garand availability, value


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dakotasin
July 18, 2010, 05:24 PM
i made it to the range today for a hi-power match. one of the guys that was shooting there brought 3 m-1 carbines and 2 garands and put them up for sale. i already have a carbine, but not a garand, so...

garand 1 appears to be in new condition, and the wood is new (not sure how old the wood is, but it is not original to the gun and is flawless). apparently this is/was a danish gun, and was built in 1944(?). it was re-barrelled with a danish barrel in 1960, and really not touched since then. ask price is $600.

garand 2 is in good condition. it was built in 1945(?) and re-barrelled in 1965. the bore and internals are in great shape, but there is minor pitting under the action its not readily visible, but it is there. the function of the rifle is not impeded in any way, and were it not for the pitting i doubt many people would think the gun was anything less than perfect. the wood is original to the gun, and has some marks on it. nothing too awful bad, but it is certainly not perfect. ask price is $500.

both guns are by springfield armory.

i know absolutely nothing about garands. in fact, today was the first time i ever even touched one.

are these guns at these prices pass or play? if play, which would you choose? my purposes for the garand are 'just because'. i am likely to shoot it on occasion - i'm not a collector, just an accumulator.

i don't recall exact serial numbers... the danish one started with a 2, and the 'regular' one started w/ a 3. both of them had a similiar amount of numbers, though i couldn't tell you if it was 6 or 7 diigits long.

thanks for any help.

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Utah1
July 18, 2010, 05:33 PM
Sounds like #1 is the better rifle. $600 doesn't sound like a bad price.

I presume you've heard of the offerings from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

www.thecmp.org

gondorian
July 18, 2010, 05:38 PM
Play prices for sure, new old ones cost $500 from the cmp, and that is with a halfway shot out barrel.

az_imuth
July 18, 2010, 05:40 PM
They both sound like pretty good deals to me. The Danish barrels are supposed to be outstanding shooters when they're in good shape. If he has CMP paperwork on these rifles then that would be even better since it would rule out welded receivers.

What was he asking for the carbines?

USSR
July 18, 2010, 07:41 PM
dakotasin,

While they sound nice, you need to check the bore and measure the degree of muzzle wear. Take a M2 ball round and insert the bullet end into the muzzle. If you have 1/4" of bullet showing between the muzzle and case mouth, it is excellent, 3/16" is a good bore, and anything less than that, pass on it.

Don (proud owner of 3 Garands)

benzy2
July 18, 2010, 07:54 PM
Both prices are fair, though from a collector point, the one with the original wood may be worth a bit more, even though it shows some use. When you look at rifles at the CMP, the $500 range typically has either good wood and mediocre metal, good metal and mediocre wood, or average wood and metal. The $600 range gets you a bit better of both, or decent metal and a new manufactured stock. The parts won't all be correct to the rifle, but they will be in good shape. For $500 or $600 they both sound like a decent deal. If you like them for how they look, and the one with the new manufacture stock looks better, you may want to go for it. Either rifle sounds like a decent option though. As USSR stated, there are a lot of M1s that look good but have the barrels shot out. See how much of an M2 ball round sticks out when placed bullet first into the muzzle. Also, as others have said, see if these were bought from the CMP. If so you know they are legit and were sold in good functioning condition. There are some M1's out there that had the receivers cut in half. Then a few shops decided to weld them back together. Some operate well, some don't, but the structural integrity of all of them is suspect at best. They really should be designated as a wall piece and not a rifle you would fire. The CMP never sold any welded M1s so knowing it came from them relieves that fear.

FMJMIKE
July 18, 2010, 07:56 PM
Garand number one sounds like a winner...............:D

dakotasin
July 19, 2010, 06:31 PM
thanks for the help, fellas! i'll get a closer look at them and probably get one if they're still there.

az - the carbines were all priced at $600 and were in great shape. obviously old and used, but well taken care of and not likely to have ever been in too harsh of conditions.

Col. Plink
July 19, 2010, 07:38 PM
I have a Danish Garand (the stock at least), how do I verify if the barrel is as well? Thanks!

XxWINxX94
July 19, 2010, 08:20 PM
For those prices, I'd take both.
In my neck of the woods, Garands don't really go for under $900 unless they are junk. I paid $1100 for mine!

Orlando
July 19, 2010, 08:26 PM
No such thing as a Danish Garand. You may have a USGI Garand that was loaned to the Danes then returned to the US Army.
"Sometimes" the Danish returns will have a "sight in" sticker in the barrel channel of the stock or a medallion on the pistol grip of the stock. If the Danish replaced the barrel it will be marked VAR

HorseSoldier
July 19, 2010, 08:29 PM
#1 sounds like a pretty good deal, with the previously mentioned caveats about bore/muzzle condition. I have a Danish barrel on one of my CMP rifles and it's an excellent shooter.

USSR
July 20, 2010, 07:20 AM
In my neck of the woods, Garands don't really go for under $900 unless they are junk. I paid $1100 for mine!

The CMP sells Service Grade Garands every day for $595 which have a good barrel and are serviceable in every way. I recently received a HRA Service Grade with a TE of 2 and a MW of 1. The only thing keeping it from being an $1100 Correct Grade was the bolt, oprod, and trigger group. I swapped parts with a guy who had what I needed and needed what I had, so I have a near mint correct rifle for about $630.

Don

shootr
July 20, 2010, 07:58 AM
What everyone else said re the CMP.

IME, VAR barrel in good shape = excellent shooter!

longdayjake
July 20, 2010, 09:19 AM
I wouldn't pass that one up.

Tim the student
July 20, 2010, 10:44 AM
If they are not rewelds, I'd think about either one of them - but I'd pay closer attention to the first one. Any idea how they shoot?

To me, the bad thing about buying an M1 from about anywhere other than the CMP (or some relatively high dollar places) is that you have to have a bit of knowledge about them if there are any problems with the gun. One of the best things about the CMP is that they will stand behind the guns they send out. They will be at their description, or better - not worse. If you have problems with it, their CS is very good. I think that is something to think about. You may be able to fix any problems easily, but then again, maybe you won't.

If you do get either one, make sure you post pics, and give a range report.

FWIW, you can get a Service Grade for $595 + 23 bucks in shipping.

the wood is original to the gun,

Maybe you (he) meant that the wood is correct for the gun? I'd very much doubt that it was original to that gun. With a quick glance at one of my books, the cartouche needs to be an SA/NFR for it to be original to the gun. (I might be wrong on that, but I don't think I am.) Even if it has that, there is no guarantee that specific stock was on that specific gun when it left SA.

I have a Danish Garand (the stock at least), how do I verify if the barrel is as well? Thanks!

Here (http://www.odcmp.com/services/rifles/Danish.htm) is a link with some info on Danish barrels.

HB
July 20, 2010, 11:59 AM
FWIW, you can get a Service Grade for $595 + 23 bucks in shipping.
Both the guns you describe sound like a good deal because the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up. People will tell you they are ok but most of them have the finish gone and the wood dark, oily, and banged up...


HB

GRIZ22
July 20, 2010, 12:14 PM
The Danish barrels are supposed to be outstanding shooters when they're in good shape.

I have a Field Grade with a VAR barrel that measure 2 at each end. I handpicked it at the CMP North Store. It is the best shooting M1 I have and shoots 2" or less at 100 yards with service ammo. I'm sure I could cut that in half if I work at a reload for the gun.

If he has CMP paperwork on these rifles then that would be even better since it would rule out welded receivers.


This is true. A reweld is pretty easy to spot though if you remove the bolt.

CZguy
July 20, 2010, 12:21 PM
Both the guns you describe sound like a good deal because the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up. People will tell you they are ok but most of them have the finish gone and the wood dark, oily, and banged up...

The rifles below were all CMP service grades. It's not hard at all to clean up a stock. I think that the CMP is a great source for these old rifles.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1GarandHRA.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1I.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/03A3II.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/badgerone/M1CarbineII.jpg

Tim the student
July 20, 2010, 02:38 PM
the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up.

So uh, what is your definition of "very beat up"? CZguy's sure don't look beat up to me, and yet they are all Service Grades.

If those are "very beat up" then I'd love to see what you would call a beautiful rifle.

No offense, but how many Service Grades have you laid your eyes on? How many of those have been cleaned up, even if it was only a couple hours worth?

USSR
July 20, 2010, 02:46 PM
Both the guns you describe sound like a good deal because the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up.

My "very beat up" Service Grade Garand.

Don

http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/Garand_HRA3.jpg

lumbergh
July 20, 2010, 06:23 PM
Why fight the obvious?

CMP

Col. Plink
July 20, 2010, 07:48 PM
+1 on hand-picked field grade Garands at the CMP!!

Mine has a Danish stock, I'll look for the barrel marking tonight! It soots like a m f r, by the way...

Orlando
July 20, 2010, 07:56 PM
Just because it has the sight in sticker does not mean its a Danish Stock.The sticker could be in a USGI stock.
Some of the Danish stocks had the metal medallion on pistol grip. Another way to identify them they could be Beech stocks. They have "fish scales" and in my opinion are some of the ugliest wood stocks

HB
July 20, 2010, 11:22 PM
So uh, what is your definition of "very beat up"? CZguy's sure don't look beat up to me, and yet they are all Service Grades.

If those are "very beat up" then I'd love to see what you would call a beautiful rifle.

No offense, but how many Service Grades have you laid your eyes on? How many of those have been cleaned up, even if it was only a couple hours worth?

Id say I've seen about 200. I've visited both stores in Camp Perry and Anniston personally as well. However, I've never seen one cleaned up in person. Some are way better than others and with work I'm sure they'd look ok to great depending on your time spent. If you want a garand, get a garand but remember they are WWII surplus which would be the draw for me. However, don't expect a mueseum piece if you order one at random. I own a yugo sks that came with a beater stock but with alot of time and some linseed oil, it came out quite nice and is an accurate shooter out to 200 to 300 yards

HB

Orlando
July 21, 2010, 06:33 AM
I have handled many thousands of Garands at the North Store and Service Grades are not junk. They are nice rifles and well worth the money.
If you are expecting a museum piece yes you will be dissapointed. If you want a battle rifle that has been there done that but has many ,many years of life left you will be very happy.

ol' scratch
July 21, 2010, 05:48 PM
The first rifle sounds good depending how the barrel gages. You are paying CMP prices for it right now. The Danish barrels (VAR) are supposed to be some of the best, but not if it is shot out. You are not getting a 'great' deal here because of what is coming out of the CMP, but it is fair.

ol' scratch
July 21, 2010, 06:09 PM
The CMP sells Service Grade Garands every day for $595 which have a good barrel and are serviceable in every way. I recently received a HRA Service Grade with a TE of 2 and a MW of 1. The only thing keeping it from being an $1100 Correct Grade was the bolt, oprod, and trigger group. I swapped parts with a guy who had what I needed and needed what I had, so I have a near mint correct rifle for about $630.

Don

Me too, but my barrel is an LMR. My stock is also correct.

ol' scratch
July 21, 2010, 06:14 PM
Both the guns you describe sound like a good deal because the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up. People will tell you they are ok but most of them have the finish gone and the wood dark, oily, and banged up...

HB

Been a while since you have been to the store, if you have been to the stores. My H & R has great stock and original. Not beat up, a few dings but nothing major. Original honey brown color too.

My rifle had a new old stock barrel. Not even MOST of the rifles at the CMP right now fit the discription you mentioned. I know, I was just there this afternoon.

Slug
July 21, 2010, 07:32 PM
Banged up? Not sure what rifles you've been seeing. My service grades were beautiful out of the box. Came to me this year. CMP has been shipping some very nice rifles lately.

1 coat of pure tung oil on the rifle in the back, thats it. Front rifle is straight out of the box.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/stock1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/bothrifles2-1.jpg

Both service grades
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/bothrifles1-1.jpg

Springfield
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/m1garand2.jpg

The Springfield (Redder of the two) is a USGI walnut stock and has a couple of dings in it...character marks. This thing is Korean war era, what do you expect? I'm thrilled with both of these and wouldn't change my purchase at all because of a few little dimples in the wood. Muzzle wear on both of these is less then 2. Amazing shooters. Wood darkening is a combination between the cosmoline and handling of it. Take the cosmoline out and use some tung oil and it lightens right up.

So again, banged up? Really? To the OP, get one from the CMP, you'll be happy.

Ignition Override
July 21, 2010, 07:46 PM
You guys have very picturesque M-1s. :)There seems to be nothing like them.

Based on my "gun guru's" very seasoned, extensive gun knowledge and over a hundred Internet comments about the CMP's evaluations /descriptions of its Garands, would not consider a Garand from a stranger.

The CMP's new heap of Greek GI M2 ammo could last years.
Why pay the over-inflated prices for recycled (:scrutiny:altered/'modified'?) CMP rifles or GI ball ammo on "GB" and in gun shows etc?

ol' scratch
July 28, 2010, 02:02 PM
Both the guns you describe sound like a good deal because the "service grade" guns are about the same price and are very beat up. People will tell you they are ok but most of them have the finish gone and the wood dark, oily, and banged up...


HB

Just wanted to revisit this. All of the Garands are Greek returns. The top two are service grades, the bottom one is a service special. The top rifle was a little oily, but I got it to clean up mostly. The second rifle and a beautiful H & R stock on it and it is a service grade. I took the stock off and switched it with the rifle below it to make the special service a correct. I did nothing to the stock before swapping it. My rifles all gauge low (top one muzzle 1, throat 1.5, second to top, 1 muzzle, throat 1.5, bottom Garand, negative muzzle, throat 1).
If you think the above description is correct regarding the Greek returns, you NEED to get to a CMP store. I paid $595 for the top two rifles.

Col. Plink
July 28, 2010, 03:37 PM
Field Grades are only $495 and GEMS can be found with the help of the staff! Mine is mechanically almost perfect (a '55 SA, ser# around 6.5mil) and with a stock that I like for it's rugged good looks.

Sport45
July 28, 2010, 09:59 PM
My service grade HRA as delivered from CMP:

http://images.photo2.walgreens.com/232323232%7Ffp53252%3Enu%3D3269%3E388%3E853%3EWSNRCG%3D323453%3A633%3B9%3Bnu0mrj

After a bit of work....

http://images.photo2.walgreens.com/232323232%7Ffp53248%3Enu%3D3269%3E388%3E853%3EWSNRCG%3D323453%3A63%3B5%3A5nu0mrj

My son using it at a Garand match a few years ago...

http://images.photo2.walgreens.com/232323232%7Ffp5324%3A%3Enu%3D3269%3E388%3E853%3EWSNRCG%3D323453%3A%3A54744nu0mrj

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