Long Range Rifle Shooting Question


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Niklaus
July 13, 2010, 04:34 PM
Hello! I love shooting rifles! at long distances! however i would like some input from some more experienced members before i go buy a gun and scope. I already have my gun picked out: Remigton 700 VTR. it is a .308 with a 12" twist rate and 22 inch barrel. What i need help with is finding a good scope that can consistently shoot 6inch groups at about 400-600 yards. the budget im working with is about 500-600 dollars so keep this in mind. ANY INFO AT ALL WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED! thanks! Niklaus.

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taliv
July 13, 2010, 04:51 PM
welcome to THR

1. rem700 used to be pretty good, but lesser of late. savage seems to have the reputation for sub-MOA out of the box factory rifles these days

2. 12" twist is pretty varminty.

3. don't skimp on scope rings

good luck and post pics when you get it together

General Geoff
July 13, 2010, 05:06 PM
the budget im working with is about 500-600 dollars so keep this in mind.

This budget is just for the scope and rings, right?

Jim Watson
July 13, 2010, 05:14 PM
Do you handload or have a budget for factory match ammunition at $1.50 a pop?

The 12" twist will handle a 175 gr SMK as used in military M118LR. Probably more but that is a good place to start.

DIM
July 13, 2010, 05:40 PM
I have 308 with 1:12 twist, and on 300 - 500 yards I shoot 155 or 168 HPBT bullets, yesterday I even tried 168 grain A-Max they grouped nicely 1.6" on 300 yards, but with different load on 500 they grouped 5.3" 5 shots. For the scope I use Nikon Buckmaster 6-18X

rcmodel
July 13, 2010, 05:43 PM
consistently shoot 6inch groups at about 400-600 yards.Consistent 6" groups at 600 yards is going to be a tough row to hoe with most factory ammo.
Not even considering the rifle, scope, your shooting skill, wind, & range conditions.

That's 1 MOA at 600 yards you are talking about.

rc

USSR
July 13, 2010, 05:49 PM
I would recommend the Sightron SII Series of scopes which can be purchased for $300 - $400, and then buy a good 20MOA picatinny rail and a set of 1" tactical rings such as TPS offers. I agree with Jim that the 175gr Sierra MatchKing is the bullet to use.

Don

DIM
July 13, 2010, 05:59 PM
Would 175 SMK fly slower 2400fps drop quicker then 155 or 168 SMK? 175 one the other hand does offer better BC specially when windy...

Hangingrock
July 13, 2010, 08:07 PM
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/lowflash/Big%20Bore/P1010029_edited.jpg
My 40X rifle in 7.62mm-NATO its kind of old like me.
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/lowflash/Big%20Bore/P1010031_edited.jpg
Related gear
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/lowflash/Big%20Bore/P1010002.jpg
Related reloading components

What youíre viewing is some shooting equipment thatís reaching semi- obsolescence along with the operator :). If I told you that I used a Flecker scope at one time youíd wonder what in hell he is mumbling about. You might recognize Unertl I had couple of those also.

One thing that hasnít changed is long range starts after 600yds not at 600yds.:what:;)

Good Luck!

browningguy
July 13, 2010, 08:11 PM
I use a 6.5-20 Weaver Grtand Slam for anything over 300 yards and it has been a fine scope, but if sticking to 600 yards I would probably be happy with some as low as 14x on the upper end, adjustable objective is a must though. You won't need a 20mm rail for 600 yard shooting, and although the 175 SMK is a good bullet I would probably try the 155 Lapua Scenar and see if the gun likes it.

For inexpensive scopes the Mueller APV Tactical 4.5-14 AO with 30mm tube is about $150 at Midway USA, Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 is around $300, Burris FFII 4.5-14 AO with Ballistic plex reticle is around $300 (I have one on my .300 Winnie and it is a good scope)is also around $300, Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14 AO is about $350-360 and would be my pick of the bunch.

Going up to 16x you have the Millet TRS Tactical which gets good reviews but I have not tried one at $330, and the Bushnell 3200 and Burris FFII would also be in your price range.

At 20x the Weaver Grand Slam 6-20 AO with Varminter, Ballistic Plex or Target Dot (this is the one I use) is about $370 and I really like the glass in this scope for the money. The Leupold VXII's just make it in your range at $500, Bushnell 3200 7-21 AO Mil Dot also makes it under your limit, as does the Burris FFII 6.5-20 with a choice of reticles.

If I was going to buy another target scope today I would go with the Grand Slam 6-20, I love mine and the glass seems a bit better than the Leupies, Burris , Nikons and Bushnells I also have.

Dave P
July 13, 2010, 08:12 PM
Hold up there, Mr Rock - you gotta be pulling our leg!

Everybody knows you need a super scope to shoot mid- or long range --- and you don't have one on your rifle!?!?!?

jamesicus
July 13, 2010, 08:47 PM
Hi Hangingrock!

Here is real obsolescence - nostalgic photo from circa 1959 -- NRA High power rifle National Match Course - posed 200 yd standing to sitting position:

http://jp29.org/jp02.jpg

Winchester model 70 cal 30/06 heavy barrel Match rifle with Redfield Mark 8 International sights. I do believe I am using a Freeland cuff sling here (like the one you depict) -- I usually used the standard M1907 Military sling, but I was shooting some ISU three position at the time and got to really like the cuff sling (I used it on my hunting rifles too). Note the old 10x jacket, GI cartridge belt, campaign hat and bloused paratrooper boots -- kinda spiffy at that!

BTW, these rifles were used at 600 yds and 1000 yds with metallic sights (accurized M1 Garands also).

JP

taliv
July 13, 2010, 09:19 PM
One thing that hasn’t changed is long range starts after 600yds not at 600yds.

yeah? i really don't know, but i somehow thought that "mid-range" was a relatively recent invention

Hangingrock
July 13, 2010, 10:02 PM
yeah? i really don't know, but i somehow thought that "mid-range" was a relatively recent invention

You maybe right.;)

Hangingrock
July 13, 2010, 10:08 PM
Dave P:Everybody knows you need a super scope to shoot mid- or long range --- and you don't have one on your rifle!?!?!?

I just said I like to do it. Didn’t say I was good at it. I can be awful with or with out a scope.:what::)

Hangingrock
July 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
Jamesicus:Here is real obsolescence - nostalgic photo from circa 1959 -- NRA High power rifle National Match Course

In one of my pictures is (a box of 7.62MM Match XM 118 LOT LC 12010 1963 Match) some one recently gave me a can of it. 1963 brings back memories the following year I would be in the Marine Corps and the year after that Vietnam. So 1959 isnít all that old.;)

DougW
July 13, 2010, 10:30 PM
I put a Nikon Buckmaster 6X18 Mil Dot on my 700VTR in .308. Scope was around $300 from Brownell's, and it fits my needs out to 500 yards.

Maverick223
July 13, 2010, 10:54 PM
Welcome to THR, Niklaus!

1. rem700 used to be pretty good, but lesser of late. savage seems to have the reputation for sub-MOA out of the box factory rifles these days+1 on this. If you want a Remington 700 (nothing wrong with that), it would be in your best interest to look for an older, used rifle. If you want a new rifle, Savage is turning out a pretty decent rifle, at a comparable price, and has better workmanship/accuracy on average.

You may want to consider other chamberings as well, but without handloading your options are somewhat limited. If you decide to take up reloading, the .260Rem. is hard to beat for LR, and the 7mm-08Rem. isn't too far behind.

WRT optics, you want the best you can afford, without which you may be limited more than with a lesser rifle. First choice would be a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 (or preferably save up about $100.00 for the 4-16x50mm version). This has a matched reticle to adjustments (Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA), target turrets, side focus, good glass, good construction, has repeatable adjustments, and holds zero well. After that the Sightron S-II Big Sky 4-16x42mmAO with Target Knobs or the Nikon Monarch 6-24x50mm with Target Turrets/Side Focus, but both of these lack a few beneficial features IMO.

:)

Patrick R
July 13, 2010, 11:14 PM
2 months ago I bought a new Remington 700 SPS Varmint 26" .308.

Using a Bushnell 4200 6-24-50 scope. Paid $599.00 for scope.

Changed stock to Bell & Carlson target adjustable.

So far I'm vary happy with it. Mostly shooting 200 yard club matches so far.

Fit & finish seems good, Accurate without much load develpment & alot of fun to shoot.

Niklaus
July 14, 2010, 05:12 PM
yes im looking to spend 500-600 dollars on scope and rings

Prion
July 14, 2010, 05:18 PM
Bushnell Elite 4200 with Leupold PRW rings, lapped of course.

APIT50
July 14, 2010, 05:41 PM
I am using a Bushnell Elite 4200 with Burris Zee rings so no lapping for me.

wanderinwalker
July 14, 2010, 08:07 PM
Hold up there, Mr Rock - you gotta be pulling our leg!

Everybody knows you need a super scope to shoot mid- or long range --- and you don't have one on your rifle!?!?!?

It's worse than that. Somebody put the bolt on the wrong side! :eek: Must be pulling a prank on Mr. Rock...

As far as optics for the OP, I find it hard to believe he'd go wrong with a suitable entry from the Leupold or Nikon lineup. Like Hangingrock, I do my mid-range shooting with irons, so this is just a suggestion, not a recommended endorsement.

WRT holding 1-MOA accuracy out to 600 yards, the gun and ammo have to be up to it to tell if the scope is worthwhile or not. Six football fields make a target look quite a bit smaller than it does up close, I find.

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