Good handgun for small, female college student..?

Does anyone have any recommendations for my first handgun? I don't really know anything about them. I'm looking for something small, powerful, and with a recoil I can handle. I also have an extremely low budget--around $400. :uhoh: I also want something I can carry around, but powerful enough to reasonably take down a very heavy man. I obviously won't be carrying it around my campus, but I have had problems with a stalker who's pretty unstable and pretty big.

Anyway, I hope I'm not being too broad/demanding, but if anyone has a general recommendation, that'd be awesome. :cool:

ruger lcr

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html

CZ guys, chine in here with your 9mm models (I don't know the model numbers offhand.)
Miss Paisan, you might be well served with a good .38 caliber revolver, and many will fall in under four bills. Avoid the "airweight" versions; they can be kinda snappy. Smith and Wesson 442/642 models come to mind, though they will not be new for that price. So do the older Charter Arms Undercover models (I have one from 1987 that has served me quite well as both a backup and off-duty gun when I was in LE), and the newest ones. Taurus makes a solid .38 known as the Model 85. The Ruger SP101 should also be a good prospect. These snubnose revolvers all hold five rounds each.
The aforementioned Ruger LCR is also a good choice but, around here, you'd be hard-pressed to find one under $400.
Once your choice is made, stop back by here and let us know how you did, and that you're getting some practice..!
By the way, if this is just going to be a "dorm" or apartment gun, and not carried, you might be well-served by a 20-gauge shotgun (get someone you know with a 12-gauge to let you try it out; if you are okay with it, go with the 12.)

The only thing I can tell you is that it is a very personal decision. You will just have to go to gun stores / gun shows and handle any you think you might like.

+1 for a Taurus 85, maybe with a 3 inch barrel... the steel version... " glaser" saftey slugs maybe, and practice shooting into the pelvic girdle... its a big target, produces massive shock and bleeding, and easier than a head or heart shot.

-some pepper spray for walking around(those kimber ones seem pretty cool)

-take a self defense course that has a heavy emphasis on situational awareness. some down and dirty "attack and get away" tactics...

-shotguns are nice for the house but... I recommnded one once to a co-worker(a clerk at a police department)... a patrol officer overheard and brought up the idea that if you dont have a good deal of shottie experience(pump guns) that in a hi-stress situation you could short-rack the shotgun, jamming it, etc... he recommended a revolver. or a glock 17.
so a shottie'd be fine, but really shoot it, join a trap league, etc..

First, If you don't already have one you should get your CCW license.

Second, I think that MedWheeler is right that a snubbie 38 Special would be a good choice. Preferably made of steel and not a lightweight alloy. While the lightweight versions are more comfortable to carry they also are more punishing for the user. There are some exceptions however; for example, the Ruger LCR has a Grip made by Hogue called the "Tamer" grip. It is appropriately named as it does a decent job of "taming" the recoil of the lightweight gun.

If you're on a budget, I would look into one of the following:

a used S&W J frame in steel - they can be found pretty cheap in local shops

a Ruger LCR - http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html

a Taurus model 85 - http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=CC2&toggle=tr

Charter arms undercover - http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Undercover_13820.html

Originally posted by searcher451
The relatively new Walther/Umarex PK380. It's light recoil and ease of use are good options for new shooters, IMO

The Walther PK380 is a good choice if you choose a pistol over a revolver. My GF says the the slide is the eaisest of all of my guns to operate.

Specs:
Model: PK380
Caliber: .380 ACP
Action: Single/Double Action
Barrel Length: 3.66"
Capacity: 8+1 Rounds
Overall Length: 6.5"
Height: 5.2"
Width: 1.2"
Sights: 3-Dot Steel, Drift Adjustable Rear Windage
Sight Radius: 5.4"
Weight (w/mag): 19.4 oz.
Material: Steel Frame/Slide/Barrel
Finish: Black

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=90943&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=60806&isFirearm=Y

CZ guys, chine in here with your 9mm models

While I don't recommend an auto, I think the model you mean is the 9mm CZ 2075 RAMI:

124311

Click to Enlarge

A revolver is a great first gun. They are very reliable and simple to use. Buy a Smith & Wesson or a Ruger revolver chambered for the .38 Special, which is plenty powerful enough. Get one with a 4" long barrel, avoid the snubbies or really small guns, which are harder to shoot accurately. Make sure to get training from the NRA on how to shoot it and what kind of ammunition to use. Study the statutes in your state about use of deadly force in your own residence. Pepper spray can be carried with you where allowed by your State law, make sure to practice with that so you know how it works. Don't carry the revolver illegally, you will go to jail. Get legal help with Stalker. Best of luck to you.

Edited to add: why suggest that a beginner get such a small gun like a snubbie? They are harder to shoot and recoil more. Get her started with something a little bigger and easier to handle, so she can learn to shoot accurately and doesn't develop a nasty flinch. The slightly larger revolvers are a lot easier to learn to shoot well, just my humble opinion.

It would be best to go to a gun range and rent/shoot as many differnt makes/calibers that you can.Then you will know what you like and shoot well.Many good small semi-autos out there in 9mm,and don't over-look a good 38spl. snub revolver.No matter what you end-up with,PRATICE,PRACTICE and PRACTICE some more.

Since the gun is not for traditional concealed carry, the budget is low, and the shooter is new to guns, how about a used S&W M64 in .38 Special delivered to her FFL for $265. The rest of her budget can go for ammo, ear/eye protection, range fees, and a class.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1238259

I am not associated with the seller, but I recognize a good deal.

Don't bet your life on a Taurus. Get a S&W or Ruger used or new and you'll have a good dependable gun for the rest of your life.

Agree with oldbanjo as above. If you go with a .38 snub, get training and practice!

Paisan Princess,

Here's my wife's opinion on your situation:

- Getting a restraining order on a stalker might be an appropriate action to take. Sometimes it works, sometimes it makes the situation worse. If you're afraid enough for your safety that you're considering getting armed, talk to the police. They tend to know a lot about this sort of thing; they've seen a lot of it before, and they can tell you what you can do.

- Take a general self-defense class, and if you still want to get a handgun after that, take a class on defensive handguning. Many self-defense instructors advise against carrying a weapon you're not trained with, otherwise it can get used against you. Handguns take a lot of training & practice to become a useful weapon, but they're easier (in my opinion) than alternatives like martial arts.

I'd recommend finding friends who are already focused on self-defense. It helps you to develop it in yourself, and they can teach you a lot.

As far as handguns are concerned, I'd look into a steel .38 special revolver. They're easy to shoot, easy to clean, and "good enough" for most defensive situations. Plus, their grips tend to be more ergonomic than an automatic's - an auto grip has to hold a magazine, while a revolver grip is just meant to grab.

When my wife picked a gun, she spent a lot of time in gun shops, mainly handling them to see if she liked the way they felt & how much they weighed. Steel revolvers tend to weigh 20+ ounces, which makes them comfortable to shoot but heavier to carry. Aluminum revolvers weigh ~15 ounces, which is nice for packing, but they kick harder.

If you want new, Charter Arm's Mag Pug can be found under $400. Used, you might find a Ruger SP101 or Smith & Wesson 640, 60, or 36 that works for you.

Here are two websites I'd recommend reading through if you'd like to learn more: http://www.io.com/~cortese/firearms/index.html
http://www.corneredcat.com/

Feel free to post questions, we're all glad to give our 2 cents. I hope things work out.

My wife is a small thing and started with a GP100 and loves it. Shoots .38's in it, almost no recoil and with small grips fits her hands perfectly.

Here's my opinion. You should try several different ones and see what feels right for you.
For a first gun and little experience, I'd check out a used (or new) S&W Ladysmith revolver.
It's small, easy to use, made for a woman, and in .38 should be cheap to shoot and have minimal recoil.
If you want really small, and under $400, go for the Ruger LCP in .380. It will have more recoil due to it's tiny size, but it will be easy to use and carry.
Good luck.
Come back any time.

Personally, I wouldn’t purchase any firearm, much less a semi-automatic pistol, sight unseen for a women, many of which would have difficulty retracting the slide. I have several CZ’s, and although fine pistols, I generally would not recommend any of them to a women simply because, when compared to other semi-automatic pistols, there’s not much slide area to grab onto the way they’re designed. Best thing to do is bring her to a local gun shop and let her handle and select what works for her.

I'd recommend a .38 Spl revolver too.

For a first handgun purchaser, there is nothing any safer.
Or effective without much training or experiance.

It's either loaded, or it is empty.
You can tell instantly by opening the cylinder and looking at it.

Unlike auto pistols, there is no manual of arms you have to practice and remember like:
(There is still a round in the chamber after you take the magazine out.)
(Did I load the chamber after I put the magazine in?)
(What do I do if it jams when I need it most?)

rc

Buy an inexpensive .22 handgun. .22 ammo is dirt cheap and has close to zero recoil. After shooting a few thousand rounds through your .22, you'll have the skills and the experience to choose a centerfire pistol for defense. .22 ammo is approximately 1/10th the price of .38, 9mm, etc. The money you save in ammo to train yourself will pay for the .22 handgun many times over.

To buy a defense handgun before you develop the skills is to put the cart before the horse. A .22 is the best trainer. There are no shortcuts.

Any gun that fits your hand comfortably will work. Don't really see the need for a revolver unless you absolutely can't rack a slide.

Hand gun ownership age limits vary by state, some 21 y/o others 18 y/o. Check what your state allows.

-Boxcab

One of the police trade-in S&W revolvers at J&G Sales would be a good nightstand gun. Not too much recoil, not too expensive, and very reliable. My second choice would be a Bulgarian Makarov. More concealable, about the same weight or slightly less, similar reliability and similar firepower. The biggest negative to the Mak is the greater complexity of a semi-auto for a casual user. Slightly more finicky to clean, and they DO need a good cleaning before first use because of the preservative.

Stolen from Kristen Bauer of RangeUSA (http://www.rangeusa.com), it is sound advice.

Gun Powder will be a recurring article in Libertas! It's an article written by a female, from a female's perspective, dealing with female topics, but intended for everyone's benefit! Enjoy!

Almost every day (and sometimes several times a day) a man comes to the range and explains that he is here to select a gun for his wife, girlfriend, mother, sister, or similar. This situation stills leaves us with the slim chance of convincing him otherwise. The saddest cases are those men that come in and while perusing the inventory of both new and consignment firearms explain the handgun he chose for the female in his life and why he chose it. My heart sinks as those words are spoken and I feel for the woman who is using a handgun that probably doesn't fit her hand, is probably not the highest caliber she can effectively control, and most importantly is not a handgun that she LOVES!

From time to time a customer will come in (both men and women) and ask the our customer service representative, "What is the best handgun for a woman?" If I am behind the counter and a male employee is asked his response will usually be, "Well, it depends." And then he will point to me and say; "She carries a full size 1911 in .45ACP." This basically demonstrates to the customer that handguns whether manufacturer, model, or caliber are not specific to either men or women. Rather there are many handguns that differ in size, shape, function, and caliber that appeal to different PEOPLE. Since they are not gender specific and there are so many options available, it is extremely important (and has actually become a pet-peeve of mine) that women (and actually ALL people in general) chose their own handgun.

Ladies, ask yourselves what does that man in your life buy you? Does he pick out and purchase your clothes for you? Your shoes? Your purses? Make-up? Other personal items? There may be a woman or two that is the exception to this, but I'd bet one of my Wilson Combat 1911s that most women select those items themselves even if the man provides the cash. There may be a few cases where the man has been properly trained in selecting certain items. For example, my husband has been properly trained in the area of purses for Kristen. He knows the smaller the better, he knows the colors I'll carry, and he knows Brighton purses are always a winner. Therefore, he can select and purchase them for me. Besides jewelry, I can't think of any other items he selects on my behalf.

So, that brings me to the whole point of my article this month. Ladies, you need to pick out your own handgun! Do not let a man go buy one for you and bring it home unless you have been included in the selection process. This goes for other ladies that you know. If your mother, sister, friend, or co-worker is in the market for a handgun, let her read this article or pass along the message that she needs to be involved in the choice.

Think about it this way.....a handgun whether carried with a permit or used at home for self-defense could one day be the only thing that stands between you creating more memories with your loved ones or not. It could be the very tool that saves your life. Doesn't it make sense then that the handgun, whether revolver or semi-automatic, have a grip fit that fits the lady's hand, that it be a caliber she can effectively control, have a manageable trigger pull for her, and be reliable, and my most important feature, shouldn't it be a gun she LOVES!? If all of these things are true for the lady, then she will want to bring it to the range to practice (try Date Night or Ladies Day). It will become not only a hobby for her, but also allow her to defend herself, other loved ones, and maybe even other innocent bystanders. I think people should have a relationship with their gun. By that I mean find a gun you LOVE. You will know it when you do (grip, sights, trigger pull, etc.) It may take a while to find it (and maybe many of you settled for a handgun that you just LIKE), but when you pick it up and shoot it you will know it is the one - the one you LOVE.

There are several ways to find that handgun you LOVE at Range USA. We have a wide selection of rental firearms, we offer a Handgun Evaluation class where you can try different handguns along with other students and an instructor, and we offer a Personal Handgun Consultation where one individual spends an hour with an instructor shooting different makes, models, and calibers. All of these options will help individuals narrow down if not chose the best handgun - and hopefully one they LOVE.

Lastly, I have to ask the men that are providing financial assistant to a lady in their life who is purchasing a gun not to buy a P.O.J. (piece of junk....or any other letter you chose to replace the J with). Remember with guns, you usually get what you pay for. The cheaper you go, the less likely it will perform correctly every time you shoot it. For a hobby gun you may not mind sacrificing reliability for cost, but don't sacrifice reliability when your life depends on it. Men should also keep in mind that most times they are the ones in the front line - whether it is a bump in the night they are investigating or a criminal on the street. If the man steps up to defend the lady in their life and they are injured, then who is left to protect them? Is it a lady with a P.O.J. gun, that doesn't fit her hand, she doesn't practice with, and therefore will not shoot accurately? Or is it a good, reliable handgun that fits her hand, which she practices with regularly at the range, and is that handgun that she LOVES? You know my vote is for the second option. So, ladies be involved in the selection of firearms (both handguns and shotguns) that you will use for any purpose! Men, bring those ladies to us and we will help her find the gun she LOVES. We will love you more for it and of course out shoot you with it!



For those of you that missed last month's Gun Powder article on ladies being better shooters then men see the Range USA February Newsletter.

Once you think you have found a gun you like or in the words of Kristen Bauer "LOVE", then do some research on that particular gun to see if it is generally reliable, etc. If you are not old enough to own/carry a handgun there are other force options available like OC, Tasers, etc. that are worth looking into.

Letting the police know what is going on is also a good idea, but do not rely on them for protection, just back up if you ever need it.

It is also critical that once you select your weapon of choice, firearm or otherwise, get some training on how to use it effectly in a defensive situation.

Edit: Agree 100% with the above post.



Good 1st timers...or any timers imo.

Revolvers: Selected for reliability and ease of operation.

Smith and Wesson
- Various sizes
- .38 cal

Ruger
- Same as above

Auto's
-Selected for their reliability as used in competition and for duty, and relative ease of operation.

Glock full and compact sizes
- Simple to operate
- Reliable
- Reasonably priced
- Wide range of caliber and size selection

Springfield XD series
- Same as above
- Different ergonomics

Smith and Wesson M&P series
- Same as above

My preference is to stick with brands that have proven track records in competition shooting and / or duty use with LEO agencies. While each gun is subject to potential issues as a result of the mass production process, firearms adopted by LE and military agencies at LEAST undergo performance and reliability tests that are indicative of their potential quality.

While ANY firearm MAY be successfully used for defense no matter how large or small, the most important factor for successfully using a firearm for defense imo is having the will to use it when you need to...

Without the will, there is no point in having it for defense.

While size DOES matter, it does NOT matter if you can't manage the recoil, or the gun is so big you won't carry it. Go with a firearm that you are comfortable enough with to carry, and that you can fire safely, accurately and quickly.

There are NO guarantees in "stopping" power however, as there have been folks who have shrugged off repeated hits with even the largest defensive rounds. HOWEVER, there are also attacks that have been STOPPED by even the SMALLEST defensive round. Hope for the best, expect the worse.

Good luck.

why suggest that a beginner get such a small gun like a snubbie? They are harder to shoot and recoil more. Get her started with something a little bigger and easier to handle, so she can learn to shoot accurately and doesn't develop a nasty flinch. The slightly larger revolvers are a lot easier to learn to shoot well, just my humble opinion

Because a snubbie in her purse is better than a 4" revolver in her dresser drawer (If she has her CCW)

I agree with what some others have said. I have personally fired several weapons including a light weight. Stick with a non-airweight snubbie. Women tend to keep a weapon in their pocketbook. or a hip holster. I carry a 22 Taurus, and 38 S&W snubbie.. Retired Law Enforcement Officer..

124334

I just don't think a snubbie revolver is a good gun for a beginner. It is going to be loud, kick extra hard, and be hard to shoot accurately. It will cause major flinch. I dunno, folks, it might be fine for somebody who is a retired LEO or a more experienced shooter, but I think it is a horrible choice for a beginner to learn on.

It may not be illegal or against university policy to carry a handgun concealed on campus. You'll need to investigate the laws. I recommend you go to an attorney rather than the police (who are notorious for not really knowing the law).

That said, if you have a stalker, you should be carrying or have the gun within reach at all times. You should also get a folding knife and learn the basics of its use.

A gun is not a magic talisman to stop bad guys. You MUST learn when you may shoot. Failure to do so may result in a long stay with an ugly lesbian in a cage for a few decades. I hear the food is terrible.

The key here is to get professional training. Start with NRA Basic Pistol or any beginner's course. Make sure to ask the instructors a variety of pistols for you to try. After that, find a two day defensive handgun course. Concealed carry "training" is not about the fight...it is about the state regulations and complying with their licensing scheme (which is important). Do not confuse the two types of training.

Guns:

Avoid revolvers unless you cannot operate the slide. They are more difficult to operate. By "operation", I mean rapid shooting, quick and efficient reloads, malfunction clearance, moving and shooting, close contact shooting, and so forth. Operation is not "opening the cylinder and pulling the trigger". Shooting at targets in a shooting lane is not preparation for a fight with a stalker.

However, if the revolver is your only affordable option, then get one. Go with a gun chambered in 357 Magnum if possible. You can shoot mild 38 Special rounds all the way up through powerful 357 Magnum hunting rounds. If you go with a snub nosed revolver, then 38 Special +P may be the way to go.

All that said, the semi-automatic offers a variety of improvements. The first is faster reloading. Second is shorter trigger pull and short trigger reset for faster shooting with more control. The latter advantage can be overcome with lots of revolver practice, but it will take some time and lots of rounds. The typical advice on caliber is 9x19mm or greater. Small semi-automatic pistols are available in 9x19mm. However, if you're just starting out, it may be better for you to have a gun that fills your hand. It will be easier to learn with.

www.impactguns.com
www.budsgunshop.com
www.jgsales.com
www.topgunsupply.com
www.cdnninvestments.com

Do some browsing.

Some solid brands:

Colt
Smith & Wesson
HK
Glock
Browning
Ruger
Kimber
CZ
SIG Sauer
Beretta
Springfield Armory

I don't like Kel Tec or Kahr. I've had problems with these brands. I also had trouble with Kimber, but they're considered to be good by many folks.

Also remember that your purchase will require more than just the gun. You'll need a holster for the belt. You should have some sort of method to carry the gun off your body. You'll need some practice ammunition and self-defense ammunition, spare magazines or speed loaders, cleaning kit, and hearing and eye protection.

If you buy a used gun, make sure the gun shop will refund your money if the gun turns out to be a problem.


Small gun recommendations:

Glock 26, 27 or 33
S&W M&P 9 Compact or 40 Compact

The good thing about these weapons is that they accept longer magazines for their bigger versions. You can get a sleeve to go around the bottom of the magazine to fill your hand. This will help you learn to shoot and you can put the short magazine in for concealability.

PASIAN-
As a long time shooter and newish husband take a look at these two websites to learn more:
http://www.io.com/~cortese/firearms/index.html

http://www.corneredcat.com/

The choice of a firearm is very personal and I agree with a lot of the things said here but they may not apply to you! The advice of going to a range with rentals is great advice. I reccomend that you take a firearms saftey class and they are required in some areas for a carry permit as well. I also recommend that you spend money and time at a range practicing with your firearm, this is something where your skills need to be at the top of your game if they are ever needed, some ranges have memberships that allow free rentals so you can try a gun(s) before you buy.
a shot gun for home defense is also high recommended.

This is an area where there is no clear answer and you will have to educate yourself and make an informed decision as there seems to be an equally valid reason against every good suggestion out there. Only you can make the final decision for your saftey. A restraining order is a good idea but they only work as long as the bad guy stays away! and if you move you have to notify the court so they can mail your "attacker" your new address so that he can be notified of where he can't go!

Also everyone has an opinion on everything and you would be remiss to base a decision that your life may depend on from "advice" recieved on a free fourm, I advise that you research the advice you recieve before continuing much further.

Good luck and welcome to the forum

If a woman is resorting to off-body carry, she doesn't need to keep a gun micro-sized, she can just as easily get a medium or even full-size handgun in a purse holster.

I tell everyone I'm training, of either gender, start with larger ones. If you later find you can handle smaller ones then you can move on. Smaller guns are NOT easier to shoot at all.

Good handgun for small, female college student..?
Does anyone have any recommendations for my first handgun?

The same first handgun as for a small, male college student.

Does anyone have any recommendations for my first handgun? I don't really know anything about them. I'm looking for something small, powerful, and with a recoil I can handle. I also have an extremely low budget--around $400. :uhoh: I also want something I can carry around, but powerful enough to reasonably take down a very heavy man. I obviously won't be carrying it around my campus, but I have had problems with a stalker who's pretty unstable and pretty big.

Anyway, I hope I'm not being too broad/demanding, but if anyone has a general recommendation, that'd be awesome. :cool:
PaisanPrincess,

$400 is a good budget! There are several good weapons in that price range.

On the low side I'd investigate:

1) Bersa .380s, especially the CC (concealed carry) version. .380 ammo is now more available than it was six months ago. $300 or so for the Bersa. I have one and it works fine and has a good DA and SA trigger. Yes .380 is kind of weak in power but for close range self defense only, it will do.

2) Taurus Snub 85. Their DAO only one is good, if a bit heavy. It may not last as long as a Smith & Wesson snub, but it to will do. $300+ they go for. I also have one of the DAO ones.

On the more expensive side:

3) Smith & Wesson 640 or 642 (airweight) in .38. Skip the magnum version is the kick badly with magnum loads. I just picked up an original 640 .38, all stainless steel for $400 plus tax. You can look around and find one for $400 if you look hard.

4) Ruger LCR (yes revolver). I don't recommend the RCP, TCP, P3AT, or any of those ultra small guns for primary carry. Just to hard to grab them fast. And yes I have a TCP I use as a backup.

5) SIG 232 .380. Sometimes I see them for $400. Stainless and blued versions made and It’s an excellent top-of-the-line.

And as a interesting one:

6) Makarov 9x18. Yes it's a surplus pistol but an excellent one. About the price of a Bersa but it ammo is less expensive, bit more powerful, and easy to find.


There are others but these are all good ones that I either own, or have owened.

Do go by a shooting range and if possible try before you buy.

Deaf

I'd agree with post #13. Get the restraining order and also get the gun, lots of good suggestions here about which model and caliber, I'd vote for a 357 or 38 revolver but that's just me.

You wouldn't happen to have a male friend or relative who is big, mean and ugly who might be able to have a little discussion with your stalker friend?

Just a thought, not a suggestion.

Look at used CZ82 in 9Mak. $250. Anyone can learn to shoot it. Blowback operation has some felt recoil, but anyone can master it. Not the smallest, but a good buy right now.

Take the classes suggested. Know your laws in this regard.

Be aware.

Stay safe.

Buy an inexpensive .22 handgun. .22 ammo is dirt cheap and has close to zero recoil. After shooting a few thousand rounds through your .22, you'll have the skills and the experience to choose a centerfire pistol for defense.
Totally disagree. The OP didn't ask how to get into recreational Bullseye shooting. She has a potential threat to her personal safety right now, and therefore does not have time to spend weeks or months training with a .22 at the range.

Princess, were this my wife, or a close female friend, I'd recommend the following steps:
1a) Talk to the police and get a restraining order
1b) Immediately take a self defense, handgun training, or concealed carry class
2) Go to a range that rents a variety of .38 special revolvers and try some out
3) Purchase a used revolver from a high quality brand like Ruger or Smith and Wesson

This will get you at least minimally equipped quickly and with the safety training you need to keep from becoming a hazard to yourself or those around you.

I hope this all works out well, without violence or further trauma to you. Congratulations on being willing to take the responsibility of self-defense seriously. Many people get caught in the loop of denial, and it appears you're being very proactive in preparing yourself for what could happen.

My daughter
My money
My S&W Model 10
Go to the University of Missouri

Go to a range with a large rental counter.

Find what fits you (see corneredcat.com)

Find a good deal on something within that "family" (1911 family, CZ family, Glock family,...) and join the school gun club (absent one at the school ask a the range) and start practicing.

My Mother thought her 3" J frame was just a biscuit on wheels. Great trigger, good sight radius, small enough to take anywhere, heavy enought to not be punishing. Sweet little gun, think I'll take it shooting in the morning...

First, follow the law in your state.
Next, try to test out at least a couple you are interested in to determine the best size/caliber for you. Small guns = big recoil and they're snappy. My wife won't touch them anymore.
Definitely do something about the stalker, but shooting him probably isn't the best option. Unless of course he is coming right for you.. (can't resist a South Park plug).
http://www.hoffgun.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=H&Category_Code=FEAT near the bottom of that are some inexpensive models.

I'd forgotten she wasn't planning to carry when I suggested a snub. If it's gonna be house gun, yes, a 4-incher would be better.
Ignore the "Don't bet your life on a Taurus" posters; they say that a lot, but never back it up with anything solid. While the Internet can bring out a lot of helpful people, it also brings out people who base their knowledge (and all too frequently, their own life decisions) on what they've read on it.

I'm looking for something small, powerful, and with a recoil I can handle.
Sometimes those are mutually exclusive. I would not recommend, for example, a .357 Magnum "fleaweight" revolver, or a subcompact .40. A good compromise is a 9mm compact or subcompact pistol. In your price range are the Kahr CW9 or a used Glock 19 or 26. A used S&W 3913 might come in around this figure. (Also note that this does not include sales tax or other fees.)

S&W 38 Special revolver. There are several models to choose from.
Small to medium frames. It don't get no better.;)

My wife carries a S&W 442, it is light to carry about 15oz, RELIABLE, functions perfectly, small and can be purchased brand new in th $400. price range. For valintines day I got her a set of Ivory Grips.

Might I suggest a boyfriend who is a gun owner of good standing? He could offer you a chance to learn and try his handguns. It's, also, one way to find out your boyfriends temperment [it takes patience to teach firearms].....

I would be looking at a Taurus 24/7 or Glock 19 / 26. Grip adapters are available for the Glock 26.

PLEASE ALSO remember to get a restraining order / talk to the police about this fella. Pepper spray is also something handy to carry. They make pepper spray rings. Seriously, it looks like a ring, but will spray pepper spray, a 2 second burst I believe. Talk to campus police, but also the city / county LEO's. If you are thinking about carrying a gun, then chances are his behavior is threatening enough to try to get some kinds of legal action. Obviously, this will not stop anything at all, BUT if the worst happens, it will be one more thing on your side of the ledger and hopefully keep you out of the clink.

http://www.defensedevices.com/stunningring.html

2.5 to 4-inch revolver in .38 Special or .357 Magnum. For my money a 3-inch Smith & Wesson Model 13 or 65 with a bobbed hammer.

Glock 19 / Smith & Wesson M&P Compact 9mm / Kahr CW9

For a little more money the Walther PPS 9mm is an excellent firearm.

Some other comments:

Pick the gun that feels right to you.

Buy quality self defense ammunition to carry in your gun.

Spend some money on practice ammunition and familiarize yourself with the firearm. It would be an excellent idea to invest in some self defense training as well.

Invest in a good holster or other carry option (dedicated holster purses).

You need to make a personal decision that you are ready to shoot someone before you deploy a gun for self defense. Only carry a gun once you feel like you are mentally prepared to use it to defend yourself.

Totally disagree. The OP didn't ask how to get into recreational Bullseye shooting. She has a potential threat to her personal safety right now, and therefore does not have time to spend weeks or months training with a .22 at the range.

Yup, my bad! Should have read the OP more closely...

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/smith-wesson/revolver/p/smith-wesson-model-64-38spl-stainless-steel%2C-bobbed-hammer-very-good-condition/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/2441

A good clean used Smith .38 revolver will serve you well for the rest of your life. Honestly, if you bought more gun than a good Police trade in Smith and Wesson, I think you would be wasting money at this point. I don't know if you ever want to actually be a "shooter" and take this up as a hobby and try to gain real proficiency or not. But, I have been carrying a gun, in and out of uniform for over 30 years, and, I would never feel unarmed with a good revolver, as a matter of fact, one of my most carried off duty guns is a stainless K frame model 65 (the .357 Magnum version of the gun that is listed above, only because I feel comfortable with the power of a .357 Magnum, I would be just as happy with the .38 Special)

What part of the country are you in?

My .02

My wife likes to go shooting at the range with me. She has small hands and not very good hand strength so we stuck to revolvers. We tried out a few small revolvers to figure out what she liked, and then I started shopping around for a similar gun.

I found a used .38 Smith and Wesson model 36 with a three inch barrel AND its nickel plated, so it looks pretty.;)

It is in 99 percent condition (I doubt it had 50 rounds through it), we paid 350 for it.
It really has been the perfect gun for her.

Do you know of any ranges close to where you live/go to school? Also be careful about carrying on campus, I live in Georgia and go to UGA, and CCW on campus is a major no-no.

As for the gun I would suggest either a new or used S&W or Ruger revolver in .38 special, or a used Glock, or M&P in 9mm.

Good Luck!

Revolvers are easier to learn starting out, and you can use snap caps to learn trigger control at home and eliminate flinching while actually shooting.

S&W makes very high quality revolvers, so does Ruger. Taurus, Rossi, etc. are far behind in quality.

Training is a lot more important than what handgun you buy. Learn to fight, with your gun or without it, or you will never be truly safe. Being safe is much more important than feeling safe. Lots of people with guns feel safe, but aren't because they refuse to put in the work. A gun is dangerous in one direction, a few times, before it becomes a paperweight. It takes a lot of work to learn to make the shots count.

Go buy the book Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker

A gun isn't a majic talisman aginst violence
You have to be willing to kill someone to defend yourself, until you have made that decision, the gun is useless

Then you need training to learn to use the gun, until you know how and WHEN to use a gun, it is worse than useless

Finally, you will have to disarm to go to class, if the stalker is any type of decent stalker he would know this (and why would he know you have a gun?)

So go get training, save the money, get friends and don't' go anywhere by yourself, avoid shady situations, anywhere with alcohol, and most importantly, your stalker (that means you don't' talk to to him and a basically don't acknowledge his existence, he isn't stupid and gets something out of his behavior (and yours)

So, really think about why you want a gun, and if you could/would even use it
maybe pepper spray or a taser is more inline with what you want

Once you have made up your mind about getting a gun, please, train and practice, it's not a magic talismans against harm, and in many cases false confidence will lead you to more harm than meekness and fear, which keeps you safe.

Thanks a lot, everybody. I'm going to different gun stores today to get a feel for different guns to decide which one. I did do a quick look up on the guns you guys listed and jotted down the ones that I liked best to ask about at the stores. Once I buy and maybe go down to a shooting range, I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks again!

Totally disagree. The OP didn't ask how to get into recreational Bullseye shooting. She has a potential threat to her personal safety right now, and therefore does not have time to spend weeks or months training with a .22 at the range.

Princess, were this my wife, or a close female friend, I'd recommend the following steps:
1a) Talk to the police and get a restraining order
1b) Immediately take a self defense, handgun training, or concealed carry class
2) Go to a range that rents a variety of .38 special revolvers and try some out
3) Purchase a used revolver from a high quality brand like Ruger or Smith and Wesson

This will get you at least minimally equipped quickly and with the safety training you need to keep from becoming a hazard to yourself or those around you.

I hope this all works out well, without violence or further trauma to you. Congratulations on being willing to take the responsibility of self-defense seriously. Many people get caught in the loop of denial, and it appears you're being very proactive in preparing yourself for what could happen.

Thank you. Actually, a restraining order was the first thing I did. This guy was a weirdo with no chance who was a little more than twice my age and married to a relative. He took a very bizarre interest in me. I got a restraining order before God-knows-what, which is a good thing because even his family said he's unstable. I don't really know the threat level, but I'm not taking any chances.

Good luck in your choices and good luck with your predicament. As for the guy who said get a boyfriend with guns, I AM the boyfriend and the g/f doesn't want one because she says I'll always be there to protect her...:confused: I see her on the weekends. Miss Paisan, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get proficient with whatever you choose, and even if your b/f husband is a gun-owner, PLEASE don't think we will be there every second!!! Heck, he may even be the problem :(. You're already in the right mindset, now just remember to obey your local laws. Now, how to brainwash the g/f into practicing more...

I didn't read through all the posts but one thing to consider before you buy a double-action (DA) revolver is whether or not you can pull the trigger. I know it sounds funny, but my wife is a bit of a "delicate flower" and really has a hard time pulling the trigger on most DA revolvers. She can pull the trigger on my Kahr CW40, however, which is a semi-automatic pistol with a DA-type trigger.

A couple recommendations on gun shopping (and life in general):

1. Take a guy with you who knows guns (ideally) or someone you know well who will stand up to the clerks at the counter at gun stores.

2. Make sure you can dry fire the weapons that you handle. I usually don't ask but I am very familiar with the workings of most common weapons and don't really rely much on the clerks.

3. Follow your window shopping with range time. Find a range that rents the guns you liked best during your window shopping.

4. Carry pepper spray. Buy a convenient canister of the strongest stuff you can find. Buy a couple spare canisters and practice with them. Be sure you can hit something the size of a person's head from about 10 feet away.

5. A pepper spray canister that attaches to your key ring is handy. Carry your keys by the canister with your finger ready on the spray button. (It's not like a gun where you need to keep your finger off the trigger until your target is acquired.)

6. Take a self-defense class for women. Then, take a self-defense class for men.

Just some food for thought. As a new shooter I would first recommend a revolver. If it doesn't go boom just pull the trigger again.

After you have some trigger time and money comes then get a semi-auto.

As recommended before I would try to get a .22 pistol ASAP and learn to shoot with it. It's not a bullseye thing it's a hit your target (threat) thing.

A man with a knife can cover a distance of 21 feet and have slashed fatal wounds before the average person can draw and fire on them. So if you flinch and can't hit at 21 feet which I have seen done on more than one occasion. Dry fire will help some but memory takes over at the first bang and the flinch starts over.

Practice with a .22 as stated above it's cheaper and less likely to invoke you to flinch, but also put a few down the range of your carry gun as well. Go shoot 100-200 rounds of .22 and then shoot 10-20 rounds of your carry gun. As time goes on and you become more proficient with your carry gun then start shooting it more. but always keep the .22 there a blast and was it mentioned that they are cheap to shoot.

My wife started out with a 380 then moved to a SP101 .357 and now shoots a Glock 22 which is a 40 S&W. she has put up wards of 2000 rounds a month thru her glock and is probably not a person that I would want to get into a fire fight with.

Go to you local range and watch some of the shooters talk to them. At least the ones that are hitting the targets most people would be more than happy to help. You don't have to go into detail as to why just that you would like to learn to shoot. ask the owner if he would recommend a person to help you out.

I bought my wife a Charter Arms .38 Special- Undercover series, Pink Lady model. It's a nice revolver, and fairly accurate within 10-15 yards with practice. I only paid $335 at a Gun show and they're fairly light. Like everyone else in here, a .38 SPC (Special) would be a good match. But finding a auto-loader for under $400 is tricky, best bet is used. but a new revolver can be found at that price.-good luck

I'm looking for something small, powerful, and with a recoil I can handle.
Given your criteria, I would suggest going one of two routes. A snubby revolver in 38 Spl would be very convenient to carry and adequately powerful. However, recoil will be stout even if you avoid the flea weight models. Note that "stout" doesn't mean unmanagable. It just means the web of your hand may get sore/abraded after firing a few cylinders when practising at the range.

The other option I would suggest would be a 9mm autoloader. A big advantage of 9mm is that it uses the cheapest ammo of the serious calibers. If you practice much (and you should), then you will save a lot of money in the long run with 9mm. And other things being equal, the recoil of an autoloader will be less because some of the energy is going into cycling the action rather than straight into your hand.

Of course, you may prefer a revolver because it is simpler to operate and you may perceive it to be more reliable. I chose a snubby revolver for my first gun and it is still the gun I most often carry. I put up with its recoil, actually I even quite enjoy it -- seems a more "manly" :) weapon than my 9mm or 45 ACP pistols, which although more powerful have little perceived recoil in comparison to the snubby.

PS Your choice will involve a trade-off as your three criteria are somewhat incompatible. Also, I suggest to at least hold a few guns at the gunshop counter before making a decision as the feel of it in your hand is important. Other people may enthuse about some particular model but for you the ergonomics may not be right.

Get a 10mm

j/k

Maybe you should get help from someone first... Spending that money on a gun you can't keep with you in the environment that the stalker will most likely be in is a waste. Call the police if it's really a problem.

Whatever you do, make sure that it's you -- not some well-meaning friend or internet chat buddy -- who makes the final call on what get for a defensive firearm. Boil it down to a handful of pistols you might be interested in, then go to a range that rents guns and try each and every one on your list until you find exactly the right fit for your hand and eye. One to try out for sure: The relatively new Walther/Umarex PK380. It's light recoil and ease of use are good options for new shooters, IMO

Whatever you do, make sure that it's you -- not some well-meaning friend or internet chat buddy -- who makes the final call on what get for a defensive firearm. Boil it down to a handful of pistols you might be interested in, then go to a range that rents guns and try each and every one on your list until you find exactly the right fit for your hand and eye. One to try out for sure: The relatively new Walther/Umarex PK380. It's light recoil and ease of use are good options for new shooters, IMO
Agreed. I only suggested a male friend assist in her shopping because of the discrimination I have witnessed when females shop alone.

Yes ... that's a valid point in some shops, at least, Mud.

I certainly hope that the OP remains safe; it just goes to show you the fine line we all walk.

Originally posted by searcher451
The relatively new Walther/Umarex PK380. It's light recoil and ease of use are good options for new shooters, IMO

The Walther PK380 is a good choice if you choose a pistol over a revolver. My GF says the the slide is the eaisest of all of my guns to operate.

Specs:
Model: PK380
Caliber: .380 ACP
Action: Single/Double Action
Barrel Length: 3.66"
Capacity: 8+1 Rounds
Overall Length: 6.5"
Height: 5.2"
Width: 1.2"
Sights: 3-Dot Steel, Drift Adjustable Rear Windage
Sight Radius: 5.4"
Weight (w/mag): 19.4 oz.
Material: Steel Frame/Slide/Barrel
Finish: Black


124518
Click to Enlarge

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=90943&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=60806&isFirearm=Y

I skimmed over the replies so I'm not sure if this obvious choice has been mentioned. Years ago my future wife was being stalked and at that time Smith and Wesson was offering the "Lady Smith" a small revolver in .38 spc. it was a "no brainer". Made for small hands it was the perfect solution. I see they are still being offered but now they are "hammerless". I would highly recommend this or something similar as a solution to the young lady's needs.

On the auto side, perhaps a Ruger SR9C in 9mm might be an alternative, 10 to 17 rounds can be reassuring.

Everyone has their opinions. Consider all routes. I hope he's not the most diligent stalker in the world, but just seeing you going into a couple of gun shops might be enough to put a fright in his sick mind. You definitely did the right thing in getting the restraining order.

I'd say a heavy snubnose in .38 or .357 (you can shoot .38 special in a .357 magnum (doesn't work the other way!) so you could shoot .38 and maybe after enough practice you could get comfortable with the increased recoil of the .357.

If you do get a .38, try to find one that can handle +P loads (+P loads are loaded to higher pressures than the standard). A +P .38 special won't be nearly as powerful as a .357 magnum, but it's a damn sight better than a .380. But then again, a .380 is a damn sight better than nothing.

If you're in a concealed carry friendly state, get the ball rolling on getting your permit. Get some seriously powerful mace for when you're on campus. Then get training. Not just with the gun, but physical altercation too.

Good luck with this whole thing. I hope he gets the hint long before you even have to think about considering deadly force. Your situation really eats at me. My wife and I are your age (if you're in your early 20s) and just the thought of someone following her around is enough to get my hands ready for steel to clear leather.

Stay safe.

My best advice is to take a NRA Basic Pistol class and try several.

LCP or LCR

When you go the gun shop first figure out if you want a revolver or a semi-automatic. Once you decide that then you can think about frame size or barrel length. Choose what feels good in your hands and points naturally. Depending on how you plan on carrying your gun (ie. purse, on your person, etc.) you may want to consider the size of the gun. You will not want to purchase a full size Glock or 1911 if you plan on carrying it on your hip. It will be very difficult to conceal and will get heavy after long periods of time. I would not recommend purchasing the first time you walk into the gun shop. Go there to get information and research when you get home. You want to make an informed decision because $400 is a large purchase and an investment. The gun store sales person may have a bias toward one gun or another. If he tries to push you into one particular model, consider what he is saying but the decision must be yours, not his. Remember, everything with a handgun is a compromise. You need to weigh out the costs versus the benefits such as, the smaller the gun the more difficult it will be to shoot accurately, but it is more easily concealed. Let us know if you have any more questions.

I can't believe no one has recommended Kathy's Cornered Cat page yet.

Go to www.corneredcat.com and read though the site. There is a ton of great info there.

My other best suggestion is to find a NRA instructor or a range that offers training and get at least some basic training with a handgun. If not the full NRA Basic Pistol class, at least some one-on-one time with an instructor. This will give you a better understanding of the basics and also allow you to try at least a few different handguns.

Btw, if you are in Michigan, please PM me and I'll give you some one-on-one instruction if we are close enough to meet.

I did, but that was on the other gun for a lady thread

Listen, guns are tools,
training keeps you safe, go get the training, and realize, that at the least a poor fitting or disliked gun is about as expensive as a designer bag, or shoes,

so please take at least as much time shopping for a gun as you would for any other expensive purchase, take the boy friend or dad out with you (it would be what they consider quality bonding time, and they will brag at work the next day) IF they are into this sort of stuff.

I would go for a compact metal or even poly, just not a super light weight,
If you do go small, pick a gun know for reliability, like a KT P32, many .32 are about the same weight as a .380, but don't pack the same recoil, and have one more round. But for a first defensive gun, I would look for a small 9mm, not the easiest to conceal, but you have a standard round (inexpensive) and most have a softer recoil than many .380

It comes down to what fits you and you are comfortable with.

Either a Ruger LCR or a S&W 637 Airweight. Both are good pistols, both are chambered in .38 Special, both are small and light weight, both hold 5 rounds, both have small grips. The main visible difference is the Ruger LCR has an internal hammer where the S&W 637 Airweight has an external hammer.

Both revolvers are around $450, give or take. Hope this helps. Good luck. :)

+1 on the Walther PK380. Nine rounds, very low recoil, retail price $393.00 and can be found at discount almost anywhere. My wife loves mine and she is small (5' 4", small frame and hands).

Also consider the 9mm Stoegar Cougar. It's the well-regarded Beretta Cougar manufactured in Turkey. Lots of good reviews. Seen locally for about $429.00. 9mm ammunition is plentiful.

Ruger SP101 with 3-inch barrel is another good choice. Stainless steel gives decent weight. Can chamber .38 Special, .38 Special +P and .357 Magnum. Retails at $607.00 advertised at Bud's for $449.00.

Smith & Wesson Model 60 with 2.5-inch barrel, same advantages as the Ruger with a better (IMHO) trigger pull. Lifetime warranty. Retails for $882.00 advertised at Bud's for $556.00 seen in local shop for $649.00.

Smith & Wesson Model 637 Airweight: Kicks like a mule with full-house +P loads but is more manageable with standard .38 Special. Retails for $616.00 advertised at Bud's for $418.00. I paid $449.00 for mine in a local guns shop last year. If you want a hammerless, get the 642 (same price). This wouldn't be my recommendation, just like the Ruger LCR/LCP, it's too light for the cartridge. My wife, who is used to shooting handguns, fired about ten rounds through mine and her hand hurt for days. This isn't the sort of thing that will encourage you to go out and practice. And practice is crucial for any gun.

Smith & Wesson Model 64 (like the Model 10 but in stainless steel): One of the best home-defense handguns in the world. Six-shots, low recoil, Retails for $782.00 advertised at Bud's for $560.00. The Model 10 is about the same price, but is blued which has a tendency to rust.

Beretta PX4 Storm: Very nice 9mm pistol with 17+1 round capacity in 9mm. Adjustable grip size, very low recoil, good trigger. Retails at $550 advertised at Buds for about $465.00.

Yes, a number of these are over your budget. If you can't find a used one in very good condition, buy some pepper spray and keep saving. A quality handgun is a lifetime investment that will pay big dividends when the time comes that you need it. Remeber, you're staking the most important and irreplaceable thing you have, your life, on this purchase.

One more advantage to a revolver. When it's loaded and ready, there are no springs under tension. You can leave it that way for years and it will still be ready when you need it.

My wife's choice for her personal handgun? A Browning BDA .380, 13+1 rounds, shoots very nicely and is comfortable in the hand. Retail price is about $800.00 but she paid it.

Check out the various recommendations, fire them if possible. You'll find one that is right for you.

Revolver: .38 with 2" barrel
Autoloader: Bersa .380

LCP or LCR

I wouldn't recommend an LCP as anyone's first gun because of its relatively stout recoil (since it's so light) and its rudimentary (at best) sights. I could easily see a first-time shooter becoming very frustrated and picking up bad habits (e.g., flinching) when trying to learn the basics with such a gun.

I'll echo many of the other posters: always focus on safety, get professional training, practice a lot. Try different guns before buying. If you've never fired a gun, you'll have no idea what different grip sizes/angles, recoils, trigger pulls, etc. feel like and therefore have no real basis for making an informed decision about what you'll be most comfortable with.

You really need to shoot some, but to put some more exact #s to it: I'd say you want the weight for a .38 spl to be at least 21 oz. 9mm auto, same.

I loved shooting my full size .44 magnum revolver with heavy loads...the one time I shot an airweight .38, I hated it, it cut my thumb. That one weighed about 13 oz.

My wife is also interested in getting a revolver, when she is serious enough to buy it will be something along the lines of 2-3" barrel, 38 SPL +P rated and 21 oz + weight.

FNP-45.

If you're gonna go, go big. :P

Or get a Ruger LCR. .38SPL is a tried and true manstopper.

Buy a police trade-in glock19 and sand off the finger grooves = cheap, very reliable and very shootable.

SCREW grip comfort and all that jazz, besides the desert eagle most pistols are workable in the grip area. First and foremost, it has to be reliable and good quality. Is your life worth just $400? Take out a small loan and get something better! :D

Also think about taking a class with it. Most people (at the ranges I go to anyway, but for years now) cannot shoot that well, and poor shooting with a handgun is not a good way to defend yourself. Holding a controled explosion in your hands to launch projectiles is NOT natural. It must be practiced!

I do not recommend revolvers. Because my sister is also a small female college student.

She can barely pull the trigger on my ruger sp101 in DA, certainly not with ANY kind of accuracy. This is a girl that can deadlift at least 150% her weight!

Semi autos are far easier to shoot under stress.

Learn situational awareness also. Your head needs to be on a swivel and scan your surroundings everywhere that you go. Not like a paranoid tweeker, but almost like an alert guard dog. Scan especially where there are few or no people within view. No use having a weapon if you are surprised and cannot deploy it.

Being aware of the threat early can save you from even drawing your weapon, by out manuvering.

I recommend glocks and M&Ps in 9mm. My sister likes the M&P's better because of their lack of finger grooves and the small interchangable backstrap.

Good luck!

Edit: Does your school allow pepper spray or tasers on campus?

She can barely pull the trigger on my ruger sp101 in DA, certainly not with ANY kind of accuracy. This is a girl that can deadlift at least 150% her weight!


That said, you can build up hand strength just like any other muscle group, and I for one would be much more comfortable, from the standpoint of helping to prevent negligent discharges, carrying a gun with a long, heavy DA trigger than, say, a Glock (as much as I love them).

This isn't a new thread so I skipped some. Forgive me if I happen repeat what has been already said; but here goes - - - - -

I read back there that the best criteria is something SHE LOVES. I couldn't agree more! If it hurts; she won't shoot it. If it's too big and loud AND hurts; she won't shoot it. And you have to practice, practice, practice with the weapon you intend to use when you're scared, shaking and the Adrenalin is up. That's true for everybody.

The Human body doesn't do well with holes punched into and through vital organs - - - particularly the brain - - - and the eyes, through the Trachea or through the Carotid Arteries. It doesn't matter what caliber it is. It can be an ice pick.

My wife loves .22s. She used to shoot dump rats with a High Standard. I got her a little revolver and put a Crimson Trace grip on it. She loads it with Federal 36 gr hp rounds (they punch about 41/2 inches into wet pack, and, yes, they DO open up; no matter what 'they' say) She can punch out head and neck shots all day long; with her red dot OR her iron sight at 7 yards.

Take it as you will; but she loves her "little gun"; shoots it a lot and is steady as a rock. She has never panicked in a crisis and she's dead accurate. Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too.:D

Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too

I think all women do! Thoughts of old boy friends, Ha.

That said, you can build up hand strength just like any other muscle group, and I for one would be much more comfortable, from the standpoint of helping to prevent negligent discharges, carrying a gun with a long, heavy DA trigger than, say, a Glock (as much as I love them).
Can't build hand strength quick enough for self defense NOW. I doubt the OP will start an intense grip exercise program. How many months will that take?

Even then, the DA revolver is still harder to manage under stress. Not to mention only 5-6 shots, and the recoil is MORE in any decent defense loading.

The glock without any manual safety requires a more switched on user, that is true. But training makes that a non-issue.

Or get an M&P with a thumb safety.

Unless you more worried about your own crappy gun handling causing a ND and would feel safer from yourself by picking a much inferior weapon. Depends on how bad one's gun handling is, ANY gun could be a bad idea.

Edit: I personally would not advocate carrying a .22 rimfire. Even the latest and greatest loadings in 9mm - .45 ACP etc... still does not guarantee quick stops. Shot placement is almost everything (then penetration). And with a .22, even more so! You pretty much have to put it in the eye sockets or heart.

Asking a beginner to do this while stressed is a pretty tall order.

In this order
A restraining order, maybe even 5 minutes with a lawyer for an opinion.
A S&W Model 10 snubbie can be had for $300, you can't go wrong.
Pepper spray.
Range time with the Pistol and the Pepper Spray.
A Licence to carry.
More Range Time.
I know we should all have the pistol that "FITS" us; however there is something to be said for training a novice with a reliable platform and having them learn before they have an opinion. It has worked for decades in Police academy's and for the Military.
Once She has some experiance then show her various handguns that may fit her a bit better.

You don't have to put a .22 round in an 'eye socket' to effect a kill. We used to kill hogs with a .22 shorts in the forehead all the time.

Big bullets, big guns - - - - - little guns; it doesn't matter; they're all lethal in the right hands. None of them are, in the wrong hands. What it comes down to is committment: if he has a knife and is committed, and you have a .44 mag. and you're not - - - - you're dead.

You don't have to put a .22 round in an 'eye socket' to effect a kill. We used to kill hogs with a .22 shorts in the forehead all the time.

Big bullets, big guns - - - - - little guns; it doesn't matter; they're all lethal in the right hands. None of them are, in the wrong hands. What it comes down to is committment: if he has a knife and is committed, and you have a .44 mag. and you're not - - - - you're dead.
Then most people would carry 22's into harms way all the time. But they don't.

Nobody commited to staying alive would carry a .22rf.

Kinda like using a bicycle to travel the busy highways, I suppose I can be done but don't fool youself about it being good enough... Lol

There's been some good advice in this thread, and there's been some that is questionable. But the following remarks are worth special attention:

Is your life worth just $400? Take out a small loan and get something better!

I do not recommend revolvers. Because my sister is also a small female college student.

Semi autos are far easier to shoot under stress.

I recommend glocks and M&Ps in 9mm.

To PaisanPrincess: You can purchase an excellent, reliable and powerful handgun for under $400. You'll need to shop around, and do visit a gun shop and scope out models and prices to get a feel for the range available. A lightly used gun can be a good deal.

My first handgun was a revolver and I still shoot revolvers best. They are simple. They are totally reliable. Grab - point - shoot. Loading is intuitively simple. Open, put in bullets, close.

Revolvers also shoot differently with respect to recoil. They tend to push back at you, whereas automatics tend to flip up. Revolvers point at the target the same way you just point your finger at someone. So they are easy to aim and tend to be very accurate.

Under stress, if God forbid you should actually have to use one, a revolver will not give you the kinds of opportunities for failure that automatics do. You won't have to worry about safeties, magazines, jams, etc. Grab, point, fire. If it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger, you just pull again.

Don't pay much attention to caliber. Anything that feels comfortable to you is the winning choice. If you can get a friend or acquaintance to take you out to a range for some test shooting, or if a gun shop has some rental models, try out some revolvers from .22 to .38 and see how that goes. If you think you can handle more, try .357. Over and over, we discover that small women often shoot big guns just fine.

Also, if a stalker is harassing you, pointing a big, mean-looking shiny revolver at him will usually make him go away. Some little square black automatic thingie has poor intimidation value and he may not even realize you have a gun. Point a revolver at him, he'll find something else to do. Be armed, and be safe.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r136/southerneditor/sehgunfsh.png

Right now CDNN has a ported Taurus 85 for $320 NIB. Definitely take a course and get a permit if you intend to carry.

A few extra dollars now will save you a whole lot later.

Shawn

She loads it with Federal 36 gr hp rounds (they punch about 41/2 inches into wet pack, and, yes, they DO open up; no matter what 'they' say)

They may not open up in flesh, though. But that wouldn't necessary be a bad thing because then they may get adequate penetration.

Oh, I almost forgot, she's practiced groin shots too.:D

I think all women do! Thoughts of old boy friends, Ha.

Or future old boyfriends. :uhoh:

Edit: I personally would not advocate carrying a .22 rimfire. Even the latest and greatest loadings in 9mm - .45 ACP etc... still does not guarantee quick stops. Shot placement is almost everything (then penetration).

Shot placement improves with lots of aimed shots fired quickly, and not every novice can do this with a 9mm or even .38 Special handgun.

And with a .22, even more so! You pretty much have to put it in the eye sockets or heart.

If you use a load with adequate penetration, and they do exist, then .22 LR will work with pretty much the same shot placement as the larger calibers. The latter will give you a statistical edge in requiring slightly less precision, as well as some additional margin in penetrating hard structures such as bone, no doubt, but .22 LR is still quite lethal.

Asking a beginner to do this while stressed is a pretty tall order.

Asking a rank beginner to place more than one shot accurately (without a large pause to recompose oneself) with a service-class caliber is a pretty tall order, too.

In this order
A restraining order, maybe even 5 minutes with a lawyer for an opinion.

How could a piece of paper defend against a potential physical attack?

Then most people would carry 22's into harms way all the time. But they don't.

I wonder if that's because people keep searching for the elusive "stopping power" that I keep hearing about but nobody ever seems to find in a handgun. The end result is experienced, skilled shooters sensibly using the most powerful caliber they're comfortable with, and I imagine a number of less experienced and skilled shooters using too much gun for their own good.

Nobody commited to staying alive would carry a .22rf.

.22 has killed plenty of people.

Kinda like using a bicycle to travel the busy highways, I suppose I can be done but don't fool youself about it being good enough... Lol

Your analogy is more appropriate for a BB gun. Using a .22 is more like driving on a busy highway in a small car that has a maximum speed of 65 MPH. While it's a somewhat shaky proposition with marginal performance and safety characteristics, it can get the job done a majority of the time.

I view firearm calibers as a continuum of performance, which is why I'm always arguing with people who think that there is no difference between some calibers and their myriad loads on the one hand, and that some calibers are essentially ineffective on the other. I think that they're all effective and that there are differences in performance between them, albeit small in the common cases.

Don't pay much attention to caliber. Anything that feels comfortable to you is the winning choice. If you can get a friend or acquaintance to take you out to a range for some test shooting, or if a gun shop has some rental models, try out some revolvers from .22 to .38 and see how that goes. If you think you can handle more, try .357.

Go with the largest caliber that you can aim and shoot the fastest with sufficient accuracy. In my opinion, being able to handle a larger caliber only in slow-fire doesn't cut it because stopping power is a myth (unless you hit something extremely vital), and more rounds on the target is equivalent to better shot placement.

Over and over, we discover that small women often shoot big guns just fine.

While big, heavy guns are a bit harder to wield, they are generally easier and faster to shoot, as well as somewhat more effective in the longer barrel lengths. Carrying them might be more of an issue, but if they're going to be carried in a purse anyway, for example, then one could simply carry a sufficiently large purse.

Repeat, follow up shots are extremely important in any situation where you had to point a firearm at some attacker - - - two OR four legged. My wife can put most or all of a complete load within a 3 inch circle in two to five seconds from 20 feet. Federals, Velocitors, Stingers - - - it doesn't matter.

Nobody in combat or anywhere else is going to shoot just once. One Shot Stop doesn't practically apply. The bigger the weapon, the more difficult it is to make precise second or third shots. So the weapon you can get repeat on target hits with - - - is the one you should have with.

I don't carry all of the time - - - only if there could be a possible need. I'd rather have and not need than need and not have - - - and at one of those times, the best gun you own is the one you have with you.

Go to the local firing range that rents pistols. Unless you live in Tim-Buk-Toooo I'm certain there's one within 30 minutes driving distance.
Check out what they have available you may want to do some research over the phone before jumping into the car.
Fire numerous pistols both autos and revolvers.
Off the top of my head I would recommend a 38+P special revolver and a Glock model 19 9MM both be test fired. Be sure you load & reload to see how you like this aspect of each. There are many differences between an auto and a revolver so take your time. And don't be shy about asking questions. Most guys like assisting someone especially a lady with decisions like these. And if you are fortunate enough to find a range with female employees, that much better!
But regardless be sure to explore and spend a few bucks doing so.
AND perhaps most important is if you have someone that already is an enthusiast be sure to ask them for their opinion. They will probably take you to the rane and maybe if they own several firearms you'll be able to test fire theirs to help make a solid decision.
Best of luck and once you buy one practice, practice and practice more.

RUGER LCR or RUGER LCP

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html

If you use a load with adequate penetration, and they do exist, then .22 LR will work with pretty much the same shot placement as the larger calibers. The latter will give you a statistical edge in requiring slightly less precision, as well as some additional margin in penetrating hard structures such as bone, no doubt, but .22 LR is still quite lethal.
That edge is significant. Anybody got pics of .22 in gel? I doubt a .22 rimfire only requires slightly less precision to bleed out an attacker than a quality hollowpoint 9mm and up.


Asking a rank beginner to place more than one shot accurately (without a large pause to recompose oneself) with a service-class caliber is a pretty tall order, too. That is why I recommended taking some classes. So she can use a decent cal. pistol with acceptable accuracy.

.22 has killed plenty of people. Yes, mostly in accidents and assassinations. Not really my idea of a two sided life or death conflict.

Fighting to stay alive shouldn't be expected to be easy, one is better served with something bigger than a plinking round for squirrels and small birds.



Your analogy is more appropriate for a BB gun. Using a .22 is more like driving on a busy highway in a small car that has a maximum speed of 65 MPH. While it's a somewhat shaky proposition with marginal performance and safety characteristics, it can get the job done a majority of the time.
Nah, more like a moped.

No offense, and I don't mean to send the thread veering further away from the original topic, but I have to ask: I've seen countless arguments on the Internet about which caliber is better for self-defense, with most arguments boiling down to "I think" or "I feel". Anyone have any hard, scientific statistical data on the subject?

That edge is significant. Anybody got pics of .22 in gel?

Ballistic gel tells us some things, but it is not equivalent to a human body. For one thing, I doubt that the temporary cavity means much in a real shooting involving handguns and people.

I doubt a .22 rimfire only requires slightly less precision to bleed out an attacker than a quality hollowpoint 9mm and up.

.22 LR may indeed take longer to make a determined assailant bleed out during a shootout, but that's not a common scenario, relatively speaking. Affecting a stop typically involves psychological factors--for which having a gun is the most important aspect--as well as shot placement in the physical sense. While a 9mm hollow-point is a much larger projectile than an unexpanded .22 bullet when compared directly, they are both still small in comparison to the human body, so the 9mm bullet only offers a slight increase in the odds of disrupting the target's vitals, in addition to a greater margin in the odds of penetrating bone, including the skull, although .22 LR usually does fine on head shots.

That is why I recommended taking some classes. So she can use a decent cal. pistol with acceptable accuracy.

If somebody can shoot a larger, more powerful caliber than .22 LR well enough (and by this I mean shooting fast, not just accurately--you need both), then by all means they should--the high stakes involved can easily justify this. Heck, I use .40 S&W for defensive purposes because of the miniscule edge it may have over 9mm, just because I can and feel like it. But if somebody can't--and that would be most beginners I've seen--then they should use whatever caliber allows them to place the most shots on target, which in my opinion can improve one's chances more than the edge that one caliber may have over another per round (more shot placement is pretty much equivalent to better shot placement).

Yes, mostly in accidents and assassinations. Not really my idea of a two sided life or death conflict.

With the right loads in the right handguns, a .22 LR bullet can penetrate just as deeply as a typical 9mm JHP (granted, it is more likely to deflect off bone after penetrating some distance, but then again all bullets tend to do unpredictable things in real shootings). While being smaller results in a slight disadvantage in the probability of nicking vital structures, if you can get sufficient penetration then you have an effective round. Take a look at these test results from a short-barreled pistol, no less:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html

Note that the penetration of the calibration BB is within the accepted industry standard.

Fighting to stay alive shouldn't be expected to be easy, one is better served with something bigger than a plinking round for squirrels and small birds.

Bigger is better, all else being equal, but my point is that all else is not necessarily equal, namely the shooter. Besides, some consider .223 Remington/5.56x45mm out of a 20" bbl rifle nothing more than a varmint caliber, yet it is far more powerful than any service pistol. It's all relative, and I consider terminal ballistics a continuum in which .22 LR can get respectable penetration, and is therefore a respectable caliber (relative to other pistol calibers). Additionally, because it can help some shooters, particularly beginners, get more and/or better shot placement, it has advantages that go beyond what can be measured in gelatin. That it is unfairly disrespected and underestimated by the community of gun enthusiasts should not reflect poorly on the caliber itself.

If what I'm saying here seems controversial, it shouldn't be, given the move away from the old "bring enough gun" mentality (at least regarding handguns) and the outdated belief in handgun "stopping power." Lately I've been calling more attention to the skill of firing multiple accurate shots in quick succession--the obvious and very important element of shootings that is so often ignored in forum discussions--and now I've combined it with the natural progression of our understanding of handgun wounding, which emphasizes shot placement and penetration over old notions like "dumping energy."

.22 LR gives some people better overall shot placement and more shots placed accurately within a given period of time, which is good, and with the right loads offers what is considered by most to be good penetration. This covers the two most important aspects of handgun wounding. Having a larger projectile would be an advantage in and of itself, but it comes with tradeoffs and is therefore not necessarily an advantage overall for everybody. Unless a beginner who is forced to defend herself or himself right away is very strong and/or has exceptional natural skill, I'd feel more confident in their ability to handle a medium-frame 10-shot .22 LR revolver, for example, than a small-frame 5-shot .38 Special revolver (often an extremely lightweight model) that many would recommend. And the cool thing is that a .22 LR handgun will virtually always be useful later on, even when the shooter has moved on to larger calibers for defensive purposes.

Nah, more like a moped.

OK, but with decent penetration in the gel tests I linked above, make it a moped with highway speed and great range (i.e. high capacity in my other example, namely a Smith & Wesson 617)--sure, it's marginal and risky, but most of the time you'll survive and get to your destination. And also in analogy, some people can't drive anything larger just yet.

No offense, and I don't mean to send the thread veering further away from the original topic, but I have to ask: I've seen countless arguments on the Internet about which caliber is better for self-defense, with most arguments boiling down to "I think" or "I feel". Anyone have any hard, scientific statistical data on the subject?

Even "scientific statistical data" is disputed, and for good reason, based on what I've seen. Unfortunately, all we really can do is guess at things, using as much reasoning as possible, and let people decide for themselves what is best for them (i.e. what they're most comfortable with in every way).

By the way, I apologize for participating in what seems to be yet another tiresome caliber war hijacking a thread, but my real point is that beginners--particularly those who may need to defend themselves NOW--should try to find out what caliber they can handle without being overwhelmed by recoil and other effects. Real defensive shootings aren't much like typical range sessions, in which many people close one eye, take forever to aim, and slowly squeeeeeeze the trigger--they're more like "HOLY CRAP! BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!!! What just happened?!" Well, every shooting is different, but they all happen very fast and should have more than a single BLAM aimed toward the bad guy (or BANG or POP--whatever ;)).

I STRONGLEY suggest post number 22. Best of luck to you. Be safe. Shoot often. Have fun.

...
I'll maybe start to reconsider when anyone credible carries a .22rf. Even for back up.

P.S. The 9mm does not recoil that much in a glock19. ;)

Sorry for hi-jackin' the thread folks, I'm done.

how small and how powerful? revolver or automatic im guessing 9mm .38spc .380
some women dont have the hand strenght to work the slide on a auto
my wife can work my full and compact glocks but not the sub compact
for a carry gun keep it under 25ozs empty and not to large
do you have a carry permit? what state are you in? not cali i hope
look in a large gun shop and handle them first
LCP or P3AT in .380 $260-$300 both very light and small easy to carry
glock 19 9mm or the 26 with grip ext $400 i paid for my last glock new
the m&p9 compact is nice too but a lil heavier the XDc9 is too heavy
used j-frame .38
keltec pf9 or p11 $250
kahr cw9 $405
my wife hates revolvers long heavy triggers
5,2 100lbs tiny hands
she likes my 9mm glocks not the .40s and single stacked 1911s
get a fanny pack dont purse carry
budsgunshop online to get an idea on prices
.380 ammo is hard to find today

Princess,

First off, my I suggest you go to www.corneredcat.com and do some reading. This is a forum written by women, for women, and self confident men. There is a lot of good information there and just not on firearms. As for a pistol, go to a gun show and pick up as many as you want and note the ones which feel good. Next go to a range that rents pistols so you can shoot a few different ones. Finally, get some good instruction

If you are being stalked contact the police as if it comes to a confrontation, you will be in good stead legally.

Best of luck and I hope it works out for you.

My wife is 19 and i bought her a charter arms pink lady (her choice) .38 spl and she loves it. shes recoil sesitive and she didn't have a problem with it. it has big soft rubber grips, bold iron sights and was accurate at 15-20 yrds, for the exception of being pink lol i enjoyed shooting it myself. its also very lite if u ever decided to use it for carry.

I'll maybe start to reconsider when anyone credible carries a .22rf. Even for back up.

This is moot because virtually anybody who has credibility would be able to shoot a larger caliber well enough. Also, those who have credibility are usually motivated to maintain their credibility, which means avoiding controversy and extremes most of the time, while those who have no credibility, like me, are free to describe any truths that their sense of reason can deduce, no matter how controversial. The logic that I've used is exceedingly simple and straightforward, and I provided credible test data to back up my claims. The only questionable aspects are the assumptions I used that are based on our collective and cumulative understanding of handgun wounding.

P.S. The 9mm does not recoil that much in a glock19. ;)

While I can barely feel the difference between the recoil of 9mm and .40 S&W in similar handguns myself, many would say that the difference is large and has a significant effect on their ability to quickly and accurately place followup shots. In my opinion, the difference between .22 LR and 9mm is much greater in this respect, and I bet that many beginners could shoot the former significantly better than they could the latter, as a result.

Sorry for hi-jackin' the thread folks, I'm done.

I think this topic is relevant for beginners who may need to defend themselves right away, before they can put in enough training and practice to become as proficient with larger calibers.

I think that you need a robust non-lethal option, since you can't take your firearm to University lawfully. I think that your firearms should be concealable, easy to carry, heavy enough to shoot comfortably.

I think that if you do not have the hand strength for a semiauto than a 2.25 inch barrel ruger sp 101 is ideal.

If you can handle racking the slide of a semiauto a glock 26 is outstanding.

I think that you should consider a robust non lethal self defense option that is legal for 24/7 carry such as a taser or taser safe pepper spray. I recommend both fox labs pepper spray in key chain and 2oz container size. The fox labs spary is cheap (under $25) yet extremely effective. The taser C2 might be the best option but it is about $275 and is extremely robust.

I hope that you also practice and get a concealed carry license.

Best of luck and stay safe.

I can not emphasis enough that I think that you should carry a robust, legal method of self defense 24/7. The pepper spray and/or taser C2 may be your best first purchase. I believe that it is important to be armed 24/7 in your situation, as you simply do not know if, when, nor where he will present a threat.

Stay safe

Affecting a stop typically involves psychological factors--for which having a gun is the most important aspect--as well as shot placement in the physical sense.

That's an important note. It applies to this discussion for an unusual reason: the threat is known beforehand.

Most people carry for general defense. You never know what may happen, so you carry as much as you can handle.

Here, the suspected perp is a known factor. Not a hopped-up drug-crazed 300-lb street fiend, but rather a skeevy stalker-type individual.

So maybe this guy is a sicko. A shrine-builder. The type who nurses twisted and bizarre fantasies. And maybe one day he's gonna buy himself a little kit, with rope, duct tape, etc. One night he decides to act on his wayward impulses, and heads out with a plan. Well whatever it is that he has in mind, it probably does not involve having a gun pointed at him. And it sure won't involve him eating bullets.

If his intended victim is armed and ready, he isn't going to care what caliber gun he's facing - he's going to go find something else to do instead.