"Proof that an Arsenal AK is NOT combat ready"


PDA






depradio
July 11, 2010, 08:45 PM
I wanted to post this to see how you guys would respond. Especially Arsenal owners, because your experience can effectively confirm or disprove what this guy is saying..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riIXDi0RAcI

He was not happy with the way it performed, and he has separate videos where he tries to fit parts from other AK's inside his SGL, and they wouldn't fit. If all this were true, how would the Arsenal AK's be 'mil-spec' and deserve the reputation they attained? Especially with all the nutnfancy videos that have been uploaded lately.

This was the video I saw, and it personally had me reconsider whether I still want an Arsenal. :(

If you enjoyed reading about ""Proof that an Arsenal AK is NOT combat ready"" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jwsturr
July 11, 2010, 09:03 PM
Is it melted?

Is this melted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

Yes! But keeps on shooting...

John Parker
July 11, 2010, 09:13 PM
I wasn't aware that Arsenal was selling anyone a 'combat rifle.'

depradio
July 11, 2010, 09:17 PM
I wasn't aware that Arsenal was selling anyone a 'combat rifle.'


They advertise a Russian 'mil-spec' gun. Sounds pretty combat rifle to me!

Zack
July 11, 2010, 09:23 PM
I wasn't aware that Arsenal was selling anyone a 'combat rifle.'

They advertise a Russian 'mil-spec' gun. Sounds pretty combat rifle to me!

Untill I see the switch for full auto then I will believe this..

BTW Use wood grips, plastic melts. I do not think in the desert they use plastic grips!

fireman 9731
July 11, 2010, 09:25 PM
With 350 rounds in 10 minutes what does he expect? To not melt plastic? Heck, wood grips wouldn't fare well either!

sv51macross
July 11, 2010, 09:29 PM
I've heard of cheapo AR handguards melting, but the 'real' ones (Colt, Bushie, ect) standing-up to snuff. Perhaps Arsenal's handguards were IM'ed with cheap poly? Or does the SGL come with Bulgarian furniture?

Ohio Gun Guy
July 11, 2010, 09:39 PM
If thats not pre-1985(?) how is that legal? How long has arsenal been around?

(Not saying it shouldn't be, but just asking?)

Ian
July 11, 2010, 09:57 PM
His only complaint (which he spends 9 minutes repeating) is that 300 and some rounds basically as fast as he could fire them caused some deformation in the handguards. Well, no surprise - it's a standard rifle, not a light machine gun. You can damage any firearm by dumping ammo through it too fast. That's not a fault of the manufacturer, it's basic physics. The heat has to go somewhere.

I watched some of his other videos, and a few points:

Torx screws are much better for tight screws; less likelihood of stripping the screw.

He holds Romanian guns as the manufacturing standard, and considers it a failure when the current-production Russian gun (an SGL21 is a Saiga) doesn't have exactly the same clearances. Well, guess what - AKs were not that standard. They were made in a dozen different countries over 60 years, and no serious attempt was made to have them all interchange parts. Anyone who has build AKs from mismatched parts knows that some hand fitting will be required. This guy is holding the rifle to a standard it was never intended for.

I'm no Arsenal fanboy (don't own one, don't have the urge to), but this dude is being unfair and doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

atomd
July 11, 2010, 10:02 PM
Ok...so it's cheap plastic furniture on a relatively inexpensive gun and it melted around the edges but didn't really effect it's overall performance. This guy is kind of odd. Did he gun malfunction? I doubt it did because I'm sure he would have said so if it did.

This is the equivalent of saying "I drove my toyota corolla at 130mph for an hour straight and my air conditioning didn't work so well after that". My verdict on that says that Arsenal should put some better furniture on those guns (it looks sort of cheesy to begin with) but overall I think most people would be happy with their product.

Broken11b
July 11, 2010, 10:09 PM
I think he did say he had a malfunction... after he threw sand in the action.

So he fired it until he melted his handguards and had an operator induced malfunction, and than says its no good for real use...

Shear_stress
July 11, 2010, 10:10 PM
Oh my god! Romanian parts don't fit on a Russian gun! What were the Russians thinking!!!

I'm sure that rifle doesn't hold up next to the scores of actual, "combat ready" AK-103s he's handled as part of his role as the internet's foremost weapons expert ;)

Dimis
July 11, 2010, 11:25 PM
maybe im mistaken but dont all AKs have a heat issue in the handgaurd unless they have that aluminum heat shield between barrel/gastube and the handgaurds?

i recall reading that if you continualy dump mags through an AK with wood furniture you can burn or even (EEK!!!) set fire to the forward handgaurd

i may be wrong but id want to install a heat shield or buffering material in there no matter what brand it was

-v-
July 11, 2010, 11:29 PM
Umm....so what? Yes the cheap plastic hand guards that Arsenal puts on their guns as part of 922(r) are not quite mill-spec heat resistant. So if you dump 12 mags through it in rapid succession you will heat your AK up to the point where it is uncomfortable to hold, and the cheap non mill-spec plastic hand guards will begin to bubble a tiny bit.....biiig surprise there, I know.

About the only legitimate concern is that the paint-on finish on the barrel begins to run after the barrel heats up to very high temperatures. I think thats a legitimate concern. Good thing there's a phosphate finish under the water-repelling paint!

-e-: This is coming from an Arsenal SGL-21 owner, btw.

Ithaca37
July 11, 2010, 11:31 PM
Untill I see the switch for full auto then I will believe this..

BTW Use wood grips, plastic melts. I do not think in the desert they use plastic grips!

Damn, you better tell the polish they are doing it all wrong.

http://strikehold.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/polish_beryl_rifle_eotech1.jpg

-v-
July 11, 2010, 11:39 PM
They are doing it wrong! Duck-taping flash-lights and MILES gear to their guns?! Can we say ghetto-fabulous? :p

Ithaca37
July 11, 2010, 11:41 PM
From the video poster on youtube.

in response to being told he should get an AR.

#
MrAk47master
1 hour ago
@fot47 I have owned 4 AR15s. 3 exploded.....
MrAk47master 1 hour ago


This guy is so full of it.

Also, the melting he shows is not really significant. His whole premise is stupid and uninformed.

Ithaca37
July 11, 2010, 11:45 PM
They are doing it wrong! Duck-taping flash-lights and MILES gear to their guns?! Can we say ghetto-fabulous?

Ummm, you can go ahead and tell them that. Let me know how it goes.

BTW, I have seen our guys mount miles systems in all manners of configurations including tape.

black_powder_Rob
July 12, 2010, 12:15 AM
do you think the Polls would get mad if they dumped a few mags and the tape started to melt?

HorseSoldier
July 12, 2010, 01:34 AM
Guy in the video is a moron, like other people have said. Don't see much else to this story.

Though it would have been funny if at one point in the video we heard his mom knocking on the basement door to tell him dinner was ready . . .

atomd
July 12, 2010, 08:32 AM
do you think the Polls would get mad if they dumped a few mags and the tape started to melt?

Don't worry, that's "combat ready" tape. :D

unit91
July 12, 2010, 09:01 AM
They are doing it wrong! Duck-taping flash-lights and MILES gear to their guns?! Can we say ghetto-fabulous?

I believe the term is "field-expedient" :)

fireman 9731
July 12, 2010, 10:13 AM
Maybe somebody should show him this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c

happygeek
July 12, 2010, 02:24 PM
I can't imagine a scenario short of your FB being overrun when you would fire 350 rounds in 10 minutes in combat. If you were on patrol you would have just shot off almost all your ammo.

Even with a real M4A1, you don't want to fire much faster than 60 round a min when you're doing sustained fire. I think that's right about the max sustainable fire rate of the M4; I've hung out around 30 to 40 rounds a min for sustained fire on a range and didn't overheat the rifle. But then again, I had aluminum rail handguards.

Hatterasguy
July 12, 2010, 02:31 PM
Someone needs to explain to this kid that in the real world unlike an airsoft gun, or in COD guns get hot when you shoot them!:rolleyes:


Yeah 300 rounds down the barrel as fast as you can shoot will melt the grips, probably burn up wooden ones too. Its not a light machine gun. OTOH melted grips don't affect the function in the least.

Hatterasguy
July 12, 2010, 02:36 PM
maybe im mistaken but dont all AKs have a heat issue in the handgaurd unless they have that aluminum heat shield between barrel/gastube and the handgaurds?

i recall reading that if you continualy dump mags through an AK with wood furniture you can burn or even (EEK!!!) set fire to the forward handgaurd

i may be wrong but id want to install a heat shield or buffering material in there no matter what brand it was


They all do, its the nature of the beast, my Sig rifle does the same thing. The design keeps all the heat up forward so the working parts stay cool, which is good. The downside is that the heat has to go somewhere and the whole rifle isn't a heat sink like a DI AR; so the heat stays up front and it gets HOT!

Oceans
July 12, 2010, 04:13 PM
O.K Here is some info for the M-14 and rates of fire. This for a MIL SPEC QUALITY PRODUCED IN THE USA WEAPON FULLY INSPECTED BY ORDNANCE OFFICIALS. This from Field Manual 23-8 Under Section 1. Characteristics, 5. General Data, f.Operational Characteristics (3) rates of fire. these can be maintanined without danger to the firer or DAMAGE TO THE WEAOPN (a) Semiautomatic. Rounds per minute for a maximum period of:10 MINUTES 30.

So THE MAXIMUM SUSTAINED RATE OF FIRE FOR THE GREAT M-14 RIFLE that can be fired for 10 minutes without damage to the weapon or firer would be 300.

Orion8472
July 12, 2010, 04:53 PM
Does anyone else think that he sounds like a "lower voiced Nepolean Dynamite"??

Yeah, this guy is a dork. He makes this . . . .to be honest. . . . weak claim against Arsenal [I have no Arsenal firearms, myself] about it "melting", and it was just a few bubbles here and there AFTER firing around 300 rounds quickly through it. Does this guy expect it to be a miracle rifle?? I mean, seriously. That was a waist of almost 10 minutes to listen to this guy who "tests stuff" and makes stupid comments about how three AR's he owned "exploaded".

Fail.

JHansenAK47
July 12, 2010, 10:53 PM
Arsenal is the one of very few the manufacturers to actually put heat shields in their rifle handguards that sells made in the US components. I think he should buy an aluminum rail if he is going to get stupid with his rifle.
On my ROMAK I melted the handguard I had to the point it was uncomfortable to use. I wish I would have had a arsenal handguard. I only shot 7 mags and it was smoking after 5.
If you want to bash arsenal that is fine with me. I know I would buy an arsenal handguard if I was in the market for one.

481
July 12, 2010, 11:02 PM
Heh. Funny.

Gee, he slightly melted his Arsenal handguards by running alot of ammo through his AK really fast.

Now I must go and sell all of mine because he's proven them all to be "unworthy pieces of over-priced junk". :(
















NOT!

Orion8472
July 12, 2010, 11:08 PM
I questioned him, but he kept the same "not mil spec" statement up . . . . and that it malfunctioned when he threw sand inside the action. If you watch his other videos, it is clear that he nitpics the stupidest things. I've watched a few of what he has to offer, including him showing how to "quickly fire from a conceal carry". . . . .:uhoh: . . . .

Oh well. If he has fun doing it . . . . . . . . .whatever.

duns
July 13, 2010, 12:02 AM
What I saw from this video was that the plastic will melt if you fire 350 rounds in 10 min and a sprinkling of sand can jam the action.

On quite a number of websites, you can find a statement similar to the following:
It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand.So I thank MrAk47master (the guy who made the YouTube video) for busting the above myth. He has provided good information.

hank327
July 13, 2010, 12:52 AM
What a cretin... As mentioned, 350 rounds in 10 minutes is a lot from a fixed barrel hand held rifle. No surprise that the US made hand guards showed minor signs of being overheated. Other than that they looked fine and wouldn't impair the operation of the rifle a bit. Is it any surprise if you throw a hand full of dirt into a rifles guts that it has stoppages? Even an AK? The AK comes with a top cover for a reason, jeez...

regal
July 13, 2010, 08:11 AM
I agree this guy is a dork but I just bought a romanian SAR-2 AIMS-74 conversion for $200 less than an Arsenal AK-74 so I'm kind of happy to see at least some respect for Romanian AK's, I think they are underated because they are common.

Art Eatman
July 13, 2010, 09:50 AM
Enough snark for this session...The world is full of idiots, and we don't really need to rag on the poor dears here.

If you enjoyed reading about ""Proof that an Arsenal AK is NOT combat ready"" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!