[ShootAndHunt]

Hi Guys,

Want to buy a semi-auto rifle in .30-06 caliber. It seems to me the main available choices are Browning BAR and Remington 7400. I went to the gun shop and test handled the two rifles. The Remington 7400 is nice, but the Browning BAR feels really good. However, it's price is almost twice as much as 7400. Could any guy with experience tell me how these two rifles perform in the range and field? (Accuracy, reliability, maintance, ...).

I also found one common problem with these two rifles, their bolt is not so easy to take out for clean. Does the bolt on these semi-auto rifles need very often regular cleanning works (such like after one day's range shooting)? How do you guys do it?

If you think there is any other great semi-auto rifles, give me some info please, I might not be so restricted to the .30-06. But the price cannot be over $1000, and I hope it really good quality.

Thanks,

[Snorkel Bob]

Ive got a BAR with BOSS in a 270 win and it shoots 3/4 MOA with Winchester factory failsafes, its a kitten to shoot. I love it. stick with the BAR.

[ReadyontheRight]

I'd say the BAR -- as a Remington 740 owner. There's nothing really wrong with the Remington, the BAR just seems more solid. Also more spendy.

You might want to check out the new Benelli R1 Rifle. I handled one yesterday. It's light, expensive and very nifty.

http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/r1.tpl

Benelli is made in Italy. Remington is American. The Browning is probably made in Japan.

I usually use cleaning tools, Gun SCrubber and other chemicals to clean out the action rather than disassembly of the Rem 740. It's worked fine shooting ~20 shots per year as my brush gun for Whitetails.

[ReadyontheRight]

I also must say. How 'bout an M1 Garand?

www.odcmp.com

[BusMaster007]

I have a 7400/.30-06/Carbine and a BAR MkII/7mm/BOSS.
Both are good rifles.
The 7400 is a 'tool'.
The BAR is 'better' & 'nicer'.
Both are accurate.
The BAR is 'more accuate'.

If you're going for one, get the BAR.
The STALKER model might be less expensive.
Sights vs. BOSS? What do you need?
Scope choice? Same as above.

I'd go with the STALKER/BOSS and a 4 or 6X scope.

[CZ-100]

I also must say. How 'bout an M1 Garand?

I must Concur. M1 Garand :D

It's also a MUST have for any history loving American. I wanted one form the time I was a WEE Little lad. Finally got one ~4 yrs ago.

[ShootAndHunt]

Thanks for you guys' reply. It sounds that BAR is nicer than a 7400, but do you go for a BAR with or without Boss? I will probably using the scope. I know in theory the function of Boss, but never really shoot one? Is it really a must? Is it difficult to adjust for the s"weet point" for each kind of ammo?

Still concerned about the cleanning, I might 200~500 rounds per year, how to clean the actions on BAR or 7400 is really a myth for me when you cannot take them out?

[BusMaster007]

With the BOSS, you pick what you want to shoot and make the rifle shoot it accurately.

If you opt for regular sights, you'll have to buy some different ammo and find out what shoots 'pretty good' and then buy more of that for future use.

Check the Browning site for cleaning instructions.

[Jim K]

The BAR* will almost always shoot better than the Remington 7400, but both are perfectly adequate for the type of short range deer hunting found in the East. Both are sporting rifles, not meant to be taken down in the field.

IMO, the M1 rifle is a great battle rifle, but is simply too heavy and bulky to make a good sporting rifle. In addition, it may have to use a 5 round clip or have the magazine blocked to use in some states.

*The FN sporting rifle, not the U.S. Army light machinegun.

Jim

[Preacherman]

Another option is the Heckler & Koch SL2000. This is a clone of the Browning BAR, but with some interesting features (including the ability to accept 10-round magazines). To compare them, here's the SL2000 (from H&K's German Web site - the new US site doesn't have the pictures up yet) and Browning's BAR.

H&K:


http://www.heckler-kochjs.de/html/english/civil/03_huntingweapons/03_images/03_01_weapon_01.jpg



Browning:


http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/images/031001m.jpg

[artherd]

Here is my new 7400 18" carbine. Sweet shooter with this ASI compensator/stabalizer. I have not sighted it in properly yet (only 3 days old!) but will report on accuracy soon.

http://www.dreamns.com/7400/IMG_0396.JPG


http://www.dreamns.com/7400/IMG_0394.JPG

[BIGR]

I once owned the Remington 7400 in the 30.06 caliber. I hunted with it a year or two and took a few deer with it. I sold it and bought a Browning MK II Safari in 30.06. I still hunt with the Browning and have taken several deer with it. I put a Bell and Carson synthetic stock on it and a Nikon Monarch 3 X 9 X 40 scope on it before I statrted hunting with it. That gun just feels so good when I carry it. I feel more at ease carrying it than any other gun I own. Don't get me wrong the Remington is a great gun but the Browning beats it hands down when it comes to shooting. As far as cleaning the bolt I have never attempted to take it out. I don't even know if it comes out. I dont shoot it very much and have cleaned the gun the best I could. I have owned the gun since 1997 and it has not malfuntioned yet in any way. The Browning does cost more but for the money and the long haul I would put my money on the Browning anyday. Good luck on your decision.

[BusMaster007]

Tough call between the two, huh, guys?

The HK shown in the middle looks like a good compromise with a scope/sights/10-rd. magazine package.

[Kestrel]

BIGR,

What is the Safari model? How long is the longest barrel length on the BARs?

I'd love one that looks like Gewehr's.

Steve

[BIGR]

Steve,

It is a model that has the nice glossy stock and has the engraving on the reciever. I think the longest barrel is 24 inches(Magnum Models). I think the Mark II Safari BAR was designed a little different than the original BAR.

[ShootTheM14]

I am replying to a nearly 5 year old thread in case others looking for comparison information find this thread via a search engine.

I have owned two 7400s, and currently own several semi automatic military style rifles and a couple BARs. The original poster wanted info on:

1) semi-auto rifle preferably in .30-06 caliber
2) 7400 vs BAR (Accuracy, reliability, maintainability)
3) around $1000 maximum price (2003 dollars)

If the poster prefers 30-06, and weight of the rifle is not an issue, I agree a Garand might be the best choice. But, Garand prices have risen since 2003 and, IMHO, it is no longer easy to find one that is extremely accurate and also reasonably priced. In 2003 this would have been a fine choice.

Other semi auto military rifles available in .308 and/or 7.62 NATO and 30-06, other than the Saiga, are out of the price range. The Saiga, once again IMHO, is not as accurate as the other military rifles I own, but is very very reliable and it's accuracy can be improved with after market work. If cost is a major factor and you want a military style rifle you might want to consider a Saiga. It's a great rifle for the money.

If you are looking for a classic "hunting rifle" I strongly recommend spending the extra $$$ for a BAR over a 7400. I've shot several 7400s and owned two. I've sold them both and I rarely will sell a gun unless it's really problematic. I have two BARs and would not part with them. The BARs are also available in several excellent magnum calibers. I have one in .338 Win Mag and another in .300 Win Mag. I love both rifles and the .300 is among my favorite rifles. It's a tack driver at 500+ yards. I know guys BS about how their guns shoot, but I'm not doing that.

NOTE: I shoot competitively, practice all the time and do a lot of work on my hand loads, rifles and marksmanship, so I can get the most out of all my rifles.

I feel the BAR is far superior to the 7400. The 7400 is prone to FTE and FTLs. IOW, a 7400 is NOT reliable based on my experience. It's very particular to ammo sizing issues and also is not as accurate as the BAR even when everything goes right. I feel both rifles require similar effort to disassemble, but the fit of parts and quality of parts on the BAR is far superior. The BAR comes in various configurations and all are attractive in appearance, particularly the Safari model. The 7400 is plain looking by comparison, not that I personally care how pretty my rifles are, but some folks care about this and the BAR is beautiful. My wife does not like guns, but she even comments about how nice my BARs look. She says they are my best looking rifles.

In short, the BAR is a beautiful rifle. I would not sell my BARs unless forced, but if forced I'd be willing to sell a BAR to a friend or give it to a loved one. I would never sell a 7400 to anyone I liked or might run into again. I would discourage anyone I cared about from buying a 7400. If someone gave me a 7400, it would be for sale in my local FFLs place the next day.

If you want to spend several thousand on a semi there are many other fine choices such as a gas driven version of the AR10 or an M1A, but these weapons (and many other fine rifles) are out of the stated price range.

If you do choose a BAR, I'd consider the .300 Win Mag chambering. The BAR in this caliber is a fine weapon and hits hard at long range but is, IMHO, much easier to shoot than other comparable magnum calibers which might shoot flatter, but have far more felt recoil.

I hope this post helps someone avoid making the mistakes I made with a 7400. I was convinced (twice) that I could make a 7400 as reliable and as accurate as my other semis. I never achieved the accuracy but accuracy was acceptable. The main problem is reliability and quality. I expect a properly maintained rifle to work every time and with a 7400. Some reliability can be achieved with a lot of custom load work or finding factory load that it "likes" and it is just not worth it, especially if you demand the rifle work pretty much every time you pull the trigger (except for the unavoidable stove pipe on occasion).

Maybe you'll get lucky with your 7400 but I would not risk it if I were you. My BARs are not particular about ammo, super accurate, very reliable, easy to maintain and joy to shoot.

People I know who own BARs love them. People I know who own 7400s shoot rarely or sell them.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention 7400s have something called the soft rail / rail battering problem which basically ruins the rifle should the rail fail. I never ran into it, but I sold both of mine before I'd shot 1000s of rounds. Since I shoot all the time I need rifles that can last.

Here are a few links:

http://www.wisnersinc.com/additional_info/Remington_7407427400.htm
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=432059
http://originaldissent.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-1591.html

I wish everyone good shooting.

[jakk280rem]

both of these rifles are fine weapons. the bar is superior in fit and finish. however, i would recomend the remington 750 woodmaster. i assume you are looking for a hunting rifle. as little as they get fired, a well maantained 750 would outlast you. take the money you save on the remington and buy a high quality optic.

[RX-178]

Out of the box, I'd choose a Browning BAR over a 7400.

But if you intend to do any aftermarket modification at all, the 7400 is the better bet, and is also more suitable to modify into a home defense weapon (the pleasures of firing a 30-06 indoors, potentially without hearing protection notwithstanding :D). There's a version of every single Knoxx Industries shotgun stock that will fit a Remington 7400, and www.remington7400.com (Accuracy Systems Inc.) offers many parts and services to improve the accuracy of the weapon.

[DougW]

Great to hear how good the 7400 is, since I will be shooting mine (recently acquired) for the first time tomorrow!:uhoh:

I'll let you know the results.

[browningguy]

I'm just amazed that a 5 year old thread would get resurected. Surely there has to be something more timely to make a post about.

[R.W.Dale]

Still concerned about the cleanning, I might 200~500 rounds per year, how to clean the actions on BAR or 7400 is really a myth for me when you cannot take them out?

I'll interject some useful info into this ancient thread.

How to clean a BAR or remington 7400/7600

1. remove all soft parts, wood plastic ect excluding the plastic bolt cover on the remington

2 hose down all internals liberally with a can of brake parts cleaner and allow to dry

3 lightly reoil aforementioned internals with a aerosol can of Rem-Oil

4 reattached removed parts and shoot

I've detail stripped a rem 7400 and I don't recommend it except for one of those once or twice in the gun's lifetime type situations

[BargainHunter]

It works as a single shot, but I've had it looked at by two gun shops, who told me it was fine. $100 later, plus the ammo I've wasted and time, and it still doesn't work as a semi auto. The last shop said it was the magazine causing feeding problems, and they charged me for "fitting" the magazine. But they didn't ask if I wanted a new magazine. What is the deal?

Someone told me to try using a shotgun cleaning copper bristle brush to scrub the hell out of the chamber. I tried that but I guess it wasn't enough.




For 50c to 100c a round, this gun is the biggest waste ever, because it has not worked properly since I got it.

If anybody here just loves these things or has some magic trick up thier sleeve, email me mohdoggies@yahoo.com. I want to sell it.

[TCB in TN]

I have had good results from the 7400, but some haven't. I really like the Bar, good guns, shoot great, and are real easy on the eyes. If you are looking for a hunting rifle either is fine. If there are other purposes in mind then I would go with the Garand, or perhaps a 30-06 saiga. They are AK tough and while they are less pleasing to the eye they are fine rifles, from all that I have heard. All should meet your budget.

[Brad Clodfelter]

ShootAndHunt,

The boys here have steered you right. The Browning Bar is the best semi-auto high powered rifle on the market. It also is the best shooting as well. I know, I used to own one. I wished I still had it, but I needed to move it to suit another want. I had a Bar Mark II Safarin 270(BOSS). You wanted to know if the BOSS worked, well I will tell you my rifle would shoot groups way under an inch. My buddy had the same rifle w/o the BOSS, and his shot very well, but not as good as mine with the BOSS. I never really shot it for groups that much, but when I first bought the rifle as new, I sighted it in at 50yds to be about deadnut. I then shot it at 100yds. The first 3 shots went into a .580ctc group. I shot some Win Fail Safe loads that came in a box as a bonus of 4 rounds. At 100yds, all 4 shots with the Fail Safes went into the .6 range. This gun would flat ass shoot. It shot as well as any bolt action I ever owned with maybe the exception of a Remington Sendero 25-06 and a Cooper 17HMR. The thing I found out about the BOSS is they do in fact work. I think they would work even better if they were a little heavier. But for hunting purposes they worked plenty good. Also the other thing I learned about the BOSS is that regardless of how many rounds you would shoot whether 5 shots are 10, the bullets kept hitting about the same exact spot unlike other barrels that seem to wonder the shots once the barrel heats up.

[TexasRifleman]

Here is the Safari model, though I didn't catch the BOSS in the photo.....

I recommend the BOSS. It does work.

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/safari.jpg

[Blacksmoke]

This is a thread worth revisiting on a five year cycles as new shooters come and old ones go off to join Messers. Colt, Browning, Garand, etc. I have owned all of the above. THe Renmington was the first to go. The BAR (sport rifle) wil be the last to leave. The Garand is in the middle. Yes, I have hauled it around to chase mule deer (with 5 round clips in the magazin). It is indeed heavy and cumbersome. If the deer were plainning on shooting back the Garand would be my first choice. Since they don't there is not reason to haul around that much weight. One thing in the Garand's favor. If you do get a shot that is a setup, the only ones I take anymore, that Garand sure does lay across a rest and line up nice on the target. It feels real good- confidence is a big part of hitting the target where I want to.

The Browning is no toy. I have fired them offhand just about as fast as I could getting it real hot in the hopes if making a misfeed. Nope, that rifle will keep on feeding and firing for as long as ammo is provided. When hot I saw little departure from the ususal groupings. i am not quite at the 3/4 MOA that Snorkel Bob is, but moving in the right direction.

[cat9x]

I've made several posts about the BAR and it's inherent accuracy. Obviously I would recommend the Browning BAR.

My MKI does not have BOSS but the standard hooded front and flip rear sight. My father's MKII Safari has the ported BOSS system. There is no difference in accuracy between the two rifles. I can say however, that my .308 non Boss has considerable more recoil than my father's .270 BOSS. Both rifles are topped with Zeiss conquest 3x9x40's.

Good lucking finding what you want. Also remember that the Browning will hold a higher resale value.

[TexasRifleman]

There is no difference in accuracy between the two rifles.

Do you reload? I found a significant difference between BOSS and no BOSS as I developed loads for BARs over the years. I was always able to tune a load for a bit tighter groups with the BOSS installed.

With factory loads there probably isn't much difference.

[jjduller1946]

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll39/jdfuller19461946/Guns/BAR30-06-1.jpg
I have the BAR, Belgium made 30-06 setup with a Bushnell 3x9 scope. It has iron sights that I keep zeroed just in case.
The Browning has pretty tight chamber tolerances that I found out reloading for it. But I figured out the deal and now reload for it with 165 gr BT.

After some experimentation with different loads I found one that my BAR really prefers over factory ammo. It is pretty amazing how differently the various loads performed.

I have never owner a BOSS but my next rifle, a Browning A-Bolt 338 Win Mag will be with a BOSS. I like the concept of being able to adjust the BOSS to account for different barrel/rifle harmonics make sense, in addition to quieting the recoil of the 338.

All things considered, I think you will be happy you spent a little more for the BAR. I like the way mine feels. It is a great all around rifle.

I just looked on Gunbroker and found a page full of 30-06 BARs, new, used, with scopes, etc.

Happy gun shopping!

[cat9x]

Do you reload? I found a significant difference between BOSS and no BOSS as I developed loads for BARs over the years. I was always able to tune a load for a bit tighter groups with the BOSS installed.

With these groups and factory ammunition I dont need to reload, especially in a hunting rifle. Barnes X 168gr. 100 yards. The BOSS rifle shoots identical with 150gr. Barnes X

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x82/cat9x/DSC03775redo.jpg

[hometheaterman]

Even though this thread is several months old I'm going to bring it back up as like said above it's a good reference thread.

Anyway I have a Browning BAR 30-06. Mine is just the BAR as it's the older model. It was made in 1990 according to the serial number. It looked almost new only had one nick and one other spot when I got it. Now has some scratches and dings and stuff as I use it hunting instead of letting it sit in a gun cabinet all the time.

Mine works fine for hunting but I can not get it to group well at all. I finally found out I can get the best groups out of Federal Fusions in 150 grain. I haven't tried the 165 grain Fusions as far as checking the groups. I've shot them but never checked the groups.

Now I think some of it may very well be my shooting but I've also had someone else shoot it whom is a better shot and he experienced about the same thing I have with it.

I originally shot Winchester Soft Points in 165 grain and they got to where I couldn't find them instock so I switched to the 150 grain power points. I accidentally got a box of 150 grain Silvertips instead. I shot them at a buddies in a vise and I couldn't figure out why I kept missing the target at 50 yards after the first shot. I shot 6 times. Well, I went up there to check it out and turns out I wasn't missing I was hitting the same hole. You could count where 6 hit and just made one big hole. This impressed me. I think part of it is me shooting as it does fine in his vise but he only has a 50 yard range and I can shoot decent in my setup at 50 yards.

I decided I didn't want to use those for deer so tried the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips and couldn't get them to group. They were all over a 8" target. I finally after several boxes tried some new ammo.

I tried Remington 165 Grain Core Lokts, Winchester Silvertips in 150 grain again at 100 yards this time, Federal Fusion in 150 grain, Winchester Power Points in 150 grain. I couldn't get them to group well at all. All of them were close enough to hit a deer but they weren't great. Except for the Federal Fusions. I put them all in about a 2" group. The rest I couldn't do that with it was more like a 5 or 6" group at 100 yards. I'm not sure if it's me or not. The buddy only shot it with the ballistic tips but he said he wondered if something was wrong with the gun.

I know I'm not the best shot but I shot about a 1" or 1 1/2" group with my muzzle loader easily. With my .22 I can shoot great groups at 36 yards though but at 60 or so I can't shoot much better than the rifle at 100. I shoot off a card table that isn't super sturdy but it's not bad either. Being that I can shoot the muzzle loader decently makes me think it's the rifle.

Anyway I stuck with the Fusions and I constantly get about a 2" group at 100 yards with them. To me this isn't good but I came to the realization that I did buy this to deer hunt with and it's close enough to not miss any deer or if I do it's my fault. Can I squirrel hunt with it? Probably not but who wants to squirrel hunt with a 30-06 anyway.

I tried the Federal Power Shok soft points in 150 grain later and got a bigger group with those. I got about a 3" group with those and they shot in about the same spot as the Fusions. I then shot the Fusions right after it and got a 2" group again.

The Fusions have just gotten too expensive.

I don't like that it wont shoot great groups but 2" is good enough for hunting you just often can't even hit the bullseye as it shoots around it.

I've thought about selling it but not sure if I want to or not.

I like the gun but it doesn't seem to be all that accurate. Like I said in a vice at 50 yards it's great so it may just be me. I can shoot decent at 50 yards too though without that vise so it makes me think it's something about 100 yards it doesn't like but I don't see how that is possible.

I like the gun and would recommend it but if you are looking for a super accurate gun this may not be it. I've heard other accuracy complaints but then again I've heard some say theirs shoots great. They seem to be picky when it comes to ammo.

[familyman555]

I wonder if anyone has tried the Remington 750 Woodsmaster, which is the replacement to the 7400. I am/was seriously considering the Remington 750 over the BAR in a 308 caliber. The main reason is price.

[rodell]

Hometheaterman,

I think you might need a good cleaning, and, to make sure everyting is put back together with factory torque specs. It should shoot better than that.

Bob

[R.W.Dale]

buy all accounts the BAR is a more accurate rugged and reliable platform BUT

This is one of those rare occasions where I would suggest obviously the inferior platform because of handling characteristics alone. The BAR's are unwieldy bricks in the ergonomics dpt compared to the svelte rem 7400/7600 platform. You shoulder up one of these Remingtons and it's as though they're already pointed at what you want to put a bullet hole in.

To me the Remington have the perfect balance of speed and handling for a hunting rifle

[robctwo]

Had the Remington, sold it. Bought the BAR lightweight Stalker in 300WSM with the BOSS muzzle break. Scary accurate. Loud. Great gun. Bought the little brother in .308 without the BOSS. Not quite as accurate. Not as loud. Love them both.

This is a really old thread.

[hometheaterman]

Hometheaterman,

I think you might need a good cleaning, and, to make sure everyting is put back together with factory torque specs. It should shoot better than that.

Bob

Well, when I was having these issues I thought soo too. I got the barrel to where the patches were coming out spotless and have taken it back to this condition every time after shooting it. I've got the barrel super clean although I will say I've never taken it apart and cleaned the gas system but would this matter accuracy wise? The manual says only take it apart if the bolt is closing sluggish. Mine isn't so I just spray it down without taking it apart as that part functions fine.

I will say I shot 100% better as in a one hole group with 6 shots at 50 yards at a buddies. Probably a 1" -1 1/2" group but it was all one hole but that was in his vise and at 50 yards. Without his vise I can do decent at 50 yards but not 100 for some reason. He didn't have a 100 yard range.

I'm going to post up pictures of my targets.

Here are my first two shots when I tested the Federal 150 grain soft points.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/first2shotswithFederal150grainsoftp.jpg

Needless to say I was impressed. I've done this a few other times with various ammo but it's not often.

I was impressed though. However, I didn't get any more groups like that.

Here are my next 4 shot group from the Federal 150 grain soft points
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/Federal150grainsoftpoints.jpg

If you measure it's about 3". I don't think the two together were 2 in a row but I can't remember for sure. I think I shot high then back next to the first one but don't hold me to that.

I was shooting 1-2 shots and letting the barrel cool. It gets hot after 3 shots so I was only doing 2 max.

Here is my group with the Federal Fusions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/FederalFusion150grain.jpg

As you can see it's right under a 2" group there.

That's about the best shooting ammo I've used with the Federal soft points being 2nd. The Winchester Ballistic Tips I wanted to use are all over a 8" target. I'd say a 5-6" group would be being lucky. The Remington Core Lokts aren't much better.

The 6 shot group in one hole I shot at a buddies at 50 yards was Winchester Silvertips but I can't get it to do much with them at 100 yards.

Some of the shooting may be me to be honest but I don't think all that much of it is. I had a buddy shoot it with the Winchester Ballistic tips and he said he wondered if something was wrong with the gun. That's when I tried many types of ammo.

I've come to realize this is good enough for deer hunting but not as good as I'd like still. I've had some people tell me that's horrible groups for a BAR and others tell me it's great groups for a semi auto.

Just for an example of my shooting another gun at 100 yards here is my muzzle loader at 100 yards I shot.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/hometheaterman/TargetIshotwithmuzzleloader.jpg

I shot to the left as you see. I adjusted the scope and shot the middle 3. If I can do that with my muzzle loader I'm not seeing why I can't with the BAR.

[robctwo]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/300WSMTarget.jpg

This is a few years old, but the 300WSM BAR is still shooting this accurate with the right loads.

[moooose102]

if you can afford the BAR, go for it. you will not be sorry. especially if you are relitively young, and have lots of years left. there is an old, true saying, "buy quality and you will never be sorry, buy cheap, and you will pay for it over and over". there are many things in life this applies to, especially firearms! kind of like the difference between a Lincoln, and a Mercedes, only more so.

[hometheaterman]

So are the groups horrible on mine? Should I send it into Browning or just leave it like it is as it's good enough to hunt with?

[hometheaterman]

Bump. Do you guys think I should send it into Browning? I almost did last year but wanted it for hunting season. I can now as I have time but I don't really want to have to waste ammo sighting the scope back in when I get it back as that often takes me forever. What do you guys think.

[robctwo]

Sighting in should take three or four rounds. I know a guy that swears by the one round technique. Shoot one round with cross hairs on the bullseye. Clamp down hard on the gun in the rest. Have your assistant move the scope to center on where the bullet went, and you're done.

I usually shoot a few more just for fun.

Do you have a local gun smith who could take a look at it?

My .308 only shoots 1 1/2-2" groups at 100 yards, and that is good enough for me for hunting. I don't shoot 2" groups off hand in the field with normal game behaviors.

[hometheaterman]

When I went through trying to find a gunsmith last year to look at it one looked and said the barrel was just really dirty. It was but we got it clean and the rest all told me they didn't know of anything to do or look for if it wasn't shooting well. None of them seemed to be much help.

[ShootTheM14]

hometheaterman - Some of those groups are not that bad for the type of ammo you are using. I think you could hunt with the ammo that shot best as long as you know here to place your shot. Keep practicing and your groups will improve. I am always practicing and my shooting improves as a result.

For whatever it's worth, my BARs all seem to like heavy bullets and, like every other semi I own, they are more particular than my bolts in the same caliber. In .338 I do much better with 250gr than 225gr and in 300 Win Mag I use 208gr amax or 210gr match kings exclusively.

If I were you I'd at least try a heavier bullet. Try buying something with a 180gr or heavier bullet. I don't load 30-06 but I looked at Midway and they have factory 30-06 ammo with bullets up to 220gr and many loads are done at 180gr.

If you want to shoot at very long range, make sure the bullet has a ballistic tip and uses a boat tail design. I like the Sierra match king HPBT (not a hunting bullet BTW) or the Hornady amax or SST.

If you are only looking for hunting accuracy at normal ranges try something loaded with 180gr Remington pointed soft points (Core-LOCK PSP). They are good hunting bullets and accurate at typical hunting ranges. They are not boat tail or ballistic tip but they are great for harvesting game at ethical hunting range.

Every rifle is different as to what loads it likes but for my BARs at least the heavier bullets produced much tighter groups.

[familyman555]

I was swayed by the thought of saving a little money and bought a new Remington 750 in .308 a couple months ago instead of a BAR and have been extremely frustrated by it.:cuss: I wanted to be able to reload for it and have been unable to get it to cycle reliably with hand loads. I have tried all sorts of powder loads, bullet weights, bullet tip styles and have been consistently gotten about 25% jams. It works mostly ok with Remington Core-lokt factory ammunition. I have only had them jam once.

I tried some foreign Bear ammunition and they jammed every time they cycled. Plus I had one fail to fire that sucessfully fired on a second hit. I could figure that was a problem with the cheap ammo but it could also be that the 750 is super sensititive to what ammo it gets.

I have a new magazine coming to replace the new magazine that came with it as a last hope to get it working. If it doesn't work any better I am going to trade it in on a BAR!

[browningguy]

You get what you pay for. I've got two BAR's and no Remingtons. I hear the WInchester shoots decent but I have not had a chance to shoot one yet. The Benelli is also a great gun but you will be hard pressed to find one under $1k, usually seem to be around $1100.

[Leaky Waders]

Hometheatreman,

I'm no expert...I've shot only a few BAR's and everyone was impressed with my targets. I own a 270 safari and my dad owns a 3006 belgian.

As to your targets...

1) What kind of scope is on your rifle?
2) Are you changing the magnification in between groups? Like, do you shoot at 50 yards at 3x then jump to 6 or 9x at 100 yards?
3) What kind of rings and bases are on them?

Just curious.

LW

[ALdeerhunter]

I am distraught! Yes, I know this is an old thread but hopefully people are still reviewing it. I recently purchased an 08 BAR Long Trac 3006. I also purchased a Zeiss scope for it. Horrible groups using a gun vise! I am so disappointed. I only shot Remington Core Loc 165 grains through it. After reading the thread, apparently ammunition brand and weights are very important. The only real recommendation I saw was the Federal Fusions. I need factory ammo. Does anyone have other successful factory brands and loads you could recommend? I would be most apprecative!!

[TexasRifleman]

Well most people load their own I would guess, but I did get a couple of boxes of Federal's with the Barnes MRX bullet, 180gr.

They shot very well in my rifle.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=634

It really is trial and error though if you have to use factory loads.

[double bogey]

I have a .243 BAR that shoots fine. However my .270 BAR shoots higher each consecutive shot. Had a smith look at it, said he fixed but no difference. Any ideas? I would like to keep the gun as it was my fathers. He thought it was the scope, but we replaced it and no difference. Put that scope on another rifle and it worked fine.

[Hunt480]

I've had my 270 BAR for about 15 or 16 years now killed so many deer lost count, I call it the rut rifle ,its the only time I use a rfle rest of the time I'm handgunnin. But I got no complaints with my BAR it is and old friend.

[Snakum]

It has been my experience that an older 742 in exe condition and few rounds through it can be a very reliable and accurate semi. I've owned two now and I really liked them. Sold both only because I made money on them. Now, on the
"new and improved" 750 ... I can tell you for certain that it ain't really new and it's definitely not improved. Everyone I know who has one hates it and can't get it to cycle (two friends one acquaintance). I'd take a well=preserved 742 over a new 750 any day.

But against a BAR? No contest. If you have to have a semi there is really only one smart choice for most of us. If I had a semi hunter again it'd be browning for sure.

[deadeye1122]

ALdeerhunter, I have a 7mm bar(1979 made) that despise remington ammo. Not so much for accuracy but just to cycle the action. Shoots and no eject, load a shell jams in the chamber. That said it eats winchester super X like candy with decent MOA in 150 gr.




sorry wrong year an manufacture 1991 is correct.

[Ridgerunner665]

There is no comparison...the BAR is a far better rifle, in every way.

[robctwo]

With the factory ammo sometimes it's the bullet, sometimes it's the weight, sometimes it's the powder. I reload, and have the same variables. I'd try something in 150, 165, 180 and 200 gr to see where the gun's sweet spot is, then shop a couple different brands in that weight.

My 300WSM BAR has the BOSS which is designed to tune the barrel vibrations to get a consistent group. Most of my lightweight hunters will not shoot more than three or four shots in a tight group until cold again. My .243 Win model 70 will shoot two or three in a dime, then stretch out to 2-4" once warmed up. I never shoot it four times at any animal.

I think posting every year or two on a thread is fun.

I'm working on some 110 gr loads for the 300 right now for paper and varmints.

[d2wing]

The 7400 and 742 I have are accurate and handle nicely. I did have one that
had an action failure, a 742 that was not properly cared for. The Browning had a better rep in most quarters. I have had trouble with bent, improperly loaded or dirty magazines. If you're having trouble check you mags and feed ramp. Make sure the nose of the cartridge is high enough to feed.

[fletchbutt152]

My Dad Has one made in 1980 or 81 and I have one made in 2000 or 01 and both shoot dime size five shot groups. We've got $50 3x9 scopes on them. Fantastic. Dad's gun just got back from browning with a new bolt carriage (or whatever you call it). The old one cracked in half as he was shooting at a 12 pointer or better with a drop tine. Lucky the gun didn't blow apart. A browning smith said it was only the second one that he'd ever seen that had that happen to it.

We got those groups with 130 or 150 grain core-lokt (around 13 bucks a box i think i paid for them).

Federal in the blue wally world box (also around 13 bucks a box) shot nickel size groups. We must have gotten lucky, but they both shoot great.

[NWCP]

I own a Belgium made Browning BAR in .338 Win Mag. Browning makes a solid rifle that should last a lifetime, or two.The .338 Win Mag is a fairly punishing round but the Browning mitigates the recoil pretty well. It's still not a day at the range cartridge. 30-06 should be reasonably tame by comparison. Even at that I'm not sure you'd want to shoot 30-06 in any rifle all day. Not only would it get pricey, but it would eventually wear you out. If you have the money go for the Browning. JMHO.

[Mr. T]

I own the 7400 and my dad has the BAR both are in 30.06; I've shot both and without question the BAR is the superior weapon in every way. The 7400 would do fine for you as a deer rifle there's no doubt, but you are asking which is the better gun and I am saying without a doubt it's the BAR. It's considerably more money, because simply put it's considerably more gun.

[berettashotgun]

Had a 7400 - handled like a dream, shot 1-1.5moa. Excellent rifle.
Loved the grip and balance. Accidentally made it into a single shot, but putting the trigger group in properly resolved that issue.
Own a half dozen or so B.O.S.S.equipped rifles - I like the B.O.S.S. system; but I think there is a little hype in the salesmanship. Never seen a bench shooter using one - :rolleyes: go figure.....
Bought a SXR in 270wsm, last year, and it is still in the box. Got the Talley rings in for it, now I guess I might get to shoot it. I'll let you know.
Always wanted a Belgium BAR for looks alone - but I do believe the Japanese products are every bit as good - if not better.
I don't like how the BAR feels in my hands as compared to a 7400, I'd take the 7400 any day over the BAR for say..... skeet shooting. :D
I really like how the Remington feels, shoulders, and points.
Accuracy wise - you fellas need to lighten up, 4 MOA is EASILY minute-of-deer.

[Hunt480]

There is no comparison...the BAR is a far better rifle, in every way.

I see it that way too.