shooting a bolt action rifle or the latest whiz-bang. You have to know your weapon. That's what it all boils down to.

Oyeboten
July 15, 2010, 04:39 AM
Well...thanks for the continueing info everyone.


9x23 Winchester would not be my choice, for several reasons, among which, is that I would be more than satisfied with .38 Super and it's range of loadings!! Lol...that'd be plenty for me!


And even at that, I'd want to spray 'Dye' the Cartridges to make sure none could wander into any of my old .38 Autocolts.

shootr
July 15, 2010, 05:04 AM
No expert on Toks, but I like a Romy I picked up a while back. Removed the safety and plugged the holes. Looks / works fine. Half cock seems very sure and I'd have no problem carrying it with one in the chamber. IMO no less dangerous than a 1911 cocked and locked. BWTFDIK

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