AR-10 versus nice AR-15 build: advice? Suggestions?


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RP88
July 12, 2010, 01:08 AM
I am thinking in the near future of building or buying another AR. It would be something more delegated for long-range/bench shooting.

The current one I have is my middie that is (permanently) set up as my carbine.

I have two ideas: 20" AR-15, or go with a good AR-10.

With the AR-15, I'll probably build it off of a BCM 20" upper, and add a few nifty things like a good bipod, FF tube, and something like an ACOG or a good scope. Perhaps build a lower with a nicer - perhaps adjustable - stock. I'd use heavier bullets for the most part, of course. Then, there is the choice of building it off of a more suited upper in something like SS, 4110, etc.

Then, there is the AR-10. I honestly know nothing about AR-10 specs. I know very few names offering AR-10s at the time. I know nothing about how AR-10 specs and stats compare to the TDP quality of M4geries (e.g. "the infamous chart"). The only thing I know is that an AR-10 will most likely be the better long-range gun out-of-box in a standard configuration (i.e. not having to buy stainless barrels, etc.) because of the better ballistics offered by .308/7.62 NATO.

What would be some good ideas? How would a stock AR-10 with good ammo and a stock AR-15 with good ammo stack up?

The range is not really gonna exceed 400-500 yards no matter what, but just the fact that the range in mind is more than 200 yards makes me really interested in an AR-10.

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FTSESQ
July 12, 2010, 01:20 AM
Honestly, my 18" 6.5 Grendel flat out shoots most other rifles at the ranges you are looking for. I would strongly look into the 6.5G for the application you specify. I can shoot light weight 85gr varmint bullets up to 144gr FMJ's. That gives a lot of options, but in the "sweet spot" you have 123gr matchkings (and now Amax's) that are just great at any range. In a sense, you get to have your cake and eat it too. You get the light weight, soft recoil of the AR15, with the reach of the AR10, with less drift and less drop due to the 6.5mm bullet's higher B.C. and S.D. Check them all out and you will find the grendel to be a very nice option.

Dr.Rob
July 12, 2010, 01:29 AM
20 Inch? Long range bench gun? Blue it, put that classy wooden furniture on it and have yourself a slick early 60's looking space age rifle.

RP88
July 12, 2010, 01:37 AM
should I also turn it into a bolt-action? :D

As said, looking for suggestions. I'm not exactly looking to shoot sub-moa at 300+ yards, but a gun that holds good accuracy would be what I'm aiming for without looking into some sort of crazy M110-esque bank-breaker.

Z-Michigan
July 12, 2010, 09:30 AM
The accuracy:price ratio of the DPMS LR-308 series is almost unbeatable. For $1000 or a bit less, the free float models will often shoot sub-MOA with match ammo.

Of course, a .223 is going to be significantly cheaper to shoot when comparing ammo of similar quality (surplus to surplus, match to match). And all you would need for punching paper out to 500 yards.

taliv
July 12, 2010, 09:54 AM
if you want something kinda cool, the DPMS AR10 style chambered in 260rem is a good idea.


however

my advice would be the AR15 for 2 reasons. Hitting 10" steel plates at 600 yrds with an AR15 is pretty easy. Shooting CMP/NRA HP at 600 yrds with an AR15 service rifle / iron sights is very popular.

the two reasons are: ammo is much cheaper, so you can shoot a lot more and the experience is invaluable.

and, at that range, the 223 gets pushed around by the wind quite a bit, which is a disadvantage in a match, but is an advantage if you're trying to learn to shoot in the wind. the point is, if you get the 260rem and shoot at 400-500 yrds, unless you live some place really windy, you probably never put more than a minute or two on the gun. on a gun that keeps 1-2 minute groups to begin with, you'll never be able to distinguish error source, especially if ammo is expensive.

unit91
July 12, 2010, 10:00 AM
I think this is more of a .308 vs .223 (et al) question. If I had to pick one, I'd go for the AR-15 first just because of its urban utility -- that is, if you're looking for a "combat gun."

RP88
July 12, 2010, 01:46 PM
I already have that. My middie M4gery fits that quite well.

It's just that I know a lot of AR-15s but comparatively jack about AR-10s. So, I'm gonna have a natural bias towards something I already know thoroughly.

I was wondering if there is anything other than adding a new caliber to my collection that the AR-10 would pose over another AR-15.

The only thing on my mind really is how quality compares. For example, a good AR bolt is MPI and HPT tested, shot-peened, has a milspec insert spring, is properly staked on the gas key, etc.

What similar quality/"piece of mind" features are there to look for on AR-10 parts?

FMJMIKE
July 12, 2010, 08:03 PM
How many people you know have an AR-10 ??? :D Get the AR-10 !!!

Dr.Rob
July 12, 2010, 11:08 PM
Come on... look at the bottom of this page... http://ar15woodstocks.com/Products.html

That's one smoking sweet 6.8, and unique.

RP88
July 13, 2010, 01:00 PM
it is pretty

but it looks odd to put it on a gun from outer space.:D

Dr.Rob
July 14, 2010, 03:54 AM
Think Race Bannon/Johnny Quest and it rocks!

Friendly, Don't Fire!
July 14, 2010, 05:55 AM
I will only say that I have an AR-15 and a friend has the exact same AR that I have. We purchased two drop-in Timney triggers for the AR's (at about $212 apiece). We got the pre-set 3# triggers.

After several FTF's -- one when a coyote was in the woods, so close, I could hear him panting and I had the scope on his nose - knowing the bullet would be about 3" lower into his throat and body - lengthwise, I pull the trigger and get a very quiet "click!" Suddenly, I was scrambling - trying to load another round as Mr. 'Coy-dog' decides he's turning around and leaving me by myself with my gun and going back into the dense woods! I could have wrapped the gun around a tree, I was so angry!
Anyway, I did research and found that certain AR-15 drop-in triggers have that problem, not enough hammer force.

What people recommend is using the AR-10 Timney Drop-In Trigger in the AR-15. So, I called Timney and told them all about my story and how I have two "like-new" triggers here that I and my friend 'do not trust!" They were the skeletonized triggers.

Anyway, after being switched to about three different people to tell my story to, Timney mailed me two new AR-10 triggers (which apparently only come in 4# pull) and I sent them back my AR-15 Triggers! What a difference in primer hits! Using CCI 41 Mil-Spec Primers, the primers are now hit the way they should be! And, they were truly "DROP-IN" - fitting both guns perfectly! The hammer on the AR-10 Timney has a lot more metal on it, which makes it a heavier hammer, and I believe the hammer spring is more tense as well.

I also put two new JP Anti-Walk pins in place of the OEM pins. I had to grind just a tad off the length of the pins so they would tighten into the receiver, then blue-'loctited' them in place.

Now we are two happy campers and have nothing but POSITIVE things to say about TIMNEY:)as we had the triggers like two years, just hardly used them! I would say I had a total of four FTF's out of about 30 rounds I shot with my AR-15 3# trigger.

PandaBearBG
July 15, 2010, 10:59 AM
For the 400 - 500 yard range, might as well stick with the AR15, 5.56/.223 does just fine at that range and half the cost of shooting .306. Plus you would now have 2 rifles that you can share ammo with. I have a dedicated long range heavy scoped 20" AR and a light 16 carbine and they feel very different handling and shooting. IMHO .308 is overkill for 500 yard plinking, better suited for those 800 yard-ish or hunting application.

Your last sentence mentioned "more than 200 yards" leads me to believe you haven't tried pushing your skill and AR irons and all to the 500 yard line. It takes a little practice but it is very achievable and maybe you should practice with the one you got at longer ranges before you decide what you need. That little round can go the distance you want you just have to practice a bit.

AMerexican
July 15, 2010, 02:32 PM
And to go with the wood Throw your upper and lower receivers in the oven for a few hours I believe at about 350 and they turn a similiar color that Blends better with the wood. There was a thread a while back on Arfcom about this. Looked pretty cool. :D

dbshabo
July 15, 2010, 06:59 PM
I sold a Savage 10FP-LE2B (26" barrel, McMillen stocked bolt gun) to purchase an Armalite AR-10. I wanted a semi auto .308, so I thought. I regret that decision now.

The Savage was a tack driver right out of the box. The AccuTrigger is the best trigger I've ever shot. My AR-10 is a 2 -3 MOA gun at best, even with good quality match ammo. The .308 is a reach out and touch someone round and the AR-10 I have doesn't capitalize on that fact. Their accurate model is the AR-10T I think. I hope it shoots better than mine. The 10 is a good rifle, just not what I was expecting.

Shabo

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