Old WWII saber.


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Jonah71
July 25, 2010, 10:42 AM
I was given an old saber from WWII that (according to the person who retreived it from the body of a dead soldier. He wasn't carrying it but was impaled by it.) Anyway back to the facts....It is about 3' long double edge tip on first 6". Made by Collins & C0. Hartford. Also has on the blade ACERO FINO ------TIZADA and (I can't read all of it)-GITIMU. Has a brass hilt. Hardwood kinda greenish brown in color. Also No. 216. Is this for real as far as era etc. No interest in selling. Just curious. Still looks like old oxidized blood on the blade.

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mg.mikael
July 25, 2010, 01:56 PM
If your gonna tease us with this post at least post some pics, please.

ArfinGreebly
July 25, 2010, 02:00 PM
Could we have a picture or six?

I'm not familiar with the make, but a few photos would help get an idea of design, fit & finish, stuff like that.

I'll see what I can find on Collins.

ArfinGreebly
July 25, 2010, 02:12 PM
First up, there's this page (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/marks/page1.html).

Which has this paragraph:
Collins and Co., Hartford Conn.
Collins and Company was one of the smaller producers of swords for the Civil War. The company had contracts for 1000 musician swords and 648 NCO swords, in addition to its orders for officer swords. I’ve also seen Marine NCO swords made by this company. There only appears to have been one style of marking used during the war, but I’ve seen the date placed on either side of the blade. Oddly enough, these swords were not inspected by the US government, and therefore are missing the US mark and the inspection mark. After the war, the company continued to make swords that were used in later conflicts in South America, and had US government contracts to make machetes up through WWII. A late version of their mark includes the word ‘Legitimus.’
Pictures:
M1840 NCO sword (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/marks/ccnco.jpg)
M1840 Marine Corps NCO sword (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcollector/marks/ccusmc.jpg)
And the pictures linked above are these:
124747 <-- the M1840 NCO sword 124748 <-- the USMC NCO sword

Cosmoline
July 25, 2010, 02:22 PM
"GITIMU" is likely part of LEGITIMUS which was part of the Collins stamp. No. 216 is the style of blade.

"TIZADA" is likely part of "GARANTIZADA" as in "garantizada calidad" or guaranteed quality.

I believe these were sold along with working machetes to the South American market. Could be 19th century but would likely be later 19th century if I'm reading the stamps correctly--after the manufacture of mass produced bar stock blades became common.

Acero fino is the stamp that means fine made or good quality, and was used on steel from Collins Co. They were a pioneer in the mass production of working blades.

http://www.vikingsword.com/rila/index.html

You'd probably need access to a book for Collins collectors to get a date certain and to see if it has any connection to WWII (it probably doesn't, but who knows). Not sure who would have been impaling whom on such a blade at that point.

Old Shooter
July 25, 2010, 03:56 PM
So where's the PICTURES?

rcmodel
July 25, 2010, 03:59 PM
Hardwood kinda greenish brown in colorThat would not be hardwood.
If Collins had anything to do with making it, it is green Buffalo horn.

Legitimus Collins machetes had a wide following & a corporate presence, in all developing countries during the late 19th and early 20th century when they were being settled by caucasians & turned into plantations of various sorts.

I could see about anything made by Legitimus Collins turning up in a dead body in the south pacific islands or New Guenna fighting in WWII.

Assorted Collins machetes:
There is a #216, probably like yours, at top of this tiny photo.
http://www.proxybid.com/AuctionImages/1290/24163/CatThumb/12682_01.jpg

rc

bikerdoc
July 25, 2010, 07:38 PM
RC,

You are amazing.

Jonah71
July 25, 2010, 08:48 PM
Thanks folks. That's just what I wanted to find out. It's going (as is) in a case on my wall. Didn't really expect it to be worth much $. But it's an interesting piece for me. With the exception of an old pair of German binocs, some empty mortor canisters, and a few old mags from a B.A.R.,and a few medals (both German & American) I have almost no WW II stuff.

ArfinGreebly
July 25, 2010, 10:06 PM
Found a few more pix of Collins work.

Page is here (http://www.cohenantiques.com/index/weapons/swords/page02/large/swordsFEATURE015.php). It's an earlier piece, but a nice example of the art.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=124772&d=1280105507

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=124773&d=1280105530

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=124774&d=1280105530

Civil War
N.C.O. Sword
Model 1840
Dated 1861

Manufactured by Collins, Hartford, Conn.

$795.00

rcmodel
July 26, 2010, 02:00 PM
Don't confuse the Collins, Hartford, Conn. civil war officers swords with the later Legitimus Collins Co of Collinsville Conn. who made mostly machetes & fighting knives like the V-44, #1029 Bolo, and #37 Signal Corp machete during WWI & WWII.

The Legitimus Collins Co. linage goes all the way back to the Collins Co, but I don't know the exact history. Oh wait!
Here it is:

http://www.yesteryearstools.com/Yesteryears%20Tools/Collins%20Pt.%201.html

Interesting stuff!

rc

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