[c919]

Lately, something has really been bugging me...

All too often, I'll be at one of the ranges that I frequent and I'll encounter groups of guys around my age (20-30) who are almost unbearable to shoot around. Obviously, it's not everyone in my age group. There are a ton of great guys around my age who shoot.

The guys that I'm talking about are the ones who incessantly, and loudly, spew misinformation and various taunts amongst themselves the entire time they are shooting. You know, the types who basically shout to make sure that everyone at the line hears what they have to say (which is generally entirely erroneous).

A good example is the guys I encountered a few weeks ago while shooting with my wife. There was about 5 of them. All college kids I assume. The minute they walk in one of them looks at his buddy and says "Do you wanna shoot the 9mm or the 45? Are you a girl or are gonna be a man?" :rolleyes: (All the while, my 4'11" wife is tearing a ragged hole with my M&P45c)

They went on like this for about an hour saying things like:

"Oh man, those home defense rounds have gone bad. See how the bullet isn't as shiny as mine. I'd throw those out."

"The 38 special is the dumbest round ever. It's for girls."

"All 1911's have that scratch. It's from cleaning."

"I sleep with a 12ga in my room because buckshot won't penetrate my apartment walls."

"The ACR is way better than the SCAR, you should know that, you play *some video game*"

"My cousin is a Ranger and he says....."

Etc, etc, etc....

And of course, the entire time they were there, they were just emptying mag after mag as fast as they could making no attempts at accuracy.

I even heard them making fun of some of the other shooters. And If my groups looked like theirs, I wouldn't be making fun of anyone's shooting.

I even tried to be friendly to them when one asked what I was shooting. I told him it was a SP101 and I asked what he was shooting. He told me it was a Taurus 1911, then he was kind enough to share some of his endless wisdom with me: "Do you carry that thing? I wouldn't. It only holds 6 rounds. I wouldn't bet my life on 6 rounds." Ok dude :rolleyes:. And the SP101 holds five anyhow.

To be honest, it made my day at the range a bit lame. Normally, I don't let others get to me like that, but my wife and I were both thoroughly annoyed. I could tell some of the other guys on the line were getting pretty irked as well. Most of the time, the range is filled with middle-aged guys with the occasional wife, and a few of us younger guys and gals. Those are the times I love. Everybody is friendly, we let each other try out our new guns, shoot the breeze, etc. But when groups like that show up and act like that, everybody is put on edge.

I want more people to enjoy shooting, and I'm even glad that those guys like to shoot. I just wish they weren't giving guys like me a bad rap. I feel like these types have put a stereotype on guys like me. To illustrate, I was dialing in my Eotech on my AR when I first got it and I had an older guy crack a joke at me to the tune of: "It's not as easy to shoot in real life as it is in those video games, is it?" I don't even like video games, but I understand that to him I just looked like some young guy with an expensive black rifle who couldn't shoot. And, I'm with him 100% that video games really impregnate new shooters with misinformation and what not.

So, do you guys get annoyed with this stuff? I know it's the gun world, and there's always going to be the guys who'll constantly share their movie based thoughts on guns, tactics, etc, and it's not just the young guys either.

Do you guys have these guys at you're range? The types that can change the whole vibe of the firing line in a few short minutes?

If so, does it throw off your shooting? I have heard a few guys say that they won't go on weekends because they say crowds like that throw off their shooting. It bothers me for sure, but I wouldn't say I shoot worse.

[MinnMooney]

All of the references to "those are for girls" just shows they think that they have lots of testosterone and are more manly than the rest in their group. Sounds a lot like bar-talk, sports-talk or any-talk where 18-25 year-olds congregate. Male animals have to show that they're better than other male animals in order to get laid :eek:(excuse me, procreate :D ).

I'm double (closer to triple) that age so my testosterone is only so-so. IOWs, I really don't give a cr_p if girls notice me or not. They are just being boys............ & boys are generally obnoxious.

[General Geoff]

Can't say I have this problem, since I shoot at a private range whose demographic is mostly older folks. My immediate circle of friends is between 23 and 26, and we're some of the safest, most respectful people at the range when there are others there. We strive to maintain that level of safety and courtesy. Even when we're there by ourselves, we still maintain the highest degree of safety, though we tend to joke around a bit more and satirically mess with each other.

[Tilos]

It's more about an image than being a shooter and when they show up in mass the gang mentality takes over.

Not really gun snobs or possers, just somewhere in between, closer to the posser end of the spectrum.

I move as far away as possible and use "bad light" as a reason if asked.
Try to find/join a club/range that holds some type of action pistol matches as they usually have seperate "pits" for multiple stages tha can be "owned" by members when no matches are scheduled.
No hot/cold line stuff, shooting alone, the best way to shoot...for me.

And put a woman in an all men enviroment and the stupid stuff can be shocking:barf:

It's the same in most hobbies or sports.

[ATBackPackin]

I see it happen at public ranges and it can be annoying. Just remember what you are there for; fun, training, or just spending some quality time with the wife and ignore them the best you can while keeping an eye to make sure they are not doing anything unsafe. That's the best advise I can give.

Shawn

It's also good for a laugh when you look at their shooting groups.

[c919]

Can't say I have this problem, since I shoot at a private range whose demographic is mostly older folks. My immediate circle of friends is between 23 and 26, and we're some of the safest, most respectful people at the range when there are others there. We strive to maintain that level of safety and courtesy. Even when we're there by ourselves, we still maintain the highest degree of safety, though we tend to joke around a bit more and satirically mess with each other.

Yeah, you pretty much just described me and my shooting buddies. That's what I'm used too, and I guess I just expect that from others.

And put a woman in an all men enviroment and the stupid stuff can be shocking

Yeah, it does seem to be amplified when my wife and other ladies are there. She's young, cute and often outshoots half the guys there. I guess that might bring it out worse.

[matrem]

I'd suggest, just keep being yourself, and not worry about how "they" make "you" look. Age isn't important to most of the folks I shoot with, and besides, hopefully a few of those twenty somethings you're referring to will eventually "see the real picture".
As far as the older fellow that lumped you into the "typical novice" group, wouldn't worry about him either, in fact, there are a whole lot of folks my age & older (40-70 somethings) that don't seem to "get it" either.

[c919]

I'd suggest, just keep being yourself, and not worry about how "they" make "you" look

Oh that's not the stuff that bothers me the most. It's the fact that ANY gun owner has the potential to represent ALL gun owners. I'm not too worried what others think about me personally. It bugs me, but I'm more worried about the fact that these guys represent all of US to the non-gun folks that they know.

I could care less how some old grump at the public range wants to pigeon-hole me, but I very much care how we as gun owners are represented. So if these guys even make guns owners dislike other gun owners, imagine how they make non-gun owners feel.

[Old Shooter]

Give them 10 or 20 years and they'll grow up. It's just a bunch of young kids pounding the ground and in a little while they will mature and hopefully become solid, gun owning supporters of the RKBA.

How many members here have handed a novice shooter a 12 gauge loaded with slugs and said "go ahead and shoot it, it won't kick a bit"? More than one or two I'd wager. Best thing to do now is to just ignore them, chances are they are harmless. IF it really bothers you I'd just wait outside until they are done or come back another time.

At least they are at a range practicing and thats a good thing.

When I run into that at the range I just grin and listen to the young pups, reminds me of a day...

[fireman 9731]

I took a group of my buddies to the range once.

ONCE.

Individually they are fine, but get a half dozen guys together that know just enough about firearms to get them into trouble and put them together at the range and it gets bad.

They somehow feed off of each other and nothing good comes from it.

I know exactly what you mean though, and it looks awful on the gun community.

[GJW1911]

When shooting I sometimes see the same types, while very annoying I try to say away from them. Most of that demographic I have seen shooting, they are dangerous to others around them.

I also, like you mentioned see the other side of that. When I am out shooting an ak, gsg, or desert eagle, I get sneers and condescending comments form the older shooters
(I'm only 31) on the line taunting me about the firearms I decided to shoot on that day.

Or the guy in the suit and tie who is shooting a 3k dollars 1911, right beside you who will blatantly ignore you.

My point is there is a lot of different types at the range, and you just have to live and let live. (as best you can)

[General Geoff]

Or the guy in the suit and tie who is shooting a 3k dollars 1911, right beside you who will blatantly ignore you.

We often parody that image, by dressing up in three piece suits and fedoras to throw some lead down range. Weirds other people out sometimes. :)

[oldfool]

you are right.. it is really not an age group thing

it is some folks with far too little experience, and far too little knowledge of firearms, and too much attitude (not exclusive to any age group, though I confess I do think gender specific)

at our semi-private range, it is rare, an exception, but it happens, it happens everywhere

only "once" (though 3 weeks in a row) in the last couple of years
a couple of middle aged guys with toys
real nice expensive toys, fine firearms, obviously "brand new", with more ammo & accessories than I have ever seen on our range
(and it's not like we never get to see good stuff at our range, the local SWAT guys, etc., shoot there too.. and we own some "nice" ourselves)
worse yet, sticking cartridges into magazines backwards, trying to stick 40 mags into 9mm pistols

felt bad for the one younger fellow they had with them, trying to keep them from hurting themselves, but that's on him, not us, because they showed up together three times, and he was there with 'em all three times, family maybe

me and my best shootin' buddy (son-in-law) we just gave each other "the look" packed our kit quietly, and left.. (go shoot together tomorrow)

those folks (and maybe those you described) are going to hurt somebody, if not themselves.. our fools never swept anybody or any such, or (trust me on this much) something would have got real plainly said

some you can help, and should
some you just need to walk away from
that lady you are with deserves more than they do

but never was any thing about it to do with age
everything to do with attitude
guy named Sonier here, 19 years old, thinks some things about some calibers I do not 100% share
but I would be happy to share a range with him any place, any day, me four great-grand-children

there are no young fools
there are no old fools (but one)
there are only fools

they come and go, some best left to go on their own

[matrem]

these guys represent all of US to the non-gun folks that they know.
Unfortunately, that is true. One positive in their behavior is, most folks won't take them seriously, antis included.

[KodiakBeer]

I stopped shooting at our local public range some years ago just because of this issue and related problems arising from it.

Not only was it young guys acting as described above, but then you'd also have older busybodies interfering with them - trying to "teach" them in a heavy-handed way that was borderline insulting and totally unhelpful. I now shoot alone in a nice safe place with a dirt backstop on public land.

New shooters need mentors. If they don't have a mentor, they seek out people on their own skill level (almost none) and ingrain each others bad habits and poor technique. They shoot sombrero-sized groups with their plastic fantastic as fast as they can pull the trigger and go home happy.

It's a shame because it takes very little time to learn the basic stances and techniques that will allow one to become a competent shooter.

[killchain]

It's the Xbox Live mentality.

They talk crap to each other in Call of Duty so they can do it here.

I'm not one of them.

Of course, that's not to say some older guys haven't driven me batty either. I shoot at a private range, and they do postal pistol matches. One day as I'm doing my thing, one of the older guys shows up and sets up the cd player for the range commands. So I start hearing "READY ON THE LEFT? READY ON THE RIGHT? THE LINE IS READY" over and over again... and of course, he's got it cranked up.

EDIT= That day was not a postal match. He was just practicing, alone.

I just packed up and left.

[CraigC]

I'm 35yrs old and gave up on 99% of the human race but especially my own generation years ago. I'm probably too young to be this cynical but here we are.

[Mike OTDP]

False machismo and ignorance know no age.

The best counter is to head for the longer ranges. No duffer will even try to shoot a pistol at 50 yards.

[Phydeaux642]

I don't mind the misinformation they spew amongst themselves because it is generally entertaining listening to them. They wouldn't listen to the truth if you told them, so, why risk setting them off by trying to set them straight. The reason I don't like to be at the range with these types of people in a group is because they are generally a lot less safe than the other folks that are there.

I do like to go in to gun shops and listen to all of the amazing information that gets passed around, though. I was in a shop yesterday and a fellow asked the counter guy how long it took for a NICS check. The counter guy told him it was normally 5-10 minutes unless there was a hold and then that could take as long as three days. Another guy piped up and said that was true unless he was buying and "assault" rifle. He said that check took a few days. The counter guy told him that all checks took the same amount of time and that the type of gun that was listed was either long gun or hand gun with no choice of "assault" rifle. The guy said that that wasn't right unless they had changed things.:rolleyes: I wanted to tell him that the store didn't sell "assault" rifles, but I knew he wouldn't believe that.

[KodiakBeer]

They wouldn't listen to the truth if you told them, so, why risk setting them off by trying to set them straight.

I suspect in 90% of cases, if these people were alone you could open a friendly discussion and actually teach them something. It's the group mentality that shuts down rational input.

The most BS comes from the worst shooters and they tend to group up and reinforce each other.

[jon86]

I have some friends... or better... acquaintences who act exactly like what you describe. I don't go to the range with them anymore.

[Mac's Precision]

I don't shoot at the public range very often. There are too many people and I am there for the purpose of test firing most the time.

I was there some years back to test fire some loads in a Remington VSF .223. There was a fellow there in his late 20's shooting a Browning in .338 Win Mag. I was in the process of opening my rifle case and getting things ready to punch some holes at 100 yards. While I quietly went about my business he proceeded to fire a shot about every 5 seconds or so. He would let one fly ...rattle the rafters....and then cuss a blue streak. Bolt up another...and let her rip...more deafening boom...more cussing. I set my rifle on the bench...and looked over at his target. He had a group that was give or take "minute of trash can lid". I watched a few more shots go down range...and I decided to see if the fellow might like some help. I wandered over and politely asked if I might offer a bit of help. He had a pile of empties on the bench and several boxes of Federal factory stuff beside him. He declined my offer and went about his business.

I watched a bit longer to figure out the problem. He failed to properly shoulder the rifle...and was snatching the trigger something terrible...no doubt from flinch and anticipated blistering recoil. I sat down and began to shoot. He stopped shooting. I repeatedly put shot after shot in a 5/8" group at 100 yards. He collected his stuff and left. I moved my rifle over and looked at his group. I counted the holes. 68 of them...covering a target that was about 18" square. There was NO group but rather a pattern. He should have been doing much better as he had all high grade materials ....Browning A bolt...Leupold 4-12...and Federal factory ammo....shooting from sand bags. I would have expected an inch to two inches from that combination. Something was a miss for sure....and I'll never know if it was the gun...the scope mount...the shooter....the ammo....whatever....won't know.

The real issue was probably the shooter. He was a member of the hat on backwards...saggy pants....smart ass t-shirt crowd. I did gather from conversation that he and his brothers were going to Alaska to shoot moose...and he was there to get sighted in. Oh my...well...I do hope that he didn't get killed.

I generally do try to help if I can...regardless of how goofey the shooter seems. I won't push...but will offer. If I get turned down....well that is fine too. Left to my own...I shoot....off by myself....quitely .....putting one shot down range after another.... It normally takes me most of an hour...to arrive ...shoot 20...and pack up. I have to admit...I haven't ever seen anyone practice with a 338....while shooting that fast. After that many shots....that fellow must have had a helluva bruise on his shoulder.

Cheers
Mac.

[owen]

Of course, that's not to say some older guys haven't driven me batty either. I shoot at a private range, and they do postal pistol matches. One day as I'm doing my thing, one of the older guys shows up and sets up the cd player for the range commands. So I start hearing "READY ON THE LEFT? READY ON THE RIGHT? THE LINE IS READY" over and over again... and of course, he's got it cranked up.


So your on a shooting range, with you know, guns going off, and that bothered you?

[c919]

I suspect in 90% of cases, if these people were alone you could open a friendly discussion and actually teach them something. It's the group mentality that shuts down rational input.

The most BS comes from the worst shooters and they tend to group up and reinforce each other.

Yup. Too true. I would be willing to wager that if one of these guys had been by themselves, we could have gotten along just fine. I'd also be willing to bet that some of the guys who I've had a great time with in the past would drive me up the wall with a group of their buddies.

[Justin Holder]

I'm 35yrs old and gave up on 99% of the human race but especially my own generation years ago. I'm probably too young to be this cynical but here we are.

I'm only 22 but I feel the same way brother.

[LRS_Ranger]

Haha, I carry an SP 101 every day. Load up some hot loads in an indoor range and that thing gets the respect of everyone around...

[TNboy]

I am 27 and constantly embarrassed by my generation. And those a few years younger than me seem worse. It makes it eaiser for me to get ahead in life though, it's amazing what pulling your pants up and using some manners will get you.

[jonmerritt]

I am 45, and stay far away from the outwardly ignorant. If they show up at the the range after I am allready there, and ask why I am leaving. I tell them straight up " You are dangerous with firearms, and I am not going to become an innocent victim, goodbye".

[c919]

I am 27 and constantly embarrassed by my generation. And those a few years younger than me seem worse. It makes it eaiser for me to get ahead in life though, it's amazing what pulling your pants up and using some manners will get you.

Isn't that the truth. It's funny how much praise you get these days for being a hard working twenty-something. Everybody just expects hangovers and excuses, and when you deliver otherwise they are taken aback. Off topic, but I agree.

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

I stopped shooting at our local public range some years ago just because of this issue and related problems arising from it.

I own a little farm 2 counties over (67 acres). I've got a perfect place to shoot, and
I STILL go to local "public" ranges more than I shoot on the farm.

The downside to shooting in private is you miss out on meeting some really nice folks.

Two friends that I shoot with on occasion (and go to gun shows with and trade with and hunt with) are guys I met at shooting ranges. Even the obnoxious "amateurs" might be a good friend, especially with just a nudge in guidance.

However inexperienced or ignorant they may be, they'll invariably have something valuable you can learn from them. For example, they may have a gun you've been dying to shoot, or they may be a little ignorant on rifles, but know everything worth knowing about waterfowl hunting. You never know.

As far as stereotypes, I gave up on those long ago where shooters are concerned.

My 16 year-old nephew is a hard-core "Fudd." If it doesn't have pretty wood and blued steel, he's just not interested.

The last time my cousin and I hit the local range there was a 50-something guy working on an FAL. He was trying different handloads, making notes, adjusting his sights, and dialing in the gas system. He was tuning the open sights up for 100 yards, and his shooting was tight (2-3 inch groups). He clearly knew his way around that FAL, and was as focused on tweaking it as I've ever seen anyone focus on a target rifle.

I expect most shooters wouldn't judge you on anything but your own behavior and attitude.

KR

[paintballdude902]

theres alot of guys my age i wont shoot with. (let say 16-25) i have a close groups of friends in the age group , some younger than me(20) and some older. but alot of them are crazy they want to do mag dumps when we are doing slow fire for groups or them with just start to walk down range.

now we have our ways of safely having fun while goofing around. when we shoot cans ill sneak one in thats full that way someone gets a surprise when they shoot it. or when we are shooting out .22's someone will grab an m44 and make us all poop ourselves from the unexpected boom. my favorite was the time i filled a can with tannerite and waited for a friend to shoot it.

but everything we do is in a safe way with people we all trust. all guns stay unloaded till pointed at a target and down range.

[LeontheProfessional]

At my range it is usually a group of guys, in their early, that come in with Hi-Points, Taurus's, and of course the Tec-9 that all of them are ewing and awing over. They put the target, A full size terrorist silhouette, at half range about 6 yards and proceeded to spray bullets over the entire 2'x4' target. They rant and rave about how bad-A their guns are and don't see the fact that they jam once a magazine as any bit of a problem.

[Oyeboten]

That's when it is nice to pull out the Colt 'WALKER'...

And...say..."stand back boys.."


And then let 'er rip...


Lol...



Seriously though, the Range I shoot at, there is never anyone near by at all...

So, I never run into any of that stuff.

[walksbyhimself]

It's not limited to us young guys (I'm 22), although it does seem to be more prevalent among our peers than the more... shall we say "seasoned" populace? (appropriate smiley)

For example, there's an older guy at my local range who spends enormous sums on custom 1911's, talks them up constantly, and just as constantly and vocally puts down Glocks and other non-1911's. The kicker? He sucks. His groups are terrible and he has quite a few malfunctions because he doesn't know how to run the gun.

[dmancornell]

Older folks can also be obnoxious. Recently I witnessed a couple of mid-life crisis guys talking about how shooting at a range won't teach anything and real operators take the Magpul training classes (which they took multiple times). Toss in some obligatory Chris Costa worshipping.

Then they proceeded to videotape themselves choke on gas while shooting their silenced KAC SR-15 (SBR of course) and talk about showing the footage to their operator friends.

[russ69]

I see this all the time but I don't consider it much of an issue, as long as they are safe. I often find it entertaining. I will step back from the bench and make sure a shooter new to the line is being safe but usually I'll just go back to shooting. I can easily tune out the distraction, it's actually good practice, learning how to ignore distractions while shooting. If I had a nickel for every bonehead comment I heard at the range.......well I'd have a lot of nickels.

Thanx, Russ

[Hatterasguy]

I call my friend a girl all the time when he complains about the bolt on my mosin or the recoil of one of my bolt guns. I was like if you didn't have such little girl hands you could work the bolt.:D

He likes 5.56's and I constantly bust his balls about stepping up to a "manly caliber":D;) Whenever we are shooting I always offer to let him shoot a more manly caliber.

But yes those types annoy me, and I suspect other club members as well since they don't seem to be voted in.:cool:

[FLAvalanche]

You want to know why younger people act like idiots at the range?

Because the older generation doesn't want to teach anything anymore. If half the amount of people who complain about how the younger generation act would shut up and actually get off their butts and teach the younger generation marksmanship, weapons maintenance, range safety, etc. there wouldn't be a problem.

Who taught the older generation to shoot? Their older generation. Seems like that got lost in translation.

[Hanzo581]

As long as they are being safe I really don't care what others are saying/doing at the range. Remember some people go to the range just to have fun.

[jcwit]

You want to know why younger people act like idiots at the range?

Because the older generation doesn't want to teach anything anymore. If half the amount of people who complain about how the younger generation act would shut up and actually get off their butts and teach the younger generation marksmanship, weapons maintenance, range safety, etc. there wouldn't be a problem.

Who taught the older generation to shoot? Their older generation. Seems like that got lost in translation.



Now tell us how to get the younger guys to listen to us older guys, instead of acting like they know it all allready.

[seldomseensmith]

Try hanging out with some old timers!

"Oh man, those home defense rounds have gone bad. See how the bullet isn't as shiny as mine. I'd throw those out." - HILARIOUS

[LeontheProfessional]

Now tell us how to get the younger guys to listen to us older guys, instead of acting like they know it all allready.
I was waiting for that. I am 24 and have to agree with you. It seems like the younger generation already knows everything and you can't teach them anything anymore. There is no respect for elders these days. I have a guy that I work with that is the same age as me and he calls everybody man regardless of age. I am always getting on him for it "If he has a few years on you call him sir not man." My father is a Marine Colonel and he would kill me if I called an older gentlemen man.

It probably would not hurt to try to give the younger generation some advice because there still are some respectful youth out there. I don't blame you for not wanting to though.

[Maia007]

Why do you suppose that is?

[c919]

"Oh man, those home defense rounds have gone bad. See how the bullet isn't as shiny as mine. I'd throw those out." - HILARIOUS

Yeah, I had to let out a serious chuckle when the guy dropped that little bit of knowledge. If I tossed my Gold Dots every time they oxidized, I'd go broke.

[FLAvalanche]

Now tell us how to get the younger guys to listen to us older guys, instead of acting like they know it all allready.
Thank you for proving my point...

[JTHunter]

If, as one poster said, they were "unloading their mags as fast as they could", I would have to wonder about their attitudes towards safety. That much carrying-on can lead to carelessness.

[killchain]

So your on a shooting range, with you know, guns going off, and that bothered you?

Okay, let me lay this completely out because I must have written my post poorly.

In a postal match, this particular range I use uses a CD player boom box to play the commands for the shooters.

The scene is this: I am alone at the range, zeroing a rifle. In enters another patron with his entire competition case, along with race gun. He sets up this boom box, cranks it up loud enough for his double ear protection, and begins doing a mock one-man postal match.

There is two things wrong here.

One, it's completely throwing me off.

Two, there is a specified night and time for this kind of practice, and guess what? It's not this night.

So, we have an underground pistol range with two men in it, and one has an obscenely loud boom box screaming "IS THE LINE READY? THE LINE IS READY... etc."

So to recap, no... hearing gunshots doesn't "bother me." Rude patrons who don't observe the rules and blare the training boom box when other shooters are trying to concentrate "bothers me."

[russ69]

I'd jump in and practice with him.......but I can see how that would be irritating. Think of it as stress fire practice?

Thanx, Russ

[killchain]

I'd jump in and practice with him.......but I can see how that would be irritating. Think of it as stress fire practice?

Thanx, Russ

I suppose I could have.

Whatever, it's over now. Just wish people would be more polite about stuff like that, is all.

Moving on. Kind of off topic, but has anyone else noticed that the tacticool crowd (yes, I'm one of them) has started using the term "tier 1" for weapons of choice?

You know, because of the tier 1 weapons in Call of Duty 4/2 Modern Warfare Reloaded: The Ambigiously Middle Eastern Conflict Simulator?

[Hatterasguy]

No I'm not a member of the tacticool crowd, I'm so un tacticool I remove rail's from my guns. My idea of "tacticool" is putting the original cleaning kit back in the butt stock of my FN49.:D

I'll have to ask my friends who shoot AR's with tacticool stuff stuck on them if that term is cool.:D;)

[Zack]

They went on like this for about an hour saying things like:

"Oh man, those home defense rounds have gone bad. See how the bullet isn't as shiny as mine. I'd throw those out."

"The 38 special is the dumbest round ever. It's for girls."

"All 1911's have that scratch. It's from cleaning."

"I sleep with a 12ga in my room because buckshot won't penetrate my apartment walls."

"The ACR is way better than the SCAR, you should know that, you play *some video game*"

"My cousin is a Ranger and he says....."

they were just emptying mag after mag as fast as they could making no attempts at accuracy

Probly trying to see how fast they could shoot zombies. No I never seen these type of people... yet. But I did see some guy trying be cool with his shotgin with some 28inch barrel. He loads the magazine tube up then, points it MY WAY.......... Then puts one in the chamber and loads another. Woah scared me, finger was off trigger but still.

[ny32182]

There is plenty of stupid to go around in all age groups. You can't blame it on age after about 25 or so.

[Mags]

I'm 35yrs old and gave up on 99% of the human race but especially my own generation years ago. I'm probably too young to be this cynical but here we are. Plus a million to this and I am only 26!

[easyg]

There is no respect for elders these days. I have a guy that I work with that is the same age as me and he calls everybody man regardless of age. I am always getting on him for it "If he has a few years on you call him sir not man." My father is a Marine Colonel and he would kill me if I called an older gentlemen man.
Using the term "sir" in and of itself does not necessarily convey respect.

I spent 6 years in the Army and I can assure you that one can use the term "sir" and still be disrespectful and even show contempt or hatred or pity.

And the use of the term "man" is not necessarily disrespectful either.
it all depends upon how the terms are used.


Personally, I hardly ever call anyone "sir", even if they are older than myself.
Age alone does not make one my superior or earn my respect.

In case you're wondering, I'm 43 years old.

[Aren't we all]

All my friends berate me for not having scopes and/or modern semiautomatic rifles, my one semiauto is 103years old... We mostly plink in a large sandpit/dump. Yesterday one of my friends texted me and said they had shot a propane tank which was a little fuller than estimated. no injuries luckly..


marsh

[ol' scratch]

I have had sort of the opposite. At my range, we had a bunch of 'chuckle heads' breaking the rules. Some of the older members started seeking out the younger guys and asking us if they could see membership cards. None of them were ever rude, but just felt like my age bracket was getting a bad rep. That all changed when I got a Garand and started shooting that. A few people have commented on the rifle and it seems to have given me a little 'creditbility' as a younger shooter. I didn't buy the rifle to impress, it was just a pleasant side effect. Lots of milsurp collectors at the range. On a few occasions, I have had members approach me and ask to see my rifle. One I found out is the M1 Garand/M1A guru of this area. I have learned a LOT from him about all sorts of firearms INCLUDING AR-15's. I have gained a reputation as being 'one of the good ones.' :cool:

[ol' scratch]

All my friends berate me for not having scopes and/or modern semiautomatic rifles, my one semiauto is 103years old... We mostly plink in a large sandpit/dump. Yesterday one of my friends texted me and said they had shot a propane tank which was a little fuller than estimated. no injuries luckly..

marsh

:what::uhoh::confused::eek::banghead:

[TylerPearce]

I am even younger than that, as I am only 18, and although I don't shoot at a formal range, there is a free area to shoot where several people around here go. When I go there, I am very polite to the older shooters, and occasionally if I get to know somebody enough, i even let them shoot my firearms. I do play video games, but that in no way gives me any information about guns. I picked up and fired my first rifle, shotgun, and pistol, long before I ever played video games. If i ever do any rapid firing, which is rare (it gets expensive), I do it when nobody is there. I have actually had several people comment positively on my weapons, even the AK and AR, which surprised me, because the group of guys that I hunt with think they are "pointless" or "crap" just because they aren't the most "traditional" firearms.

[KodiakBeer]

Don't ever apologize for your guns to some old codger (I can say that, being a borderline old codger myself!). Some guns are for business and some guns are for fun. If some older gent doesn't see the fun of blowing up cantaloupes with an AK, then it's his loss.

[ChCx2744]

This is why I wear ear plugs AND muffs. You'd be surprised at how well ignoring people works in your favor. Try smiling while doing it :)

[TH3180]

This is an intresting thread. I just read the whole thing start to finish. I am 30 yearsold and have been shooting for four months. I have three .22lr pistols and I just got a 9mm(that I haven't shot yet). I shoot at an indoor public range. The second time I went there I had three guys that couldn't hit a bus at 20 feet start talking about how .22s are not shot by real men and so on, after they saw me take a .22 out of my range bag. Normally I just let stuff roll off my back and could careless. But after about a half an hour of these guys go on and on I decided I just didn't want to deal with it that day and I packed up my stuff. While I was walking out the lady behind the counter asked me why I was leaving so soon and asked if I was having a problem with my firearm because she could help me out if I was. I told her I wasn't in the mood to deal with the guys in there so I was going home. Now she knows I am a new shooter because I tell them everytime I go in that I am new so please jump all over me if I am being unsafe. She told me to take a seat on the couch and hang out for a bit she would take care of it. I told her not to worry about I don't want them to loss customers over my thin skin. She said she doesn't want customers like that at her range. (Come to find out it is her range she owns the joint). Anyway she walks in there and is talking back forth with these guys, comes back out and gets a few targets, back in she goes and puts a target at about 30 feet. One of the guys empties his clip into it, she does the same for the other guys in the group. When they are done she pulls her sidearm and empties a clip into a target. They all compare targets and the guys pack there stuff and leave. She comes and says that was fun happy shooting. I asked her what that was all about. She tells me they want there range to be family friendly and guys like that aren't welcome. Instead of kicking them out. She tells them that if they can out shoot her at 35 feet they can each have a free range pass for one time. If she wins they leave for good. A lot of LE shoot at this range and almost as many females as males. It is great place to shoot and I have always felt safe. I have made a few friends there funny thing all of them could be my grandpa they are so much older than me.
I'm not saying complain to the people that run the range everytime someone is a jerk. Beating around the bush can be the best tactic sometimes. Ask the RO when your leaving if the group are regulars, find out if they shoot at a regular time so you can stay away. If the RO asks why you want to know (almost for sure they will) just say I don't like to shoot around jerks so I was hoping to see when I shouldn't come to the range.

[Ironman]

I feel ya brother.

I'm 26 y/o and constantly reminded that im part of an inmature age group. I too, like others here, keep my pants at the correct height and wear my hat the correct way. I'm a professional Firefighter, so I try to act my age and set an example when Im out in public. I treat others with the respect they deserve. Yet I still get profiled at the range by gentlemen older than I and persons my own age.

I shot at the range this last saturday...I was unpacking my gear on the 21' pistol line and set my Glock19 on the bench 1st...not even two seconds goes by and a gentleman older than I says something like "You young guys love those glocks, ever shoot a nice pistol like this HK?" He had a fullsize HK USP45 stainless...he must have just bought it as he was VERY proud. Well, haha, I said "yup sure have, something like this?" And I unpacked my suppressed HK's. The look on his face was priceless.

You can't judge a book by its cover, you have to read it. And this couldnt be more true than observing someone at the range. I've been in your situation, where Billy Bob and his meth head cousin show up, unload, and proceed to bump fire a SKS in the lane next to you all the while talking up themselves in all thier "badassnes"

So yes, I agree that the problem is mostly the younger crowd, but the gents dont get a pass either. Just shake your head and move to a lane FAR away.lol

[Hangingrock]

When I go to the range I’m not bothered by anyone. It could be what I wear a rather worn tiger stripe utility jacket, 3rd Marine Div hat, very dark sun glasses, and mutter to myself the whole time I’m there.:what:;)

[TylerPearce]

HAHA^^

[JTHunter]

TH3180 - that was one smart lady, and a good story!

[KodiakBeer]

I have three .22lr pistols and I just got a 9mm(that I haven't shot yet). I shoot at an indoor public range. The second time I went there I had three guys that couldn't hit a bus at 20 feet start talking about how .22s are not shot by real men and so on, after they saw me take a .22 out of my range bag.

There's nothing like a .22 to tune your shooting skills. One thing bad shooters all have in common is that they don't shoot .22's.

[Shadow 7D]

Ok, so I've been that guy, took by brother out to the local range and got ran off the intermediate (shared pistol and rifle, cause he wanted to shoot the siaga 12 and the pistols) I don't generally get much from older shooters because this range is outside a military base, and I guess still look the part, but yeah, with him it was more about catching up and talking and having fun, little groups were second place. His wife is Canadian, and she likes guns well enough for 'useful' stuff like hunting. He doesn't get to shoot much, and never has been into it as much as me.

I got ran off for my pistol target being too close (yeah, I wasn't paying attention, thought it was a 7 min when it was a 15 yard minimum range) because I was trying to find where the hell my 'excellent' Century Arms Tokarev was hitting, turns out the barrel is shot, was rusted out and I didn't notice it before we went out.

Still, I do wonder sometimes when I see guys come out with super'duper fly guy stuff. Most of the military guys either have 'toys' that they put the 'neat' stuff on, or they set their weapons similar to what they are issued, you can tell.

[Hatterasguy]

I do get a kick out of the guys who set up targets at...6 yards and proced to paint some horrible groups on them with a variety of guns.:D

[pacerdude]

As a younger shooter myself (only 21) I understand how you feel when you go to the range, I always try to be respectful to my elders, saying sir and ma'am to everyone. But I do feel that we sometimes are looked down upon at the range by some of the older crowd, but generally when my friend and I go to the range we are just ignored, and as such keep to ourselves, without being loud or obnoxious.

I also have had to almost entirely teach myself about firearms as my father had no interest in them, and we never had guns around the house.

However, I understand that our generation can be rude and stubborn at times.

[jnyork]

I am almost 70, and I shoot with a group of about 30 other geezers my age or so. Not one of us looks down on anyone because of their age group, or necessarily how you are dressed, although if the bill of the cap is in front and the crotch of the pants is where it is supposed to be it helps a little. :rolleyes:

If you come out to the range and know what you are doing and play safe, you are welcome regardless of who you are. If you insist on being all stupid, then expect to get run off in short order.

[SaMx]

I ran into a group of guys at the range today almost exactly like the OP described.
they were doing things like dumping mags at water bottles 10 yards away (and missing), using shooting positions like "standing on top of the bench," and talking about how their friend got in trouble for "filing down they firing pin of his semi-auto AR-15 so it would shoot full auto instead of 3 round burst"

The only difference is they were all 35-40 years old.

[benEzra]

Now tell us how to get the younger guys to listen to us older guys, instead of acting like they know it all allready.
I don't know. How did the older guys who taught your generation manage it? :)

Older people complaining that younger people think they know everything goes back to ancient Roman times, and probably well before that. My 70-year-old dad has plenty of stories of his elders shaking their heads about his generation...

Moving on. Kind of off topic, but has anyone else noticed that the tacticool crowd (yes, I'm one of them) has started using the term "tier 1" for weapons of choice?

You know, because of the tier 1 weapons in Call of Duty 4/2 Modern Warfare Reloaded: The Ambigiously Middle Eastern Conflict Simulator?
The use of the term "Tier 1", "Tier 2," etc. to refer to the quality levels in the AR market doesn't come from Call of Duty 4; it predates the game by a long shot, and AFAIK comes primarily from serious AR shooters.

Tier 1 Manufacturers (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1479) (M4carbine.net thread, 2006)

COD4 wasn't released until late 2007, AFAIK. "Tier 1" is usually used as a shorthand way to distinguish AR's on the left side of The Chart (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html) from those from the center and right side.

More "Tier 1" threads:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24397
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5419
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47045

And the many BTDT folks over there certainly didn't get their gun knowledge from COD4...

[aka108]

We have a nice public range but I will not go there on weekends. Too crowded and some look like the worst of Walmart customers. The range gets cleaned up and new target stands every Monday morning so a few of us old coots go every Tuesday and have the range basically to ourselves (4 or 5 shooters) all morning. If you go out Sunday PM the target stands have been reduced to mulch. I have some stands that I used for about 10 years and never ruined one. The public can reduce something nice to rubble in short time expecially when they think it's all for free.

[JEB]

im in that age group too (21 yrs old). i really wish that i had a range that i could go to because i have no friends that actually know anything about firearms and dont know anyone i would actually care to shoot with for safety reasons. i live out in the country and while it is nice to have a private range that never closes, (my back yard) i do wish that i could find a place to go shoot at a range and hopefully find some people that know what they are doing.

as far as the OP: i have noticed some of the age group bias. i spend a lot of time on the internet trying to learn what i can about various firearms, shooting posture, ballistics, etc. i consider myself a fairly knowledgeable person when it comes to guns but whenever i get into a firearms discussion i try to keep an open mind because i know that other people may very well know more than me, but i still run into people who tend to look down on me and not take me seriously because they asume i got all my info from video games. the frustrating part is that while i would almost expect this from some of the older shooters i run into but some times i get people my age that just laugh when i tell them something useful and ask "what game did you get that from?" i dont even LIKE video games!!! why shoot on t.v. when you can shoot for real?

[MikePGS]

I fall within the age group you mentioned (I'm 29) but I would go one further. I don't think this type of mentality is exclusive to the age group. There are a good number of people of all ages who will say anything simply for the pleasurable sensation they get from air passing over their vocal chords. To see this effect in action simply go to any gunstore anywhere and hang around for a couple of hours.

[whalerman]

I don't see this as an age thing either. But if you hear an idiot, or group of same at a range, chances are they weren't taught to shoot by their fathers. Or taught much of anything by their fathers. If a father was in the picture at an early age, then you rarely see disrepectful young, or old men. But then again that's the main problem with the world as I see it.

[jeepmor]

In response to OP thread one, welcome to the world, get used to it. I suggest you find THR members to shoot with, always been great chaps in my experience. Safe, honest, trigger happy examples of what you're looking for.

[LeontheProfessional]

JEB,

I am really surprised to hear that you live in the country in IA and have no friends that shoot. The only thing I know about IA is from the hunting videos that I watch, but it seems like everyone there hunts or at least should by the size of the deer that yall have.

I hear you about the video games. That is the exact same thing I say to people when they start talking about some cool gun in a video game "they are a lot more fun to shoot in real life". I have actually used several friend's interests in video games to get them out shooting. They are usually surprised how hard it is to hit what they are aiming at.