Good starting rifle


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Celtic
July 10, 2010, 04:00 PM
First off let me say hello to you guys, I just joined the forum today.

I have been looking for a good first rifle for a month or two now and I've gone through too many reviews and forum posts to count. I am looking for good rifle for punching holes in paper at a fairly far distances and sub-MOA preferably. I won't be doing any hunting at all and probably won't be hand loading for a few years.

I have come down to 4 options that I think are very viable for a first rifle but I want to know what you guys think.

Marlin XS7. [I have heard good things about this gun with hand loads but can't find any thing about factory loads]
Savage Stevens. [I have seen very mixed reviews on this one but I am really interested in it]
Savage Edge. [I was really interested in this one but the stiff trigger worries me]
TC Venture. [The Venture is way above my budget but it may be worth it and the 5R rifling interests me]

So, which one if these do you guys think is the best in terms of accuracy and quality? I am open to suggestions too.


Also, I know that these are hunting rifles and will never be as accurate as a target rifle but its the best I can do currently.

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wlewisiii
July 10, 2010, 04:28 PM
I went with the Marlin in 7mm-08. It shoots the 140 gr Federal Fusion's I bought just fine once I got my cheap scope sighted in. I'd rather have iron sights, but that's for another day.

I like it. It fits me well & is well made. I even like the synthetic stock. It'll do minute of whitetail & that's what I want.

DANNY243
July 10, 2010, 04:38 PM
Out of thise three I would go with the stevens. I have an xs-7 in .243 and I wish I had bought a stevens. It shot 12 inch groups out of the box with fed power shock ammo and the bolt opens when you carry it on a sling due to the 2 stage safety. The stevens is basically a savage 110 which is a fantastic rifle. Free floated barrel, floating bolt head, zero headspace and lots of aftermarket upgrades available. The stevens trigger is adjustable to a crisp 2 1/2 lbs, as good or batter than the marlin pro-fire trigger, all around better rifle imo. I wouldn't even consider the savage edge, its a bottom dollar piece of junk designed to complete with another piece of junk, the Rem 770.

The Annoyed Man
July 10, 2010, 04:45 PM
...looking for good rifle for punching holes in paper at a fairly far distances and sub-MOA preferably
What is "fairly far distances" to you? A lot of people talk about sub-MOA. Almost any rifle will put together a sub-MOA group on a perfect day with the perfect load.... ....once. And then it will frustrate the hell out of the owner for the next 10 years.

If you want to do it with consistencey, first, buy a heavy barreled bolt rifle, .308 Winchester preferred. If you're serious about it, then don't buy a cheap rifle. You don't have to spend a gozillion dollars, but be prepared to sink at least $800-$1,000 into the rifle, maybe more, and an equal amount into the scope. Then go practice, practice, practice; and work up a load that works reliably in that rifle.

Otherwise, if you're not willing to make that kind of investment, don't waste your time trying to use an inexpensive but perfectly good, lightweight sporter rifle as a sniper weapon. You can have scads of fun, and still go plinking, and hunt very well with a less expensive rig.

We have two real accurate bolt rifles in our family - a Remington 700 VSF and a Savage 10FP-HS Precision. Both are heavy barreled rifles in .308, and both are a delight to shoot. But you won't get into one for the kind of bargain package prices you'll pay for a Stevens or Savage rifle/scope combo package.

Lovesbeer99
July 10, 2010, 05:01 PM
I'd need more info but based on what you asked for, I'd go with the Savage 10 or an AR. You can get a match grade AR for less then 1300 new so I'm sure you can get one used for a better price. you can get a match grade upper for less than 700.00 if you already have a lower.

Celtic
July 10, 2010, 05:12 PM
Thanks guys.
I guess I'll start saving for a Savage 10FP. Sounds like a nice rifle.

Also, would any one know an average group of a stevens 200 with factory ammo? Even with the mystic power of google I've yet to find one.

EDIT: Wow "The Annoyed Man" we live pretty close to each other O_0

FMJMIKE
July 10, 2010, 07:24 PM
Stevens or Savage.................:D

TechBrute
July 10, 2010, 07:30 PM
Celtic, welcome to THR. Check my sig line for a local support group.

What kind of budget are you working with? A .223 is a great caliber for punching paper, especially if you aren't rolling your own. I would give some thought to a .22 for a first rifle if all you're doing is paper.

T.R.
July 10, 2010, 07:49 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Stevens30-30.jpg

I'm an older guy that remembers the JFK assassination and Viet Nam War. Times have changed, buying trends have changed, but deer are the same.

Stevens model 325 in 30-30 is a most excellent rifle. They can be purchased for far less than a lever action. Check GunBroker.com for this rifle. This rifle is still an excellent choice for forest & foothills hunter. Improved ammo by Hornady lever-revolution makes 225 yards shots entirely feasible.

TR

blackops
July 10, 2010, 08:33 PM
R700 SPS. Down the road when you decide to improve the rifle you will have the most available options on the market. From cheap, to mid, to top of the line. Good luck changing the trigger out on the Savage. Or even finding 1/4 of the stocks available for the R700. You can get a SPS for around 600.

DO NOT buy a 30-30. The 308 is a great round to learn how to shoot with. After you have no lands left in your barrel then you can get picky about the cartridge.

TechBrute
July 10, 2010, 09:01 PM
I'm an older guy that remembers the JFK assassination and Viet Nam War. Times have changed, buying trends have changed, but deer are the same.

So, technology be darned, let's hunt with spears!! Deer are the same. Technology marches on.

For a target rifle, you'll want a heavy barrelled rifle, as the annoyed dude said. After a handful of shots, thinner profiles start walking the shots. They don't do well for 100 rounds or so.

Celtic
July 10, 2010, 09:04 PM
Maybe I should look into a Tikka? I am sorry guys for these silly questions but I am fresh of the boat to rifles.

And actually TechBrute brings up a good question, what caliber rifle should I get? I am partial to .308 for the amount of choices available.


That Savage 10FP and 10FCP-K really "turn me on" lol

taliv
July 10, 2010, 09:09 PM
the 10F line definitely has a good reputation

however, you might want to check with some local NRA clubs as they often publish newsletters monthly that include items for sale by members, which are usually used match rifles.

btw, welcome to THR

The Annoyed Man
July 10, 2010, 09:15 PM
Celtic, here you go: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=298021

We've both gotten better with those rifles since then. I was recently shooting 3/8" groups with the Remington, using 175 grain SMKs on 42.5 grains of Varget. Also, a minor correction... I originally reported the 700 as having a 1:12 twist. That was taken from the Remington website at the time, but it was wrong. I checked with Remington customer service, and the barrel has a 1:10 twist. When I switched to shooting 175 grain bullets, its accuracy picked up another notch.

Celtic
July 10, 2010, 09:22 PM
Thanks Annoyed, that is really helpful. I am going to take a look at that VSF really fast....google is amazing

Edit: Looks about the same price as a 10fp. Both look like awesome rifles

Celtic
July 10, 2010, 09:42 PM
Actually that VSF looks quite nice. But now I hit the brick wall of picking the best rifle for me out of the limitless expanse of rifles...

homers
July 10, 2010, 10:19 PM
If you aren't planning on hunting, then I'd choose a caliber that has little to moderate recoil, has cheap and plentiful ammo found at almost any store -- 223 or 243. 308 is a great, all round, usually easy and cheap to find also, but will kick noticeably more than the others I mentioned.

As far as guns go, find a nice piece, put a decent ($200+ scope on it) and have fun.

The marlin xs7 looks good, many good things have been written about it. I'd also look into the Weatherby Vanguard.

snakeman
July 10, 2010, 10:27 PM
I would go with a marlin xs7 or a t/c venture. I have owned both the marlin and the stevens and both are great guns. They are both very accurate and light but the marlin has the better trigger. Both will be great starting guns. Just be sure you let the light contour barrel cool between shots and you will be ok. What money you save can be used on ammo and a good scope.

DIM
July 10, 2010, 10:46 PM
I would say Venture, however never tried it, but I own TC ICON and from experience I would say its above Savage Remington or Marlin, from what I remember Venture offers 1 MOA guarantee, my Icon came with SUB MOA and the target with it showed 0.56" spread. I also had experience with their customer service, they offer life time warranty on their product, with Venture I would check if lifetime does apply. I had issue with new bolt, it was hard to close so I called them 2 hours later there was FedEx guy at my door to pick up my riffle they overnight it and I got it back two days later. I never experienced such quick service. My issue was with the tight ejector spring it was new they told me on the phone to use dummy round to get it loose, but they still wanted back to their shop. I think if you get Venture you want be disappointed... Good luck!

Celtic
July 11, 2010, 12:18 AM
What is everyone's opinion on the Venture? Any issues? Or any flukes?

DIM
July 11, 2010, 01:20 AM
Its a rare piece I held few but never shot one seem ok but different from ICON

Celtic
July 11, 2010, 02:46 AM
Do you guys know which of my original list, excluding the Venture, is the most accurate in .308? I think it would be the Marlin or Stevens

Abel
July 11, 2010, 11:07 AM
I wouldn't rate anything on your original list as SUB-MOA. That's not to say that they aren't all fine hunting rifles....Minute-of-deer is what they are made for. But they are all capable of 1.5MOA. The Venture claims MOA accuracy. There's only one way to find that out. :D

Celtic
July 11, 2010, 03:11 PM
How accurate would a mosin nagant sniper rifle be? Probably about 3" MOA?


And out of pure curiosity, would a Stevens or Marlin be able to hit a target out at 1000 yards? I know thats one hell of a challenge but is it remotely possible?

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 11, 2010, 03:43 PM
Savage 110, then glass bed it yourself, free float the barrel and have a gunsmith do a trigger job on it. Mount a really nice scope and you will be on your way, if not already there, to having a TACK-DRIVER!

Celtic
July 11, 2010, 04:53 PM
A novice glass bedding and free floating a rifle while on a budget? Thats just a recipe for disaster. Heck, to be honest I don't even know what glass bedding is, much less how to do it. lol. And even if I knew I bet you I would still screw it up :)

I would have a gunsmith do it for me but then the budget would be bust.

TechBrute
July 11, 2010, 05:35 PM
I have a Savage 12FV in .223 that will touch holes all day long at 100 yards. I think they are fairly inexpensive these days.

The rifle hasn't had any work done on it, but I prefer a stock pack on it, as the standard stock is somewhat thin at the cheek weld.

Celtic
July 11, 2010, 06:35 PM
Ok I finally figured out what I need at ask.

With a budget of $400, what is the most accurate rifle I can afford, minus the scope?

[Why yes.....that is a cheap budget]

chaim
July 11, 2010, 10:31 PM
Accurate, but on a budget. Sounds like used Savage 110 or used Howa 1500 territory to me. You can get them new if you can bump up your range by about $100. A used Remington 700 or 70 might come in around $400 if you are lucky. A couple years ago I was looking for something similar and ended up with a new Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .223 for a bit over $500 (they run a bit more now).

When I was looking I was convinced I wanted a bigger caliber for longer distances. I was convinced by other posters here that .223 was the way to go. It is accurate to at least 600 yards with the right loads. It is a lot cheaper to shoot than even the cheapest of the bigger calibers and by the time you need a more powerful caliber for the distance you would have saved enough money in ammo to buy a second rifle. The only advantage of the more powerful calibers as a beginner really is hunting, and it doesn't sound like that is what you plan to do. The caliber will make a bigger difference to your budget than initial price anyway, assuming you actually shoot it, so I would highly suggest going with the .223.

TechBrute
July 11, 2010, 11:51 PM
A Savage 12fv New is $520. You should be able to hunt around and find a used one in your price range.

And I'm going to reiterate my suggestion of a .223. :)

Celtic
July 12, 2010, 01:59 AM
I think I am going to go with a venture for 4 reasons:

1. The Sub-MOA guarantee [Yes, I know that it probably means I have to use bullet made of chopped lion whiskers and gold]
2. Its just a tad above my price range, I found a good deal at http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item.aspx?PID=180279&w=PQ%2BJDyOLrQE%3D . So that means I would get the venture and rings for $439.00. And a Nikon prostaff or Barska Benchmark for about $200. So a grand total of $639.00
3. 5R rifling
4. It looks "saaaxy"


But I probably won't buy it right away. I need to save just a few more dollars and then I will grab it.

[BTW, is the site I am planning on buying from a safe place to buy from? I am always weary of online shopping]


If any of you happen to see a TC venture in DFW send a heads up my way

DIM
July 12, 2010, 03:28 AM
TC uses regular Federal Power Shock ammo to test their rifles, my 308 was tested using 150 gr SP Power Shock ammo, with my hadloads sometimes it shoots 0.25" and ridiculous one hole but those are rare...

coloradokevin
July 12, 2010, 05:53 AM
Maybe I should look into a Tikka? I am sorry guys for these silly questions but I am fresh of the boat to rifles.

And actually TechBrute brings up a good question, what caliber rifle should I get? I am partial to .308 for the amount of choices available.


That Savage 10FP and 10FCP-K really "turn me on" lol

Everything I've ever heard about the Tikka rifles has been excellent, and they guarantee that their rifles will fire a 1" three-shot group at 100 yards. I've actually been thinking about picking up a .30-06 Tikka T3 Lite as an elk rifle. I know a few guys who have Tikkas, and one of them swears that he can consistently shoot around .5 MOA with his handloads (I haven't witnessed this yet, but he offered to take me to the range and show me).

The .308 is a great cartridge, and a very easy one to find in stores. You won't have trouble finding factory match ammo for the .308, and I'd bet it almost certainly accounts for better than 90% of the law enforcement sniper rifles that are currently in service in this country.

TechBrute
July 12, 2010, 09:34 AM
Celtic, By the time you pay shipping and transfer fee, you will much closer to $500. Whatever your selection, I would try to locate it at one of the local gun shows. Dallas has what I believe to be some of the best selection of shows in the country. We have a show almost every weekend that is better than what most states have on a yearly basis.

Do you already have the Aubrey Turner link?

Celtic
July 12, 2010, 12:21 PM
Aye, I was tired when I found that "deal" so I didn't account for shipping.

Now I am probably going to sound stupid when I ask but, what is an Aubrey Turner link?


EDIT: I found out :)

TechBrute
July 12, 2010, 03:26 PM
For anyone else that lives in the DFW area:

http://www.aubreyturner.org/gunshows/

TechBrute
July 12, 2010, 03:27 PM
Oh, and the Market Hall show is generally the best one.

Celtic
July 12, 2010, 03:50 PM
Is the one at big town good also?

TechBrute
July 12, 2010, 04:03 PM
It's not bad. The problem with the Big Town show isn't the show, it's the venue. Lots of cars have been broken into in the past, and the Mesquite PD has been nonchalant about dealing with it. When a rep from the MPD spoke to my group that volunteers with the Grand Prairie PD, he made some comment about the gun show "causing crime," and when I asked why they never have one of their MULTIPLE skyboxes out there, he just talked about how they wished it would go away. There have been members from this board that have had the gas siphoned out of their vehicle, too.

The show itself is decent, if a little on the small side. It's probably 1/3 the size (or less) of the Market Hall show. I was there a few months ago and there were actually multiple police cars sitting on the far end of the parking lot. In the past, there was only one parked up against the building with the cop inside in the AC. Hopefully, this represents a change in the PD's attitude/commitment.

If I were you, I'd prep to go to multiple shows and be ready for that one good deal you'll come across. There are some real deals to be had for the patient...

gondorian
July 12, 2010, 07:13 PM
Celtic, I was in the same boat you were in looking for a good first centerfire rifle and had pretty much decided on getting a t/c venture and a nikon pro-staff (probably 4-12x40 with mildot reticle) until I was seduced by the M1 Garand :). All around I think you have settled on a pretty good combo. As for where get a Venture I would keep an eye on the Cabela's sales, they have had ventures on sale for $419 last year and $429 this year.

Celtic
July 12, 2010, 07:34 PM
Well I got my list ready so I know what to jump on if I find a good deal.

How common are Ventures and Savage 10fp's? I know it would depend completely on the vendors there but are they really hard to find?



Don't think I am stuck to those two guns. So far I think that they are the best deal for my $$. But that could all change, depending what the vendors bring to the gun show.

DIM
July 12, 2010, 09:11 PM
my local dicks sell both and they have Tikka as well, by the way you can ask them to special order you one, or try any descent gun dealer in your area. Walmart even can be used to order rifles not sure if they deal with Tikka or TC, or drive to closest cabelas store they always got something on sale, plus have good selection of used guns...
Closest Cabelas is by Austin I think...

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0074373217307a&navCount=1&podId=0074373&parentId=cat604685&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20712-cat604684-cat604685&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat604685

brl150
July 12, 2010, 09:36 PM
Okay, this might be a baaad idea to some...but it just came to me as I was reading the posts here. Being that you would have to stretch it to purchase the rifle you, sort of, want; maybe think of an alternative way to go...temporarily.

Okay...everyone grab your seats. NEF single shot! I have one in .243 that came with a Bushnell 3x9 scope for $219. My friend bought one in .223 without a scope and he paid $189. Now this is 5 or 6 years ago but they haven't gone up that much. That way you can get out and shoot now AND have some money left over (for ammo, shooting accessories, etc.) while saving for the rifle you really want.

My .243 shoots at 1" @ 100 and my friend's shoots at .75" (when he shoots it, not me...lol). You would get a lot of years of fun with it and you can change barrels/calibers for $85. Then you'd make a new rifle selection when you were ready.

Anyway...it's just a thought that popped into my head. Thought I'd throw it out there.

Best of luck to you.

rodregier
July 12, 2010, 09:51 PM
If you're just punching paper and want to get a lot of centrefire practice, my vote would be for a .223 chambering.

homers
July 12, 2010, 11:01 PM
Marlin xs7 in 243 (about $325 or <$400 with cheaper scope pkg) or Weatherby Vanguard in 223 or 243 (about $400) depending on where you buy it.

Maybe add FFL transfer fee, registration fees, tax.

Rings ($30-$50), scope (Nikon Team Primos 3-9x, $200, or others around $200).

Celtic
July 12, 2010, 11:10 PM
my local dicks sell both and they have Tikka as well, by the way you can ask them to special order you one, or try any descent gun dealer in your area. Walmart even can be used to order rifles not sure if they deal with Tikka or TC, or drive to closest cabelas store they always got something on sale, plus have good selection of used guns...
Closest Cabelas is by Austin I think...

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0074373217307a&navCount=1&podId=0074373&parentId=cat604685&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20712-cat604684-cat604685&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat604685


I have one right next to me :)

DIM
July 12, 2010, 11:23 PM
You have Cabelas or Dicks or it doesn't matter, what's important both can sell you what you need... By the way got back from the range today it was windy gusting 10 - 15 mph I was shooting my TC Icon on 300 and 500 yards, the 300 yards were easy shots 1.6 - 2.0" 5 shot groups the 500 I had 5- 5.16" 5 shot groups last year I was shooting tighter groups...

slowr1der
July 12, 2010, 11:40 PM
IMO one of the best deals out there is the Savage Model 10 or 110 depending on the caliber that they sell at Walmart as a package deal. It's got the accu trigger which is great and is a very accurate rifle. They sell for $400 with a cheap Simmons scope and sling. You will probably want to upgrade the Simmons scope and rings, but it's a great rifle for a great price.

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 12:11 AM
I can't find any wally worlds that sell guns. At least around me.


How accurate is a 110 or 111 is one of those package deals

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 12:53 AM
But if the 110 or 111 packages are accurate then I am going to jump on them.

slowr1der
July 13, 2010, 01:20 AM
Wait were you the one yesterday asking about rifles? I remember responding to a thread on one forum recommending that Savage and the user saying no Wally Worlds sold guns around him. If you are the same guy sorry about recommending it again then. The model 10 Savage I've seen in a .243 with the cheap Simmons scope shot around .8" groups with factory ammo. With hand loads it likes it shot a few .4-.5" groups. I read one review online that said he shot about 1.5" groups with his hand loads and that was decent for a hunting rifle. However the one I saw did a lot better than that even better with the hand loads. So I can't promise they will do that, but I can testify to the fact that the one I've seen did.

I read a guy on here saying his shot about 1.5" groups with hand loads after about 2-300 rounds. He said it shot great for the first few hundred rounds, but after that the groups opened up to 1.5" or so. I don't know if this is a common issue. He said he and his friends did this. The one I've seen didn't have over 200 rounds through it, but I just can't really see this being true in general unless something was wrong.

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 01:48 AM
Nope, this is the only gun forum I belong to. If the gun goes from sub-MOA to 1.5 MOA after 200 rounds that maybe a problem. I will look into it though.

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 02:46 AM
Is 111FCXP3 a good gun from savage? There is one available for $400 in .270 with factory scope near me so...:)



And there is a used Remington 700 ADL 300WIN MAG w/Swift 3x9 Scope near me for $329.00. So is that a good rifle?


Or how about this Winchester model 70, 7mm WSM for $500 with Bushnell 3x-9x by 40mm Scope model 71-3948 waterproof, dusk and dawn brightness, fingertip wind age and elevation adjustment, fast focus eyepiece with black plastic lens caps?

There is also a Ruger Mark II 24'' stainless steel 7mm Rem Magnum for $399

DIM
July 13, 2010, 08:29 AM
If you not reloading then I wouldn't buy those calibers, they are great calibers but expensive, check out how much box of 20 rounds will cost you, and the recoil on them will keep you away from shooting them, if you feel comfortable shooting 308, 30-06 then I would say you are ready for magnum recoil...

I have Savage 111 it was 399 when I got it from Dicks it had Simons scope, it was great shooter out of the box, but after I shot 200 - 300 rounds my groups opened up they are not 0.5" but 1.5" and sometimes 2.5" still ok for hunting in the woods but i would hesitate to shoot it at 300 yards now...

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 12:06 PM
Back to the TC it is then :)

DIM
July 13, 2010, 12:41 PM
Hold on have you considered Weatherby Vanguard? They like 430 bucks, and they do guarantee to shoot 1.5 MOA or better... http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat604684-cat604685&id=0074726217290a&navCount=1&podId=0074726&parentId=cat604685&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 02:42 PM
I did consider the Vanguard but I am not sure

Kentucky_Rifleman
July 13, 2010, 04:53 PM
I would say Venture, however never tried it, but I own TC ICON and from experience I would say its above Savage Remington or Marlin

I won't swear by the Venture, but there isn't an American sporting rifle made that will outshoot the TC Icon. There are some that may shoot as well, but the Icons are truly sub-MOA, right out of the box.

Understand that I'm an old-school Remington guy, and I'll say the new sporting Remingtons will not shoot with the TCs.

My father-in-law bought one of the Icons in .308, and was so taken with it that he bought 2 more (in .243 and .30 TC).

They all CONSISTENTLY hold sub MOA groups, often leaving one ragged hole with handloads.

If the Venture is any kin to the Icon, buy it.

KR

homers
July 13, 2010, 09:23 PM
All of the guns suggested are fine and are probably more accurate than you are.

Maverick223
July 13, 2010, 09:58 PM
IMO it depends upon what you are willing to do later on. If you are willing to make modifications as funds permit then the Stevens is a great rifle. All it really needs is a better stock and trigger job to make it a pretty good shooting rifle. You won't need that to begin with, and can save for it as you go. The other option is a Marlin XS-7, but unfortunately it is unavailable in what I consider the perfect chambering for your use...the .223Rem. This chambering will allow you to shoot inexpensively, but is still a pretty good cartridge for moderately long ranges (up to about 500-600yds).

One thing that you might want to consider is a rimfire rifle before stepping up to a more costly (both initial cost and ammunition) centerfire rifle. A .22LR will be a great rifle for learning all the basics of good marksmanship, while keeping the cost very affordable. This permits more shooting, which is very important to becoming a good shot. It is also much more forgiving as it has much less recoil. IMO the Savage Mk. II (http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-MarkIIBV22.htm) would be a perfect fit for this rifle, as it has proven to be very accurate, reliable, well constructed, and is affordable (about $150.00 with an Accutrigger). You can save up for a centerfire rifle after you have mastered the effective range of the .22LR and feel you are ready for something a bit larger with a greater effective range.

Another important consideration is optics. This is particularly important for a centerfire rifle, but also very important on a rimfire. You need a good scope, Barska is NOT a good scope (for any rifle). Look at various offerings from Sightron, the Vortex lines (excluding the Crossfire series), various Nikons, and the Bushnell Elite series. All of these will serve you well for years to come, have a bright clear picture, have repeatable adjustments, and hold zero well. For a dedicated target rifle moderate-high magnification is important, but not nearly important as the glass quality...in short buy a low powered (even fixed power) scope that is nicer, before a Chinese optic with high magnification.

:)

Bullnettles
July 13, 2010, 10:08 PM
Got to the last post thinking I'd have something to add, but Maverick beat me to it. Just to make sure, NO BARSKA PLEASE!!!! Good luck with your rifle choice and pictures are welcome:D. Welcome to THR and God Bless Texas.

Maverick223
July 13, 2010, 10:13 PM
Got to the last post thinking I'd have something to add, but Maverick beat me to it.:neener:

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 10:18 PM
I have a .22LR :)

I forgot what model but its a old ruger and one hell of a plinker.

Maverick223
July 13, 2010, 10:21 PM
I have a .22LRWell you did say "first rifle" (though I didn't read the thread in its entirety)...my first recommendation stands, as well as the lower paragraph (sorry for the length) regarding optics.

I forgot what model but its a old ruger and one hell of a plinker.Probably a 10/22...seems like everyone has at least one (not that it is a bad thing or a bad rifle for that matter).

:)

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
It has a laminated stock if that helps identify it lol.

I should edit that, "Second rifle"

Maverick223
July 13, 2010, 10:27 PM
It has a laminated stock if that helps identify it lol.Not so much, the 10/22 comes in many configurations, as do scores of other .22LRs...is it a semi-automatic carbine? Look like this?
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/ruger/rug_1022_1109.jpg

I should edit that, "Second rifle"We'll just call it "first big boy rifle"...sound better? :p

Celtic
July 13, 2010, 10:31 PM
"I'm a big kid now!......BOOM"
lol

It is a semi-auto rifle. It was probably bought in the 80's. It was my father's and it was passed to me so I don't know to much about it.

Celtic
July 14, 2010, 03:12 AM
I can't wait for this week end. Gun show and cabela's. Going deal hunting :)

DIM
July 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
Celtic, before driving to Cabelas, call them and ask them if they have what you looking for in stock, by the way have you decided on the caliber?

Celtic
July 14, 2010, 09:41 PM
Yes I have. I am going with .308

I picked .308 for the variety. I would of gone with the .223 but I plan to do longer range shooting someday and the .223 would have a harder time doing that then the .308

I can handle the recoil :) And if I really need some relief from the recoil I will replace the recoil pad.

DIM
July 14, 2010, 10:03 PM
I usually shoot my 308 30 - 50 rounds and I have no problem with recoil, what I do have I loose sight of the target, but that's normal. You might consider getting shoulder pad instead of recoil pad, but its all up to you... http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=recoil+shoulder+pad&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Xl4-TPnaDYH7lwfb5YGpAw&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CDwQrQQwAA

chaim
July 16, 2010, 08:54 PM
I picked .308 for the variety. I would of gone with the .223 but I plan to do longer range shooting someday and the .223 would have a harder time doing that then the .308

I was thinking the same way but ended up going with the .223. You really should consider it.

To get good enough for ranges that .223 can't handle you will need to practice a lot. If you aren't going to reload you can save a ton of money with .223. For instance, buying bulk and inexpensive ammo of the same brand from the same store (to minimize the impact of other factors), buying from Cabela's you will pay $169.99 for 200 rounds of Winchester White Box 147gr 7.62x51 (aka .308) and for 200 rounds of 55gr 5.56 NATO (aka .223) Winchester White Box you will usually pay $119.99 from Cabela's (right now it is on sale for $99.99). So, that is a $50 difference for 200 rounds (the difference can be a bit more or a bit less depending upon your ammo choices). It won't take that long before you can pay for a second rifle in just your ammo savings.

TechBrute
July 16, 2010, 09:06 PM
Not to mention, your shoulder will thank you...

DIM
July 16, 2010, 09:07 PM
I reload for all of my rifles that's 223, 270 and 308, I would say 223 is least expensive to load, and with 1:12 twist in it I shoot 300 yards with 1.8 - 2" 5 shots, I did it today and it was windy 10 - 14 mph gusting. I wouldn't shoot my 223 on 500 yards just to many factors will ruin everything, the solution is faster twist, Savage offers 1:9 that's good but Tikka offers 1:8 that's for 80 gr bullets and with such rifle I wouldn't hesitate to shoot longer then 300 yards

Lawman
July 18, 2010, 08:41 PM
For the under 50 caliber rifle type there is a valid reason the police and military sniper rifles are Remington 700's. It is called accuracy and dependability. All of my standard and heavy barrel 700's shoot under 1/2 MOA.

Maverick223
July 18, 2010, 09:02 PM
For the under 50 caliber rifle type there is a valid reason the police and military sniper rifles are Remington 700's.Sure there is, it is cost and politics.

:)

TechBrute
July 18, 2010, 11:53 PM
Hehehehe....
:neener:

Seriously, though, Remington is a fine rifle, but if you think they are the only game out there, you need to step away from the Kool-Aid...

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