is it legal to conceal carry a handgun on a train?


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cajun47
July 24, 2010, 01:50 AM
i have a louisiana concealed handgun permit. can i ccw on a train from louisiana to another state that honors my chp? im not concerned with the railroad's policy. just the law.

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Sunray
July 24, 2010, 02:08 AM
"...I'm not concerned with the railroad's policy..." You should be. A railroad is no different than any other private business. I think they fall under Federal rules just like a domestic airline. Call 'em and ask.

Gryffydd
July 24, 2010, 02:29 AM
A railroad is no different than any other private business.
I think they fall under Federal rules just like a domestic airline.
Err, which one is it?
I've carried on Amtrak before. It's against their rules, but not the law--at least here in Washington. Telling us your destination would be helpful.

Sam1911
July 24, 2010, 02:40 AM
In December of last year a large spending bill was signed into law that made it clear (well ... sort of) that passengers may have firearms in their CHECKED baggage.

The bill Congress passed mandates that passengers with firearms declare they have weapons with them in advance and stow them in locked boxes while on the train.

This is the famous "whoopsie" which actually required that the passengers be in locked boxes. :rolleyes: I haven't heard if this is fixed yet or not.

cajun47
July 24, 2010, 03:02 AM
the question just popped into my head. just wondering. i would like to go to colorado one day. i do not fly, thats for the birds.

Quiet
July 24, 2010, 04:56 AM
AFAIK...
To be legal, transporting firearms on a train is the same as if you were flying.
Meaning, it needs to be unloaded and in a locked container.

dogtown tom
July 24, 2010, 12:30 PM
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&idno=27#27:3.0.1.2.3.3.1.13

478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
top
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part: Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975, and amended by T.D. ATF–354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF–361, 60 FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]

Gryffydd
July 24, 2010, 12:43 PM
Allow me to change the emphasis:
Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm
Let's also look at the title of this section:
478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

I'm not 100% sure that applies to the OP. I'm not saying I'm sure it doesn't either, but it just doesn't sound like it's describing a personal sidearm. Of course, the Feds like to really push the definition of interstate commerce...

It is interesting though that the paragraph that statement is a part of is devoted entirely to the shipment of firearms.

gc70
July 24, 2010, 03:06 PM
Here is the document describing Amtrak's Checked Firearms Program (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1249210879002&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-disposition&blobheadervalue1=attachment;filename=Amtrak_FirearmsInCheckedBaggage061010.pdf).

Here is Amtrak's general policy on firearms (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Content_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267293829):

Prohibited Items

The following kinds of items are prohibited as both checked and carry-on baggage:

* Any type of gun, firearm, ammunition, explosives, or weapon. (See note below regarding firearms in checked baggage)

And here is some information (http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d19-Virginia-OKs-gun-carry-on-trains) about Virginia allowing concealed carry on trains in that state.

While this does not answer the OP's question, it provides a starting point for further research.

razorback2003
July 24, 2010, 05:14 PM
I know local trains....like in Nashville you can carry a handgun on them. There aren't metal detectors to get on those trains. There aren't metal detectors to get on the local train in Atlanta either and i'm pretty sure it's legal now to carry on the public transit trains in the Atlanta metro area.

I've never been on an Amtrak train.....I've heard they used to not do metal detectors from friends who rode it....kind of like a bus (where you can carry whatever you want on it). Now as far as legal...heck..that's a tough one if they don't screen passengers like airports....I guess if the handgun is small and hidden on you and you're found out you'd probably be dropped off at the next stop for breaking their policy.

Sam1911
July 24, 2010, 05:42 PM
From a CBS news article back when the Senate was getting ready to pass the new legislation:

The Senate voted Wednesday to permit passengers on the Amtrak passenger railroad to transport handguns in their checked baggage.

The proposal, approved by a 68-30 vote, seeks to give Amtrak riders rights comparable to those enjoyed by airline passengers, who are permitted to transport firearms provided that they declare they are doing so and that the arms are unloaded and in a securely locked container.

...

Current Amtrak policy, put in place after the bombings of passenger trains in Madrid five years ago, prohibits weapons, including firearms, from being carried on its trains.

...

Prior to the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, Amtrak permitted firearms to be carried on its trains so long as they were separately secured in locked baggage or carrying cases. But it added restrictions on carrying weapons after 9/11 and imposed a total ban on all weapons after the Madrid bombings.


This is the bill that was passed into law in December.

The question seems to be, does Amtrak policy have the weight of federal law? Do violations of that policy carry penalties beyond refusal of service?

For some reason, I can't find those answers anywhere. The recent bill would deny funding if Amtrak didn't change their POLICY, but I care less about their policy than I do about the law.

Supertac45
July 24, 2010, 06:13 PM
There is no law that I can find that says I can't carry on trains. It's an AmTrack policy. Big deal, kick me off.

Sam1911
July 24, 2010, 06:44 PM
There is no law that I can find that says I can't carry on trains. It's an AmTrack policy. Big deal, kick me off.

As a federally funded entity, this may get somewhat muddy. It would be extremely important to be sure.

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