Mosin Nagant can be fired with bolt not fully closed.


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Palehorseman
July 16, 2010, 03:40 AM
I lay no claim to being a MN expert, but was cleaning my MN tonight and noticed it could be fired with the bolt unclosed, like REALLY not fully closed, not a good thing. I seriously doubt this is the norm, so what could be the cause?

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charcoalburner
July 16, 2010, 03:39 PM
Your firing pin is probably protruding from the bolt face too far. If I remember right the tool kit for the MN came with a bolt wrench that has a set of notches for firing pin protrusion. Do a google search on "Mosin Nagant firing pin protrusion" or head over to surplusrifles.com and check out their forums. Hope this helps.

Shadow 7D
July 16, 2010, 04:43 PM
actually, you may want to check out that you assembled the bolt correctly I believe that it is cock on loading design, so you might, but the rest of it is that you use your trigger hand to operate the bolt, so on the other hand, it's not really feasible unless you do it on purpose.

bthest86
July 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
I've noticed on all my MNs that if the bolt handle isn't rotated all the way down and the trigger is pulled then the spring will still push it down the rest of the way. I don't know if this will fire a cartridge but it does seem to be normal thing for MNs and I don't think it will hurt the gun even if it did, though I wouldn't want to test it.

Palehorseman
July 16, 2010, 05:05 PM
Max on firing pin protrusion is .095"-min is .075" this one is set at .083" with witness marks aligned.

Bolt is assembled correctly.

Would be interested in other MN owners who would test theirs by raising bolt handle significantly and pulling the trigger on an empty chamber.

I was told on another site this is the inherent two stage cocking design of MN, partially cocks on opening, fully cocks on closing and that until the bolt is fully closed, the firing pin will not hit the primer. If this is the theory, I am going to run some empty primed cases to test bolt angle degree of closing as to when striker does fall enough to set the primer off.

Spoiled by my milsurp Mausers, on those the bolt must be fully closed for striker to fall.

bodiebill
July 16, 2010, 05:23 PM
Just tried this with a 1945 Ishvesk M38 carbine.
With bolt almost colsed, or just short of bing closed a pull on the trigger releases firing pin and closes the bolt.
Is this a problem to worry about?

167
July 16, 2010, 05:28 PM
Someone could load up a live round, figure out some way to pull the trigger without being right next to the gun and we could find out:)

rcmodel
July 16, 2010, 05:30 PM
Many bolt actions can be "snapped" without the bolt being fully closed.
That is not the same thing as being able to fire a round.

The act of the striker / cocking piece closing the bolt absorbs all the FP energy and the round should not get whacked hard enough to fire it out of battery.

Anyway, unless there is something very badly wrong, the firing pin should not be able to reach the primer until the bolt is already locked shut.

As far as I know, there are no documented problems with the MN firing out of battery.
If there were, I'm sure we would have heard of it by now after 120 years.

Heck, if there were, the Russians would have had a product safety recall 100 years ago!

rc

Palehorseman
July 16, 2010, 06:12 PM
Someone could load up a live round, figure out some way to pull the trigger without being right next to the gun and we could find out

True, but best to do it while they are still cheap.:D

Rshooter
July 16, 2010, 09:52 PM
Maybe Palehorseman is trying to drive the prices down. :neener:

Cosmoline
July 16, 2010, 10:03 PM
I'll double check, but I"m pretty sure the design prevents the pin from moving forward until the bolt has rotated into place.

Flea
July 16, 2010, 11:35 PM
Heck, if there were, the Russians would have had a product safety recall 100 years ago!

rc

Ok, now THAT'S just funny.:D

Hatterasguy
July 16, 2010, 11:49 PM
Meh they are safe enough. Close the bolt.

They were built before lawyers and such.:D

Palehorseman
July 17, 2010, 12:04 AM
Well, can only speak for this MN, but with the bolt slightly lifted and using primed empty case, can pop a cap, lift further, still pops a cap, with bolt just barely engaged on the cam to close, it pops a cap.

So for this one, I am not impressed with the safety theories, for would never have the bolt head lugs fully engaged in those positions, maybe less than half so for worst case scenario. This may be OK for some, but for this child I am less than impressed and in the future will always watch that bolt handle position with a jaundiced eye.

tju1973
July 17, 2010, 12:05 AM
Someone could load up a live round, figure out some way to pull the trigger without being right next to the gun and we could find out:)
Umm..you volunteering? :)

Palehorseman
July 17, 2010, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by rcmodel
Heck, if there were, the Russians would have had a product safety recall 100 years ago!

rc

Ok, now THAT'S just funny.


I don't think the Russians were ever particularly interested as to end user safety for their troops.

In WW-2, to clear a mind field for tanks, they would just march a couple hundred close ranks of conscripted fodder through it to mark a path.

caribou
July 17, 2010, 01:38 AM
Ive been an end user of the Mosin Nagant in its various guises for about 19 years now. I have never once read or heard of there being an issue with the bolt firing outta battery, ever.

So with my Faith in He who is Sergi Mosin, Bless his Soul, I can say I "Been there, done that, Yeeeeeeeeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwwwwww and my ears are ringing~~LOL!!~~!!!".
Why not, anyway, I blasted mag after mag from the front porch for 4th of July with the trusty SVT-40:D.

Using an M-44 and an M-39, both with proper firing pin protrusion, I watched the bolt close itsself as the sriker advanced, then I loaded each in turn with Czeck LPS.
Then I held them outside the window and pulled the trigger, same thing, Striker advanced, handle slapped down and the stik went BOOM. Scared some Ducks up from the Tundra ~~LOL!!~~
The M-39 did exactly the same thing, minus the Ducks.....to bad no Caribou in sight...:D.
We finnished off the rifles mags, with a couple more "handle ups" and the kids came in and shot off the rest of the box...

I think the striker camming the bolt down in order to reach the primer kinda makes it a "No Problemo" becuase it cant get to the primer and therefor Boom if it aint locked....... unless you have excessive Firing Pin protrusion........My bolt head/lugs look normal too, no new shiney spots or spalling/gouging anywhere on either on, so Im fairly sure they were locked up tight.

Excessive firing pin protrusion might rear its ugly head with a periced primer or two, but the big" Nasty" would be pulling that trigger with teh bolt handle lifted just 'enough' to blow that bolt over you hand(Ouch!!!) and into your face real sudden like(Ughhhhhhh!!).
I dount the bolt retaining stud is gonna stop it, speccially if the cartridge was chamber'd.


Now HOW could that happen?


Hmmmmmmmm......, which might just why the Mosin is the ONLY rifle I know of that actually has a firing pin protruion gauage Issed to each soldier that gets a Mosin (was Zitesev issued a tool with those bullets, or did he even get one in the Wishing Well in that movie?)......on top of having each firing pin fitted and struck to each striker.

So dont go messing with your firing pin protrusion, unless you have your issue protrusion gauge/screwdriver/bayonet removal wrench tool in easy reach~~LOL!!~~

I think the Russians issed a simple accurate soldier proof rifle, and having the bolt locked down solid is a good thin for sure, just like that fool proof safety, and wood handguards that keep hands from burning or freezing to the metal.
A well thought out design for the 1890's, 50 years before WWII.......and to think, the Finns only made them better.

Cosmoline
July 17, 2010, 03:40 AM
I think you've got it!

SHIPCHIEF
July 17, 2010, 04:11 AM
Iss Weapon. Iss Not Meant To Be Safe.
Iss meant to Kill Enemies of Motherland.

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