Which is a better rifle?


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sprice
July 15, 2010, 09:00 PM
Between a browning bar and a Winchester model 70, for big game hunting, up to around 600 yards. With high quality glass and ideal conditions of course.

Longer the range the smaller the animal (antelope and coyotes).

Ok, what is the approximate moa capability on each of these guns?

I can't shoot that well yet but I want to work up to it; and I guess that makes 600 yards the range for hitting plates so if it can do that with 3 shots it'd be fine. This is all theoretical (probably spelled wrong) but it just sounded fun.

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ArtP
July 15, 2010, 09:03 PM
I think the question you're asking is which do you prefer, a semi-auto or a bolt action. I think it's hands down a bolt for presicion work at distance - but that's just me.

Othe than that, both companies make a fine product.

sprice
July 15, 2010, 09:13 PM
How does the bars accuracy hold up?

Float Pilot
July 15, 2010, 09:25 PM
1. Big game hunting past 300 yards is pushing your luck and boarders on being un-sportman like. The exception being mountain goats and Dall sheep. You can't get in an accurate follow-up shot for wounded game at that range.

2. The BARs are pretty accurate for a semi-auto. In fact the old Belgium made BARs were a thing of beauty.

3. A bolt action generally has an accuracy and reliability edge. The M-70s with controlled feed are very reliable and the safety locks the firing pin in place. But they are not generally the most accurate of bolt action rifles.

Abel
July 15, 2010, 09:32 PM
600 yards?

sprice
July 15, 2010, 09:44 PM
For coyotes? Yes.

DeepSouth
July 15, 2010, 09:54 PM
I think you'd have a very hard time hitting a yote at 600 yards (even 400) with a bar, but I haven't had a lot of experience with them.

I vote Model 70

Actually I'd vote Rem 700 but that wasn't an option.

PT1911
July 15, 2010, 09:57 PM
I vote for the bolt... I would always vote for the bolt in such a "dilemma."

praharin
July 15, 2010, 10:05 PM
600 yards for 'yotes? I'd be looking at a 6.5 or 6.8 AR15. You will get the accuracy out of it easier/cheaper than the BAR.


I'm not trying to be argumentative. Either of those would make fine rifles. But, coyotes are fairly small, and don't need too much punch to put them down.

blackops
July 16, 2010, 12:07 AM
Between a browning bar and a Winchester model 70, for big game hunting, up to around 600 yards. With high quality glass and ideal conditions of course.

Longer the range the smaller the animal (antelope and coyotes).

Ok, what is the approximate moa capability on each of these guns?

Irrelevant. 1 yd or 1 thousand. Win M70 everyday.

C-grunt
July 16, 2010, 03:46 AM
I dont have much experience with the BAR but bolt actions are known for accuracy.

LeverGunJunkie
July 16, 2010, 01:19 PM
I think you need to look at 2 different guns for 2 different purposes.

My buddy has a new MDL 70 in 300 WM and he shoots sub 1/2" 3 shot groups @ 100. 5 shot groups are sub MOA with 168gr reloads and a custom trigger. Based on that, I'd say go with the MDL 70 and I think you'd be happier.

Another friend has a BAR in 300 WM. Loves it, and it is a great deer rifle. Shoots right around MOA with his. Just not sure this meets your standard for a 600m Yote rifle :rolleyes:.

My real answer is a MDL 70 in 22-250 or 204 Ruger for Yotes, and a BAR in 308 or 30-06 for deer.

Dustin
July 16, 2010, 01:26 PM
I dont have a bar but my browning abolt 7mm remington mag shoots 3/4" groupings at 100 yards. if that helps you out at all.

Art Eatman
July 16, 2010, 01:28 PM
Not many folks--as a percentage of all shooters--have any business trying to hit critters out beyond 300 yards, IMO. By the time somebody has the skill to do that, he's already figured out what rifle he'd buy--or keep on using.

So, odds are, the choice is six of one, half-dozen of the other.

rcmodel
July 16, 2010, 02:44 PM
22-250 or 204 Ruger for YotesNeither of those calibers is a 600 yard coyote gun.

Bullet performance is out the window much past 500 with the 22-250, and probably less then that with the 204.

Most 22-250 rifles come with 1/14 rifling which makes light bullets your only option. And they just plain run out of velocity for explosive performance at 500+ yards.

rc

LeverGunJunkie
July 16, 2010, 03:24 PM
rcmodel:
Roger...I agree. Read my post that you quoted. I didn't say they would work as a 600 yrd yote gun, I just said they would be choice yote gun caliber.

375shooter
July 16, 2010, 04:47 PM
For extreme range, the M70 would be the way to go, IMO. A .25-06 Rem, .270 Win or .270 WSM should be a good choice for long range antelope and 600 yard coyotes (if you can hit them that far away).

rodensouth
July 16, 2010, 04:58 PM
I have owned a BAR, and they would not be my choice for a precision long range rifle.

Girodin
July 16, 2010, 07:10 PM
Not many folks--as a percentage of all shooters--have any business trying to hit critters out beyond 300 yards, IMO. By the time somebody has the skill to do that, he's already figured out what rifle he'd buy--or keep on using.


That pretty much hits the nail square on the head.

browningguy
July 16, 2010, 07:17 PM
I have BAR's in 30-06 and .270, they are both 1.25-1.5 MOA rifles most of the time, I would never consider shooting at anything ith them at 600 yards.

For long range varminting I shoot a Savage 12FV in .243.

XxWINxX94
July 16, 2010, 07:49 PM
Does it get any better than a Winchester?

mjyeagle
July 18, 2010, 04:34 PM
the model 70 is a bolt the bar is a semi bolt action has more precision

LeverGunJunkie
July 18, 2010, 07:44 PM
the model 70 is a bolt the bar is a semi bolt action has more precision

While true in this particular discussion, I think this "absolute" is an anachronistic statement. I think there are a few AR platforms, that with the right triggers & ammo, will out-shoot A LOT of premium bolt actions.

hometheaterman
July 19, 2010, 11:20 AM
For what you have in mind I'd chose the Winchester 70 out of those two. Actually, I wouldn't chose either, and I'd get a nice Savage. However, if it's down to those two only I'd choose the Winchester.

That being said, I own a BAR in 30-06 and I will tell you why I wouldn't chose it. The first reason is this gun is very very picky on ammo accuracy wise. All of this shooting was at 100 yards. I was trying to shoot Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silvertips in it and was getting about 6-8" groups. I couldn't figure out what was going on and why it would not hit the same spot. So I tried several other kinds of ammo. Remington Core Lokts in 165 grain (these shot huge groups too), Winchester Power Points in 150 grain (groups with these were smaller, but still pretty large), Winchester 150 grain Silvertips (Classic ones, shot a great group at 50 yards, but wouldn't group at 100 yards), Winchester Soft Points in 165 grain (grouped about like the 150 grain power points. Maybe 4-5" groups), Federal 150 grain Power Shok soft points (groups 3-4"), and finally Federal 150 grain Fusions (best I've found, 1.5-2" groups depending on the day).

As you can see I've tried a lot of different ammo and other than the Fusions I've not found any that grouped well. I can sometimes get groups about 1" with the Fusions, but more often than not they are closer to 2". The second best I've tried is the Federal Power Shoks which seem to group about 3" sometimes 4". The rest shot horrible.

I've done a lot of reading on this and while there are some reports of people saying theirs shoots sub moa, I see a lot more complaining of having issues like I am with 2-3" moa accuracy. Now this is fine for deer hunting at 100 yards, which is what I use it for. However, I'd think once you got out to 600 yards the groups would be horrible to the point where you probably couldn't even hit the coyote. That's just my guess though.

The only other issue I've had is the trigger is fairly heavy. I'd like it lighter, but from what I've read not many people work on them so I've never had someone try to fix this.

I really do like how the gun feels, the finish of it, it's reliability, and everything about the gun except for the accuracy. If you were shooting at 100 yards I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this rifle. Yet at 600 yards, I just don't think I'd want it.

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