Milsurp appreciation...


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Hatterasguy
July 21, 2010, 12:29 AM
I have a few milsurp rifles and plan on adding a few more to my collection, I love shooting them. I'm a huge history buff and have done extensive reading on the second World War.

What I like about milsurps is the connection they provide to the brave souls that faught the battles I have read so much about. Every mark, bump, or nick is a part of history. An otherwise pretty good M1 carbine stock may have a chunk taken out of it. But that chunk might be from when the solider had to dive in a hole to avoid fire, or maybe a gernade went off nearby.

For example as I'm shooting a Mosin or K98 they get hot, really freaken hot! I also noticed the sights get extremly hot and I'm not really shooting it that much. I can only imagin the German or Russian solider shooting one in a battle, shooting it so much the shellac on the stock bubbles, and it gets so hot its hard to handle. But another attack is coming, shells are bursting everywhere and they must keep shooting, even as the stock smokes and there hands burn they have to keep working the action. The noise is so loud you can't hear a thing, the smoke and smell of the powder burns there eyes, but they have to keep shooting. As a result picking that K98 off the table 70 years later the barrel might be a little shot out, the stock might be a little rough. But the rifle still shoots.

I love milsurps because they provide a very small window into the past of what these brave souls went through. They are a part of history you can hold in your hands.

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LHRGunslinger
July 21, 2010, 12:46 AM
+1. Wonderfully put Hatterasguy

davidjblythe
July 21, 2010, 12:53 AM
If only they could talk...

Hatterasguy
July 21, 2010, 01:06 AM
Oh they could tell some stories!

My Mosin and M1 carbine have notch's in there stocks, and initials. If only they could talk about what they have seen...

Lee Roder
July 21, 2010, 01:17 AM
They might not want too. My dad would never talk about his experiences in the Pacific so I never developed any appreciation for these things until after he died. Now that i'm interested, history's gone

Zack
July 21, 2010, 01:34 AM
For example as I'm shooting a Mosin or K98 they get hot, really freaken hot

I ran 20 rounds QUICK ( fast as I could) through my MN it was very hot. I burnt my finger on it. I can image if you had to dump 50 rounds in 30 mins or less defending a postion. The wood could catch fire? I seen a ak47 catch fire

ironcode
July 21, 2010, 01:35 AM
Regarding guns getting hot, I think the sun is the real culprit. Sun shining onto black metal on a clear day tends to have such an effect on it :-)

Deus Machina
July 21, 2010, 01:43 AM
Nope, a Nagant gets hot just fine on its own.

Indoor shooting, and thirty or so quick rounds of steel-jacketed FMJ heats it up enough you remember why they put the upper stock on there.

Hillbillyz
July 21, 2010, 11:51 AM
Not to hijack the thread, but to add to what Lee Roder said. If you know someone that served in the military record their stories if they are willing to talk. It doesn't matter if they served in WWII or Iraq. The weapons will be around a lot longer than the warriors. Once the warrior is gone we have lost a piece of history and many times a piece of family history. Vietnam vets many of you have spent time trying to forget that period of your life. It's important that today's generation knows what you went through. So that your sacrifice is remembered and so that we don't end up having to repeat history.

NavyLCDR
July 21, 2010, 12:28 PM
I could not agree more! I love the original, unaltered milsurps. I cringe whenever I see an old M1 or Mauser action all sporterized with nothing but the receiver left original (well, and tapped for scope mounts).

jimmyraythomason
July 21, 2010, 12:44 PM
Every mark, bump, or nick is a part of history. Yes and the imagination can invent a lot of scenarios to explain the dents and dings that were inflicted after the arm got into civilian hands. NavyLT,if you were to look into my gun safe you would positively throw-up!

hso
July 21, 2010, 02:46 PM
We don't do French bashing here so if your "funny" post disappeared that's probably why.

Keep in mind that a lot of dings and dents on American weapons are handling and rack marks. Weapons had to meet particular standards to be in re-issuable condition and cracks and stock damage that could lead to failure usually lead to stock replacement.

searcher451
July 21, 2010, 03:25 PM
A variety of handguns fall into this category as well, including the CZs, the various Walther (such as the PP and the P.38 models), and a wide variety of otherse. While the Manurhin-made PP/PPK and P.38 post-war pistols for Walther, which are extraordinarily well-built, don't fall into the milsurp category per se, they are still worth mentioning as readily available and of superb quality.

Cosmoline
July 21, 2010, 05:23 PM
I've seen some Mosins that circumnavigated the globe with marks on them going back to the Russo-Japanese war. Some of the Turkish rifles are also very fascinating, including the "Enfausers" made up from parts of both Enfields and Mausers after Gallipoli.

But the most interesting were the M48 Yugo Mausers from the recent Bosnian conflict. The young fighters decorated the stocks with shellac-covered cutouts from various teen magazines. This is the origin of the Hasselhoff Mauser.

http://www.texastradingpost.com/yugosniper/HaselhoffM48.html

There's also one with Shannen Doherty on it. It's a post-modern mix of ancient ethnic violence with modern pop culture.

ol' scratch
July 21, 2010, 07:20 PM
Regarding guns getting hot, I think the sun is the real culprit. Sun shining onto black metal on a clear day tends to have such an effect on it :-)
Shooting this past winter on a day when the wind chill was 15 below zero. Did a 30 round string with my Garand. Put my hand up near the gas tube and burned my hand.

The rifle did cool down much faster, however.

Opoche
July 21, 2010, 07:20 PM
I love the history which is why I leave them intact. My Lee-Enfied No. 5 has the most hideous finish on it. Maritime paint on the metal and a stock that looks like the it was dipped in maple syrup a few minutes ago. Left over "water proofing" from the Malay insurgency and I wouldn't change a thing.
Quality of build for the price can't be beat on some surplus stuff. K31s and Swede Mausers come to mind for rifles.
I love some of the looks I get at the range when I pull out some weird old rifle no one has ever seen before. That and the looks I get when I touch off a round from a Mosin carbine, my Steyr 95/30 or Hakim.

wrench
July 21, 2010, 07:23 PM
I love the old milsurp rifles. Whether they are in pristine, unissued condition, or beat up old war horses, I love them.
Often they have gorgeous wood, and craftsmanship like you just don't see anymore.

usnmars
July 21, 2010, 07:47 PM
Just thinking about what they have been through gives you a greater appreciation for the rifles, and the servicemen that carried them. Here is my m91 that is covered in shrapnel, god only knows what this thing has been through.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/nattcmars/M91/DSC00150.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/nattcmars/M91/DSC00142.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/nattcmars/M91/DSC00147.jpg

SSN Vet
July 21, 2010, 08:09 PM
I can't help thinking that for me, mil surp. rifles would be like crack.

I know that if I buy just one, I'll be addicted for life and will soon be raiding the kiddies piggy bank so I can get just one more fix. :)

usnmars
July 21, 2010, 09:14 PM
yeah, that is the stage I am at. It is really sad when gun shops call you when they get in new milsurp. Or even worse, my birthday was last month, 2 shops gave me rifles for my birthday. Not cheap junk either, a No.1 Mk. 3 Enfield, and a Yugo capture mauser. That is when I realized I spend waaaaay too much money at those places.

wishin
July 21, 2010, 09:28 PM
I often think with regret about having sold the two Mausers and Luger I once owned. I'm now down to a WWII German marked Hi Power.

bushmaster1313
July 21, 2010, 10:52 PM
1944 Stevens 620:


http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/CIMG3733.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/CIMG3725.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/CIMG3729.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/CIMG3732.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/Stevens/CIMG3783.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/Stevens/CIMG3787.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/Stevens/CIMG3789.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww6/bushmaster1313/Stevens/CIMG3792.jpg

Hatterasguy
July 21, 2010, 11:03 PM
Some very nice pictures.

wrench if you ever sell that K31 with a K11 handle on it??? Let me know, I want it after you are done!

I think rifles are such a good connection because they were such an important item to the solider who carried them. The wear on them is not from willful abuse, its from the necessity of combat.

I put 60 rounds through my Mosin 91/30 today pretty quickly but not that quick. In combat that rifle would quickly heat up to the point that it would become painfull to work. However its a trusty weapon if you can work the action and point it, no matter how hot it gets she will shoot. Judging by the tickmarks on the stock it has ended a few German lives. As a Russian solider I would have a lot of confidence in my rifle.

My favorite milsurp is my grandfathers old M1 carbine. It has a very minor amount of rust on it, which has been commented on at the range. My grandfather landed on the beach with that rifle, it has taken salt water baths, it was also not cleaned right away due to the reality of combat. That rust is a badge of honor for that rifle, it has come ashore under fire, returned it and came back. Even though its not perfect it still functions perfectly, and is accurite.

bushmaster1313
July 21, 2010, 11:07 PM
Even though its not perfect it still functions perfectly, and is accurite.


Not perfect?

Hatterasguy
July 21, 2010, 11:13 PM
Some cosmetic wear to the exterior metal, blueing is so so, also a bit of pitting. Grandpa also varnished the stock!

Considering that she is an old warhorse she is in remarkable condition. IMHO perfect old rifles while interesting don't tell a story. This rifles conditon tells a story, it will never be "like new" because it has seen a lot of combat use. Frankly combat in the South Pacific is hard on guns.

Having said all that I can put a full mag in it today and it will function 100%. Back than we knew how to make rifles, this carbine even with WW2 mags is still a totaly reliable rifle.

wrench
July 21, 2010, 11:48 PM
wrench if you ever sell that K31 with a K11 handle on it??? Let me know, I want it after you are done!

Thanks, Hatterasguy:)
It is a K11, beautiful rifle that shoots like a dream. Not going to be getting rid of it anytime soon, though.;)
Here's another view....

Hatterasguy
July 22, 2010, 12:24 AM
That tigger stripe is pretty!

Fantastic rifle, I would treasure it!:cool:

Ignition Override
July 22, 2010, 01:29 AM
Opoche:
Have two LE #5 :)"Jungle Carbines" and a #4:).
A first Garand will be here in August:). Why a Garand?

Hatterasguy: If you can ever go visit the E and F Company foxholes outside Bastogne, Belgium ("the Bulge"), very close to the village of Foy, you will be glad. The superb Flemish guide, Mr. Reg Jans knows several veterans personally and describes their actions as if you were in those skirmishes and battles. This motivated me.

Afy
July 22, 2010, 05:36 AM
My STGW had the name and address of the person it was issued to. I have dropped him a letter, just asking about his experience with it, as well as to let him know its in a good home.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh178/afy08/STG2.jpg

Unofrtunately I do not know the history of my Vz 24 or Vz 58.

Palehorseman
July 22, 2010, 05:07 PM
Regarding guns getting hot, I think the sun is the real culprit. Sun shining onto black metal on a clear day tends to have such an effect on it :-)

Here in this part of AZ, at 119 degrees, can blister your fingers on the gun steel before the first shot is fired.:eek:

ol' scratch
July 28, 2010, 12:52 AM
From Top to Bottom
1943 Springfield (Muzzle 1, Throat 1+, 1955 barrel)
1955 (according to the barrel date) H & R with an original to the rifle LMR Barrel (Muzzle 1, Throat 1+)
1955 H & R Correct-swapped the stock with my other H & R to make it happen. Everything matches-Chamber in the white. (Muzzle negative, throat 1)
1928 1903 Springfield with 1938 Barrel (Muzzle 1, throat, 2)
Two cans of SL AP ammo. Lots more in the basement, but couldn't get it in the shot. It is normally resting comfortably in the original armory box.

1858
July 28, 2010, 01:42 AM
I love milsurps because they provide a very small window into the past of what these brave souls went through. They are a part of history you can hold in your hands.

Talking of small windows into the past, here's a photo of two of my relatives that served with the Durham Light Infantry and fought in World War I. Lieutenant Rollo Atkinson was killed (20th February, 1916) at Armentières during the attrition around Hill 60 where the division was in the line during Feb/Mar 1916. During 18/19 Feb the Germans increased the pressure with mines, bombardments and small attacks. Railway Dugouts Cemetery has numerous DLI graves from this period.

These photos always remind me of Rupert Brooke's poem "The Soldier" ...

"If I should die, think only this of me
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is forever England."

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/lee-enfield/photos/sedgwick_otc_1908.jpg

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/lee-enfield/photos/rollo_atkinson.jpghttp://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/lee-enfield/photos/leonard_atkinson.jpg

:(

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