[tango3065]

Ihey guys help a uneducated future Ak-47 buyer out, my dealer has a couple with wood stocks dont have a clue which ones i'm going to look at them this week though, what the ones thats good and which ones do I want to stay away from some say sar1 (I think thats right) are bad so any help on getting a good one would be great. Also another ? in a shtf seniero be it depression, civil war, basic survival for your family in the wilderness, whater the reason would you guys prefier a auto rifle or a nice 870 short barrel shotgun with lots of buck and slugs?

[MAKOwner]

I would feel better with a semi auto rifle like an AK or AR, but I'm sure a shotgun is plenty versatile, many people would go with that...

Right now the only AKs to really avoid are Hesse made AKs, and that may be overreaction too. I'm sure you could pick a decent one... SAR1s aren't the best AK fit and finish wise, but they are AK rugged and work fine. This is most likely what your shop has if they're new-ish AKs. Just get one that looks straight as far as the front sight and gas block are concerned (IE eyeball them to see if they appear canted to one side or not on the barrel). Even if they are canted it won't cause functioning problems unless you get a real lemon, but it's not desireable... Quality of the wood stock's finish varies too. Too me that should be secondary, you can always refinish the stocks or replace them with aftermarket units.

I've got a SAR1 and 2, couldn't be happier with them. If the price is fair ($350ish maybe for a shop, $375 max???) and they are decent I'd jump on em...

[Kurt]

IMO, going the shotgun only route to those scenarios you mentioned will work to limit your options severely. This would be primarily in the medium ranges and everything farther.

There’s nothing really wrong with the SAR-1’s. Just find one with a properly aligned gas block and front sight block and don’t look back. They are a lot of gun for the money, and take standard AK mags.

The SAR-1 will give you most everything you could ask for within the effective range of its cartridge (think 30-30 levels). While not perfect, its reliability across the board is unquestioned. It’s short and maneuvers very quickly. And it’s a .30 caliber.

[ny32182]

In my experience, AK's all tend to function fine, unless you've got an absolute lemon.

That said, with the cheaper AKs, quality is a more hit or miss sort of thing. I've handled and fired several SAR-1s. Accuracy is not good, sights are not good, furniture on 2 of them felt like it was about to fall off, etc. But they all functioned fine. Worth $350? I would say yes, if you get a good one.

I've got a friend that has a SAM7, way better than a SAR-1 in terms of quality. I've got a VEPR K on order for myself, and figured that the extra couple hundred bucks would be worth it to ensure I was getting a quality gun. Each one has its advantages and disadvantages. You tend to get what you pay for, but most any AK will probably run fine, even if it suffers in other areas.

[tango3065]

How much are the vepr ans the sam7 also are the ak's that everyone is getting new or ar they rebuilt?

[NevadaPistolero]

Nothing wrong with the SAR 1s, they are an AK and work pretty damn good. Depends on what you want to spend on one. From $350.00 on up to 2 thousand pre bans. Go with the SAR 1 and have money left over for ammo and other AK goodies.

[MAKOwner]

Accuracy is not good, sights are not good

Couldn't be further from the truth IMO. My SAR1 range tested back to back with my last MAK90 (several different occasions) outshot the MAK on average, especially when hot. I'd put my SAR1 up against one of my shooting buddy's Bulgy SLR95s any day of the weak accuracy wise. That's one of the finer AKs sold in the US and there's no discernable accuracy difference between them in my experience. The sights are also AK standard so I don't see how you can say there is anything wrong with them? Accuracy wise, until you get into something like a VEPR you're not talking about much variance in any good condition 7.62 AK currently available...

Function, accuracy, ruggedness, the SAR1 is on par with any other AK... It IS a Euro mil-spec AKM after all (with the exception of the added US parts...) And contrary to popular belief the canted front sight/gas block and ugly wood stuff did not start with, and is not limited to, the Romanian AKs...

And my SAR2 shoots tighter groups (albeit only slightly) than any 7.62 AK I've owned or shot...

[ReadyontheRight]

http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplus_rifles.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_AK_WASR_10_7_62x39_Rifle.html

Here's a few Romanian AK clones for sub-$300.

And here is a link to an excellent site on Romanian AKs

http://linx310.nothingbutguns.com/model.htm

[Absolut]

Right now the only AKs to really avoid are Hesse made AKs, and that may be overreaction too
avoid anything Hesse like the plague!

Atlantic firearms has a nice looking RF-109 right now for ~$400

about the SHTF situation, my AR would be my first choice

[tango3065]

I would rather have a AR but 1000.00 bucks dont agree with the wife.

[ny32182]

Couldn't be further from the truth IMO. My SAR1 range tested back to back with my last MAK90 outshot the MAK on several occasions, especially when hot. I'd put my SAR1 up against one of my shooting buddy's Bulgy SLR95s any day of the weak accuracy wise. That's one of the finer AKs sold in the US and there's no discernable accuracy difference between them in my experience. The sights are also AK standard so I don't see how you can say there is anything wrong with them? Accuracy wise, until you get into something like a VEPR you're not talking about much variance in any good condition 7.62 AK currently available...


Well yes, I think there are good SAR-1s out there. Like I said, I think getting a "good" one is more hit or miss than with something more expensive. I'd feel a lot better not buying one sight unseen. As for the sights, that is what a Kobra is for. ;) If you get your hands on a good SAR-1, its worth every bit of 350 and then some, IMO.


Function, accuracy, ruggedness, the SAR1 is on par with any other AK... It IS a Euro mil-spec AKM after all (with the exception of the added US parts...) And contrary to popular belief the canted front sight/gas block and ugly wood stuff did not start with, and is not limited to, the Romanian AKs...


Function and ruggedness, I would say yes. Accuracy? Well, not in my experience. But my experience is neither completely thorough nor definitive of course, so YMMV.

As to the prices, the SAR-1s go from 300-375. My VEPR is gonna be $580 when it gets here. SAM7s, I'm not sure about.

You can definitley get an AR for less than 1000 if that is what you want.

[Langenator]

Anyone know anything about the AMD-65s that AIM is selling? Price is $599. I'm sure the stock doesn't fold due to the AWB (which does sort of make me wonder why they used that kind), but it still looks evil . I almost want to get one just to tick off the Antis.

[j.wise]

Regarding the sights: dump the notch rear sight and add a Mojo aperture ($40.) Or, if you like red-dots and can FIND one (I'm still looking), get a Kobra.

The fit and finish of the AKs is not a major factor in reliability, it's more an option for those of us who can't stand to look at their firearms and realize that trained monkeys could have machined them better than the SAR-1. I spent the extra $$ and got a VEPR II K in 7.62X39. My first VEPR is chambered for 7.62X51 (.308 win), and I couldn't be happier with its performance.

If I wanted a lighter rifle that was closer to euro-spec, I'd get the SAM7 (that's the one by Arsenal, right?) It's a bit more (~$700), but if you're REALLY into AKs, then its a great rifle.

PS- For $650 you could pick up a nice Armalite or Olympic Arms AR-15.

[ny32182]

The SAM7 is by Arsenal. It is a milled AKM reciever. I didn't realize they cost that much.

The VEPR is built on the RPK reciever, which is folded steel that is 50% thicker than normal folded AKM recievers, and is therefore pretty heavy, but also the most accurate readily available AK on the market. It has a chrome lined barrel/chamber, and takes all normal AK mags. Mine is the VEPR K 7.62x39 w/brake. I'll probably post a range report when it gets here.

[tomkatz]

I see Sam-7's going for less than $600.00 now around here...... I picked up a new slr 101s a couple weeks ago for $439.00 plus tax........tom

[Tomac]

j.wise, check here for AK red dot sights: http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/ . I've done business w/Tantal for years and you won't find better customer service (I've used the Kobra on my AKs and like it a lot but am currently waiting to get my hands on the new PK-S01: http://www.freedomoptics.com/comersus/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=24 ).

Mastinson, it's hard to screw up an AK but it can be done. The SAR series is crude but usually demonstrates typical AK reliability *except* for Century screwups. You can experience trigger slap caused by Century's poorly fitted US-made FCG and Century welds their stainless gas piston to the bolt carrier instead of properly pinning it w/a bit of play and if it binds inside the gas tube it can cause problems. Both are easy fixes and the SAR series comes with an optics rail already attached to the receiver for ComBloc scopes/red-dot sights.

AK for SHTF? I have the 5.45x39 SAR-2 for that purpose but wouldn't turn my nose up at the 7.62x39 SAR-1 loaded w/SP ammo. The AK gives you a significant range advantage over the shotgun and you can carry more ammo for the weight. HTH...
Tomac

[tomkatz]

these guys have some good low cost ak-74 deals, and waffle mags too....tom

http://www.joeken.net/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=110&cat=GunsNet%2BDeals

[Nightcrawler]

CLICKY (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24484)

Thread contains lots of info, as well as pictures.

[000Buck]

I have a VEPR K, WASR hicap and SAR1. The WASR and SAR1 arent especially pretty, but they function flawlessly. I havent heard of any of the Romanian(WASR, SAR, etc) AKs with functioning problems.

If you want something that works that good and is eye candy too, get a VEPR. I just got one, and compared to every other AK I have ever seen, it is definitely the most "fondleable" over the long term. They run between $550-650.

One thing on the WASRs, SARs, or other lower cost AKs, try all the triggers before you buy if you have a selection. Some have decent triggers, and some have not so decent triggers. The VEPR has a great trigger.

[Captain Scarlet]

for most self defense situations, most gun fights are within 10 yards, so a
good pump action short barreled shot gun would be fine....but If I could only choose one I would take the semi auto rifle because you would use
it at the range a lot more and get more use out of it, a riot gun tends to
sit around and never gets used, thats why I sold my 870, it sat around for
15 years never getting used, rifles are more useful for plinking and defense
,plus guns that get used more mean you will be more proficient with if you ever had to use it for defense.

[RustyHammer]

Way up there on the "fun factor" scale and pretty accurate as well.

Both of my WASR & SAR-1 can hit 10" iron plates 8 for 8, single shots - slow fire - at 100 yards without much effort.

Couple that with the ability to fire 40 shots without changing the mag ....

That's good enough for me.

[Absolut]

I would rather have a AR but 1000.00 bucks dont agree with the wife.
you can get a good AR for around $750

[ny32182]

Here are bushmasters from AIM surplus for WELL less than 1K bucks.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bushmaster_Rifles.html

[Gmac]

I bought an SAR 1 (new) for $350 last summer and I'm very happy with it. Accuracy is fine for a short /medium range defensive weapon and functioning has been flawless with Wolf ammo. The dealer had two sar's and one had a canted sight so I bought the other one. As stated previously this problem isn't limited to Romanian AK's. As for long range accuracy, my Savage bolt gun in 25-06 serves admirably with the total cost of the two rifles being less than or equal to an AR. Just my.02

[Steel]

what do you think of the AK at aimsurplus.com...Romanian if memory serves.

[Langenator]

AIM has the Romanian WASR-10 and the Hungarian AMD-65...I'm definitely interested in the AMD-65, if for no other reason than it looks EVIL.

[bad_dad_brad]

The SAR-1 is a good rifle. At least mine is, one of the more recent ones. I can't remember exactly what I paid at the moment, but I know it was under $350. Just make sure the sights are not crooked. Accurate? Accurate enough for close combat. As are most AK-47s, it is very very reliable and low maintenance.

[Steel]

if for no other reason than it looks EVIL

LOL

:-)

If for not other reason that to make a liberal/soccermom/hollyweird type/socialist bleeding heart/demoncrat/democrap mad

[yzguy]

love my SAR-1...

sure it is not the most acurate rifle I own, but with a cold barrel I can preaty easily keep it in 4-5 inches at 100 yards (and pretty sure the rifle can do better than I because I can't even see a 4-5 inch object well at 100 yards) from a rest.

[ARperson]

Only have experience with the 5.45 models, but if you can find a good AK then do it.

Did have a bit of a problem with the SAR...top cover kept the bolt from slamming home. Shot fine without it, but put that baby back on and it wasn nothing more than a single shot rifle. :scrutiny: That one is the hubby's toy. He redecorated with some plastic furniture, a new trigger, and one of the Kobra sights.

My baby is a simple CUR2 (Romanian if I remember correctly) and beautiful. Haven't seen another one like her. Nice blondish woodwork and the not-as-common thumbhole stock. Of course, she has the typical trigger slap, but, like the BOING in ARs, it's something I've grown accustomed to and would probably miss if I fixed it.