NFA in PA?


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Prophet
July 12, 2010, 11:53 PM
Does anyone know of material I could read to learn about NFA law and procedure in PA? I'd heard something about it being illegal to have a loaded shotgun or rifle in a vehicle in PA unless it was a short-barreled gun having a $200 tax stamp... I am unaware of whether having a LTCF changes this or not.

Thanks!

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Riss
July 13, 2010, 12:26 AM
A CC permit will allow anything to be carried loaded in the vehicle. Only prohibitions would be during hunting season when I would not even carry a long gun in the car lest an over zealous Game Warden would get the wrong idea. Without a CC permit you are not allowed to have any loaded firearms in the vehicle. Gun and ammo must be kept separate. And the ammo if anything, and not the gun should be accessible to the occupants of the vehicle. Guns laws are listed on many websites including the NRA or ILA website. The BATFE also has a book which lists all state and local ordinances and if I recall you can download the book off of their site as they no longer make the book out of paper.

General Geoff
July 13, 2010, 12:31 AM
A CC permit will allow anything to be carried loaded in the vehicle.
THIS IS INCORRECT! DO NOT KEEP A LOADED TITLE 1 LONG GUN IN YOUR CAR!


Parts of Pennsylvania's Uniform Firearms Act (UFA) have very peculiar definitions of "firearm." This is why (with a LTCF) you can carry a loaded SBR or SBS in your car, but you can't keep a loaded title 1 long gun in your car at all, LTCF or not.

from the UFA (http://paopencarry.org/uniform-firearms-act):

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

You can keep a title 1 long gun in your vehicle as long as it is unloaded with ammunition in a separate container. Loaded detachable magazines are fine as long as they are in said separate container.

"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm.


edit; it should be mentioned that nothing in the UFA proper, prohibits the carry of loaded long guns in a vehicle. That prohibition is contained in the game laws of the state.

Prophet
July 13, 2010, 09:37 AM
Understood. So a separate container would be like a duffel bag, glove compartment, coffee can, etc (say I wanted to keep something that was quick to load with loose ammo like a break-action shotgun in the back seat of the truck). And this could be done without a permit. Is this your understanding of the laws?

jonnyc
July 13, 2010, 04:36 PM
So, in PA, I'm illegal if I put a loaded mag in my pistol, in a pouch, in the range bag, in my back seat, going to and from the range?

unloved
July 13, 2010, 04:55 PM
So, in PA, I'm illegal if I put a loaded mag in my pistol, in a pouch, in the range bag, in my back seat, going to and from the range?

If you don't have a LTCF, yes.

(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
(16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).

Unless you meet the requirements of one of the above exceptions (such as going to and coming from the range) it's illegal to have an unloaded handgun in a vehicle as well.

jonnyc
July 13, 2010, 11:34 PM
OK, I have the license, so I'm kosher.

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